Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

Is strange, Shadow Ball is one of those TMs they like to give out like candy. Also Octillery can learn Energy Ball, the (former) Grass-type Shadow Ball. It's either an oversight or, with how much coverage it already gets, they figured that Shadow Ball either doesn't really help Octillery much or its to give some Types (namely Psychic and Ghost) a more guaranteed safer match-up as Octillery's other options to deal with them aren't as good as Shadow Ball. If we're to look at what moves Octillery has to handle every type:

Normal: None
Fighting: Psychic, Bounce
Flying: Ice Beam, Blizzard, Charge Beam, Rock Blast
Poison: Psychic, Mud Shot
Ground: Surf, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Blizzard, Energy Ball
Rock: Surf, Hydro Pump, Energy Ball, Flash Cannon
Bug: Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Rock Blast, Bounce
Ghost: Thief, Payback
Steel: Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Mud Shot
Grass: Ice Beam, Blizzard, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Signal Beam, Bounce, Sludge Wave, Sludge Bomb
Fire: Surf, Hydro Pump, Rock Blast, Mud Shot
Water: Energy Ball, Charge Beam
Electric: Mud Shot
Psychic: Signal Beam, Thief, Payback
Ice: Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Rock Blast, Flash Cannon
Dragon: Ice Beam, Blizzard
Dark: Signal Beam
Fairy: Sludge Wave, Sludge Bomb

While some options are better than others, Octillery is no one trick pony when it comes to coverage. Honestly it needs Focus Blast (or Aura Sphere) more than Shadow Ball so it can claim having a move to do super effective damage to every single type.
So... why the heck does Octillery lack Shadow Ball?
While I do agree that it’s a bit weird that Octillery doesn’t get Shadow Ball, I think it’s interesting to note that only seventeen Water-types, by my count, learn the move. This might sound like a lot, but it includes three legendaries, Frillish and Jellicent, and a bunch of Pokémon with non-Water-type evolutionary relatives and/or secondary typings which increase the likelihood of compatibility (e.g. Bibarel, Vaporeon, the Slowpoke family). Gorebyss gets it, but I feel like that’s meant to reflect the way its movepool diverges from Huntail’s.

From a brief look at its compatibility, it seems like Shadow Ball gets handed out to:
-lots of Normal, Psychic, Dark, and Ghost Pokémon
-a decent number of Poison, Bug, and Fairy Pokémon
-scattered Pokémon of other types

None of this exactly serves to ‘explain’ why Octillery can’t learn the move (especially since Corsola can lol), but it did make me realise that Shadow Ball isn’t as widely learnt as I thought, outside of certain types.
 
It’s a pretty well known fact (edit: or not, but my point still stands) that real-life bats are nearly blind, and primarily rely on “echolocation” in order to get from one place to another.

Not a single member of the Zubat or Woobat lines has access to Echoed Voice.

This one seems particularly odd to me, because it seems like it should be such an obvious connection. And the original Japanese name is just “Echo Voice”, so it’s not a translation issue like so many of these other examples. I can’t imagine what else it could possibly be.
 
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It’s a pretty well known fact that real-life bats are nearly blind, and primarily rely on “echolocation” in order to get from one place to another.

Not a single member of the Zubat or Woobat lines has access to Echoed Voice.

This one seems particularly odd to me, because it seems like it should be such an obvious connection. And the original Japanese name is just “Echo Voice”, so it’s not a translation issue like so many of these other examples. I can’t imagine what else it could possibly be.
They do use echolocation at night but actually the thing about them being blind is a myth and not actually true, just wanted to pop in and say that lel

I agree with the thing about echoed voice though like. Just another case of weird disconnects between Pokémon as animals and their moves
 

Pikachu315111

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Sheer Cold's Japanese name is Absolute Zero. So Regice is about 130 degrees too warm. /stupid logic
So Regice, a Pokemon made of ice, is not cold enough to do Sheer Cold/Absolute Zero yet Pokemon who can are:

A small fox which ancestors were Fire-types.
A dugong.
A shelled plesiosaur that gives people rides.
A wolf-cheetah hybrid that's the incarnation of the winds and aurora that's not even Ice-type. (though it is a Legendary)
A walrus throughout its lifespan.
An orca that's the embodiment of the oceans that's also not Ice-type. (though another Legendary)
An evergreen tree.
Polar bears with frozen snot and saliva.

