Pokemon VGC 2010 DATES / rules announced for the US!

[Zog]

Oh yeah. XD

Thought it sounded stupid. I always think of selfdestruct as "suicide bomber", its Japanese name, which is so much more memorable. Personally I wouldn't use it though. The difficulties in getting it are too large, and you can't really get decent IVs on it outside of FR/LG abuse which imo isn't legit. Obviously I never played in JAA or anything close (VGC 2009 was the first time there'd been a decent official tournament in the UK) so yeah really. And I still think someone should make a poll as to which rules we'd prefer in the US and Europe. Would give a good indication of how people feel about these new ones: Mike Liesik could have a look and get a general idea of how well these new refinements are being received here.

 

[drcossack]

A lot of people who played in the JAA have experience, because it is very similar.

SD mewtwo refers to self destruct, not swords dance.

Oh god, I hate the blow-up Mewtwo. Wasn't that exclusive to Gen 3 though? If everyone's going to use the HG/SS Mewtwo, that won't even be an issue.

 

[lati0s]

self destruct mewtwo wont be as good as it was in JAA becuase the new machanics on spread moves

 

[Sixonesix]

Oh yeah. XD

Thought it sounded stupid. I always think of selfdestruct as "suicide bomber", its Japanese name, which is so much more memorable. Personally I wouldn't use it though. The difficulties in getting it are too large, and you can't really get decent IVs on it outside of FR/LG abuse which imo isn't legit. Obviously I never played in JAA or anything close (VGC 2009 was the first time there'd been a decent official tournament in the UK) so yeah really. And I still think someone should make a poll as to which rules we'd prefer in the US and Europe. Would give a good indication of how people feel about these new ones: Mike Liesik could have a look and get a general idea of how well these new refinements are being received here.

Pokemon RNG abused in FR/LG (even with VBA) were fair play last year. I would say getting Selfdestruct Mewtwo isn't much harder than getting a Selfdestruct Snorlax, aside from being required to use VBA for the former.

Although I heard there was a way to do it without using VBA, I'm not sure what happened to that.

 

[Zog]

Yeah that's what I mean. If you have to use an emulator to get it, personally I'd consider that cheating because it couldn't be done on the actual game. They pass the hack checks obviously but I wouldn't consider it legit per se.

Anyway, I think I might get to work collecting the guys for my team. It's in its beta draft right now and is looking excellent. Might be a little soon... but hopefully the rules will stick. 2 ubers per team is really quite cool, plus it works in attracting a lot of people to the events. Ubers allowed = a lot of kids turn up = $$$ for TCPI = more venues = fun for everyone. Hopefully.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

the cardgame, also Mike Lesik who is in charge told me he wanted to have it different so that we didn't have ubers at worlds, he reiterated this to pshfe several days ago

Do we really know how much say Mike Lesik has on the matter though? At some point the winners of the Japanese tourneys will play the winner of the other tourneys in Worlds. If the rulesets of the qualifers differed from country to country, which ruleset is used for Worlds? I really can't see Gamefreak shafting the Japanese players by forcing them to play a different metagame than the one that got them to Worlds (while keeping everyone else in the same metagame that they played in the qualifers).

The cardgame example is interesting though since it seems like the VGCs are headed in that direction (or at least that's the impression I'm getting from reading posts about Mike Lesik's intentions). How do they deal with differing rulesets when Japanese players play their international counterparts?

Yeah that's what I mean. If you have to use an emulator to get it, personally I'd consider that cheating because it couldn't be done on the actual game. They pass the hack checks obviously but I wouldn't consider it legit per se.

You and me both. But it doesn't matter what you or I think is cheating. Unless there's a way to check for it, the loophole will exist and there will be people to exploit it.

