Past Gen RNG Research

Alright, I'm trying to figure out the RNG for pokewalker, and I just transfered over three group C pikachus from Yellow Forest, using the gift, rather then returning from the stroll, I reset at 16:17:00 and selected the pokewalker as fast as I could.

Here are the spreads I got in the order deposited in the box:
15/4/12/19/0/8 - Gentle
10/21/6/24/1/1 - Rash
31/18/31/7/0/24 - Careful

I believe that the natures are either random or set, so it would work the same way that the wondercarded pokes work. However, I didn't find any compatible seeds with this combination.

If someone came up with a program that used the IVs from more then one poke at once, and not the nature, I would greatly appreciate it.
 
Alright, I'm trying to figure out the RNG for pokewalker, and I just transfered over three group C pikachus from Yellow Forest, using the gift, rather then returning from the stroll, I reset at 16:17:00 and selected the pokewalker as fast as I could.

Here are the spreads I got in the order deposited in the box:
15/4/12/19/0/8 - Gentle
10/21/6/24/1/1 - Rash
31/18/31/7/0/24 - Careful

I believe that the natures are either random or set, so it would work the same way that the wondercarded pokes work. However, I didn't find any compatible seeds with this combination.

If someone came up with a program that used the IVs from more then one poke at once, and not the nature, I would greatly appreciate it.
I believe, that it use the same algorithm that is used by the Pokeradar at DPPt (just a guess which can be totally wrong).

OmegaDonut found out, that as it seems, the PID is generated independent from your ID/SID also that there might lie multiple Spreads on the same PID.

I don't really get what you actually mean what that program should do, sorry.

EDIT: (Just to make sure informations don't vanish as they tend to do in All RNG Help)

gamefan87 found out that by calling Elm the Frame is advanced everytime constantly +1.
Maybe this should be taken into account as verifying your seed would advance your frame actually +10 if you use the Elm Method.
 
To try to clarify:

RNGReporter searches through the possible seeds be checking to see if it has X nature and X/X/X/X/X/X spread. I believe that it would be possible to have it search the seeds to check if it had more than one IV combination. As in, what seed has a 12/31/23/26/0/8, and 23/4/3/12/3/5 spreads.
 
To try to clarify:

RNGReporter searches through the possible seeds be checking to see if it has X nature and X/X/X/X/X/X spread. I believe that it would be possible to have it search the seeds to check if it had more than one IV combination. As in, what seed has a 12/31/23/26/0/8, and 23/4/3/12/3/5 spreads.
Although such a prog might prove to be usesul, for time being you simply could plug the IVs into Wichus PokeRNG search for one combination, save the txt somewhere, search for the other one and look for matching seeds.
Time consuming but not impossible whatsoever.
 
Although such a prog might prove to be usesul, for time being you simply could plug the IVs into Wichus PokeRNG search for one combination, save the txt somewhere, search for the other one and look for matching seeds.
Time consuming but not impossible whatsoever.
How high of a frame with Wichu's program go to?
 
I just wondered:

Before having a PKRS Pokemon and also before being in Kanto
still Elm has two messages:

1. Evolution of Pokemon which we know already
2. "It is unknown which Egg Moves young pokemon can get"(paraphrase)

So:
If we actually just trade a PKRS Pokemon over only, won't the Egg Move message suffice as a replacement for the Kanto Message?

This would make things easier.

I'd love to find out, but: no access to DeSmuMe :(
 
How do you get PHS to search seeds based on the Roamers route without knowing the seed beforehand?

I can capture a pokemon and get that seed, then put it in and the roamers match the routes listed, but I still have to know the seed already. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Also I have a Pokemon with PkRs but all Elm talks about is Kanto and Evolution.
 
How do you get PHS to search seeds based on the Roamers route without knowing the seed beforehand?

I can capture a pokemon and get that seed, then put it in and the roamers match the routes listed, but I still have to know the seed already. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Also I have a Pokemon with PkRs but all Elm talks about is Kanto and Evolution.
Well of course you do have to know the seed you want reset for so you'd plug this into seed :P
But it shows you if you are actually on it or on a different seed.

