SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword and Shield Datamine Thread

After playing a decent number of SWSH matches on Nexus, here are my thoughts on the early metagame so far:

The new pokemon are actually extremely fun to use, and they're great additions to the competitive scene! I've especially been loving Rillaboom with a banded set, and Duraludon with a modest Shuca set. Sirfetch'd and Galarian Darmanitan are really fun too, and Corviknight is steel/flying that fits super well with momentum teams. Barraskewda is a menace on rain, and Cinderace feels like a more predictable but still good Greninja. I have so many more mons I could gush about but the dex itself has made some super fun mons to toy around with!

However, the format is extremely toxic with Dynamax. The mechanic is so broken that everything looks like a Magearna after 3 turns, and even after you outlast the dynamax it might often be too late if you've had to sacrifice too much. Bulky Offense teams are simply out of the question, as is Balance because every offensive threat can dynamax and shred through all defensive backbones after a single ounce of chip damage has been spread. I really only see 5 archetypes lasting down the road: Rain, Sand, Screens, Webs, and hard stall (even this might get snuffed out eventually). The metagame is also going to stale extremely quickly because games do boil down to whoever gets their best dynamaxer off first. The mechanic is extremely uninteractive and I felt myself want to abandon this generation altogether multiple times while laddering LOL.

Keep in mind, the game isn't even out yet so nobody should really take action in terms of metagame management for a bit. But if it were up to me, I would straight up quickban dynamaxing. Doing so would actually allow for a ton of team archetypes to be viable again, and increase metagame diversity in the long run. If this is done alongside a Shadow Tag and Arena Trap ban, I don't see much requiring a suspect test down the road in a dynamax-less Galarian metagame (maybe Excadill, big emphasis on maybe). Seriously, a lot of these movepool changes for the Galarian Dex are really well balanced! But it feels like they didn't account for dynamaxing at all, and it really feels like the mechanic was intended for in-game playthrough purposes. I sincerely hope the mechanic gets the fuck out of competitive play.
 
After playing a decent number of SWSH matches on Nexus, here are my thoughts on the early metagame so far:

The new pokemon are actually extremely fun to use, and they're great additions to the competitive scene! I've especially been loving Rillaboom with a banded set, and Duraludon with a modest Shuca set. Sirfetch'd and Galarian Darmanitan are really fun too, and Corviknight is steel/flying that fits super well with momentum teams. Barraskewda is a menace on rain, and Cinderace feels like a more predictable but still good Greninja. I have so many more mons I could gush about but the dex itself has made some super fun mons to toy around with!

However, the format is extremely toxic with Dynamax. The mechanic is so broken that everything looks like a Magearna after 3 turns, and even after you outlast the dynamax it might often be too late if you've had to sacrifice too much. Bulky Offense teams are simply out of the question, as is Balance because every offensive threat can dynamax and shred through all defensive backbones after a single ounce of chip damage has been spread. I really only see 5 archetypes lasting down the road: Rain, Sand, Screens, Webs, and hard stall (even this might get snuffed out eventually). The metagame is also going to stale extremely quickly because games do boil down to whoever gets their best dynamaxer off first. The mechanic is extremely uninteractive and I felt myself want to abandon this generation altogether multiple times while laddering LOL.

Keep in mind, the game isn't even out yet so nobody should really take action in terms of metagame management for a bit. But if it were up to me, I would straight up quickban dynamaxing. Doing so would actually allow for a ton of team archetypes to be viable again, and increase metagame diversity in the long run. If this is done alongside a Shadow Tag and Arena Trap ban, I don't see much requiring a suspect test down the road in a dynamax-less Galarian metagame (maybe Excadill, big emphasis on maybe). Seriously, a lot of these movepool changes for the Galarian Dex are really well balanced! But it feels like they didn't account for dynamaxing at all, and it really feels like the mechanic was intended for in-game playthrough purposes. I sincerely hope the mechanic gets the fuck out of competitive play.
Banning Dynamax means you're removing the fundamental mechanic of this generation lol
 
Banning Dynamax means you're removing the fundamental mechanic of this generation lol
It's definitely uncharted territory, but Smogon is going to have to go through a lot of new problems with Generation 8. Between sorting out how to sustain all the other metagames with Dexit destroying the Pokemon availability for lower tiers and ubers/monotype, to figuring out how to deal with Dynamax literally killing most of the metagame diversity and completely warping the game into something unrecognizable, this gen is definitely an exception to the past ones and I don't expect it to be handled with the same procedures of the past. Some framework changes will most probably be made.
 
Because that's not what smogon does.
Smogon's meant to simulate the cart's battling, and the tiering exists to allow to use every pokemon.
There's no "globally banned" mechanic and never been (aside Mega Rayquaza basically only allowed in AG i guess lol).
It also further divorces Smogon from the broader community it largely aspires to provide a competitive ruleset for. Every generation has seen players jump ship over single Pokemon bans, let alone attempting to completely ban the game's flagship mechanic. We provide a competitive ruleset by common consensus.
 
Dynamax is Fun throught the first matches, but when you start to get more competitive, it becomes a gimmick shitshow. Of course we are playing a speculatory meta, but seems that without dynamax the game can be VERY balanced.
 
I thought Dynamax BP moves weren't that high? I mean Gyarados setting up its own rain and Gengar being able to Nasty Plot and then get another boost from poison max moves is pretty insane, but still seems manageable. Dynamax would have to literally ruin the entire game to need to be quickbanned like that. We haven't been talking about these giant ass Pokemon for months only to not get to try them for a while.

