Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Battle Sets

I really think Refrigerate Aurorus is just inferior to Snow Warning. Not only does Blizzard do more damage than Refrigerate Hyper Voice, but there is also the hail chip damage which is an extra 6% true damage and also the 1/10 chance to Freeze. The one advantage Refrigerate has over Blizzard is that it is a Sound move so it goes through Substitutes, but this is a very niche use when you consider Snow Warning is always useful, compared to Refrigerate being only useful sometimes.

I think Refrigerate should be removed as a possible ability for the same reason Arctovish doesn't get Slush Rush: It relies on an element that is rare enough to come by that the alternative ability is just more useful.
 
I can also add that I win way more with Team Preview on. Might sound like a good thing but it does take away the skill to predict well and I'd rather not have the burden of mindgames like in tiers.
After thinking about it for a bit, I believe that Team Preview would exacerbate unfavorable matchups. Knowing that your [insert mon here] just wins from Preview isn't the most competitive, or enjoyable from the opponent's perspective. Random Battle is meant to be fun, for the most part. And teams are mostly random, unlike let's say Battle Factory where you might actually roll teams with some semblance of synergy and not auto-lose on Team Preview. This wouldn't be a rare occurrence either. If you think about games you've played, or going forward take notice of how "if you knew what Pokemon your opponent had, you would have saved [insert mon here] to sweep" you'd realize that Team Preview is ultimately a terrible idea for a format like this.
I also agree with this. I have won many battles against an opponent with a 'mon that counters my whole team because they sacked it off without knowing that my team has such a bad match up against it. Team Preview would also tilt battles in favour of consecutive turns of just switch prediction fests, making battles last longer. In battles where both my opponent and I have been forced to reveal the vast majority of our team early on, it has just devolved into constant switching without attacking in an effort to try to get into an advantage state. This would also make entry hazards stronger than they already are. One of the reasons VGC is in a Doubles format is because at the highest levels of play in Singles, battles take a hideously long time due to all the switching mindgames.
 
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i wanted talk about kinglers gmax form
i feel like the speed lowering effect helps out kingler a ton considering its subpar speed
ik it gets agility but sd 3 attacks sets could really make use of speed control. it also opens up door for more coverage on the set
(idk if this is possible if it can have its dmax form on agility sets and gmax on 3attacks would be the best)
 
aerodactyl: {
randomBattleMoves: ["dragondance", "earthquake", "psychicfangs", "roost", "stoneedge", "taunt"],

afaik aerodactyl doesn't learn dragon dance?

dont know if this is where I should post this lol
 
i wanted talk about kinglers gmax form
i feel like the speed lowering effect helps out kingler a ton considering its subpar speed
ik it gets agility but sd 3 attacks sets could really make use of speed control. it also opens up door for more coverage on the set
(idk if this is possible if it can have its dmax form on agility sets and gmax on 3attacks would be the best)
I think the main issue with Kingler here is that after a SD set, there's very little foes that can survive a hit, unless they also dynamax themselves. Setting up the rain (50% boost to max geyser) helps tremendously. Foam Burst could prove to be useful against certain foes that may boost their speed (via airstream mostly, as very little pokémon would survive setting up in front of a dynamaxed kingler, especially after a SD). The main issue I have with Foam Burst is how badly it was implemented. If it were a 4-turns field effect (like the Kanto starters gmax forms), not only would it have made more sense, but G-max Kingler would actually be worth using - though I feel like it could have been too OP in VGC.
aerodactyl: {
randomBattleMoves: ["dragondance", "earthquake", "psychicfangs", "roost", "stoneedge", "taunt"],

afaik aerodactyl doesn't learn dragon dance?

dont know if this is where I should post this lol
Talking about Aerodactyl, TIL psychic fangs was in its randbats movepool. Am I the only one who thinks Fly would be a better option despite the 2-turns? It wouldn't be the only flying type with it or Bounce (Landorus, Gyarados) so there's some sort of precedent, and it's extremely strong when dynamaxed.

