Other Poll: Steel - Nerfed or Buffed?

[SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant]

A note about the poll: If you feel that neither answer is the one for you (goddamn picky people :P), please specify what you mean and why you feel that way in a reply.

This generation, Steel has seen some notable changes, and not all of them pleasant.

The introduction of Fairy types is a mixed bag for Steels: on one hand, Steel is super-effective on Fairy, giving Steel STAB a bit more use in the metagame, and Steels may have even more potential switch-ins, with yet another resistance under their belts. However, Fairies also, to an extent steel (Ahahahahaaaaaaah someone help me) the main niche of Steel types: their resistance to Dragon moves, and spin it into something better (an immunity to Dragon).

Defensively, Steel-types have definitely taken a hit. Two of their previous resistances (Ghost and Dark) now hit for neutral damage. Combine that with the fact that Ghost is looking to be one of the premier attacking types this Generation (with the nerf of Dragons), and suddenly the god-tanks we've come to love are going to be taking quite a bit more damage than before.

Do you think the positives and negatives brought to Steel types this Generation balance each other out, or does one side greatly outweigh the other?

Also, if you consider it a nerf, how bad do you think it is? What do you see some particular Steel types doing in reaction to this change? I doubt we'll be seeing Steel types tumbling down the usage ladder a ton, but still interesting to think about.

 

[Twins]

I'd say that Steels definitely got nerfed. Doesn't help that Fairies are fairy fairly very rare, at least in the 20 or so games I've played these past few days. Still, no other type comes close to the defensive prowess Steel has. Sure, Mega Gengar can how rip Skarmory and Scizor a new one, but they're not falling from OU anytime soon.

 

[SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant]

Seems like things are definitely leaning towards the nerf side of things as of now...

I'd say that Steels definitely got nerfed. Doesn't help that Fairies are fairy fairly very rare, at least in the 20 or so games I've played these past few days. Still, no other type comes close to the defensive prowess Steel has. Sure, Mega Gengar can how rip Skarmory and Scizor a new one, but they're not falling from OU anytime soon.

Thanks, Twins. I edited OP to include the idea of how particular Steel types may be affected by this nerf.

 

[FinalEquin0x]

Definitely Nerfed on this one.

They are not the same mongers they were last generation. One pokemon I believe in particular that has been affected particularly hard is Jirachi. Since its introduction in Gen 3, Jirachi has been a powerful mon. Now it takes super effective damage from three very common pokemon since introduction of new gen, MGengar, Aegislash, and Greninja. While Greninja doesn't hit it particularly hard, Aegislash and Gengar hit it with incredible amounts of power. It now has four resistances compared to before when its plethora of resists and defenses allowed it to bounce in and out of pokemon battles, and take minimum damage.

 

[nikovan]

It's more of a give and take. They lost the ability to wall certain attacks while walling one of the most important ones while hitting it for super effective damage.

It's a tradeoff. Two resistances for one resistance and something to hit super effectively.

 

[666lumberjack]

To be honest I see the resistances changes as less of a steel nerf and more of a dark and ghost buff - the latter especially, I mean how many decent pokemon are there than can tank strong shadow balls no problem? Steel is still a very strong defensive type, although it doesn't have quite as much synergy with some other Pokemon now - Celetran is breakable by spamming Shadow Ball, for example.

 

[Bynine]

I know bulky offense is more popular now, but I think this was the final nail in Metagross's OU coffin. Those two new weaknesses are nasty for it. I suppose that goes for (ppphhht) Metang, too.

 

[noobcubed]

One Steel-type got quite a big buff: Bisharp. Dark/Steel is a pretty awesome typing, since it can actually take on Fairies unlike many Dark-types, and it resists Dark and Ghost anyway. Plus it seems to be the perfect counter to Sticky Web: it gets +2 attack just for switching into Sticky Web, and considering its claim to fame is a crazily powerful Sucker Punch, it doesn't really care about the speed drop. Not caring about Sticky Web is pretty good news for Metagross too, actually.

 

[azureleaf17]

I know bulky offense is more popular now, but I think this was the final nail in Metagross's OU coffin. Those two new weaknesses are nasty for it. I suppose that goes for (ppphhht) Metang, too.

As much as I hate to see one of my favorite Pokemon take its fall from three generations in OU, I sadly have to agree with this sentiment. Though it has 9 resistances and 1 immunity, that's something that comparable to many other Steel-types. However, one last straw for it to grasp at is that Fairy-types may mitigate the overuse of Dark-types in this metagame.

That's a very thin and brittle straw. BUT I'm still going to be the one person running AgiliGross in OU :D

 

[MechPlasma]

I'd say it got nerfed alright, but not significantly. The way I see it:

1: Ghost and Dark both get a bit more focus this generation, from what I've noticed, but it's still up-in-the-air as to how popular Fairy moves will be. So far... I've seen them around a good bit!

2: However, with the addition of Fairy and more Ghost types, I'm expecting a strong reduction in the excessive number of Fighting types that Gen5 had (or was that just OU? I can't remember). Which is great, because they were Steel's worst enemy! Let's not forget about that when actually deciding if Steel is worse off now.

