Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

[QuentinQuonce]

Okay I know Gen VIII went a bit crazy with handing out all sorts of moves via TMs and TRs but what justification is there for giving Rapidash Swords Dance? I know the move doesn't actually require a sword, contrary to many of its animations. A horse can dance (as the video below demonstrates brilliantly) but Swords Dance tends to be learned by aggressive, combative, or vicious Pokemon (although there are some weird exceptions, like Hoppip and Celebi) which Rapidash very much is not. Its Pokedex entries make frequent note of it being competitive and proud, but not ill-tempered or surly.

For that matter, Seviper getting it is kind of an oddity, too. It fits with what I just said about aggressive and vicious species, but how the hell does a snake do a "frenetic fighting dance"? I'm imagining it wriggling about on the ground while the opponent just stares in disbelief.

 

[SpiritGuy]

Okay I know Gen VIII went a bit crazy with handing out all sorts of moves via TMs and TRs but what justification is there for giving Rapidash Swords Dance? I know the move doesn't actually require a sword, contrary to many of its animations. A horse can dance (as the video below demonstrates brilliantly) but Swords Dance tends to be learned by aggressive, combative, or vicious Pokemon (although there are some weird exceptions, like Hoppip and Celebi) which Rapidash very much is not. Its Pokedex entries make frequent note of it being competitive and proud, but not ill-tempered or surly.

Rapidash is a horny Pokemon and many Pokemon with horns can learn Swords Dance too (Samurott, Heracross, Absol...) so why not Rapidash ?

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Rapidash is a horny Pokemon and many Pokemon with horns can learn Swords Dance too (Samurott, Heracross, Absol...) so why not Rapidash ?

Well, you've got me there. I guess by that logic it should have learned it in earlier generations, but it didn't, even though SD has nearly always been a teachable move.

 

[Worldie]

Well, you've got me there. I guess by that logic it should have learned it in earlier generations, but it didn't, even though SD has nearly always been a teachable move.

The simplest reason is that they probably forgot, and then when they went making Galarian Rapidash moveset they were like "oh, yeah, this thing could learn Sword Dance, let's give it"

 

[QuentinQuonce]

The simplest reason is that they probably forgot, and then when they went making Galarian Rapidash moveset they were like "oh, yeah, this thing could learn Sword Dance, let's give it"

Makes sense to me!

 

[PokemonCrusader]

Crawdaunt is actually a red swamp crayfish according to Bulbapedia, and according to google they are actually highly aggressive and they tend to kill their own species using their claws. I'm pretty sure that's why Crawdaunt gets Close Combat, I could be wrong.

Crawdaunt: the State Pokemon of Louisiana

Reminds me of a kickass song.

"We stopped off in a no name town to grab a bite to eat
And the ceiling fans they hung above a screened in patio
Crawfish hotter than a chimney fire the beer was cheap and cold
And the bar maid smiled that kind of smile that knocked me off my stool"

Shreveport (Turnpike Troubadours)

 

[Sonikku A]

For that matter, Seviper getting it is kind of an oddity, too. It fits with what I just said about aggressive and vicious species, but how the hell does a snake do a "frenetic fighting dance"? I'm imagining it wriggling about on the ground while the opponent just stares in disbelief.

I mean...his tail is noticeably blade shaped
which....

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I mean...his tail is noticeably blade shaped
which....
View attachment 362486

So it swings its tail around...? I'm just having trouble visualising Seviper dancing.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

So it swings its tail around...? I'm just having trouble visualising Seviper dancing.

I'm imagining it as a dramatic spin into a coil and rear up, and then some threatening hissing and brandishing of its knife tail like a rattlesnake, with some swaying of the body as well.

 

[Worldie]

I'm imagining it as a dramatic spin into a coil and rear up, and then some threatening hissing and brandishing of its knife tail like a rattlesnake, with some swaying of the body as well.

Thanks now i'm imagining a Seviper yelling "I HAVE A SWORD AND AM NOT AFRAID TO USE IT"

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I'm imagining it as a dramatic spin into a coil and rear up, and then some threatening hissing and brandishing of its knife tail like a rattlesnake, with some swaying of the body as well.

Thanks now i'm imagining a Seviper yelling "I HAVE A SWORD AND AM NOT AFRAID TO USE IT"

Serperior can learn Swords Dance too, for the record

 

[Worldie]

Serperior can learn Swords Dance too, for the record

Duh, serperior is a classy snake from a royal lineage, they teach swordsmanship in these

(unironically I wouldnt be surprised if the reason i something on these lines)

 

[Imperial Magala]

The Snivy line already get Leaf Blade, so Swords Dance makes sense. My general rule with Swords Dance is that the Pokemon have to be somewhat sharp, be physical tough and assertive, or be a dancer. Since most Grass types get access to Razor Leaf and/or Leaf Blade, Swords Dance makes some sort of sense. Then we get Lileep and Cradily, who get Swords Dance without learning Razor Leaf or Leaf Blade, are passively tough, and do not dance.