The reason I'm saying this is that after one DD (there are very little opportunities to safely set up twice with it, let's be honest), Psychic Fangs still misses a lot of KOs, and the Pokémon you'd use Psychic Fang on (Venusaur, Vileplume, Poliwrath, Machamp, Hitmonlee/Hitmontop/Hitmonchan, Heracross, Roserade, Conkeldurr, Throh, Sawk, Amoonguss, Keldeo, Hawlucha, Bewear, Passimian, Kommo-o, Slimladybug, Marshadow, Grapploct, Zamazenta) all happen to have one thing in common : They are all weak to flying type moves.

Fly also has the benefit of adding super effective coverage on the likes of Rillaboom, Dhelmise, Lurantis, Shiinotic, Decidueye, Gourgeist (especially useful for the two thicc ones), Pangoro, Scrafty, Lilligant, Whimsicott, Maractus, Tangrowth, Cradily, Ludicolo, Sceptile, Celebi, Bellossom, Exeggutor (both) and Virizion, with the relevant ones being bold (I didn't exactly check, but I assume these are the ones that can survive a +1 max rockfall at full health without dynamaxing).

Unless Fly is now unobtainable on it (I didn't check either), I just feel like Psychic Fang brings very little advantage (poison types are hit by EQ for the most part), other than not taking 2 turns and having 100% accuracy. And maybe removing screens, I guess. Maybe even Aerial Ace would be a better option (STAB boost gives it higher BP than Psychic Fangs) if it's still possible for it to learn it.

I felt it was worth discussing.
 
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Palossand gets Scorching Sands in Doubles but Earth Power in Singles. Apparently one liners are bad even though it was probably just forgotten to be changed so Scorching Sands is better than Earth Power in Singles as well.
 
I think Refrigerate should be removed as a possible ability for the same reason Arctovish doesn't get Slush Rush: It relies on an element that is rare enough to come by that the alternative ability is just more useful.
I was under the impression that Arctovish couldn't get Slush Rush because the ability is currently illegal and didn't have a confirmed release until very recently. Am I mistaken?

Let's not forget that Arctovish can set hail by itself by Dynamaxing, although the problem with that is that it primarily benefits from the speed boost when *not* Dynamaxed.

(At any rate, I would definitely agree that Snow Warning is always better on Aurorus -- unless it also has Blizzard, setting Hail with Dynamax Aurorus doesn't accomplish much beyond chip damage.)
 

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Palossand gets Scorching Sands in Doubles but Earth Power in Singles. Apparently one liners are bad even though it was probably just forgotten to be changed so Scorching Sands is better than Earth Power in Singles as well.
The developer dislikes Scorching Sands and will not add it to Palossand in the foreseeable future.

I was under the impression that Arctovish couldn't get Slush Rush because the ability is currently illegal and didn't have a confirmed release until very recently. Am I mistaken?

Let's not forget that Arctovish can set hail by itself by Dynamaxing, although the problem with that is that it primarily benefits from the speed boost when *not* Dynamaxed.

(At any rate, I would definitely agree that Snow Warning is always better on Aurorus -- unless it also has Blizzard, setting Hail with Dynamax Aurorus doesn't accomplish much beyond chip damage.)
Ability legality is ignored in Randbats. Arctovish only gets Slush Rush if there is a Snow Warning user on the team.
 
The developer dislikes Scorching Sands and will not add it to Palossand in the foreseeable future.
And I understand him, considering it may prevent you from using toxic on an annoying recover/roost/synthesis/anyrecovery if you land an unlucky burn on a switch. It's also weaker in BP to scald, for which the burn chance offsets the drop in BP from surf. A 30% burn chance for a 20 drop in BP, however, meh.
 

Finland

I am Ferdinand von Aegir.
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Cloud Nine at 2 does feel a bit high for an ability on applicable to about 10 Pokemon 13 Pokemon, especially when some (ttar, hippo, aurorus, gigalith) aren't that hampered by losing weather.

E: did forgot about dmax weather setters, good point
 
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Cloud Nine at 2 does feel a bit high for an ability on applicable to about 10 Pokemon 13 Pokemon, especially when some (ttar, hippo, aurorus, gigalith) aren't that hampered by losing weather.
Honestly, when thinking about it a bit more, the only two Pokémon against whom it can be useful are Drednaw, Kabutops, Sandslash-Alolan (all of which need a weather setter or need to dynamax to set up their weather), Ludicolo and Poliwr... nevermind it doesn't have ice punch anymore. In Sandlash's case, it's only useful if it carries Fire Blast too.
 