Normally you don't simply reset and try to figure out a random Initial Seed but you try to hit a seed you looked for before:P

Yeah this PKRS thing is odd, maybe mingot can explain what you gotta do since he gets this message.
Maybe you have to infect one of your pokemon with it.
 
Well of course you do have to know the seed you want reset for so you'd plug this into seed :P
But it shows you if you are actually on it or on a different seed.

Normally you don't simply reset and try to figure out a random Initial Seed but you try to hit a seed you looked for before:P

Yeah this PKRS thing is odd, maybe mingot can explain what you gotta do since he gets this message.
Maybe you have to infect one of your pokemon with it.
Yeah I realized that about the fact you are trying to hit a specific seed so you'd know it in advance. Thanks for answering my stupid question haha.
 

Nexus

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Well of course you do have to know the seed you want reset for so you'd plug this into seed :P
But it shows you if you are actually on it or on a different seed.

Normally you don't simply reset and try to figure out a random Initial Seed but you try to hit a seed you looked for before:P

Yeah this PKRS thing is odd, maybe mingot can explain what you gotta do since he gets this message.
Maybe you have to infect one of your pokemon with it.
I got the message as well it happened when I transferred over a smeargle who had it cured, nurse joy told me about it when I went to the pokemon center then elm called me as well and now when I call him I get the message too.
 
I got the message as well it happened when I transferred over a smeargle who had it cured, nurse joy told me about it then elm called me as well and now when I call him I get the message too.
I see so maybe it has to have it cured after all.
Still remains the question if the Egg Move message could serve as replacement for the Kanto Message, this would be great for RNGing Roamers and Lugia/Ho-Oh.

Edit: It IS possible to calculate the inconsistent Advancement of the Roamers and moreover Seed Verifier can output it!
I finally found out what the entry boxes are for.xD

Edit2: Ok I got the PKRS Call from Lind, but no matter how often I call him after that he won't talk about PKRS to me.
The Egg Move message cannot serve as a replacement for the Kanto Message and maybe you actually have to get the Kanto Message already in order to get the PKRS Message as well.
Alas I'm not that far in my game at the moment so I can't say anything for sure.
 
I finally got the PkRs message.

Series of events:
Someone traded me a Pokemon with pkrs.
Called Elm and he won't talk about pkrs at all.
I infected my pokemon with pkrs.
Healed up my pokemon and Nurse Joy told me my pokemon were infected with pkrs.
Called Elm and he gave me the pkrs talk first thing.

So it seems the act of contracting pkrs or healing pokemon with pkrs, triggers the Elm discussion about pkrs.

I was in Kanto at this time, though I doubt that matters.

Hope this helps.
 

mingot

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Fishing!

0-39 -- 40 %
40-69 -- 30 %
70-84 -- 15 %
85-94 -- 10 %
95-99 -- 5 %

Same code is used for ALL rods to calculate slot --

Code:
02246B24 B508     push    {r3,r14}
02246B26 F5D8FF63 bl      #0x201F9F0
02246B2A 2164     mov     r1,#0x64
02246B2C F6ABEB44 blx     #0x20F21B8
02246B30 0408     lsl     r0,r1,#0x10 ; <-- mod result
02246B32 0C00     lsr     r0,r0,#0x10
02246B34 0600     lsl     r0,r0,#0x18
02246B36 0E00     lsr     r0,r0,#0x18
02246B38 2828     cmp     r0,#0x28     ; -- 40
02246B3A D201     bcs     #0x2246B40   ; -- if greater than branch
02246B3C 2000     mov     r0,#0x0      ; -- 0-39 means slot 0
02246B3E BD08     pop     {r3,r15}     ; -- done
02246B40 2846     cmp     r0,#0x46
02246B42 D201     bcs     #0x2246B48
02246B44 2001     mov     r0,#0x1
02246B46 BD08     pop     {r3,r15}
02246B48 2855     cmp     r0,#0x55
02246B4A D201     bcs     #0x2246B50
02246B4C 2002     mov     r0,#0x2
02246B4E BD08     pop     {r3,r15}
02246B50 285F     cmp     r0,#0x5F
02246B52 D201     bcs     #0x2246B58
02246B54 2003     mov     r0,#0x3
02246B56 BD08     pop     {r3,r15}
02246B58 2004     mov     r0,#0x4
02246B5A BD08     pop     {r3,r15}
might as well just document the surfing code, too

