Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)

[Anti]

Yeah, I'm fairly certain Tangrowth can avoid the 2HKO from Aqua Tail. :)

That was in reference to Ice Punch vs. Aqua Tail lol

Also, as a side note Tyranitar has had Ice Fang all throughout DP and it never saw any use...does anybody really think that the extra 10BP of Ice Punch will change this?

My response mostly stemmed from me theoreymonning a lot with an Ice Punch CB Tyranitar a few months ago before realising it didn't actually get Ice Punch in Emerald :'(

Yes, it makes a significant difference:
403 Attack Tyranitar Ice Fang vs 420/368 Hippwodon (*1.5 *2): 37% - 43%
403 Attack Tyranitar Ice Punch vs 420/368 Hippwodon (*1.5 *2): 42% - 50%

3HKO now. Hippowdon gets hit on the way in and can either Slack Off stall you (crit, freeze), take another hit (and die next turn) and EQ you or roar you out after a second hit, severely weakened at ~25%.

more importantly!
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 420/368 Hippwodon (*1.5 *2): 51% - 60%!

fuck Ice Punch, Tangrowth takes the same from Stone Edge. Here's to the new CBTar moveset of Crunch / Pursuit / Stone Edge / Aqua Tail!

edit: just for kicks
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 354/383 Gliscor (*1.5 *2): 58% - 68%
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 384/372 Donphan (*1.5 *2): 55% - 65%
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 354/548 Steelix (*1.5 *2): 40% - 48% - who uses max/max Steelix though

woo! nuts to Earthquake, metagross/jirachi can eat Crunch.
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 386/248 Heatran (*1.5 *2): 82% - 96%
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 282/176 Lucario (*1.5): 78% - 92%
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 324/266 Magnezone (*1.5): 45% - 53% good, but what's it going to do to you?

overhypingaqua tail tyranitar is the new standard
further overhypingyou heard it here first

 

[Gorgoroth]

Does Stone edge really hit Tangrowth for the same? Yeah it does just looked it up, plus you have the ever present crit hax chance.

 

[Maestro Arena]

So, anyone knows if Rapid Spin + Knock Off in Tentacruel is legal?

 

[Syberia]

That was in reference to Ice Punch vs. Aqua Tail lol

My response mostly stemmed from me theoreymonning a lot with an Ice Punch CB Tyranitar a few months ago before realising it didn't actually get Ice Punch in Emerald :'(

Yes, it makes a significant difference:
403 Attack Tyranitar Ice Fang vs 420/368 Hippwodon (*1.5 *2): 37% - 43%
403 Attack Tyranitar Ice Punch vs 420/368 Hippwodon (*1.5 *2): 42% - 50%

3HKO now. Hippowdon gets hit on the way in and can either Slack Off stall you (crit, freeze), take another hit (and die next turn) and EQ you or roar you out after a second hit, severely weakened at ~25%.

more importantly!
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 420/368 Hippwodon (*1.5 *2): 51% - 60%!

fuck Ice Punch, Tangrowth takes the same from Stone Edge. Here's to the new CBTar moveset of Crunch / Pursuit / Stone Edge / Aqua Tail!

edit: just for kicks
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 354/383 Gliscor (*1.5 *2): 58% - 68%
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 384/372 Donphan (*1.5 *2): 55% - 65%
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 354/548 Steelix (*1.5 *2): 40% - 48% - who uses max/max Steelix though

woo! nuts to Earthquake, metagross/jirachi can eat Crunch.
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 386/248 Heatran (*1.5 *2): 82% - 96%
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 282/176 Lucario (*1.5): 78% - 92%
403 Attack Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs 324/266 Magnezone (*1.5): 45% - 53% good, but what's it going to do to you?

overhypingaqua tail tyranitar is the new standard
further overhypingyou heard it here first

If you recalculate those for Jolly DD + LO Tar, you'll find that Aqua Tail is an easy 2HKO on both Gliscor or Hippowdon switching in on the DD. What's more, Rock/Water/Ground provides perfect coverage with three moves, as does Dark/Ground/Ice for those who are fond of Ice Punch. Ice Punch will also 2HKO Hippowdon with LO, and has the advantage of OHKOing Gliscor.

For those of you still living in the past who believe Garchomp is not uber, a DD Ice Punch has a > 50% chance to OHKO 6/0 Garchomp even through Yache Berry.

Adamant Leftovers Tar has a greater than 50% chance to 2HKO Hippowdon with Aqua Tail after a DD, and will still always 2HKO Gliscor. Stealth Rock or any prior damage means it always 2HKOs Hippowdon. Adamant Ice Punch will almost always OHKO Gliscor with Leftovers as well.

 

[Anti]

If you recalculate those for Jolly DD + LO Tar, you'll find that Aqua Tail is an easy 2HKO on both Gliscor or Hippowdon switching in on the DD.

Yep, wouldn't be surprised by that at all. Life Orb easily makes up for Jolly's lack of Attack boost. All the more awesome, I'm really exited for this kick in Tyranitar's movepool. Of all things that learn it now and of all things Tyranitar could've (realistically) learnt with Platinum, Tyranitar got a real kick out of Aqua Tail.

