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Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)

I'm still working out the kinks around EVs, but here is a good Rotom for a Hail Team, where Blizzard's perfect accuracy and synergy with Electric attacks works very well. Where Froslass gets STAB on Blizzard, Rotom retains the fighting immunity without compouding weaknesses to Fire, and, as a bonus, it resists Steel making it a good answer to Metagross. Also helps out Starein with an Electric resistance, and Abomasnow with a Bug resistance.

Rotom-Fridge @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/88 Spe/48 SDef
~ Blizzard
~ Charge Beam
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk

Alright, so the deal here is Fridge Rotom is pretty much Spiritomb's equal in defensive power. The 88 Speed allows you to outspeed Scizor, and with high HP.Defense investment, Bullet Punch is rendered ineffective. Otherwise this is basically the Regice set put on Rotom, the idea being to use Charge Beam to increase SA while tanking off damage. With perfect accuracy in Hail, Blizzard becomes quite lethal after an SA Boost.
 
As he himself said this is the only Rotom who can hit Heatran hard.
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Any Rotom can hit Heatran hard, they just have to run HP Ground. Not only does it hit harder, it is also more accurate and has better coverage alongside Rotom's STABs.

Rotom-Fridge @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/88 Spe/48 SDef
~ Blizzard
~ Charge Beam
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk

Alright, so the deal here is Fridge Rotom is pretty much Spiritomb's equal in defensive power. The 88 Speed allows you to outspeed Scizor, and with high HP.Defense investment, Bullet Punch is rendered ineffective. Otherwise this is basically the Regice set put on Rotom, the idea being to use Charge Beam to increase SA while tanking off damage. With perfect accuracy in Hail, Blizzard becomes quite lethal after an SA Boost.
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The problem with this set as far as Scizor is concerned is that it doesn't even need to run Pursuit or Night Slash to kill you. You don't even start to threaten Scizor until at least two special attack raises (possibly three), whereas:

+4 Adamant max Attack LO Scizor's Bullet Punch: 52.96 - 62.17%

So after two Swords Dances Scizor is guaranteed to 2HKO with Bullet Punch in the Hail, whilst it Roosts off the Charge Beams and residual damage before going for the kill immediately afterwards, and before getting hit again. If you want to counter Scizor with Rotom, you must go with either Will-o-wisp, Reflect or Overheat. Preferably the latter.
 
With perfect accuracy in Hail, Blizzard becomes quite lethal after an SA Boost.
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My main concern here is that Fridge-Rotom actually isn't overly keen on the Hail at all. With only 50 base HP, he doesn't really enjoy losing his Leftovers in exchange for increasing accuracy on a non-STAB move (a move that you probably already have on your team on 3 or 4 different Pokes).

My other problem is that, unlike Spiritomb, he is complete and utter Pursuit fodder for the vast majority of Pursuit users. Tyranitar, Snorlax and Weavile certainly have no problem switching in.

I just don't know how effective this will be.
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
Any Rotom can hit Heatran hard, they just have to run HP Ground. Not only does it hit harder, it is also more accurate and has better coverage alongside Rotom's STABs.
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Yes thats true, but where would you put HP Ground on Rotom? HP Grounds only use is to hit Heatran harder, but all other steels and Fire pokemon(only our little steel trapper friend is hit harder with it thanks to it elec typing) Are hit harder by STAB T-Bolt if thier second type does not resist it.(HP Ground 70BP*2=140BP, T-Bolt 95BP*1,5=142,5BP) As for Hydro Pump missing, Heatrans main attack,Fire Blast has the same miss chance and other things won't OHKO a 100% Rotom(not even sure if Fire Blast KOs, but its most likely) if its Scrafed.
 
with the anti-spin cut rotom, if forretress is the last thing you're worried about for spinning, why not try hp fire? it'll decimate due to the 4x weak, and as you said, forry can't do anything to you. personally, i'd go with something like:

cut rotom @ leftovers
calm, same evs
thunderbolt
leaf storm
hp fire
reflect

loses will o wisp for team support, but gains ability to destroy the last viable spinner against it. if your opponent no longer has a spinner, your job will suddenly become much easier.
 