Code:
02247720 B508     push    {r3,r14}
02247722 F5D8FB0F bl      #0x201FD44
02247726 2164     mov     r1,#0x64
02247728 F6ABE936 blx     #0x20F2998
0224772C 0408     lsl     r0,r1,#0x10
0224772E 0C00     lsr     r0,r0,#0x10
02247730 0600     lsl     r0,r0,#0x18
02247732 0E00     lsr     r0,r0,#0x18
02247734 283C     cmp     r0,#0x3C ; --
02247736 D201     bcs     #0x224773C
02247738 2000     mov     r0,#0x0
0224773A BD08     pop     {r3,r15}
0224773C D303     bcc     #0x2247746
0224773E 285A     cmp     r0,#0x5A ; --
02247740 D201     bcs     #0x2247746
02247742 2001     mov     r0,#0x1
02247744 BD08     pop     {r3,r15}
02247746 285A     cmp     r0,#0x5A ; --
02247748 D303     bcc     #0x2247752
0224774A 285F     cmp     r0,#0x5F ; --
0224774C D201     bcs     #0x2247752
0224774E 2002     mov     r0,#0x2
02247750 BD08     pop     {r3,r15}
02247752 285F     cmp     r0,#0x5F
02247754 D303     bcc     #0x224775E
02247756 2863     cmp     r0,#0x63
02247758 D201     bcs     #0x224775E
0224775A 2003     mov     r0,#0x3
0224775C BD08     pop     {r3,r15}
0224775E 2004     mov     r0,#0x4
02247760 BD08     pop     {r3,r15}
 
Hi. Didn't see this mentioned here and seems like it might be useful...

The Voltorb Flip games appear to be seeded by the IRNG.

This seems to be done via a multitude of calls. My initial attempts to use it as a seed verification tool while hatching a shiny caused my first egg to hatch on Frame 100 (after loading two games). I only verified the frame via hatching an additional 2 eggs which matched frames 101 and 102.

Performing moves in the game *may* advance the IRNG additional steps beyond board creation. I haven't gotten much testing done with this but I would swear I've had variance in subsequent boards even after rolling the same board for Level 1. So far it seems fairly consistent if you only flip the 2's and 3's (and potentially doing that in a specific order).

If I can pin anything down or find anything else interesting I'll post it...

[edit]
To add more details...
The egg I hatched on frame 100 was after loading two voltorb flip games, Level 1 and Level 2 (and losing on level 2).
I was checking my initial seeds by recording my radio results and voltorb flip. When I noticed the oddities I changed my procedure by omitting four frame advances (one channel change to Trainer Profiles and one to Variety Hour) and received the same board combinations (up to level 5, the max level I had recorded at that point).
[/edit]
 
Romsstar,

I had the following situation occur while trying to RNG an egg for IV's.

I tried using Elm method for seed verification once or twice, but nothing was matching. So I switched back to Roamer method which has always worked great so far. When I finally hit my seed the roamers verified it.

So I started calling Elm to frame advance and verify.
The Elm call log is as follows (I apologize for the length, I was going for frame 37):
k,e,p,p,e,
p,k,e,k,e,
p,k,k,e,e,
e,k,p,k,e,
k,p,p,k,e,
k,k,e,p,e,
e,e

Now below this is the Initial and Current Seed Finder's outputs. Take note that my phone log matches the Current Seed Finder starting at Frame 5 (6). Which happens to be 1 frame after my second roamer advanced. So it seems that the initial seed finder is outputting calls from 0-4 even though the first call was at 5. Not sure what all this means, if anything, for you guys, but I hope it helps in the research.