I'm still dying to know if Red Card works on Dynamax, or if Red Card is even in the game, because if it is then putting it on a bulky mon is a quick fix to any particularly nasty Dynamaxes.
 
I thought Dynamax BP moves weren't that high? I mean Gyarados setting up its own rain and Gengar being able to Nasty Plot and then get another boost from poison max moves is pretty insane, but still seems manageable. Dynamax would have to literally ruin the entire game to need to be quickbanned like that. We haven't been talking about these giant ass Pokemon for months only to not get to try them for a while.

I'm still dying to know if Red Card works on Dynamax, or if Red Card is even in the game, because if it is then putting it on a bulky mon is a quick fix to any particularly nasty Dynamaxes.
I don't agree with a quickban either. Maybe the meta can adjust. These are first impressions from a single day.
 
We just have to adjust. I tried Bulky Offense and yeah, it gets overrun by Dynamax. But there's still Archetypes (speed boost by Weather, Hyper Offense with fast Scarfers and so on) - Red Card is a dead stop to everything Dynamaxed after the three turns, Cursola and stuff were pretty much built for stopping, Prankster on a 3 stage evolution, and so on and on.
 
Unless for whatever reason they made berrys unobtainable (doesn't look like the case), no, same as usual.
I wonder if there will be facilities/mechanics like in Gen 7 games that facilitate away-from-game EV growth and berry production
It is a god send helping mass producing berries and train EVs even when I am away
 
I wonder if there will be facilities/mechanics like in Gen 7 games that facilitate away-from-game EV growth and berry production
It is a god send helping mass producing berries and train EVs even when I am away
Pokejobs seems to basically replace what Pelago did in gen 7.
 
Will Durant have a time to shine now with Scizor being gone?
I think Hustle + First Impression sounds pretty threatening, however I couldn’t find Hone Claws listed in it’s SwSh learnset, so that might hold it back (until home comes out).
 
Will Durant have a time to shine now with Scizor being gone?
I think Hustle + First Impression sounds pretty threatening, however I couldn’t find Hone Claws listed in it’s SwSh learnset, so that might hold it back (until home comes out).
Ehm just reminding you that using setup with first impression is literally impossible...
 
After playing a decent number of SWSH matches on Nexus, here are my thoughts on the early metagame so far:

The new pokemon are actually extremely fun to use, and they're great additions to the competitive scene! I've especially been loving Rillaboom with a banded set, and Duraludon with a modest Shuca set. Sirfetch'd and Galarian Darmanitan are really fun too, and Corviknight is steel/flying that fits super well with momentum teams. Barraskewda is a menace on rain, and Cinderace feels like a more predictable but still good Greninja. I have so many more mons I could gush about but the dex itself has made some super fun mons to toy around with!

However, the format is extremely toxic with Dynamax. The mechanic is so broken that everything looks like a Magearna after 3 turns, and even after you outlast the dynamax it might often be too late if you've had to sacrifice too much. Bulky Offense teams are simply out of the question, as is Balance because every offensive threat can dynamax and shred through all defensive backbones after a single ounce of chip damage has been spread. I really only see 5 archetypes lasting down the road: Rain, Sand, Screens, Webs, and hard stall (even this might get snuffed out eventually). The metagame is also going to stale extremely quickly because games do boil down to whoever gets their best dynamaxer off first. The mechanic is extremely uninteractive and I felt myself want to abandon this generation altogether multiple times while laddering LOL.

Keep in mind, the game isn't even out yet so nobody should really take action in terms of metagame management for a bit. But if it were up to me, I would straight up quickban dynamaxing. Doing so would actually allow for a ton of team archetypes to be viable again, and increase metagame diversity in the long run. If this is done alongside a Shadow Tag and Arena Trap ban, I don't see much requiring a suspect test down the road in a dynamax-less Galarian metagame (maybe Excadill, big emphasis on maybe). Seriously, a lot of these movepool changes for the Galarian Dex are really well balanced! But it feels like they didn't account for dynamaxing at all, and it really feels like the mechanic was intended for in-game playthrough purposes. I sincerely hope the mechanic gets the fuck out of competitive play.
I think its still too early to tell if Dynamaxing is broken or not. But I will bring up my thoughts. Dynamax let you essentially use three slightly weaker Z-moves, but not only that, it also DOUBLES your HP stat and lets you use a items like LO, Choice Scarf, and the pinch berries. But whatever or not it is broken, we need more time, but we can discuss whatever or not Kyurem-B, Gyarados, and Excadrill (the Pokemon that had people thinking dynamax is broken.) are broken. These three already received buffs such as DD and physical stab, Power Whip, and spin now giving Drill +1 to speed everytime it removes hazards. Combine that with Dynamaxing and they become immediate monsters. Excadrill is probably the only one that might stay if dynamax doesn’t get banned. I have found some decent counterplay to it like Unaware Quag and Galar Coral. Meanwhile you need to run Aegislash in order to not lose to Black, and you have to not let Gyarados setup or you lose. GF just gave Gyarados near perfect coverage thanks to the addition to Power Whip now letting it break past Quagsire and Rotom-W (which got nerfed hard now that it doesn’t have Defog and Pain Split with it.) I haven’t seen Dynamaxing as a big issue, I think the issue is those three I mentioned. They could either ban the use of dynamax + a boosting move, or ban the three musketeers (Gyara/Kyurem/Exca), or ban Dynamaxing all together. Otherwise, I think we are looking at a meta as balanced as Gen 3/4/and 7.
 

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