Pokemon Sun and Moon Demo Datamine + Full Game Leaks Collection (Read the OP)

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It's not incomplete, at least as far as the Dex is concerned. Odds are that Wishiwashi's already so large that they didn't feel the need to make it bigger in its Totem form (my guess is that it will just always be in its School Form, not reverting even after heavy damage).
But it does have a different Totem sprite that's not in the datamine.
 
Bulbapedia is thinking the same way and the intro to the totem fight in an earlier trailer shows it in school form at the start and it doesn't look bigger than the standard school form
Yep. It seems it is the exception to the rule.
But it does have a different Totem sprite that's not in the datamine.
No, it doesn't, really. We see it appear in the overworld at its regular (albeit still massive) size, but that is only missing from the datamine in the same way that all other overworld models that were not used in the demo are missing from the datamine.

And even if the "Totem Aura" form is seemingly missing, that aura seems like it might be part of the animation, not something inherent to the model.

Finally, as I said before, the general consensus among those I've talked to is that it will forgo the aura buff for a perma-School Form. I'm sure that we have the complete image index, and people are just blowing this thing a bit out of proportion.
 
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Finally, as I said before, the general consensus among those I've talked to is that it will forgo the aura buff for a perma-School Form.
Unlikely imo. The main site is very specific when mentioning Totem Pokemon in that they're all enveloped in a special aura. So it stands to reason that the pokemon has to either fit that mold or it simply isn't a Totem Pokemon. If anything, I think the Aura-buff is the reason why it won't revert back to its original form ( the battle against it would be honestly super lame if it did ).
 
Unlikely imo. The main site is very specific when mentioning Totem Pokemon in that they're all enveloped in a special aura. So it stands to reason that the pokemon has to either fit that mold or it simply isn't a Totem Pokemon. If anything, I think the Aura-buff is the reason why it won't revert back to its original form ( the battle against it would be honestly super lame if it did ).
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but that is what I meant. I was saying that it wouldn't get the stat buff, just the perma-Schooling. Again, sorry for any confusion :)
 

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Bulbapedia is thinking the same way and the intro to the totem fight in an earlier trailer shows it in school form at the start and it doesn't look bigger than the standard school form
Wishiwashi starts as its big form anyway, and goes little when it goes under 50% HP. Whether or not that mechanic stays true in the totem fight we don't know.

But it does have a different Totem sprite that's not in the datamine.
Could have been one of the black boxes I guess?

No, it doesn't, really. We see it appear in the overworld at its regular (albeit still massive) size, but that is only missing from the datamine in the same way that all other overworld models that were not used in the demo are missing from the datamine.

And even if the "Totem Aura" form is seemingly missing, that aura seems like it might be part of the animation, not something inherent to the model.

Finally, as I said before, the general consensus among those I've talked to is that it will forgo the aura buff for a perma-School Form. I'm sure that we have the complete image index, and people are just blowing this thing a bit out of proportion.


Latest trailer gave us an image of Wishiwashi with the aura on it. Yeah, it looks huge but it does anyway even in the Oranguru video. Perma School form would be cool, but I think that might be a bit overkill unless you have something which can absorb water attacks going by Marty's calcs on Wishiwashi's special attack. That fight is likely to be difficult either way... Wishiwashi is potentially very powerful.
 


Latest trailer gave us an image of Wishiwashi with the aura on it. Yeah, it looks huge but it does anyway even in the Oranguru video. Perma School form would be cool, but I think that might be a bit overkill unless you have something which can absorb water attacks going by Marty's calcs on Wishiwashi's special attack. That fight is likely to be difficult either way... Wishiwashi is potentially very powerful.
I was referring to the placeholder data. I think people saw that image and leaped to the conclusion that aura=different model, but the aura is likely just an effect that can be added. All this being said, I'm realizing that I did not explain myself well...sorry about that :|

And as for Perma-School Wishiwashi being a threat, yes, it definitely is, but it will probably only be Level 27 at the highest (that's Olivia's Nosepass's Level, and it is likely her lowest level Mon), so I don't think it will have that strong of moves, which should help balance things out a little bit. Still, it has a minimum of Base 147 SpA (if I'm remembering my old calcs correctly), so even a Water Gun will probably be killer. Man, I hope this means we'll get some challenge out of SuMo....

