• Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!

Pokemon vs Chess

This summer, as with most summers, i went to visit my grandparents in crete. it was alot of fun, and nice to see my family again. anyway, my granda and i are pretty big chess fans, and we ended up playing quite abit. later, when i was playing on diamond, i wondered, which of the two games is more tactical? Pokemon or chess?


Arguments for pokemon
there are 493 pokemon to date
there are 467 attacks, some tactical, some offensive (and splash)
requires great prdiction skills to win
the possibilites of a match are much bigger than chess



Arguments for chess
an age old game of sophistication
requires a tactical mind
a chess master is sure to be a man of intellect
"pokemon is for little kiddies" (not my words, trust me)
people only use about 50 of the pokemon available
"children choosing pokemon over chess shows a decline in western culture.. etc" (again, not my words)

post your ideas, and your arguments for both sides, and anything you think this people reading this thread would be interested in!
 
Pokemon has tons of luck and unpredictable sets, whereas chess
has everything sprawled out and it's always your fault for losing.
 
Well Toby (saw your name, thought Id post) I see it this way:

Pokemon requires of course a completely different chain of thought: even the idea of winning is different (from total KOs to checkmating), so to compare the two on outset seems tough. But then, once prediction comes in and "hax" removed majorly by clauses, the similarities shine through in places of prediction in thought processes etc.

Although you can have a strategy pre-game chess, this is more solidifyed in pokemon through teambuilding. And evenmoreso is the 2v2 play, where the whole team is centered around one idealology (ie. rain dance, trick room) and you are locked into one chain of thought to beat the oponent.

Where you suddenly realise the games are not as similar is the number crunching aspect. The EVs, the damage calculations.

But Im still not 100% on any of my ideas tbh, but thats where my thoughts are atm. Will keep an eye on this thread!
 
By strict definition, chess is more "tactical" since there is zero luck involved.

On another note, from what I've heard, chess is pretty boring/repetitive at top level play. I'm decent at it but would never plan on playing at a "competitive" level.
 
I consider chess a pretty much perfect game if you are looking for a game that requires thought and only tests you on that, and no other factors such as luck with dicerolls and such. Pokemon is more like poker than it is like chess.
 
As much as we want to have Pokemon more like Chess, It's not going to happen. Though if there were no critical hits or "hax" then maybe Pokemon would be less "lucked" based?
 
It would be sorta boring and way too predictable without CHs, but clausing OHKO/Self-KO/Freeze/Sleep is ok.

Eh, they both have their points, but as someone else said, "metagame"(relatively) are way too damn predictable, and long.I can't see myself going in a Chess tourney, but I do like playing it.

Also, in Pokemon, you have 6 different Pokemons that do 6 totally different roles(unless you are in Doubles), and Chess has Pawns, Knights, Rooks, Bishop, Queen and King, which are also 6.It really depends how you look at it, and they are alike...

The CH is what differentiates Chess from Pokemon...and the different stuff Pokemons can do, whereas Chess pieces always do the same, I.E. Ice Beam freezes, Ice Shard/HP Ice doesn't, but it's still an ice move, etc.
 
Chess is the most balanced game. Pure skill, no luck.

Pokemon is a heavily skill oriented game and there are many aspects of it you cannot control.
 
Chess is cool for games with nothing involved, if you lose it was your fault. However in Pokemon its not always your fault "cough" hax.
 
Chess and Pokemon both require an immense amount of smarts to be good at it.
There are many mechanics to Pokemon like the many tactics of chess, that have to be aqquired over time, and by playing matches. Put simply, they are similar in the fact that you must Learn about the game and the role of each piece.
 
Similarity: To be good at both you should be thinking several moves ahead always - how can I get my Garchomp into a favorable situation to force a swap and get that free Swords Dance? It might take a couple moves and swaps to enable that and you should be thinking ahead to how to get to that point. Chess you always have to be thinking about your next move(s).

Differences: Chess you always know whats has been eliminated and what your opponent has left. Pokemon has that element of surprise when teams aren't revealed until you start playing the game and go through the match.

And of course Pokemon has tons of luck in it while Chess you can't really be "lucky" and win.
 
More luck does not mean less tactics.

Naughts and Crosses has no luck involved, and yet is not a very tactical game.

If there is more tactics in Chess, it's not because there is less luck, it's just because there are more tactics.

Have a nice day.
 
Both take tactics and a strategic mind. I think Pokemon has a lot more variety and surprise involved. There are so many pokemon and each has multiple roles it can play. It is unknown what the opponent has in pokemon, where as in chess all the pieces are out in the open. They are actually very alike.

With the way things are become so technologically based, I could see pokemon (or something equivalent) becoming the Chess of the future. I can certainly see myself playing this as an old man.
 
As was said earlier in chess you can see what the opponent has on the board, whereas in Pokemon you don't know your opponent's Pokemon until they switch in. That means that in Pokemon you can surprise your opponent - the game could potentially go either way until you're down to his last Pokemon. In chess each player can immediately see the possibilities open to their opponent, so they don't have to make the same sort of contingency plans. As a chess game progresses the possibilities open to players steadily decrease, which doesn't happen (at least, not to the same extent) in Pokemon.

There's no element of luck in chess, though, so in that sense I guess you could see it as 'fairer'.
 
Things like hax are bound to come up as reasons to prefer pokemon over chess, but chess involves a certain aspect of luck as well, such as keeping your fingers crossed and praying that your opponent doesn't spot the one move that will enable you to check his king while threatening the Queen with a different piece, and blocking it with a piece of his or her own.