But what doesn't learn it in addition to Regice are:

Living icebergs.
A ghost which turns creatures into ice sculptures.
An ice dragon that's spewing so much cold wind its freezing itself.

Eh, while talking about one OHKO move, might as well quickly look at the others:

Fissure: Okay, honestly any Pokemon that can do Earthquake and Magnitude probably also should be able to do Fissure. We have some odd inclusions mostly through breeding (Lapras, Wailmer, Spheal, Shellos; more Water-types then you would think) and Gen I TM (Charizard, Blastoise, Ekans family, Slowpoke family; oddly no Venusaur). A notable exclusion is Zygarde.

Guillotine: There's a bit of a misnomer here. It's name in Japanese is "Pincer Guillotine" so the Pokemon needs to have pincers in order to get it. Well, unless you're the Axew family, Pawniard family, and Kartana who get it despite not having pincers. So notable exclusions would be Scizor, Mawile, and Skorupi family.

Horn Drill: So, most Pokemon that get it makes sense. I say most because for some reason the Tyrunt family gets it (you'd think they would then give the Amaura family Sheer Cold to match). I suppose there aren't really any exclusions without stretching it.

Not a single member of the Zubat or Woobat lines has access to Echoed Voice.
It's especially odd for Woobat which could make use of it (as in they are a Special Attacker). It's funny as in the anime they were used to debut the move Round and how they use Round it looks like they're using echo location, lol.
 

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Ekans and Arbok don't naturally learn Poison Fang, they need to get it as an Egg Move from Seviper.

And no, Poison Fang wasn't a signature move for Seviper in Gen III, it was also given to the Zubat family.

And later on they gave it to the Nidoran female family (yet not the male for some reason), Venonat family, Skorupi family, Carvahna family, Alolan Grimer family, and Silvally. But no, don't give it to the other poisonous snake...
 
Guillotine: There's a bit of a misnomer here. It's name in Japanese is "Pincer Guillotine" so the Pokemon needs to have pincers in order to get it. Well, unless you're the Axew family, Pawniard family, and Kartana who get it despite not having pincers. So notable exclusions would be Scizor, Mawile, and Skorupi family.
.
It's not that they need pincers, it's that they can copy the motion. Pincers work not just by pinching, it's the cross section of the sharpened "blades". So the ones without literal pincers If you can cross 2 blades together with enough force, basically....kind of a similar situation with the attack X-Scissor.
Guillotine is usually shown in the anime with Bisharp as it crossing its arms in front of itself then doing the slash, though it's still kind of inconsistent.

So realistically this move should be open to a lot more Pokemon, anyone with some form of blade or access to x-scissor, but isn't. I guess in general they dont want the OHKO moves to go to a lot of pokemon (even though they suck). Scyther in particular probably doesnt get it just because it's considered Pinsir's move and that's held true enough though it usually isnt a counterpart anymore.

Axew's line however, there is no real way to interpret their usage of Guillotine in this way. Their blades are too static. It would have to be done in the more traditional fashion with their jaw-blades just cutting downward (or forward, i guess) with enough force on its own.
 
It's not that they need pincers, it's that they can copy the motion. Pincers work not just by pinching, it's the cross section of the sharpened "blades". So the ones without literal pincers If you can cross 2 blades together with enough force, basically....kind of a similar situation with the attack X-Scissor.
Guillotine is usually shown in the anime with Bisharp as it crossing its arms in front of itself then doing the slash, though it's still kind of inconsistent.