Urza said:
with the anti-spin cut rotom, if forretress is the last thing you're worried about for spinning, why not try hp fire? it'll decimate due to the 4x weak, and as you said, forry can't do anything to you. personally, i'd go with something like:

cut rotom @ leftovers
calm, same evs
thunderbolt
leaf storm
hp fire
reflect/W-o-W

loses will o wisp for team support, but gains ability to destroy the last viable spinner against it. if your opponent no longer has a spinner, your job will suddenly become much easier.
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Adding W-o-W as a second choose over Reflect and then it can work.(Both do nearly the same, one lowers the attack one poke, the other lowers the damage done to the team), This set hits Scizor hard too, but other Steels are better hit with T-Bolt(It adds a nice way to hit Grass types, that wall this set) And the best thing is the grin on the Cut Forme:naughty:
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
Any Rotom can hit Heatran hard, they just have to run HP Ground. Not only does it hit harder, it is also more accurate and has better coverage alongside Rotom's STABs.



The problem with this set as far as Scizor is concerned is that it doesn't even need to run Pursuit or Night Slash to kill you. You don't even start to threaten Scizor until at least two special attack raises (possibly three), whereas:

+4 Adamant max Attack LO Scizor's Bullet Punch: 52.96 - 62.17%

So after two Swords Dances Scizor is guaranteed to 2HKO with Bullet Punch in the Hail, whilst it Roosts off the Charge Beams and residual damage before going for the kill immediately afterwards, and before getting hit again. If you want to counter Scizor with Rotom, you must go with either Will-o-wisp, Reflect or Overheat. Preferably the latter.
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LO Scizor is losing 6% HP to Hail every round, isn't doing damage while it Swords Dances, and Charge Beam eventually catches up to it, especially if it wastes time Roosting, which is nothing more than allowing Rotom another chance at an SA boost. Pursuit users are a much bigger threat, but that applies to every Rotom, not just the Fridge.

Charge Beam after 1 SA Boost to 0/0 LO Scizor:

36-43%. Hail does 6%, Life Orb does 10%. Best case scenario: Life Orb recoil knocks out a +4 Scizor. Scizor has to eat at least 2 Charge Beams, assuming it Swords Dances as Rotom switches in. Not to mention that Scizor requires all those modifers to 2HKO Rotom. If you run Leftovers instead of Life Orb, you need 3 Swords Dances to 2HKO Rotom.

So really, only the glass cannon LO Scizor beats that Rotom until Scizor users decide to run Pursuit or Night Slash over Brick Break/Superpower for their third attacking move. In a neutral situation where Rotom and Scizor come in at the same time, Rotom wins. In a situation where Rotom switches in on anything other than Night Slash or Swords Dance, Rotom wins. It loses to one specific Scizor in one specific situation (or if Scizor has Pursuit/Night Slash, the move most likely to be cast aside for Bullet Punch on the old Swords Dance set)

The Rotom is also in the context of a Hail Team. the only types that resist Ice are Water, Ice, and Steel. Electric STAB keeps waters out, most of the Hail team resists Ice, and Steel attacks do jack to Rotom.
 
One thing probably no one saw is that Meganium now is probably a better Swords Dance user than Venusaur now.Seed Bomb and Outrage greatly improves the attack options(Venusaur gets both too and both have the same base attack,plus Venusaur gets Sleep Powder,while Meganium have to rely on Grasswhristle...but Meganium gets better defenses than Venusaur,and makes a SD Synthesis set better)

I would not say better.It's more like your option:do you need a Sleep inducing or a bulky Swords Dancer with a recovery move?
 
Deck Knight said:
LO Scizor is losing 6% HP to Hail every round, isn't doing damage while it Swords Dances, and Charge Beam eventually catches up to it, especially if it wastes time Roosting, which is nothing more than allowing Rotom another chance at an SA boost. Pursuit users are a much bigger threat, but that applies to every Rotom, not just the Fridge.