Honestly, I got into chess a little before Pokemon (I'm 20 and I've been playing chess for 10 years now). Chess has always been this classic game of strategy where certain tactics often prove more efficient than others, just as some pokemon are better than others. Pokemon however, is a game that has been constantly evolving ever since 2nd gen, and although chess has been played since the 15th century and has evolved very little, it seems to have lost none of it's appeal to younger people, judging by the chess club I used to chair at my high school.

To be honest, I consider myself a better chess player than I am at Pokemon. I made the national finals of the UK chess tournament aged 14.
 
so i think we're now pretty much agreed that chess is the more tactical, as there is only errors from the players themselves, but which do you think is better? i think i'd agree about hax giving unpredictable advantages. its like some noob against a grand master suddenly finding out his pawn can move in every direction, and can change the game. obviously the chess master would still win, but i think you get my point.
 
so i think we're now pretty much agreed that chess is the more tactical, as there is only errors from the players themselves, but which do you think is better?
Actually I was saying that this isnt the case at all. The point is that chess may be more tactical, but if it is, the reason definitely isnt because there are only errors from the players.

Have a nice day.
 
I think I have to say pokemon here. Yes, pokemon does rely on luck in some aspects of the game, but that's part of the stratedgy. It's waying the chances of what is and isn't going to be a risky move. And as it has been said, there are 493 pokemon and 467 attacks.
 
chess involves a certain aspect of luck as well, such as keeping your fingers crossed and praying that your opponent doesn't spot the one move that will enable you to check his king while threatening the Queen with a different piece, and blocking it with a piece of his or her own.

dunno how you ever got good at chess playing like that. serrously, you don't win games by "crossing your fingers and hoping for the opponent to not see your move," at least not at high level play when they pretty much see every move.

m0nkfish said:
pokemon is about as similar to chess as it is to fantasy football

not really. pokemon and chess have a few similarities, though you have to use your imagination a bit to see some of them. pretty much the biggest similarity is that long-term thinking is crucial in both pokemon and chess (and I'm not talking about looking 5 moves further into the game, I mean really long term). in pokemon, let's say you're running an offensive team. the moment you start the game, you have to put on your thinking cap, thinking about what kind of team you're going to face based on the lead and making really minor predictions and whatnot. as the game progresses and you see a few more pokemon, you have to decide what walls will be able to beat your primary sweeper and how to take them down. you have to decide what pokemon you need and what you're able to sacrifice to cement the win. you have to figure out a way to get your sweeper the free turn it needs as well. in chess, from the beginning you play your opening, and your opponent can react in many ways to it, leading to all manner of variations that are going to decide the type of game that is being played. in chess, you have to think about the long-term as well. you have to put your pieces in good spots, gaining very very slight positional advantages. and I know "putting your pieces in good spots" sounds kinda vague, but try to bear with me as I'm not the best at putting my thoughts into words. when I say "putting your pieces in good spots" I mean don't just develop (bring out your pieces) aimlessly. put your pieces in spots where they do something, whether it's pinning an important enemy piece, overdefending a key central pawn, or simply putting pressure on the opponent by covering a large amount of their space and keeping them from making moves that they'd like to make. at high level play, usually most wins or losses are decided by the long term thinking here, whoever had better positional play usually wins from here, assuming that nobody makes any huge tactical blunders. in the middlegame, stuff is much more tactically intense; this is where you'll be trying to make use of that positional advantage you have or make up for bad play in the beginning. the "pace of the match" is paramount in chess, just like it is in pokemon. whoever can control the pace, the one making the threats, has what chess players call the initiative. the player with the initiative usually gets it because of superior positional play to that of his opponent and can usually win if he keeps it for the remainder of the match. the initiative often leads to huge attacks in the middlegame, and just like pokemon, you have to decide what you don't need, not by looking at the walls and what can break them, but by hard calculations. because generally, if you're making sacrifices, unless you win huge amounts of material or checkmate at the end of your attack, you're going to lose. it's also important not to let the other guy cover a threat of yours while threatening something of his own at the same time, becuase that can lead to counterattacks, and if your pieces are offensively geared, you can often have no answer to this, just like in pokemon: if you sacrifice too many guys and suddenly can't break past their defenses, or if they have a certain pokemon you didn't expect them to have, they can usually either outstall your team that has been weakened by sacrifices, or bring in a sweeper you didn't expect them to have and run clean through your team.

then of course you've got the luck factor that doesn't affect chess, but otherwise, the whole concept of long term thinking is pretty similar. and while "minor tactics" (the ones that involve what I quoted from bad wolf and other similar stuff) are pretty much eliminated in high level chess play due to the fact that the other guy is going to see everything, minor tactics can involve just making a trick play to gain a positional advantage. and then of course you've got to look 9 or 10 moves into the game when you're attacking or up against an attack. then of course you've got openings like the dragon sicilian (yes, there's an opening variation called the dragon sicilian, or sicilian dragon) where basically both sides try to attack as much as they can and whatever attack reaches the king first wins, you've got to not waste any moves, and if you do, you've got to figure it out early by looking many moves in, so that you can pull the attack back before the enemy gets too close.

ok, I'm starting to rant about chess, so I better stop. what I want you to get from this is that a lot of the concepts are pretty similar.
 
Nice little rant there, I can't believe I read all that lol. I definitely agree with what you say somewhat, but in Pokemon its more of a "guess" than actual thinking ahead. People always use the word "prediction" buts most of the time its just a goddamn guess, "Is he going to use EQ or Outrage?" Some times, usually end game when there are a few moves left you have to think ahead, but people dont need to do that very often. Guessing is a luck aspect just as much as hax is which really differentiates chess from pokemon.
 
the nature of the tactics of pokemon and the tactics of chess is different, i.e. predictions verusus thinking ahead a few moves. that's what I was kinda trying to say. but the long-term thinking aspect is virtually the same, though you're using words like "garchomp" rather than "isolated queen-pawn"
 
Back
Top