To be honest, I really wouldn't go into an OU battle with Swampert unless it has Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock differentiates it from other bulky waters, while its usable special attack and Surf/Hydro Pump differentiate it from bulky grounds, well, other than its fantastic typing.
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Pokémon HeartGold & SoulSilver - The Offical Competitive Discussion Thread
- Thread starter RBG
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If you've got Stealth Rock elsewhere on your team, going Protect/Roar/Ice Beam/EQ can be a nasty surprise.
I disagree - its Ground typing lets it take rock attacks much better than other bulky waters, and of course stealth rock like you said. Lets not forget that Swampert is also more capable of attacking from the physical side than other bulky waters, who are typically restricted to Surf. Its not just stealth rock.
You pretty much nailed its advantages over its fellow bulky grounds, IMO.
Here is a SubSwordDance Feraligatr HG/SS set I thought of
Feraligatr@ Leftovers/ Liechi Berry
Ability Torrent
Adamant nature
EV 232 HP/ 24 DEF/ 252 ATK
Substitute
Sword Dance
Aqua Jet
Dragon Claw/ Ice Punch/ Earthquake
Substitute then Sword Dance then Sweep. The last slot is for Coverage.
Feraligatr@ Leftovers/ Liechi Berry
Ability Torrent
Adamant nature
EV 232 HP/ 24 DEF/ 252 ATK
Substitute
Sword Dance
Aqua Jet
Dragon Claw/ Ice Punch/ Earthquake
Substitute then Sword Dance then Sweep. The last slot is for Coverage.
This sounds great on paper, but you're going to have to predict when to sub or attack against pokemon before you get down to the berry and torrent zone. Since you're so slow pokemon that can break your sub will cause troubles if you don't sub as they break your first sub. Also, what are the 24 def evs for?
Because he wanted an exact HP, so the rest were poured into defense to take Bullet Punch better.
EDIT: And any Sub-Salac/Liechi gatr NEEDS Flail, otherwise Gyarados outclasses it.
How? Gyarados has Intimidate, not Torrent, and Feraligatr also has Agility(can run a similar set as Empoleon with Sub/Agility/Waterfall/Dragon Claw) to double its speed. Sub-Salac variants also have Swords Dance, while any variant can use Dragon Claw.
I don't know how I just realised that stalling Walrein gets Aqua Ring.
He almost has too many options for that set now.
The necessary ingredients are Protect and Substitute but then any two from Blizzard/Earthquake/Toxic/Roar and now Super Fang/Aqua Ring can complement them.
Super Fang is probably the better new move as now he has a single attack to try wearing down Gyarados, Breloom, Metagross, Jirachi while still being able to hit Tyranitar with Surf.
For Glalie, Block is no longer illegal with Spikes due to the Move Tutor so it's a valid option on the Spiker.
He still seems to be outdone by either Froslass or Walrein depending on what you want out of him so I haven't really bothered.
He almost has too many options for that set now.
The necessary ingredients are Protect and Substitute but then any two from Blizzard/Earthquake/Toxic/Roar and now Super Fang/Aqua Ring can complement them.
Super Fang is probably the better new move as now he has a single attack to try wearing down Gyarados, Breloom, Metagross, Jirachi while still being able to hit Tyranitar with Surf.
For Glalie, Block is no longer illegal with Spikes due to the Move Tutor so it's a valid option on the Spiker.
He still seems to be outdone by either Froslass or Walrein depending on what you want out of him so I haven't really bothered.
Arcanine@ Leftovers
Ability Intimidate
Impish nature
EV 252 HP/ 252 DEF/ 6 ATK
Flare Blitz
Will o Wisp
Toxic
Morning Sun
This is a bulky, double status arcanine that I've been having a fair amount of success with. With it's evs and intimidate it fears very little on the physical side. Even stabbed earthquakes have trouble hurting it. After an intimidate and a will o wisp donphan finds itself only doing 20-25% damage. Most azumarill deal only 30-40% with waterfall, and half of that with aqua jet(which is more common). With Morning sun both can be outlasted and eventually killed.
So far the huge weaknesses I've seen are special sweepers and milotic. If milotic switches in on a will o wisp I'm toast. Arcanine is pretty frail on the special side and with no ev investment in speed is also slow so he's weak against fast pokes with high special attack.
I doubt this set will ever be widely used, but so far it has been fun and has worked well enough for me.
Ability Intimidate
Impish nature
EV 252 HP/ 252 DEF/ 6 ATK
Flare Blitz
Will o Wisp
Toxic
Morning Sun
This is a bulky, double status arcanine that I've been having a fair amount of success with. With it's evs and intimidate it fears very little on the physical side. Even stabbed earthquakes have trouble hurting it. After an intimidate and a will o wisp donphan finds itself only doing 20-25% damage. Most azumarill deal only 30-40% with waterfall, and half of that with aqua jet(which is more common). With Morning sun both can be outlasted and eventually killed.
So far the huge weaknesses I've seen are special sweepers and milotic. If milotic switches in on a will o wisp I'm toast. Arcanine is pretty frail on the special side and with no ev investment in speed is also slow so he's weak against fast pokes with high special attack.
I doubt this set will ever be widely used, but so far it has been fun and has worked well enough for me.
You could try running Sunny Day over WoW, which removes your only common special weakness, boosts your Fire move and allows you to restore more health. By doing this you get to beat Milotic and other Waters one-on-one, but if going this route you might also want to change your Fire move to Flamethrower or Fire Blast to toast Donphan, running a Bold nature instead obviously. I would also take some EVs out of HP and run 64 speed EVs to outpace Adamant Honchkrow, but it's up to you.
Doing this will cause some problems Lemmiwinks. Namely his weakness to fire will increase forthwidth (or however you say it.) and it'll restrict its access to a standard teams as it'll aim for Sunny day teams.
Hmmmm While the sub sd sounds nice, I feel like having EQ and ice punch is quite necessary on feraligatr as it will be walled by dragons or steels if not.
I've actually been testing out SubSD Salac set, since it lets you hit with +2 torrent boosted Aqua Jets, but Return/Ice Punch comes out fast enough to matter
I'll try out the new evs and see how I like them. I have a feeling honchcrow is going to go back to BL soon, so they may not be necessary for long.
I think I'll keep will o wisp on my normal team, but I might make a sun team and use sunny day. I have been wanting to try out weather ball victreebell.
Thank you for the advice.
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