Charge Beam after 1 SA Boost to 0/0 LO Scizor:

36-43%. Hail does 6%, Life Orb does 10%. Best case scenario: Life Orb recoil knocks out a +4 Scizor. Scizor has to eat at least 2 Charge Beams, assuming it Swords Dances as Rotom switches in. Not to mention that Scizor requires all those modifers to 2HKO Rotom. If you run Leftovers instead of Life Orb, you need 3 Swords Dances to 2HKO Rotom.

So really, only the glass cannon LO Scizor beats that Rotom until Scizor users decide to run Pursuit or Night Slash over Brick Break/Superpower for their third attacking move. In a neutral situation where Rotom and Scizor come in at the same time, Rotom wins. In a situation where Rotom switches in on anything other than Night Slash or Swords Dance, Rotom wins. It loses to one specific Scizor in one specific situation (or if Scizor has Pursuit/Night Slash, the move most likely to be cast aside for Bullet Punch on the old Swords Dance set)

The Rotom is also in the context of a Hail Team. the only types that resist Ice are Water, Ice, and Steel. Electric STAB keeps waters out, most of the Hail team resists Ice, and Steel attacks do jack to Rotom.
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Okay fair enough, but that is just one build of Scizor. What if it is running Iron Plate instead of Life Orb (not such a crazy option for Scizor anymore), or HP / Special Defense EVs over Speed (arguably more useful for priority Scizor)?

Plus you can't ignore the accuracy of Charge Beam, and the fact that it only raises special attack 70% of the time. Scizor could very well end up killing you with only 30-40% net damage inflicted overall. Therefore this Rotom is not a reliable answer to Scizor by any stretch of the imagination, even those that lack an effective move.
 
M BLADE said:
One thing probably no one saw is that Meganium now is probably a better Swords Dance user than Venusaur now.Seed Bomb and Outrage greatly improves the attack options(Venusaur gets both too and both have the same base attack,plus Venusaur gets Sleep Powder,while Meganium have to rely on Grasswhristle...but Meganium gets better defenses than Venusaur,and makes a SD Synthesis set better)

I would not say better.It's more like your option:do you need a Sleep inducing or a bulky Swords Dancer with a recovery move?
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Venesaur also has synthesis >.> Not to mention Vensaur is bulky too.
 
M BLADE said:
I know that Venusaur also gets it...but Meganium is better at that exactly for the greater defenses it has.
Too bad Meganium can't learn Spore...he looks capable of it...
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Greater defenses? I'd rather lose those 17 BP for Sleep powder, Leafstorm coming off of base 100 sp.atk rather than 83, and curse.
 
That's why I'd keep at least reflect or WOW on rotom for getting ride of pursuit.

My heat rotom didn't faced a Ttar yet, so I can't really tell if i can manage to hurt him or not.
If I remenber well, they are both slower than Rotom, so a WOW can cripple them and protect rotom from being killed right? in addition with reflect.

Damage calculation should be done for leaf storm against Ttar.
But the idea is good Urza, I'm gonna try this.
 
jujuomi said:
Greater defenses? I'd rather lose those 17 BP for Sleep powder, Leafstorm coming off of base 100 sp.atk rather than 83, and curse.
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But i'm saying as a Swords Dance user...overall,Venusaur is still better
Other one:Gunk Shot Toxicroak is insanely powerful.It can take bulky waters out like no one thanks to it's water immunity.Those it can't take with it(steel,huh)Cross Chop is there.Not to say Sucker Punch to punish faster psychic pokes
 
Would this Blaziken set be viable?

Blaziken@Life Orb
Naive/Hasty Nature
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Speed, 200 Sp. Atk, 56 Atk (I'm not really good at setting EVs to outspeed specific pogeys so bear with that.)
~Superpower
~Fire Blast
~ThunderPunch/Filler
~Vacuum Wave/ThunderPunch/Filler

Basically follows Infernapes wall-breaking footsteps. 276 Attack is enough to OHKO 252 HP/252 Def Bliss (does 716 min) and Fire Blast is a guaranteed OHKO on Skarm whatever your EVs are. 0 Attack EVs with a neutral nature is 276 Attack so you could put the Attack EV's into Special Attack. ThunderPunch is there to hit the bulky Waters such as Suicune, Gyarados, and Milotic. Vacuum Wave is there to bypass it's (slightly) horrible Speed. I'll go run some damage calcs with ThunderPunch on the bulky Waters and will edit this post. Thoughts?

