Pokémon Pheromosa

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Erm... die Pheromosa die?

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Jolly
Speed Boost
4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed (whatever the needed EVs to outspeed it)
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Aerial Ace

thelol Ninjask can do something else than Baton Pass.
 

Trinitrotoluene

young ☆nd foolish
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revisiting this thread.

with the recent aegislash ban, one more set that just became viable is a quiver dance set. while aegislash previously walled this set to the ends of the earth and back, its ban makes choosing coverage options a bit of an easier task.


quiver dance (cello suite) //
Pheromosa @ Life Orb / Expert Belt | Beast Boost
Rash | 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
• Quiver Dance
• High Jump Kick
• Ice Beam / Bug Buzz
• Hidden Power [Electric] / Hidden Power [Ground] / Bug Buzz

ignore the slashitis, but this lists many of pheromosa's coverage options. quiver dance is the obligatory boosting move. high jump kick is given the nod over focus blast on this set since it bashes most special walls (read: chansey) harder than a +1 focus blast would have. for the third slot, ice beam gets better neutral coverage, but bug buzz can be used to score a harder hit on mega venusaur and starmie. the last slot is dedicated to smacking certain pheromosa switch-ins. hp electric decimates pelipper, mantine, and gyarados on the switch while hp ground ruins alolan marowak, toxapex, and tentacruel. alternatively, if you have countermeasures against these mons, you can run both bug buzz and ice beam together.

edit: rash nature give pheromosa a soul-heart-esque effect and ensures that it's hitting as hard as possible.

---

and quit it with the quickban complaints. they add no conversational value whatsoever.
 
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Erm... die Pheromosa die?

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Jolly
Speed Boost
4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed (whatever the needed EVs to outspeed it)
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Aerial Ace

thelol Ninjask can do something else than Baton Pass.
I was thinking of something similar to this. Due to Aegislash's ban, Trinitotoluene has rightly pointed out that another set is viable, therefore its versatility, unpredictbility and popularity has only increased. I wonder what happens if it gets inflicted with confusion? If it gets OHKOed then Foul Play probably wouldn't be necessary, and thus Snarl / Knock Off would be better options. It's very situational, but still viable for a laugh.

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Confuse Ray
- Taunt
- Foul Play
 
Fun facts of the day:



252+ SpA Comfey Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Pheromosa: 314-372 (110.9 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Comfey: 257-304 (83.9 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Comfey: 156-183 (50.9 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Comfey: 84-100 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 103-121 (33.6 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mind you, Triage offers Draining Kiss +3 priority.
 
Fun facts of the day:



252+ SpA Comfey Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Pheromosa: 314-372 (110.9 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Comfey: 257-304 (83.9 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Comfey: 156-183 (50.9 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Comfey: 84-100 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 103-121 (33.6 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mind you, Triage offers Draining Kiss +3 priority.
Yeah, Triage sounds pretty damn powerful, considering Comfey's access to other healing moves like it's sig move, Floral Healing. I can see this pokemon becoming one of those heal supports and I can tell it'll make an impact in Doubles or VGC format. Mind you, it's gonna be Taunt fodder without a Mental Herb.
 
Fun facts of the day:



252+ SpA Comfey Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Pheromosa: 314-372 (110.9 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Comfey: 257-304 (83.9 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Comfey: 156-183 (50.9 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Comfey: 84-100 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 103-121 (33.6 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mind you, Triage offers Draining Kiss +3 priority.
I am surprised Poison jab doesn't OHKO. Plus even if you come into spikes, as long as you weren't going to eat a Poison jab that turn you can OHKO her next turn and heal up any damage you took
 
Yeah, I was surprised at the bulk it managed, I thought that it would only be an answer provided that a Poison Jab on the switch-in wasn't predicted, but apparently it does work, and just perfectly too seeing as 252/0 has a chance to KO while 252/4 doesn't.
 
I've been resetting for a HP Ground Pheromosa, when I came across one with HP Ghost.

Would this be worth keeping, or should I keep resetting for Ground? Ghost + whatever doesn't quite have the SE coverage offered by Ground + whatever, but it gives Pheromosa a way to punish Ghost-types who would otherwise laugh at its STABs.
 