Adamant Leftovers Tar has a greater than 50% chance to 2HKO Hippowdon with Aqua Tail after a DD, and will still always 2HKO Gliscor. Stealth Rock or any prior damage means it always 2HKOs Hippowdon.

CB Tar = DD Tar with one DD (as I would assume you know), so the calcs I did are the same.

 

[MKDSJedi]

So, anyone knows if Rapid Spin + Knock Off in Tentacruel is legal?

Posssibly. For the last time, WAIT AND SEE!
If you run both, remember you then can't run Toxic Spikes without foregoing an attack move.

 

[gorm]

yeah seriously i dont understand why you would ever run 2. it's already easy enough to wall cruel with just one..

 

[Chou Toshio]

Damn it, looks like Crobat only has the same 2 tutor moves (from 212) as golbat, so still no knock off/trick :(

BTW Gormenghast, Gengar's Platinum dex entry actually says:

kurayami ni ukabu egao no shoutai ha hito ni noroi wo kakete yorokobu genga- da.

The identity of the smile in the darkness is gengar, the one who is delighted by casting curses on people.

. . . I think. >.>

 

[Anti]

Reckon we'll see Superpower on Hippowdon or Donphan (despite EQ) for a pretty good shot at OHKOing 252 HP T-Tar?

 

[Chou Toshio]

IMO, Earthquake and Fighting have such similar coverage though that those pokemon would only be carrying that move for tyranitar . . . >.>

 

[Anti]

that was the question, would it be seen on either for just Tyranitar? 's a long shot, definitely wouldn't be common.

 

[JohtoPro]

Any word on Superpower Typhlosion?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Reckon we'll see Superpower on Hippowdon or Donphan (despite EQ) for a pretty good shot at OHKOing 252 HP T-Tar?

Why anyone would keep TTar in vs. the hippo is beyond me...

148 Atk EVs is all that's needed to OHKO a Max HP/no Def Tar with Superpower.

 

[PokeReaver]

Haven't read through the entire thread(too little time) but...

Lucario+Ice Punch+Scarf=Skymin counter?

 

[Anti]

Why anyone would keep TTar in vs. the hippo is beyond me...

Well, for example, so it can beat Ice Punch CB Tar. CB Tar 3HKOs with Ice Punch, Hippo can OHKO with Superpower.

Then again with any luck we'll be seeing Aqua Tail Tyranitars.

rather absurd, I know. completely nonsensical, no.

wouldn't Lucario be like OHKO'd by a LO Air Slash from Skymin?

 

[Drakhun]

So, what new tricks do the legendary birds get? Can someone check?

 

[Lee]

Lucario+Ice Punch+Scarf=Skymin counter?

I doubt that, what with getting OHKO'd by Specs Air Slash and taking 85% from a Specs Seed Flare and all.

 

[PokeReaver]

I doubt that, what with getting OHKO'd by Specs Air Slash and taking 85% from a Specs Seed Flare and all.

Scarf'ed Lucario outspeeds Skymin with a +speed nature.

 

[Maestro Arena]

Posssibly. For the last time, WAIT AND SEE!
If you run both, remember you then can't run Toxic Spikes without foregoing an attack move.

Surf + Toxic Spikes + Knock Off + Rapid Spin, Mr. Genius.

 

[Aldaron]

Sure, I agree with your statement that some Pokemon will use Choice Scarf to beat non Scarf Shaymin.

Got anything else to add?

 

[Lee]

Scarf'ed Lucario outspeeds Skymin with a +speed nature.

The thread is entitled "Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)." I'm not sure why you'd engage in a competitive discussion if you don't know what a counter is.

 

[PakGamer]

Jeez signal beam is gonna mess up celebi pretty bad....
Starmie, Vaporeon, Zapdos, Jolteon, Cresselia otherwise had problems with leech seed celebi as it could just stall even with ice beam plus it had t-wave.. now they can own it in one turn.
Though I don't see any other reason to put sb on any one of them... maybe it won't make a difference at all :F
On a side note.... choice specs zapdos looks pretty damn awesome right now :D

 

[Deck Knight]

I predict a disturbance in the force...

It appears Poliwrath will now be the go-to counter for Tyranitar even more than before.

I hope Poliwrath gets Superpower. It might put it out of UU, but BD'd Superpower is insane, even if it reduces your attack to only +5.

Speaking of Wrath, is there any way to get confirmation on its tutor moves?

What does everyone think of Blaziken? Superpower is a poor man's Close Combat, I guess, but it is much better than Sky Uppercut.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I predict a disturbance in the force...

It appears Poliwrath will now be the go-to counter for Tyranitar even more than before.

I hope Poliwrath gets Superpower. It might put it out of UU, but BD'd Superpower is insane, even if it reduces your attack to only +5.

Speaking of Wrath, is there any way to get confirmation on its tutor moves?

What does everyone think of Blaziken? Superpower is a poor man's Close Combat, I guess, but it is much better than Sky Uppercut.

Er... Wouldn't Brick Break be better and still ohko?

 

[guraboy]

does anyone know if it gets superpower from the tutors?

all i know for sure is im going to be spending a lot of time in the underground :|

edit : ^ how would brick break be better?