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There needs to be more sets with hazard removal. There seems to be at least one hazard setter in almost every one of my games, yet I don't always get Defog or Rapid Spin. It's especially annoying when I get multiple Pokémon like Altaria, Eldegoss, or Mr. Rime in the same game expecting at least one of them to have Defog or Rapin Spin only to be disappointed. Meanwhile, every Pokémon like Pinurchin, Shuckle, or Runerigus that I see have at least one hazard move.
 

Finland

I am Ferdinand von Aegir.
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
I wonder if it's worth mandating one form of hazard removal (or 2+ Boots mons?) if the opponent has a hazard. It does make the teams less random to an extent, but man is it frustrating and unfair-feeling when your opponent clicks a button one time, and they get a significant unchallengeable advantage for the entire rest of the game.
 
I wonder if it's worth mandating one form of hazard removal (or 2+ Boots mons?) if the opponent has a hazard. It does make the teams less random to an extent, but man is it frustrating and unfair-feeling when your opponent clicks a button one time, and they get a significant unchallengeable advantage for the entire rest of the game.
I disagree with this suggestion for four reasons:
A) It'd make things a little more monotonous. Probably not the biggest concern, but the number of Pokémon with hazard removal is a fairly small proportion of the overall total, and some mons who have hazard removal options shouldn't use them as they're bad in the roles which makes the pool of Pokémon for the forced slot even smaller.

B) The disparity between good and bad hazard removal mons is extreme. It's the same as in any other instance, but it would create more imbalance if one person gets Excadrill as their hazard removal and the other gets Vespiquen. This is less of an issue when it's true random because it's 6-on-6 comparisons, whereas this is more of a direct one.

C) In competitive play, every team isn't mandated to have hazard removal to be effective or top tier. It seems strange to apply a philosophy of "hazard removal is necessary" to randbats when it isn't applicable to teambuilt tiers.

D) It removes the niche of many other Pokémon. Pincurchin becomes much less useful, basically being a one-use Rising Voltage nuke and maybe getting a Sucker Punch off in most battles, for instance. Maractus fares even worse since Spikes is about the only useful thing it does. Every team having hazard removal doesn't make these Pokémon completely useless, but it harshly reduces their utility which seems unnecessary. Especially when so many Pokémon have HDB which already reduces it.

I think it's a reasonable complaint if you roll a stall team with no hazard removal and your opponent rolls hazard stack, but that's randbats for you. Getting screwed occasionally is part of the game and even though it's annoying, it's not enough of an issue to decrease the "random" in random battles. Especially since most of the time you can counter hazards by gathering momentum and applying offensive pressure, so this really is only relevant in battles where you get screwed with little offensive presence anyway.
 
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Finland

I am Ferdinand von Aegir.
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
I disagree with this suggestion for four reasons:
A) It'd make things a little more monotonous. Probably not the biggest concern, but the number of Pokémon with hazard removal is a fairly small proportion of the overall total, and some mons who have hazard removal options shouldn't use them as they're bad in the roles which makes the pool of Pokémon for the forced slot even smaller.
Being bad in the role is less important in rands. Comp teams have hazard dynamics we don't, where hazard setters and removers have support to set and remove hazards multiple times across the course of a match. This making KOing the hazard setter much easier in randoms, which means you need to click the removal button exactly one time after.

B) The disparity between good and bad hazard removal mons is extreme. It's the same as in any other instance, but it would create more imbalance if one person gets Excadrill as their hazard removal and the other gets Vespiquen. This is less of an issue when it's true random because it's 6-on-6 comparisons, whereas this is more of a direct one.
If your opponent had a hazard setter, would you rather have a random mediocre Pokemon, or a remover that is a bad Pokemon? I'd usually rather have a remover that is bad.

I do agree that, if your hazard setter is a Maractus and your opponent gets a remover that is a great Pokemon, that's pretty tragic for you. We could limit the pool of "possible guaranteed removers when opponent has a hazard" to non-exceptional Pokemon, while leaving these exceptional mons as a non-guaranteed second remover, but that is a bit non-intuitive.