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I've been trying out Charizard-X against Pheromosa, and a bulkier spread pre-mega grants it the ability to take multiple HJKs and either set up or ko it back outright:

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Charizard: 152-179 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Charizard: 125-148 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Charizard: 125-148 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Charizard: 40-48 (11.1 - 13.3%) -- possible 8HKO

Zard also needs only 132 EVs and a boosting nature to outspeed it after a DD, assuming Pheromosa doesn't have a speed boost. If it does, you still threaten it with and OHKO regardless.
 
I've been seeing Pheromosa all over the place, no question about that, but the sets I've seen her running (while all having the same basic theme) have been pretty varied. Scarfs, Bands, LOs, Fightinium, even a few Sashes here and there.

That's just in my experience, but speaking as someone who has never used Pheromosa (because I adamantly refuse to become one of those people), I'm not sure which one should be considered the go-to best set; all variations pretty much kick everything's ass. What do the rest of you think, what's (or worst depending on how you look at it) Phero set at the present time?
 

The.Lost.Hylian

Conquer your Shadow
is a Researcher Alumnus
That's just in my experience, but speaking as someone who has never used Pheromosa (because I adamantly refuse to become one of those people)...
I feel in order to more completely understand a Pokemon, one would need to not only battle against it but also wield it. And as someone who has used it on a couple of teams for OU, Pokebank OU, and VGC 2017, I can confidently say this is one of the best Pokemon in Alola bar the box legends, if not the best. All you have to do is literally throw it on any team and something is going to die. You can tailor it to kill anything you want. We should not be doing 50%+ damage on resisted hits to over half the meta without some stat boosting, but AHA, all you need to do is cater your EV spread to have higher Atk/SAt for Beast Boost and STILL outspeed the entire unboosted meta without max Spd. The versatility and raw power combined with the choice between +Atk/SAt/Spd boosting after a kill (which you will kill something almost guaranteed) makes this thing way too busted for the current meta.

I suggest you use Pheromosa, abuse it as much as possible, until we can all come to agreement that it needs to go.
 
It's very powerful it can easily u turn for decent free damage whenever it wants to, and you cant let it get a kill or it outspeeds even your scarfers...it's extremely hard to deal with if you're playing offense. It does have checks for sure but it's still very overbearing. Like the design though lol
 
I just want to echo that if you think something is banworthy, refusing to use it simply reduces its chances of being banned and reduces your expertise on the subject. If you want it gone, abuse it.
This...when the time inevitably comes for a suspect you want to have better reasoning than "it beats me" you really do need to use a pokemon to truly understand it I believe.
 
I just tried Pheromosa, it's absolutely ridiculous. I'm all for a suspect test in OU now. Should be in any team whether you play singles or doubles. Even in VGC where it faces attacks from two other mons, it still hits really hard and is bound to kill or neuter something.

But for singles OU; I won't repeat what others have said because the way I played Pheromosa was the exact same record scratching; U-turn for momentum, Fighting/Bug STAB + Ice Beam/HP coverage too stronk, blah blah blah, same story. But that's the point; it's just brain-dead easy to use, can be tailored to hit physically or specially, and practically requires an answer or two in every team.

We've already seen shit like this in past gens. BW had Excadrill + Sand Rush and Swift Swim + Drizzle get the boot when weather was infinite. XY had all the obnoxiously powerful megas like Lucario, Kanga, Mawile, Mence that were just straight up busted once its checks were removed. I'm glad, at the very least, that they and Pheromosa were given a chance. But what I'm seeing right now is the same thing as in previous gens, an obnoxiously powerful sweeper that dominates once its dedicated checks are dealt with. I won't call for a ban, but I am definitely in favor of suspect testing it.
 
Surprised to see no one mention the fact that Pheromosa gets Me First, it's probably the best abuser of it.