EDIT: Wait, hasn't it been raining in all the footage we've seen of the Wishwashi cutscene? Oh no...the Assimilated Borg Whale is going to devour us all, isn't it?
 
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EDIT: Wait, hasn't it been raining in all the footage we've seen of the Wishwashi cutscene? Oh no...the Assimilated Borg Whale is going to devour us all, isn't it?
Starting to feel a little more glad I'm picking Rowlet now, cause the other two Pokemon I'd likely have at this point are weak to Water.. XD
 
doing total 180s is pretty common in pokemon, which is why I think at some point they're going to do something that looks like a 180, but isn't
I guess you could say...

He does a 360 and runs away.

Edit: If you look at 3:50 in the battle intro video, you can see that the Totem Pokemon aura is part of their introduction, even when there's no model there. So it's possible that the aura during the whole battle is something added by the battle system itself, and is not part of the Pokemon's model. If that's the case then the theory about the missing models being "giant Pokemon" totems sounds right, and also Wishiwashi not having one because he's already giant.
 
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I guess you could say...

He does a 360 and runs away.

Edit: If you look at 3:50 in the battle intro video, you can see that the Totem Pokemon aura is part of their introduction, even when there's no model there. So it's possible that the aura during the whole battle is something added by the battle system itself, and is not part of the Pokemon's model. If that's the case then the theory about the missing models being "giant Pokemon" totems sounds right, and also Wishiwashi not having one because he's already giant.
*ba dum tiss*

Yeah, the aura seems like an in-battle effect that could, conceivably, be applied to anything, which could make the eventual randomized runs of SuMo fascinating sights to behold.

A Totem Magikarp appeared! An Aura flared to life! Magikarp's Sp. Attack rose!

It called for help! (A Victini shows up)
 
EDIT: Wait, hasn't it been raining in all the footage we've seen of the Wishwashi cutscene? Oh no...the Assimilated Borg Whale is going to devour us all, isn't it?
I also think because of this, it will be the hardest totem to take down. None of the other totems really have the deck stacked in their favor like this.

Like we've assumed Lurantis might be tough but we're operating under the assumption it (1) has solar blade and (2) will summon pokemon that cause sunny day. But that's still a 2 part process that will be easy to dismantle. Statistically it will also probably be easier than Wishiwashi's School form.

And after wishiwashi we have....Salandit 2, Vikavolt, Mimikyu, & Kommo-o

Salandit 2 doesn't have a lot going for it. Corosion will likely still be its sole ability and fire doesn't get a lot of combo potential. I think it will just be like Gumshoos/Raticate: a strong pokemon that you're fighting before it's likely to evolve and summons other, weaker pokemon to wear you down. Since it can poison anything and probably have attract, it will probably try to annoy you

Vikavolt has potential. If it really evolves that late, it probably has good stats (speed & special attack) and it will no doubt summon charjabug to give it an extra boost.

Mimikyu is a petite single staged pokemon with a one free hit built in. It will probably be neglible to take down

Kommo-o has no big gimmick beyond specific move immunities and will probably be easy to take down because it's end game, you're going against 2 pokemon max and you likely have a full high leveld team. Clair's a pain because she had a full team of things to go through, not because it's one really tough pokemon.
 
I also think because of this, it will be the hardest totem to take down. None of the other totems really have the deck stacked in their favor like this.

Like we've assumed Lurantis might be tough but we're operating under the assumption it (1) has solar blade and (2) will summon pokemon that cause sunny day. But that's still a 2 part process that will be easy to dismantle. Statistically it will also probably be easier than Wishiwashi's School form.