Initial Seed Finder Output:
3a0603a8:P K K E P P E P K E Forced Seed Advance:2 Frame After Verify:12

Current Seed Finder Output:
Code:
Initial Seed:3a0603a8
 0: Kanto~  3a0603a8
 1: Evolution~ 59d1efb
 2: PKRS~       f4790b52 - Raikou Advancement
 3: PKRS~       8c692e5d
 4: Kanto~  4dd7740c - Entei Advancement
 5: Kanto~  9760718f
 6: Evolution~ fa444c56
 7: PKRS~       3edb1511
 8: PKRS~       1fd986b0
 9: Evolution~ b2c85963
10: PKRS~       701c999a
11: Kanto~  5a16b305
12: Evolution~ 1141f94
13: Kanto~  97a8ea77
14: Evolution~ 9966771e
15: PKRS~       48203c39
16: Kanto~  952962b8
17: Kanto~  310378cb
18: Evolution~ e54aa8e2
19: Evolution~ 610b24ad
20: Evolution~ 1b9b41c
21: Kanto~  ba9a985f
22: PKRS~       86ba32e6
23: Kanto~  dcae2061
24: Evolution~ b007b7c0
25: Kanto~  2bc61d33
26: PKRS~       88b2592a
27: PKRS~       2b972355
28: Kanto~  84dc51a4
29: Evolution~ 7b871b47
30: Kanto~  e2c09fae
31: Kanto~  eb3f6189
32: Evolution~ b2aaa5c8
33: PKRS~       11dbe69b
34: Evolution~ 51c6ca72
35: Evolution~ e97f4efd
36: Evolution~ 89f4182c
37: Kanto~  fa54132f
38: Kanto~  f8fedd76
39: Kanto~  eb429fb1
40: Evolution~ ebec4cd0

End
 
Romsstar,

I had the following situation occur while trying to RNG an egg for IV's.

I tried using Elm method for seed verification once or twice, but nothing was matching. So I switched back to Roamer method which has always worked great so far. When I finally hit my seed the roamers verified it.

So I started calling Elm to frame advance and verify.
The Elm call log is as follows (I apologize for the length, I was going for frame 37):
k,e,p,p,e,
p,k,e,k,e,
p,k,k,e,e,
e,k,p,k,e,
k,p,p,k,e,
k,k,e,p,e,
e,e

Now below this is the Initial and Current Seed Finder's outputs. Take note that my phone log matches the Current Seed Finder starting at Frame 5 (6). Which happens to be 1 frame after my second roamer advanced. So it seems that the initial seed finder is outputting calls from 0-4 even though the first call was at 5. Not sure what all this means, if anything, for you guys, but I hope it helps in the research.

Initial Seed Finder Output:
3a0603a8:P K K E P P E P K E Forced Seed Advance:2 Frame After Verify:12

Current Seed Finder Output:
Code:
Initial Seed:3a0603a8
 0: Kanto~  3a0603a8
 1: Evolution~ 59d1efb
 2: PKRS~       f4790b52 - Raikou Advancement
 3: PKRS~       8c692e5d
 4: Kanto~  4dd7740c - Entei Advancement
 5: Kanto~  9760718f
 6: Evolution~ fa444c56
 7: PKRS~       3edb1511
 8: PKRS~       1fd986b0
 9: Evolution~ b2c85963
10: PKRS~       701c999a
11: Kanto~  5a16b305
12: Evolution~ 1141f94
13: Kanto~  97a8ea77
14: Evolution~ 9966771e
15: PKRS~       48203c39
16: Kanto~  952962b8
17: Kanto~  310378cb
18: Evolution~ e54aa8e2
19: Evolution~ 610b24ad
20: Evolution~ 1b9b41c
21: Kanto~  ba9a985f
22: PKRS~       86ba32e6
23: Kanto~  dcae2061
24: Evolution~ b007b7c0
25: Kanto~  2bc61d33
26: PKRS~       88b2592a
27: PKRS~       2b972355
28: Kanto~  84dc51a4
29: Evolution~ 7b871b47
30: Kanto~  e2c09fae
31: Kanto~  eb3f6189
32: Evolution~ b2aaa5c8
33: PKRS~       11dbe69b
34: Evolution~ 51c6ca72
35: Evolution~ e97f4efd
36: Evolution~ 89f4182c
37: Kanto~  fa54132f
38: Kanto~  f8fedd76
39: Kanto~  eb429fb1
40: Evolution~ ebec4cd0
 
End
I experienced this to happen if you didn't check the roamers at the Initial Seed Finder (even for Elm Method.
Don't forget to check ALL Roamers you're having out, or maybe you let one roamer checked (like the Lat) that you caught already.
Can you check this?