So realistically this move should be open to a lot more Pokemon, anyone with some form of blade or access to x-scissor, but isn't. I guess in general they dont want the OHKO moves to go to a lot of pokemon (even though they suck). Scyther in particular probably doesnt get it just because it's considered Pinsir's move and that's held true enough though it usually isnt a counterpart anymore.

Axew's line however, there is no real way to interpret their usage of Guillotine in this way. Their blades are too static. It would have to be done in the more traditional fashion with their jaw-blades just cutting downward (or forward, i guess) with enough force on its own.
Well, wouldn't it be hard to justify Scizor having Guillotine, thus why Scyther doesn't have it?
 
Weeeeeeell remember there's the fact Gliscor didn't exist back when Gligar had was given Guillotine in the moveset :)
Haha of course, that’s the real reason, if we’re being honest. I’d point out, though, that unlike some cases, where the evolution doesn’t learn the move on its own and can only learn it via the pre-evolution, Gliscor actually has Guillotine in its level-up movepool.

(Then again, we all know the famous example of Alakazam learning Iron Tail by TM despite having no tail)
 
Well, wouldn't it be hard to justify Scizor having Guillotine, thus why Scyther doesn't have it?
They could both have it. It is still called Pincer Guillotine in japan and things with Pincers still get it. And Scizor has pincers, clearly. Bisharp & Kartana just shows that things with Blades can still get it as well.
 
They could both have it. It is still called Pincer Guillotine in japan and things with Pincers still get it. And Scizor has pincers, clearly. Bisharp & Kartana just shows that things with Blades can still get it as well.
I figured Scizor's claws, while sharp, are perhaps a bit too small and awkward to do the move. (though Mega Scizor could definitely justify the move)

Then again Gligar gets the move, so... for all I know Game Freak sticks a bunch of Pokemon names on a board and tosses darts at them to decide if they'll get certain moves.
 
I figured Scizor's claws, while sharp, are perhaps a bit too small and awkward to do the move. (though Mega Scizor could definitely justify the move)

Then again Gligar gets the move, so... for all I know Game Freak sticks a bunch of Pokemon names on a board and tosses darts at them to decide if they'll get certain moves.
Scizor's claws are pretty big


They're bigger than its head, even. Probably bigger than Crawdaunt's claws or Durant's mandibles, if I had to guess.
 

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Gourgeist:
X & OR: Singing in eerie voices, they wander town streets on the night of the new moon. Anyone who hears their song is cursed.
Y & AS: It enwraps its prey in its hairlike arms. It sings joyfully as it observes the suffering of its prey.
Guess who doesn't learn Sing, Curse (naturally), Perish Song, Wrap, or Bind. Heck, it doesn't really learn that many noise moves or vine moves (it doesn't learn Power Whip either).
 
How do I teach Jynx mega kick as I have leaf green (cartridge)
Will transfer it up to gen 7 once I get the required hardware/games
 
How do I teach Jynx mega kick as I have leaf green (cartridge)
Will transfer it up to gen 7 once I get the required hardware/games
Just past Mt. Moon are a pair of move tutors. (Black Belts) One teaches Mega Punch while the other teaches Mega Kick, but they can only teach it once. If you haven't had the Mega Kick tutor teach the move already, just bring Jynx along and agree to have him teach it Mega Kick. It'll transfer... though why you would want to teach a Physical Normal move to the much more Specially oriented Jynx is beyond me. (you could also circumvent most of this via the Virtual Console gen 1 games)

Also, this is the wrong thread to be asking such a question. Best ask in the Orange Islands SQSR thread in the future.
 
Because it cant learn it outside of gen 3 right? Hello exclusive move
As Detective Barricade pointed out, you can teach Jynx both Mega Punch and Mega Kick in G1 Virtual Console, where you can glitch for extra TMs and can transfer directly to Bank. (And I agree with him about teaching Jynx that move, might as well go for Seismic Toss or Metronome)
 

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