And after wishiwashi we have....Salandit 2, Vikavolt, Mimikyu, & Kommo-o

Salandit 2 doesn't have a lot going for it. Corosion will likely still be its sole ability and fire doesn't get a lot of combo potential. I think it will just be like Gumshoos/Raticate: a strong pokemon that you're fighting before it's likely to evolve and summons other, weaker pokemon to wear you down. Since it can poison anything and probably have attract, it will probably try to annoy you

Vikavolt has potential. If it really evolves that late, it probably has good stats (speed & special attack) and it will no doubt summon charjabug to give it an extra boost.

Mimikyu is a petite single staged pokemon with a one free hit built in. It will probably be neglible to take down

Kommo-o has no big gimmick beyond specific move immunities and will probably be easy to take down because it's end game, you're going against 2 pokemon max and you likely have a full high leveld team. Clair's a pain because she had a full team of things to go through, not because it's one really tough pokemon.
All I'll say is that if Mimikyu calls on an ally that can redirect fire (with Follow Me or Rage Powder), things could get hairy.

I agree on the others, though, especially Vikavolt, which is definitely perfectly built to be a Totem Mon thanks to Charjabug.

That said, I may have to disagree on one, Lurantis. Odds are it will be an early Trial on Akala (I can definitely see the order being Grass, Fire. Water), and if your team is all at about Level 16-18, a fully evolved Mon like that could be scary, especially with a Fomantis alongside it setting up the Sun for the sake of Leaf Guard and Solar Blade. That said, being Grass with a possible reliance on Sun mean that Torracat and any other early Fire-Type will likely have a field day taking it on (but I don't have any plans to use one thus far, so...)
 
All I'll say is that if Mimikyu calls on an ally that can redirect fire (with Follow Me or Rage Powder), things could get hairy.
Allied pokemon don't act until the following turn. Your opening move should generally be hitting mimikyu. Follow Me & Rage Powder aren't exactly widespread and I don't see Mimikyu summoning those types of things.


That said, I may have to disagree on one, Lurantis. Odds are it will be an early Trial on Akala (I can definitely see the order being Grass, Fire. Water), and if your team is all at about Level 16-18, a fully evolved Mon like that could be scary, especially with a Fomantis alongside it setting up the Sun for the sake of Leaf Guard and Solar Blade. That said, being Grass with a possible reliance on Sun mean that Torracat and any other early Fire-Type will likely have a field day taking it on (but I don't have any plans to use one thus far, so...)
Dangerous in the same way Raticate & Gumshoos are dangerous. They're both evolved at a point where almost none of yours will be and have attack boosting abilities, but seem pretty easy to take down (Raticate more so than Gumshoos)
And its a lot easier to counter a grass type than a normal type
 
All I'll say is that if Mimikyu calls on an ally that can redirect fire (with Follow Me or Rage Powder), things could get hairy.

I agree on the others, though, especially Vikavolt, which is definitely perfectly built to be a Totem Mon thanks to Charjabug.

That said, I may have to disagree on one, Lurantis. Odds are it will be an early Trial on Akala (I can definitely see the order being Grass, Fire. Water), and if your team is all at about Level 16-18, a fully evolved Mon like that could be scary, especially with a Fomantis alongside it setting up the Sun for the sake of Leaf Guard and Solar Blade. That said, being Grass with a possible reliance on Sun mean that Torracat and any other early Fire-Type will likely have a field day taking it on (but I don't have any plans to use one thus far, so...)

All that is assuming they can only summon one helper at a time, wich I don't think is official. The thing is, we only saw early/mid game gameplay so far, and the latter totems could prety much summon the rest of a horde to make things a little more leveled against our probable late game 6 poke team.
 
A totem Mimikyu would likely "try" to summon Pokemon such as Shuppet/Banette, given they are Ghost-type Pokemon that are unpopular/abandoned toys.
 
All that is assuming they can only summon one helper at a time, wich I don't think is official. The thing is, we only saw early/mid game gameplay so far, and the latter totems could prety much summon the rest of a horde to make things a little more leveled against our probable late game 6 poke team.
Sure I guess they could summon more than one pokemon, but judging by how they (seemingly) got rid of hordes, triples & rotation (trainer-wise, anyway) I don't see them bringing in more than one pokemon at a time. And I'm not even sure they can respawn pokemon, none of the totems seem to prioritize it that we've seen thus far.