 

[BoomFantastic]

Duh, serperior is a classy snake from a royal lineage, they teach swordsmanship in these

(unironically I wouldnt be surprised if the reason i something on these lines)

Serperior connoisseur here; it draws heavy inspiration from French nobility, with Sugimori specifically referring to a character from the anime The Rose of Versailles as an inspiration. Its dex entries state that amplifies solar energy within its body, a reference to Louis XIV who dubbed himself the "Sun King", and its pale face resembles the whitening fashion popular among the upper class at the time. Most importantly, it bears the Fleur-de-Lis on its chest.

And speaking of French Royalty, modern Fencing is widely associated with it, having been fine-tuned under the French school of fencing after its appearance in the Italian school. A French nobleman would have been more or less obliged to know how to wield a rapier, and in addition, noblemen were taught secret techniques unavailable to those who paid normal price for lessons under an experienced fencer. To go even further, Serperior's dex entry from B2W2 states that it only gives its all against those unfazed by its glare, which seems to go hand-in-hand with the code of honor taught in any French academy with a fencing course, such that Serperior doesn't trounce a defenseless opponent.

So yeah, Serperior is all about French nobility which is heavily associated with swordfighting, et ainsi, le serpent sait danser avec épées.

 

[Sirya]

Most attacks a Pokémon can learn are selected at random. Like, there is not a Game Freak employee meticulously examining each move for each Pokémon until determining if said move makes real sense or not. Obvious moves yes, but for the rest they just go the "why not" route.

There are more than 800 Pokémon. You can explain anything you want and it will make sense one way or the other; too much exceptions. Like Rapidash get access to SD because it has horns, or Serperior because its royal, or whatever you want because its blue and there are blue mons that learn that move...

They are not thinking this as much as we are lol.

 

[Worldie]

Most attacks a Pokémon can learn are selected at random. Like, there is not a Game Freak employee meticulously examining each move for each Pokémon until determining if said move makes real sense or not. Obvious moves yes, but for the rest they just go the "why not" route.

There are more than 800 Pokémon. You can explain anything you want and it will make sense one way or the other; too much exceptions. Like Rapidash get access to SD because it has horns, or Serperior because its royal, or whatever you want because its blue and there are blue mons that learn that move...

They are not thinking this as much as we are lol.

You're actually mistaken here.

In fact, movepools (if you exclude gen 1 and 2 cause... these are often a mess since at the time the games weren't yet following much more logic than WOW A DRAGON), are usually selected quite carefully and large majority of the attacks actually make sense either from logic or folkloristic point.

It's very rare that a pokemon learns a move that it makes no sense to have. Sure sometimes the reference is obscure, but there's almost always one.

 

[Sirya]

You're actually mistaken here.

In fact, movepools (if you exclude gen 1 and 2 cause... these are often a mess since at the time the games weren't yet following much more logic than WOW A DRAGON), are usually selected quite carefully and large majority of the attacks actually make sense either from logic or folkloristic point.

It's very rare that a pokemon learns a move that it makes no sense to have. Sure sometimes the reference is obscure, but there's almost always one.

Im not mistaken.

Majority of moves arent handpicked using extensive reasoning. You dont go Pokémon per Pokémon in all the 800 Pokémon doing a thesis to determine if it makes sense for Serperior to learn Dig or Canon. Game Freak does not reunite all of their employees to ask: "Todays question is: should this random Pokémon being able to learn Ice Beam? Your turn, Peter.

Peter: Well, based on my doctoral analysis, Tauros should be able to learn it, because (5 hours discussion concerning Tauros and Ice Beam)."

Do u really think, if you check the entire movepool of all the Pokémon, every single move has recieved an appropiate, individualized analysis? No lol. They are lazy af in other simplier aspects, they will not invest 50 hours in Bulbasaur to conclude what exacts moves can it learn before jumping into Ivysaur. Some of them are picked for a reason and others are just filler that can be put because yes.

 

[Worldie]

Do u really think, if you check the entire movepool of all the Pokémon, every single move has recieved an appropiate, individualized analysis? No lol. They are lazy af in other simplier aspects, they will not invest 50 hours in Bulbasaur to conclude what exacts moves can it learn before jumping into Ivysaur. Some of them are picked for a reason and others are just filler that can be put because yes.

I actually do, mainly because this wasn't done over the course of a gen, but with the introduction of each pokemon in its given gen, with the occasional update between generations.