 

[Ming-Ming]

Oh man, this is going to be nice. The Auto-Level thing's probably one of the bigger things I find awesome. Then again, that means I'm pretty much "forced" to purchase Hg or Ss if I want to even try and enter the tournament. ... Then the fact that I have to transfer over 90 of my best pokémon to Hg... Though the chance of battlin' with other pokémon fans outbalance ~$40 + ~3 hours of time, right? ;^^

 

[Tyler]

Oh man, this is going to be nice. The Auto-Level thing's probably one of the bigger things I find awesome. Then again, that means I'm pretty much "forced" to purchase Hg or Ss if I want to even try and enter the tournament. ... Then the fact that I have to transfer over 90 of my best pokémon to Hg... Though the chance of battlin' with other pokémon fans outbalance ~$40 + ~3 hours of time, right? ;^^

$40 and 3 hours is definitely worth it when your there with a bunch of pokefans like yourself.


I actually like the new rules. It lets me use different kinds of pokemon and strategies. Hopefully they keep these rules.

 

[Sudo]

Simply beautiful!...

I had been wondering if an auto-leveling feature had been implemented for local wireless in HGSS, and with the confirmation of the new rule set for VGC Japan it's excellent news.

 

[BlueCookies]

It seems most of the ones saying Mike Lisek has a good shot at changing the rules, are those who don't want to use ubers. He really has almost no shot, for reasons stated by Little Green Yoda. Since the world championships have included more countries each year, they will be more complicated if different rules are being used. Those who qualified using the rules that won't be used at worlds are now screwed, as they have to come up with a new team in ~3 weeks. Also, the rule change at worlds this year was on a very small scale, as 3 items with only 1 being usable is nothing compared to 11 or so pokemon being allowed. Also, the fact that the 3 berries were allowed was in Japan's favor since they were allowed to use them in the qualifying tournaments. It was really us who had to change our ruleset to match their ruleset.

 

[drcossack]

It seems most of the ones saying Mike Lisek has a good shot at changing the rules, are those who don't want to use ubers. He really has almost no shot, for reasons stated by Little Green Yoda. Since the world championships have included more countries each year, they will be more complicated if different rules are being used. Those who qualified using the rules that won't be used at worlds are now screwed, as they have to come up with a new team in ~3 weeks. Also, the rule change at worlds this year was on a very small scale, as 3 items with only 1 being usable is nothing compared to 11 or so pokemon being allowed. Also, the fact that the 3 berries were allowed was in Japan's favor since they were allowed to use them in the qualifying tournaments. It was really us who had to change our ruleset to match their ruleset.

Right. I don't really care about Ubers being added - there's only a select group anyway, even if they're the ones who are likely to have the most impact (disclaimer: I'm not saying that including Pokemon like Darkrai and Arceus wouldn't, because obviously it would. Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza will probably be the 3 that stand out the most though.)

At first, I wasn't too thrilled about the possibility of weather running rampant, but I did a few practice battles before the rules were announced, and I found a way to beat it. If nothing else, I'm predicting that the Ubers will cause the 2010 VGC metagame to become even more offensively oriented.

 

[thebattleax]

I'm probably going to participate in this tournament, but I'm still pissed that Shaymin and Darkrai aren't allowed. I'm also more angered that my list of VGC move restrictions in the C&C forum is obselete. :(

I'm still glad that they FINALLY fixed the auto-level for Wireless...now to start preparing my team...

 

[POKEMONBATTLEBRAIN]

@mattj = I have my secret sources for Japanese information, but Mike probably gets it directly from whatever governing body in Japan organizes these tournaments and sets the rules. ;)


@mike leisik discussion = I'm not sure to what extent his power goes to. He might be able to say something like "most americans don't want ubers" or something like that, but if Japan decides something and wants it for worlds, he might have no choice but to give in. Either way with whatever happens, I don't mind, but I certainly wouldn't mind if it were non ubers, since all of last year's pokemon could be used again. :P

I suppose we will just have to wait until around Jan. 1 2010 to see the official USA rules.

Since the world championships have included more countries each year, they will be more complicated if different rules are being used. Those who qualified using the rules that won't be used at worlds are now screwed, as they have to come up with a new team in ~3 weeks. Also, the rule change at worlds this year was on a very small scale, as 3 items with only 1 being usable is nothing compared to 11 or so pokemon being allowed. Also, the fact that the 3 berries were allowed was in Japan's favor since they were allowed to use them in the qualifying tournaments. It was really us who had to change our ruleset to match their ruleset.