It could also be a NPC that you didn't take into account. Try it in a calm RNG Area (Mewtwos Cave for e.g)
 
I experienced this to happen if you didn't check the roamers at the Initial Seed Finder (even for Elm Method.
Don't forget to check ALL Roamers you're having out, or maybe you let one roamer checked (like the Lat) that you caught already.
Can you check this?

It could also be a NPC that you didn't take into account. Try it in a calm RNG Area (Mewtwos Cave for e.g)
I only have Entei and Raikou for Roamers, both were checked and I put their path numbers in the box next to them. Lat was left unchecked and blank textbox.

It is possible to be an NPC, I was next to the daycare man to pick up my egg. I believe there is on NPC who advances the RNG here. My starting frame there is usually about 5, so that could be why. I'll try going for Mewtwo today, and let you know the results.
 
Just tested it at Goldenrot City at the Pension for Breeding.
Although you gotta be quick and press as soon as you enter the game x (as the RNG is not calm there) you still can verify your seed fine with the Elm Method and also advance your RNG with it, you gotta be quick then and press as fast as possible A so just like in DPPt but the Seed Verifier works there also just fine.
Tested with 3 Roamers out, I guess it should also work with 2 Roamers out.
 
The same trouble I had when I was abusing for my Sandshrew (thank god I got it), I'm having now with Raikou. When I try to get a lower frame I can accurately hit it, but when I try for a higher frame, the result always gets really far from what's expected as the radio doesn't advance the frame consistently as it used to. I guess that happens due to the clock change. I'm gonna make some tests on that to see if I can find a pattern and then I'll report the results.

EDIT:
The problem is not in the hour change, what makes me get even more irritated. However, the day change affects the frame. I can't accept that I tuned and detuned 19 times more than I should have on my first try, though. Here's what I did:

Aimed for: 336
Ended up getting: 393
Time: changed from 20:59 to 21:00

Aimed for: 110
Ended up getting: 120
Time: changed from 23:59 to 0:00

Aimed for: 5
Ended up getting: 5
Time: no changes - 10:15

Aimed for: 5
Ended up getting: 5
Time: changed from 20:59 to 21:00

Aimed for: 5
Ended up getting: 8
Timed changed from 23:59 to 0:00
 
The same trouble I had when I was abusing for my Sandshrew (thank god I got it), I'm having now with Raikou. When I try to get a lower frame I can accurately hit it, but when I try for a higher frame, the result always gets really far from what's expected as the radio doesn't advance the frame consistently as it used to. I guess that happens due to the clock change. I'm gonna make some tests on that to see if I can find a pattern and then I'll report the results.

EDIT:
The problem is not in the hour change, what makes me get even more irritated. However, the day change affects the frame. I can't accept that I tuned and detuned 19 times more than I should have on my first try, though. Here's what I did:

Aimed for: 336
Ended up getting: 393
Time: changed from 20:59 to 21:00

Aimed for: 110
Ended up getting: 120
Time: changed from 23:59 to 0:00

Aimed for: 5
Ended up getting: 5
Time: no changes - 10:15

Aimed for: 5
Ended up getting: 5
Time: changed from 20:59 to 21:00

Aimed for: 5
Ended up getting: 8
Timed changed from 23:59 to 0:00
It would probably help to know what channels you were tuning(show name and/or button), how many times for each channel, and were you detuning by dragging the radio signal to the center?

The lower right channel is pretty consistent at 1 frame per tuning.
In my testing the lower left channel averages about 3.25 frames per tuning, but it depends on the time and show that is on the channel.
 
@YodaJM: That might have been the problem as I was using primarly the lower left channel to advance the frame. I was tunning into That Town, Those People. Right now I did it 9 times for a frame of 28: 3*9=27 + 1(mosnter frame)=28 and I got a frame of 34. Then, I tried again with 7 times and that got me a frame of 25 so I did it 8 times and ended up with a frame of 27. Then, as it was 11:56 and Buena's Password was on the air on the lower-right channel, I waited until 12, tuned into Trainer Profiles (the program on the lower-left changed with the hour) 8 times and 1 time on the lower-right channel and got a frame of 26. Maybe this time I'll just tune and detune 27 times into the lower-right channel...
 