They didn't build sword and shield and on the spot make up the movepool of 1000 pokemon.
In SwSh they made the movepool of the 100 or so that were developed, and occasionally added a new move to old ones.
During SM development, they made the movepool of these 100 or so.
During XY, of these 100.

Etc.
Looks pretty... logic to me.

When designing "Calyrex" moveset, they just went "Ok this is a psychic guy with a big head that draws his powers from faith of people and the land, let's give him the standard Psychic learnset with the generic psychic coverage that almost every psychic gets, some grass moves and some moves related to life and knighthood".
It's not as an obscene concept as you make it. You don't need to "cherrypick", rather start from generic moveset then add flavour moves.

Edit: I specifically mentioned "except gen 1 and 2" because "lol tauros learns ice beam" is a standard gen 1 issue where moves were given just for gameplay purposes and without much logic behind. Not a case lot of gen 1 and 2 pokes have "old gen only transfer moves", because lot of stuff that didnt make sense got removed going onwards with the generations.

 

[Celever]

Im not mistaken.

Majority of moves arent handpicked using extensive reasoning. You dont go Pokémon per Pokémon in all the 800 Pokémon doing a thesis to determine if it makes sense for Serperior to learn Dig or Canon. Game Freak does not reunite all of their employees to ask: "Todays question is: should this random Pokémon being able to learn Ice Beam? Your turn, Peter.

Peter: Well, based on my doctoral analysis, Tauros should be able to learn it, because (5 hours discussion concerning Tauros and Ice Beam)."

Do u really think, if you check the entire movepool of all the Pokémon, every single move has recieved an appropiate, individualized analysis? No lol. They are lazy af in other simplest aspects, they will not invest 50 hours in Bulbasaur to conclude what exacts moves can it learn before jumping into Ivysaur. Some of them are picked for a reason and others are just filler that can be put because yes.

A group of people have to decide what moves to program into a Pokémon's learnset, and then when new moves are introduced have to decide which older Pokémon they make sense for. It doesn't take 50 hours, but they're also not plucked out of thin air.

Some moves will be decided by whimsy for sure, because a particular dev just thinks it makes sense and programs it in, and from time to time a move will be put on something exclusively for gameplay purposes, but those are the tiny exception. More than anything this thread is a way to share random nuggets of folklore / mythology facts, because those are used to justify movepools a lot of the time.

 

[Sirya]

I actually do, mainly because this wasn't done over the course of a gen, but with the introduction of each pokemon in its given gen, with the occasional update between generations.

They didn't build sword and shield and on the spot make up the movepool of 1000 pokemon.
In SwSh they made the movepool of the 100 or so that were developed, and occasionally added a new move to old ones.
During SM development, they made the movepool of these 100 or so.
During XY, of these 100.

Etc.
Looks pretty... logic to me.

When designing "Calyrex" moveset, they just went "Ok this is a psychic guy with a big head that draws his powers from faith of people and the land, let's give him the standard Psychic learnset with the generic psychic coverage that almost every psychic gets, some grass moves and some moves related to life and knighthood".
It's not as an obscene concept as you make it. You don't need to "cherrypick", rather start from generic moveset then add flavour moves.

Edit: I specifically mentioned "except gen 1 and 2" because "lol tauros learns ice beam" is a standard gen 1 issue where moves were given just for gameplay purposes and without much logic behind. Not a case lot of gen 1 and 2 pokes have "old gen only transfer moves", because lot of stuff that didnt make sense got removed going onwards with the generations.

Most of those flavor moves as you describe them, are actually random moves that could work with anything, and there's not a solid statement as to why it would be possible or not for said Pokémon to learn that move, so, you can go with it as filler. And there dozens of these moves in any Pokémon. Is there an actual, irrefutable argument as for why Tauros can or can not learn Ice Beam? No. A lot of Normal mons do, ok, thats all. A lot of normal mons learn electric moves and others dont; why can't Porygon learn Fire Blast? I'm pretty sure it could just use energy to produce fire, too, as he can produce Ice and Shock.

Like, can you really take every single example and go on a thesis like "oh, they can learn these 27 random moves because it makes absolute, 100% sense, and it would be inconcebible otherwise". But not, it's not inconceible for a lot of mons to learn or not to learn those moves; they simply exist. Like, can Purugly learn Bulldoze? Yes. And what if it couldnt? Yes too. And what about shadow ball? Yes. And what about non shadow ball? Yes. There's not an actual, hardcore thoughtfull explanation behind every move. Some of them are just there, thats all, and this makes sense not only with GF (because they are lazy af) but for any other company working on an RPG.