That's another point, if each continent went separate ways for their rules, when they all meet up whose ruleset takes priority? If all were the same format, this issue is eliminated, so that might be a factor in the decision I'd think.

 

[Alaka]

$40 and 3 hours is definitely worth it when your there with a bunch of pokefans like yourself.


I actually like the new rules. It lets me use different kinds of pokemon and strategies. Hopefully they keep these rules.

Yes, you gain a couple of pokemon and strategies, but the amount you loose by the over-centralization caused by allowing the ubers will cut down horribly on alot of what would be possible so yes you get a couple new things, but all together the total number of viable thins is reduced drastically in my opinion which is obviously a horrible change

to draw a parallel to the ou instance that most members are familiar with, yes there are ways to beat garchomp, yes having garchomp does add another pokemon to the game with several sets and strategies based around it, but garchomp overall is centralizing and so should be banned

every single argument for allowing ubers stated in this thread holds true in singles too, but OU is still the much more enjoyabe popular and balanced tier

 

[lati0s]

Yes, you gain a couple of pokemon and strategies, but the amount you loose by the over-centralization caused by allowing the ubers will cut down horribly on alot of what would be possible so yes you get a couple new things, but all together the total number of viable thins is reduced drastically in my opinion which is obviously a horrible change

I highly doubt you have very much expierience with this metsgame so you can't know that.

every single argument for allowing ubers stated in this thread holds true in singles too, but OU is still the much more enjoyabe popular and balanced tier

a lot of people including me really enjoy playing ubers, there is no general concencus that OU is more fun

 

[TheNatureHunter]

I pray these VGC rules make it to the states as my prized Giratina/sub ghost team can be played. I was worried I had to remake another team. Rebread, EV train, ribbons all that thx for the news that made my day.

 

[Nightmare]

I may not be 100% right on this:

But

1. Pokemon is Japanese. So if the Japanese make the rules, then Mike Liesik has to abide by them. The card game tried to change the modified format years ago and got chewed out by Japan. So those hoping for OU are out of luck.

2. If I wasn't in a current spite with Nintendo about a few things that happened in JAA, I'd be all over this current format. Uber Doubles is my favorite metagame by far and I enjoy it far more than OU and other formats. The games go faster and quite frankly I don't have an hour to be sitting around in a stall match when I have work and other things to do as well as possibly enjoy myself at a tourney with my friends.

3. Having played with limited ubers clauses before and playing on PBR against some of the Japanese, it isn't as unbalanced and unbeatable as people make it out to be. In fact, some people make anti-rain dance teams and things and they hose certain uber teams down.

4. Auto-level is a godsend. How many tournaments have I run and I had complaints of that people can't match levels and it ruins things and causes arguments? THANK GOD!

-James

 

[Picollo]

as i thought (just minus the 2 00ber rule)...i like these rules, atleast we will have some strategy....just beware before wheater and the dragons loool...i dont think that SD Mewtwo will be used that much cuz it doenst like wheater nor the scarfers lol..but dunno...atleast my pre-preperations weere worth to try but hey its almost a year untl then teams will change a lot.

 

[Pokérob]

I highly doubt you have very much expierience with this metsgame so you can't know that.


a lot of people including me really enjoy playing ubers, there is no general concencus that OU is more fun

I think this is true in a way, you cannot be critical about something you have not yet played or seen happen. You can say there were more strategies but this was a basis in singles more then VGC. I didn't see much that completely took me by suprise in the nationals and I expect 2010 to give us lot's.

Face it, in my opinion they won't change these rules. Tough luck, bite the bullet and learn a new game just like everyone does. If you don't want to, then don't enter this year.

 

[TheNatureHunter]

I participated in the JAA and can safely say that even the weather teams ran shop but I don't believe that is reason to fear. New priority move pike ice shard can decimate opponents and it's just not uber weather teams neither as an ice team with Abamasnow and a ground team with hippowdon can handle. People forget that lower a speed pokemons weather effects take priority so naturally the non uber pokemon have an advantage. I personally have an ice team that I am proud to take to VGC if need be.