The lower right seems to be the most consistent for frame advancement. You'll probably want to take this to the RNG Help/Info thread for further help.
 

mingot

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Roamer frame advancement in HG/SS.

Here is how it works:

First, the location of all roamers is stored in the save file when you save a game.

Next, then the game loads it goes through for each roamer that you have out and calls the RNG and converts the result to a route. If that route is the same route that the roamer was on when you save it calls the RNG again, as many time as is necessary, so the roamer will be on a different route for the new game load.

That solves the mystery of what the text boxes are for in PHS.

Now for a slight rub -- while examining the code I found one other check that can cause an RNG reroll. I don't see any corresponding code in PHS so that software is either missing the case OR it's an impossible case. Either way, I am spending some time on it.

Code:
; start of routine
02067830 B5F8     push    {r3-r7,r14}
02067832 B082     add     sp,-#0x8
02067834 9000     str     r0,[sp]
02067836 9101     str     r1,[sp,#0x4]
02067838 1C17     mov     r7,r2                    ; need to know what this is
0206783A F7C6F8DD bl      #0x202D9F8
0206783E 0081     lsl     r1,r0,#0x2
02067840 480F     ldr     r0,=#0x20FE4B8
02067842 5846     ldr     r6,[r0,r1]            ; location at SAVE
02067844 9801     ldr     r0,[sp,#0x4]

; depending on where we are in the loop
; we want to set r4 to our mod value so
; we can get a route number from the rng

; r5 is?

; r0 will iterate 0-2, so this will run three times
02067846 2801     cmp     r0,#0x1

02067848 D802     bhi     two                ;#0x2067850
: one_or_zero
0206784A 2410     mov     r4,#0x10
0206784C 2500     mov     r5,#0x0
0206784E E001     b       roll_rng            ;#0x2067854
: two
02067850 2419     mov     r4,#0x19
02067852 2510     mov     r5,#0x10

; if r0 == 0 || r0 == 1
; r4 = 16
; r5 - 0
l if r0 == 2
; r4 = 25
; r5 = 16

; done getting our mod value
: roll_rng
02067854 F7B8FA76 bl      :lcrng            ; CALL THE RNG

02067858 1C21     mov     r1,r4
0206785A F08BE89E blx     :division            ;#0x20F2998
0206785E 1868     add     r0,r5,r1

; for the first two the result in r0:
; 0 - 16
; for the last the result in r0 (lati):
; 16 - 40

02067860 0600     lsl     r0,r0,#0x18

02067862 0E02     lsr     r2,r0,#0x18        ; move our value into r2
02067864 4806     ldr     r0,=#0x20FE4B8    ; load the mem location of lookup table
02067866 0091     lsl     r1,r2,#0x2        ; load into r1 the value of r2 << 2 
                                            ; (*4. 32 bit indexing here for the array)

; get the contents of the lookup table at offset r1 into r3
02067868 5843     ldr     r3,[r0,r1]

0206786A 42BB     cmp     r3,r7
0206786C D0F2     beq     roll_rng            ;#0x2067854
0206786E 42B3     cmp     r3,r6
02067870 D0F0     beq     roll_rng            ;#0x2067854

02067872 9800     ldr     r0,[sp]
02067874 9901     ldr     r1,[sp,#0x4]
02067876 F000F84D bl      #0x2067914
0206787A B002     add     sp,#0x8
0206787C BDF8     pop     {r3-r7,r15}

route lookup chart

Code:
 ------------------------------------------
  Table that starts at
  20FE4B8 -----------------------------
  ------------------------------------------
  00:21 Route 29
  01:22 Route 30
  02:23 Route 31
  03:24 Route 32
  04:25 Route 33
  05:26 Route 34
  06:27 Route 35
  07:28 Route 36
  08:29 Route 37
  09:2A Route 38
  10:2B Route 39
  -
  11:2C Route 42
  12:2D Route 43
  13:2E Route 44
  14:2F Route 45
  15:30 Route 46
  ------------------------------------------
  00:16:09 Route 1
  01:17:0A Route 2
  02:18:0B Route 3
  03:19:0C Route 4
  04:20:0D Route 5
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