ThunderPunch on 252 HP/252 Def Suicune (290 Attack) = 115 Minimum-136 Maximum. 4HKO-5HK0.

ThunderPunch on 216 HP/176 Def Gyarados (290 Attack Intimidate taken into acount) = 234 Minimum-275 Maximum. 2HKO.

ThunderPunch on 216 HP/176 Def Gyarados (290 Attack no Intimidate) = 348 Minimum-409 Maximum. ~25% Chance to OHKO.

ThunderPunch on 124 HP/252 Def Milotic (290 Attack) = 146 Minimum-172 Maximum. 3HKO, 2HKO with SR.

That info doesn't make it too promising =/
 
Dear Lord I love Trick Claydol. The Tutors have been very kind to this fine fellow. I've been running this set:

Claydol @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 232 Atk/216 Spe/60 HP
~ Trick
~ Stealth Rock
~ Explosion
~ Zen Headbutt

Alright, so the deal here is with CHoice Scar,f, you have 396 Speed, so you should be able to put SR down before anything without boosted speed. You can Trick walls later to finish them. Zen Headbutt scored a guarenteed OHKO on Gengar, and the only variant you really have to watch out for is Modest Scarfgar, who has about a 49% chance of KO'ing you with Shadow Ball. Sashgar runs the risk of being flinched. And of course, a fast Explosion never hurt anyone.
 
Milotic_123 said:
Would this Blaziken set be viable?

Blaziken@Life Orb
Naive/Hasty Nature
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Speed, 200 Sp. Atk, 56 Atk (I'm not really good at setting EVs to outspeed specific pogeys so bear with that.)
~Superpower
~Fire Blast
~ThunderPunch/Filler
~Vacuum Wave/ThunderPunch/Filler

Basically follows Infernapes wall-breaking footsteps. 276 Attack is enough to OHKO 252 HP/252 Def Bliss (does 716 min) and Fire Blast is a guaranteed OHKO on Skarm whatever your EVs are. 0 Attack EVs with a neutral nature is 276 Attack so you could put the Attack EV's into Special Attack. ThunderPunch is there to hit the bulky Waters such as Suicune, Gyarados, and Milotic. Vacuum Wave is there to bypass it's (slightly) horrible Speed. I'll go run some damage calcs with ThunderPunch on the bulky Waters and will edit this post. Thoughts?
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I would simply use Superpower to replace that SubPunch Blaziken set from a while back. Besides, the attack drop makes Thunderpunch much less attractive afterwards.

Blaziken@Life Orb
Rash; 60 Atk, 196 Speed, 252 Sp.Atk

HP Grass
Fire Blast
Superpower
Vacuum Wave

-Fire Blast will hit hard coming off of Blaziken's 349 Sp.Atk, while any bulky waters not named Milotic or Suicune will have difficulty shrugging off HP Grass. Superpower provides a powerful, physical fighting attack to get rid of the likes of Blissey, Heatran, etc. Vacuum Wave serves as some nice priority.

-EVs generate max sp.atk with HP Grass IVs, 245 speed for outpacing 244 and below trying to outspeed Tyranitar, and the remaining 60 go to boosting Superpower's strength on random foes.
 
Spin Rotom needs more love:

Rotom-s @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 SDef/4 Spd --
Substitute
Discharge
Air Slash
WoW/Shadow Ball

It's been doing great, as a wall and a paraflincher. Yeah I know, electrics wall without Shadow Ball, but you can paralyze the offensive Zapdoses and burn the defensive ones. Jolteon can get you with a sweeping Shadow Ball set but who cares about Jolteon. You actually have an easier time with Magnezone if you pick WoW as Shadow Ball isn't doing anything to it Discharge won't.