 

[Alaka]

That's another point, if each continent went separate ways for their rules, when they all meet up whose ruleset takes priority? If all were the same format, this issue is eliminated, so that might be a factor in the decision I'd think.

Well, the tournament is in the US so apparently our rules get to take priority

I may not be 100% right on this:

But

1. Pokemon is Japanese. So if the Japanese make the rules, then Mike Liesik has to abide by them. The card game tried to change the modified format years ago and got chewed out by Japan. So those hoping for OU are out of luck.

Gamefreak is Japanese but according to Wikipedia:

In 2009, Pokémon USA and its UK counterpart merged to become The Pokémon Company International, which will handle all non-Asia Pokémon operations under the administration of Kenji Okubo. Australian operations are to still be under control of Nintendo Australia, which is headed by Managing Director, Rose Lappin.

tpci is American and European and they are who puts on and funds the tournaments in the U.S., so I'm not saying that he will, I'm hopeful but no too sure, but I am relatively sure that a rule change is a possibility, not a certainty, but a possibility yes


also to address you point three, you don't see where that is a bad thing, that to be successful you have to use an anti-rain team, do you not see how horrible and over centralizing that is, not everything needs to be Rain, Anti-Rain, Anti-Anti-Rain, and then the random Trick Room and Sun

 

[Zog]

I'd actually say this is even less centralized than this year's VGC.

Just look at what was used: basically every team had at least one of Metagross, Snorlax and Dusknoir. There was also a distinct loop of advantages, sort of trick room > goodstuffs > rain > trick room (you can get a lot more complex than that but that's the simplified version). Seeing as this metagame's been going 2 years now, and people are getting the hang of it, I actually think it's a wonderful idea to shake it up and force people to come up with something new instead of sitting on their laurels.

And even then, it's not overcentralised. You get to pick 2 kingpins out of the list of ubers, which your team will be based around. All are equally viable, and all are equally counterable. None of the allowed ubers are completely broken. You think Kyogre's going to be too popular? Make sure your team can deal with rain, then, and you'll probably do extremely well. The person who wins this won't be using a bog-standard Kyogre rain team.

The idea here is to make a team that can beat anything, and use it to full effect. The 2 allowed ubers make that holy grail principle of tournament Pokémon easier to achieve.

 

[Alaka]

You just contradicted yourself, you said that it won't be centralizing, but then you said that the winner will be running a specifically ant-rain team, I'm not sure but thats what I would consider overcentralizing

that loop thing is bullshit btw, I've never understood why people kept saying that

 

[Zog]

You just contradicted yourself, you said that it won't be centralizing, but then you said that the winner will be running a specifically ant-rain team, I'm not sure but thats what I would consider overcentralizing

that loop thing is bullshit btw, I've never understood why people kept saying that

Uh I didn't actually. I said they'd use something unusual as opposed to something people will expect.

And yeah the loop isn't necessarily true. It's a guideline of difficulty rather than "Who will win". As in, if you're using a standard rain team you'll probably find it difficult to beat goodstuffs. As I did... And that's why I only made the quarter finals at London.

 

[ultimatedra]

Here is a quote from Mike Liesik on this issue from the Pokemon OP Forums
*You must be affiliated with TPCI in some way to view the forum.

At Battle Roads last weekend, I was asked what rules eventual video game tournaments would have for the coming season. When I looking at the Tournament Rules, the video game section was blank.

Do we have any guidance on what to recommend for players who wish to practice their teams all year? This also may be good guidance for Leagues who wish to have a standard set of rules for their League play.

We likely won't have tournament rules for VG ready to go until the end of this year. For now, it would probably be best to have them use the VGC format from the 2009 series.

So no VG OP events this season for PTO's?

Sorry, I can't say anything one way or the other at this point.

Hope this makes people happy. He has not released any info about it hitting closer to home this time, but he said to tell everybody to use last years rules.

Expect the offical rules around the end of December/early January.

~Ulti