C) In competitive play, every team isn't mandated to have hazard removal to be effective or top tier. It seems strange to apply a philosophy of "hazard removal is necessary" to randbats when it isn't applicable to teambuilt tiers.
You can specifically design a competitive team to address your isolation from the "hazard metagame". You don't have that option in randoms. Also, this suggestion isn't to make hazard removal present every time, just when the opponent rolls a hazard.

D) It removes the niche of many other Pokémon. Pincurchin becomes much less useful, basically being a one-use Rising Voltage nuke with maybe a Sucker Punch in most battles, for instance. Maractus fares even worse since Spikes is about the only useful thing it does. Every team having hazard removal doesn't make these Pokémon completely useless, but it harshly reduces their utility which seems unnecessary. Especially when so many Pokémon have HDB which already reduces it.
Getting screwed occasionally is part of the game
Sorry, I couldn't resist! But even if it diminishes these Pokemon, it adds to the metagame both by preventing super-skewed risk/reward, and adding an avenue for skill in fainting the removal so that you can set with impunity.

I think it's a reasonable complaint if you roll a stall team with no hazard removal and your opponent rolls hazard stack, but that's randbats for you. Getting screwed occasionally is part of the game and even though it's annoying, it's not enough of an issue to decrease the "random" in random battles.
It's worth saying that my viewpoint is not "uncontested hazards make you lose games". It is "uncontested hazards give your opponent a (1)thoughtless, (2)near-free advantage, (3)for the entire length of the match, which detracts from the format". Being at a disadvantage for the whole game because your opponent made one obvious choice with little risk, is simply not fun.

Especially when so many Pokémon have HDB which already reduces it.
My other idea of guaranteeing X number of Boots Pokemon on the team if your opponent has a hazard could formalize this and let us find an appropriate balance for it.
 
Couldn't get a screenshot but i rolled a togedemaru with uturn, iron head, zing zap, and nuzzle with a choice band. I know those are technically four physical moves but i feel like nuzzle doesn't work at all with choice band, it's really more of a support move
 
I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks that, but I think Excadrill with LO, SD and Rock Slide (and therefore no rapid spin) should always get Sand Rush due to the dynamax potential. Don't know if there are any other Pokémon in a similar situations, but something like :
IF (Pokémon has weather activated speed boosting ability AND Pokémon has said weather activating max move AND (Pokémon has offense boosting move OR Pokémon has offense boosting max move) AND Pokémon doesn't have a teammate that can set up said weather) THEN Give Pokémon said weather activated speed boosting ability

Not sure if the logic is right, but I always get disappointed when I get that Exca set only to be outsped by something that would be nuked otherwise. Plus, Exca has the possibility to boost both its defense and special defense once dynamaxed, making it a very strong dynamaxer overall.

Mold Breaker is obviously very good (Bypassing Mimikyu and Eiscue shenanigans, Sturdy from potential reverse sweepers like Carracosta and Crustle, Levitate from Weezing, the Rotoms and the Lati@s, Wonder Guard on Shed, maybe some Solid Rock and similar abilities users like Rhyperior and Bewear, etc.), but I just feel that the potential benefits from getting sand rush in the situation described in the logic above far outweighs the mold breaker benefits, with most levitate users being nuked by Dynamax moves anyways, unless they themselves dynamax, Shedinja being dealt with Rock Slide.
 
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I feel we should add Bounce to Cinderace's moveset. Cinderace almost always runs a Bounce set in Battle Spot Singles. Bounce is a highly viable move as flying type has great neutral coverage and it also gives Cinderace access to a 130 base power Max Airstream, which is one of the best max moves due to it's speed boosting effect.
 
I agree with Zaide on weather dynamaxers in general and Exca in particular, SD Rock Slide should never not get Sand Rush. I'd only add that Exca maybe prefers Mold Breaker with Spin? But since it always gets both STABS, Spin/Slide/SD is impossible. Based on a quick (I might have missed a mon) search of the weather speed-boosting abilities, Seaking is the only other Pokemon that doesn't always get its speed-boosting ability, SD forcing Swift Swim would work well for it. For Exca and Seaking Zaide's logic sounds good, :blobthumbsup: however it doesn't prevent e.g. Sucker/NP/Pulse/Storm Shiftry (which I got once:blobshrug:).