Sure it doesn't have Serene Grace but unlike Skymin it's bulky and unlike Togekiss it can take a physical hit. Plus, it's a fan, so it's cooler.
 
sanjay120 said:
Spin Rotom needs more love:

Rotom-s @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 SDef/4 Spd --
Substitute
Discharge
Air Slash
WoW/Shadow Ball

It's been doing great, as a wall and a paraflincher. Yeah I know, electrics wall without Shadow Ball, but you can paralyze the offensive Zapdoses and burn the defensive ones. Jolteon can get you with a sweeping Shadow Ball set but who cares about Jolteon. You actually have an easier time with Magnezone if you pick WoW as Shadow Ball isn't doing anything to it Discharge won't.

Sure it doesn't have Serene Grace but unlike Skymin it's bulky and unlike Togekiss it can take a physical hit. Plus, it's a fan, so it's cooler.
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Togekiss can't take physical hits...? 85 HP and 95 Def is pretty bulky I think, its even if not better than 50/107 from Rotom.

But anyways, Spin Rotom's coolness aside, I like this set. I'd probably use WoW over Shadow Ball too, as it probably is the more useful option. I may try this set soon, as I'm trying to find which Rotom I like best. Though, would 252 Sp.Def really be preferable? I mean, you could always make it just a bit faster to outrun adamant Ttar to burn it before it deals a devastating blow to you. Though that's just my preferance I guess.
 
I must be thinking of Gardevoir. I always get them confused as special tanks.

You can make it faster, I don't know what it can and should be outspeeding so I was lazy on the EVs.
 
sorry im new to all the platinum stuff
how has it affected the metagame?

A few points i had in mind:

1. why is skymin not uber? 80% SpDef drop and 60% Flinch doesnt sound so pleasing when it is so fast.
What are some reliable counters to it in both OU and Ubers?
2. is there now more need for physical walls for the 50 outragers out there? including Dialga and Palkia in Ubers
3. Can Anything Stop Nasty Plot Darkrai?
4. Is Salamence officially the best Physical Sweeper in OU now that it has the DD-Outrage Combo, and consequently, is Dragonite out of a job?

personally, i feel like keeping Dragonite cus its a solid counter to Skymin, and it can pull off dragon dances easier due to its bulkiness and better equiped with a Yache Berry. Salamence, even with Intimidate I dont think can take too many hits
 
xxflyingsolo07xx said:
sorry im new to all the platinum stuff
how has it affected the metagame?

A few points i had in mind:

1. why is skymin not uber? 80% SpDef drop and 60% Flinch doesnt sound so pleasing when it is so fast.
What are some reliable counters to it in both OU and Ubers?
Registeel with a 120 atk/252 hp/136 spD careful spread can 1HKO skymin with ice punch after SR damage and survive a specs earth power (even modest). If it's not specs, Zapdos and Blissey w/ Ice Beam can counter it. Timid scarftran is a good counter as long as you don't switch in on earth power. Ice sharders such as Mamoswine and Weavile revenge kill it with ease.
I think its too early in the metagame to make a decision on whether or not Skymin is uber or OU. It may become uber in the future, or it may not, only time will tell.
 2. is there now more need for physical walls for the 50 outragers out there? including Dialga and Palkia in Ubers
Not unless it has STAB
3. Can Anything Stop Nasty Plot Darkrai?
Scarf Primeape with Vital Spirit is a 100% NP Darkrai counter. but its pretty useless in ubers other than that.
4. Is Salamence officially the best Physical Sweeper in OU now that it has the DD-Outrage Combo, and consequently, is Dragonite out of a job?
There is no "best" physical sweeper. You can't compare it with stuff like Lucario and Mamoswine. Dragonite is basically obsolete as far as sweeping goes, but it can counter skymin more reliably than salamence assuming no HP ice, thanks to inner focus. Dragonite also has support moves that Salamence doesn't like Heal bell, Safeguard, and Light Screen.

personally, i feel like keeping Dragonite cus its a solid counter to Skymin, and it can pull off dragon dances easier due to its bulkiness and better equiped with a Yache Berry. Salamence, even with Intimidate I dont think can take too many hits
Bulkymence is bulkier than Bulkydos so I don't know why you'd say it can't take many hits. Also remember, Dragonite has lower base HP than salamence, slightly offsetting the higher spD and def
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