Im not telling you that they just press a button and random moves appears on the Pokémon. Im telling you that some of those moves are actually filler moves that dont have a solid background as to why the Pokémon can or cant learn them, they are just there, filling.

 

[AmbientDinosaur]

I assume Game Freak use premade templates of TM and tutor learnsets, and then cherrypick moves from there. Like, a bipedal pokémon gets a template that includes punching moves, but a piscine pokémon gets a template without them.

Level-up moves are likely hand-picked from the start, probably just adding an empty table template with a ballpark amount of level-up moves they feel the pokémon should have.

Also, based on Gen VIII level-up tables, GF greatly simplified the structure for level-up learnsets in SwSh. No more unusual level-up patterns, and offensive moves are sorted by base power, with status moves sprinkled in between.

 

[Sonikku A]

Through NYPC in Gen 2 Yanma gets Sweet Kiss, lol.

Most Gen 2 event mons had absurd move distributions
Oh Petal Dance, a high BP grass move?
Grass mons that can learn it from the event: Chikorita
None Grass mons: Psyduck, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Smoochum, Pichu
Like, wut?

 

[Pikachu315111]

So it swings its tail around...? I'm just having trouble visualising Seviper dancing.

Seviper are pretty nimble with their tail:

Also, nothing says that Swords Dance needs to be elaborate. I can imagine Swords Dance for Seviper being it coiling up and wiggling its tail around in the air (like a reverse cobra), contracting its body muscles to force the energy and venom to gather up into its tail.

Serperior can learn Swords Dance too, for the record

It ain't no slouch either:

Honestly I think the animators have a lot of fun animating the long serpent Pokemon because they can make them twist and turn in all sorts of interesting ways due to them pretty much just being a flexible tube.

There are more than 800 Pokémon. You can explain anything you want and it will make sense one way or the other; too much exceptions. Like Rapidash get access to SD because it has horns, or Serperior because its royal, or whatever you want because its blue and there are blue mons that learn that move...

Sure, there are over 800 Pokemon, but they didn't have to go over 800+ Pokemon movesets at the same time.

In Gen I they only had 151 Pokemon.
Gen II only 100 Pokmeon.
Gen III only 135.
etc., etc..

So in that regard, it's perfectly reasonable they assigned each Pokemon their movesets cause they only had to work in 100 batches at a time.

Then, when they make a new move, they probably think "okay, what Pokemon would logically learn this move" and see if they can fit it into an old Pokemon's moveset in someway. Sometimes they fit it in the level-up (maybe as a Level 1/Move Reminder exclusive), sometimes leave it as a TM/TR/Turor, or maybe make it an Egg Move (which could explain why sometimes a Pokemon gets an Egg Move that it has no possible way of learning. This idea also probably works with TMs/TRs and Tutors; after making the list thinking what Pokemon may get it.

Also, region's Pokedex isn't only the new Pokemon. After making a regional dex they probably give older Pokemon's movepools a quick lookover to see if maybe there isn't any changes that need to be made whether to improve upon it or for game balance reasons (last one notable as it explains why Pokemon learnsets change & shuffle levels sometimes).

Most Egg Moves they likely see what Pokemon the individual can breed with and going "hey, this could be an interesting move this Pokemon learns it wouldn't normally". Curious whether they do this with the Field Egg Group or just toss their hand in the air with that one singe Smeargle makes that a moot point.

Most Gen 2 event mons had absurd move distributions
Oh Petal Dance, a high BP grass move?
Grass mons that can learn it from the event: Chikorita
None Grass mons: Psyduck, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Smoochum, Pichu
Like, wut?

I can totally see the baby Pokemon just picking flower petals off of nearby flowers and throwing them in the air like confetti... then use their elemental powers to make them into an attack cause why not.

As for Psyduck... maybe it got confused and thought it was a Grass-type.

 

[Sonikku A]

I can totally see the baby Pokemon just picking flower petals off of nearby flowers and throwing them in the air like confetti... then use their elemental powers to make them into an attack cause why not.

As for Psyduck... maybe it got confused and thought it was a Grass-type.

Masuda's fav mon heavily featured in the anime. Mistaken to not be water

 

[Pikachu315111]

Masuda's fav mon heavily featured in the anime. Mistaken to not be water

No, Psyduck ITSELF got confused and thought it was Grass-type. Begins using its Psychic powers to move around leaves and petals thinking its using its Grass-type elemental power, somehow it learns Petal Dance doing this until likely one of the Baby Pokemon reminds it its a Water-type and promptly stops using its powers to bend reality. Obviously I'm joking around, no clue why Psyduck gets it aside it looking like getting Petal Dance was the theme of that event for some reason. Though it being Masuda's favorite/heavy presence in the anime is likely a reason why it was picked.