Judging by the level of Pokemon, I really doubt they'll summon another 3 at once.

e: I'm also curious if summons can fail. The weird "... ... ..." makes it seem like it can unless its just hiding loading.
 
Sure I guess they could summon more than one pokemon, but judging by how they (seemingly) got rid of hordes, triples & rotation (trainer-wise, anyway) I don't see them bringing in more than one pokemon at a time. And I'm not even sure they can respawn pokemon, none of the totems seem to prioritize it that we've seen thus far.

Judging by the level of Pokemon, I really doubt they'll summon another 3 at once.

e: I'm also curious if summons can fail. The weird "... ... ..." makes it seem like it can unless its just hiding loading.
I can't see them getting rid of Horde battles.
 
Sure I guess they could summon more than one pokemon, but judging by how they (seemingly) got rid of hordes, triples & rotation (trainer-wise, anyway) I don't see them bringing in more than one pokemon at a time. And I'm not even sure they can respawn pokemon, none of the totems seem to prioritize it that we've seen thus far.
Wait, when was it confirmed that hordes were gone? I remember reading about triple and rotation battles, but man, hordes were great for EV training.
 
Wait, when was it confirmed that hordes were gone? I remember reading about triple and rotation battles, but man, hordes were great for EV training.
A correction on my part: Horde trainer battles seem to be gone, Kazo said it in a later tweet when he mentioned triples & rotation seemed to be gone.

Regardless I still don't think totems will ever summon multiple pokemon.
Guzma is fought early on the third island has 2 pokemon and one is a level 30 ariados. No one has been shown with more than 3 pokemon and the onl ytrainers with 3 pokemon thus far are 2 kahunas. Everyone else seems to just have one on the first island up through Illima's trial and team skull people haven't seen with more than 2.

If they aren't willing to give more trainers lots of pokemon I highly doubt the totems are going to be these complex, horde-like, super stat buffed affairs.
 
A correction on my part: Horde trainer battles seem to be gone, Kazo said it in a later tweet when he mentioned triples & rotation seemed to be gone.

Regardless I still don't think totems will ever summon multiple pokemon.
Guzma is fought early on the third island has 2 pokemon and one is a level 30 ariados. No one has been shown with more than 3 pokemon and the onl ytrainers with 3 pokemon thus far are 2 kahunas. Everyone else seems to just have one on the first island up through Illima's trial and team skull people haven't seen with more than 2.

If they aren't willing to give more trainers lots of pokemon I highly doubt the totems are going to be these complex, horde-like, super stat buffed affairs.
Eh lets be honest.. horde trainers and triples were kinda lame. Rotation was fun, though.. but I won't miss them personally.
 
But seriously there are some abilities they should change (Like how they changed in Gen 6 so Electric Types don't get paralyzed but kept Limber Stunfisk a thing)
There's nothing about that that doesn't make sense. Immunity to paralysis is one effect of the trait that's described by the Limber ability. That the 'mon's electrical current, or whatever, makes it immune to paralysis anyway doesn't have any bearing on whether it exhibits the Limber "ability."
 
I doubt it would be taken out but wild horde encounters is something that made 6th gen really enjoyable because you no longer need to waste like 20 minutes EV training every Pokemon. If it does get taken out then that would be a step in the wrong direction
 
Eh lets be honest.. horde trainers and triples were kinda lame. Rotation was fun, though.. but I won't miss them personally.
horde battles in ORAS were basically a long form joke. First its 5 poochyenas. Then in the post game...its 5 mightyena with initimidate.

I think it's a shame they only did it twice and then seem to have scrapped it (regardless of hordes in the wild still being around or not)
 
So far we know trainer hordes are non present but so far wild hordes haven't popped up in any of the datamine news by kazo who found the list of modes removed so cross our fingers
 
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