That 151 speed guarantees you're going first against a LOT, even without a speed boosting nature, and with proper prediction Me First becomes terrifying with its built in choice item boost

Take a look at this

Pheromosa @ Normalium-Z | Beast Boost
Naughty/Rash | 252 Atk/ 4 SpA / 252 Spe OR 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
• Me First
• High Jump Kick
• Ice Beam / Bug Buzz / Lunge
• Hidden Power [Electric] / Hidden Power [Ground] / Bug Buzz / Lunge / Rapid Spin


The given nature and EVs guarantee an attack/sp. attack boost, while maximizing speed.
Normalium-Z is chosen for its fantastic effect with Me First, granting +2 speed and immediately following up with a Z-Move is great, and if the opponent switches or uses a status move you still keep the boost. High Jump Kick is an incredibly high base power STAB move coming off 137 attack, while the last two slots are down to personal preference. Ice Beam hits several threats that otherwise wall Pheromosa completely, while Bug Buzz and Lunge are both good STAB options, depending on whether or not you've chosen to be physically or specially inclined. Do note that Lunge's guaranteed attack drop can provide setup opportunities for teammates in a pinch. The last slot is wide open, either for Hidden power to provide coverage, another STAB option, or Rapid Spin to clear hazards while keeping your own. U-Turn could be considered, though Pheromosa can't use it without losing any acquired buffs, and Normalium-Z's buff can only be used once per battle.

Remember that Me First gives any move it copies a 50% power boost and use that to your advantage, as a number of pokemon do not resist their own STAB or coverage and coming off base 137 attacking stats with a pseudo-choice buff you can deal some serious damage.

What do you all think?
 
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antemortem

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Me First is really gimmicky and a huge draw to Pheromosa is its ability to act as a pivot with little to no opportunity cost, and not running U-turn undermines that. Also, Ice Beam is pretty much mandatory for hitting Phero's resists like Tapu Bulu and Pelipper. I do like the creativity and potential of the concept, though, and I may run it myself to see what actual merit it has.
 
Thanks for the critique, this is the first set I've ever actually put together.
At the very least, there's some surprise factor.
Also, I'd like to hear how it goes if you ever try it out, I don't get on showdown very often.
 
Here's my Pheromosa Set I made to get rid of lead standard set focus sash Mamo's, as well as Smeargle and Lycanroc. You trade off HJK, but the return is more significant I would think, in most of my cases anyways.

C-c-c-counter (Pheromosa) @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 Atk / 16 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
- Double Kick

With that spread, you have a VERY slim chance of not OHKO Mamo. Smeargle and Lycanroc auto die, and Pheromosa can live any of the priority moves should they go for those. Here's calcs:

240+ Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 348-422 (96.3 - 116.8%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
240+ Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lycanroc-Midday: 410-488 (140.4 - 167.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Pheromosa: 171-202 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lycanroc-Midday Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Pheromosa: 144-169 (50.8 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You can go lower to 216 atk for speed boost instead of atk boost from beast boost, but your odds become less. In any case, was a fun set to use and put many a' mamoswine and smeargle into the dirt. I made a video of the set and a showcase of the games via my signature, if you're interested. It's more of a "use it while you can" set as if it became a bit more wide known then well people would just switch out to a counter/wall ^^'
 
I think that this pokemon has to be put on a Higher tier, if in your team you dont have Hazards or priotity pokemon Pheromosa is a hell, it gots an insane speed Sp. Attack and attack, it is just needed a Focus Sash and Quiver Dance to start Sweepering, it has to put in Uber I guess
 
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Here's my Pheromosa Set I made to get rid of lead standard set focus sash Mamo's, as well as Smeargle and Lycanroc. You trade off HJK, but the return is more significant I would think, in most of my cases anyways.

C-c-c-counter (Pheromosa) @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 Atk / 16 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
- Double Kick

With that spread, you have a VERY slim chance of not OHKO Mamo. Smeargle and Lycanroc auto die, and Pheromosa can live any of the priority moves should they go for those. Here's calcs:

240+ Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 348-422 (96.3 - 116.8%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
240+ Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lycanroc-Midday: 410-488 (140.4 - 167.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Pheromosa: 171-202 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lycanroc-Midday Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Pheromosa: 144-169 (50.8 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You can go lower to 216 atk for speed boost instead of atk boost from beast boost, but your odds become less. In any case, was a fun set to use and put many a' mamoswine and smeargle into the dirt. I made a video of the set and a showcase of the games via my signature, if you're interested. It's more of a "use it while you can" set as if it became a bit more wide known then well people would just switch out to a counter/wall ^^'
Double kick huh? I am interested to say the least. Other then removing Mamoswine and other focus sash leads, any other merits to Lonely Double kick vs Naive High Jump kick?
 
I would still use HJK even if i'd run double kick


Because Double Kick Pheromosa is fucking weak as fuck. Seriously, the ONLY reason Pheromosa is strong is HJK.
 
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