I disagree with giving Cinder Bounce, it's only 85 BP (compare to HJK/Pyro Ball/Gunk), it doesn't hit anything Cinder doesn't already hit with Pyro Ball + Zen Headbutt, and free turns are not cool. Yeah, Max Airstream (and para chance) are great, but from posts I've seen here from staff, this isn't a good reason to add a usually-suboptimal move. Set choices in Randbats should never revolve around dynamax or need dynamax to be good, because the mon with the dynamax-central set might not be the mon you'd most want to dynamax. Who cares about giving Cinder Airstream boosts when you got Gyara in the back? Dynamax can and should be a fantastic perk to already-good sets (Weather speed boosters, self-made terrain to nuke stuff are good examples), but it's not a device for lifting up usually-suboptimal sets.

Also, I'd like to propose a new set: Meteor Beam + Power Herb Lunatone. Meteor Beam's a cool concept for a move, being able to instantly boost and nuke is a fairly unique (we miss you Clangorous Soulblaze!) and fun thing that'd add to Randbats. The logic should be "If Meteor Beam, force Power Herb, then roll any 3 of Gem/Psychic/EP/Polish" (NP and Beam should never be together). Let's give some special (pun intended) love to our only special-attacking Rock type! :blobthumbsup:

Finally, I don't know if this is the place for this, but can we PLEASE remove rolling Max Moves as regular moves (they're 10 BP and you don't get the max effects!) and TRs as items from Hackmons Cup? I get that the point of HC is to play with ALL possibilities, and often in HC you get useless stuff like Contrary + boosting move, SD + 3 special moves, etc. But these are useless because you got unlucky, and SD/Contrary/boosting moves can be/are usually actually useful. Whereas TRs/Max Moves as regular moves are useless because they can never not be useless; I'm trying to say it just feels like a different, more useless kind of uselessness.
 
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Can Rillaboom run its Gigantamax form over its Dynamax form?

When in its it's Gigantamax form Rillaboom gets access to G-Max Drum Solo. G-Max Drum Solo always deals has a 160 BP, which is the highest gmax/max move base power in the game. This means even grassy glide will be hitting 160 BP(although ircc, rillaboom will then run 2 grass stab) In addition, it ignores the opponent's ability so it can hit through Fur Coat Persian-A, and Sap-Sipper Miltank.

Comparatively, Max Overgrowth only summons grassy terrain and has a lower BP. And since Rillaboom already summons grassy terrain upon dynamaxing this makes Max Overgrowth significantly less useful.

>

In continuation, of the Cloud Nine posts above, I believe Drampa should have cloud nine stripped from it completely, or at the very least force it to run Berserk if it's running Roost. Cloud Nine is far too niche on it, only helping it reduce the power of fire moves in sunlight, and water moves in rain, which it already resists. Slush Rush and Sand Rush pokemon also outspeed it as well, even without their speed bonus. I guess it's useful against rock types that get an SpD buff in sand, but that'll rarely come into play....

>

Allowing Contrary Shuckle. Ok don't get my wrong, sturdy is a great ability, and far superior to contrary a good portion of the time. Sturdy allows Shuckle to always set-up webs which are arguably the best hazard in the game. IF it already hasn't taken hazard damage. If shuckle is running not running HDB, you can still get OHKOed with hazard support.

Also, it's important to mention that very few threats can reliably OHKO Shuckle, with them being Dracovish (62.5%), full health choice specs Wailord, kygore, choice specs Pelipper, and a few other rain boosted pokemon. Sure some set-up pokemon can OHKO shuckle, but you definetly don't want them to set-up and Dynamax on you in the first place.

So what does Contrary do? Well not much... However, Contrary can turn possible 2HKO's from Max Darknesses and Max Phantasms into 3HKO's or even 4HKO's after the pokemon reverts to it's normal stage. Stalling Dynamax can give Shuckle another use after it's set up webs. Also although very niche, it can also benefit from the wide variety of moves that drop defence/spd including shadow ball, crunch, psychic, apple acid, fire lash etc.

I'm not saying Shuckle shouldn't run Sturdy. I'm not even saying Contrary should be run more than 20% of the time. However I do I propose Shuckle, have a small chance to run Contrary if it's not running boots, and is not a lead. Just the ability for shuckle to have Contrary can scare away Max Darkness and Max Phantasms.

Ok I'll be honest this argument is much worse than the other ones, and flawed then the others ones
 

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