3: As for attacking, the super-effectiveness against Fairy types could bring Steel attacks away from "This is worse than Normal" to a move you might pick for actual type effectiveness. Aaaalthough I'm not counting on it - fairy moves seem to be getting around, but fairy types are not.

4: Metagross and Jirachi take it in the aaassssss! Which sucks, because they were my two favourite Pokémon. But the others... I don't see them being all that negatively affected. Having two more types that take just neutral damage from isn't that big a deal.



Basically, what I'm saying is that it all depends on how popular Fairy gets, and how unpopular Fighting becomes.


Also, I'm not actually seeing any of them changing tiers (Megas aside). Even with their four weaknesses, Metagross and Jirachi still seem too beastly/tricksy for UU. It's not enough of a nerf to bring barely-ubers Excadrill or Genesect back. Lucario gets an extra weakness, but Lucario vs Ghosts isn't a good match-up to begin with and it's already great against Darks. And to the best of my knowledge, none of the others are skimming their tiers. ...maybe Skarmory? That one could be just me.

EDIT: oh, forgot how many Dark types there are in UU. Yeah... yeah, Metagross might lose it's place in OU after all.

I suppose that goes for (ppphhht) Metang, too.

Metang is my actually favourite Pokémon, and even I never use him competitively. Yeah, I don't think anyone will be shedding a tear for the ol' @.

On the plus side, in the home consoles, Metang had the best animations! So... he's got that. Hopefully. JET MODE WHOOSH!

 

[Cherub Agent]

However, Fairies also, to an extent steel (Ahahahahaaaaaaah someone help me) the main niche of Steel types: their resistance to Dragon moves, and spin it into something better (an immunity to Dragon).

see, this is something i sort of disagree with. while its nice that fairies are immune to dragon, this is only really applicable for choiced dragon-types. due to the fact that outrage and draco meteor both suffer drawbacks when they hit steel-types, you can keep them either locked into outrage or suffer the halving of special attack. this is particularly useful on steel-types with recovery such as skarmory and jirachi. fairies however spring an outraging dragon out of its lock, and dont cause a specially based one to suffer a -2 to its special attack. non choiced dragons can then hit them with their coverage moves.

i also like the fact that steel picked up a fairy resistance, which means that the ever so common dragsteel combination will definetly still remain strong. overall id say that the type got buffed more than it got nerfed. having stuff like jirachi weak to pursuit and to gengar is annoying, but keep in mind it still has super effective stab moves against both of these.

 

[Slheyas]

Nerfed.

Steel might hit fairies for SE damage, but two of the top tier fairy threats, M-Mawile and Azumarill take neutral damage from it, which is backed by reasonable bulk on both Pokemons. (50/125/95 for M-Mawile and 100/80/80 for Azumarill).

Those lost resistances hurt a lot, not resisting Sucker Punch anymore is especially bad.

 

[Aldrius]

Well, plus, fairy and steel have totally different weaknesses. Fighting a dragon type just got a lot easier now that you can swap out to something that resists it's coverage. (Steel types totally cover fairies' weaknesses)

While they won't be the end all-defensive walls they use to be, I think in terms of SYNERGY they got a huge boost.

 

[Tsplodey]

Nerfed. Steels just aren't scary any more when you can throw unresisted Shadow Balls and the like at them.

 

[Skyblade12]

It was neither nerfed nor buffed. It was balanced.
Steel was ridiculously overpowered defensively, being capable of resisting over half of the types in the game. The Dark and Ghost resistances never even really made sense (despite it being really easy to understand most of the type matchups, including Steel being Super-Effective against Fairy). Game Freak just threw everything onto this one type and massively unbalanced it.
I think they tried to compensate for that by making it ridiculously weak offensively. But all it resulted in was Steel (and part-Steel) types centering around other moves. How many Scizors ran Steel moves? None. The lack of STAB didn't cripple them.
Both of these changes were necessary. Steel needed another reason to be used offensively, and it needed some serious balance work done to its ridiculous resistances.

 

[L0calLEGEND]

BUT I'm still going to be the one person running AgiliGross in OU :D

Agiligross in OU eh? I could never run the set that good in OU. It does wonders in Ubers, especially against CM arceus forms. Gets walled by palkia though. :(

 

[AOPSUser]

How many Scizors ran Steel moves? None.

So you haven't fought any of the 22% of OU teams that use Bullet Punch on Scizor?

Also, I disagree with Steel getting nerfed. Yes, Dark and Ghost got buffed. But most of the OU mons that use Dark or Ghost STAB already had something that hits Steels harder (Earthquake for TTar, Focus Blast for Gengar, Fire Blast/Earth Power for Hydreigon). You also can't just chuck Shadow Ball on some random mon and hope it works. For instance:

252 SpA Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 81-95 (24.77 - 29.05%) -- possible 5HKO (WITH Steel no longer resisting Ghost)
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 124-146 (37.92 - 44.64%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I mean, they might do some damage to Aegislash. But let's see how much damage that is.

252 SpA Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash (Shield): 115-136 (35.49 - 41.97%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

That's a super effective attack. So despite losing their Dark and Ghost resistances, Steels did not suffer much, if at all. In fact, they got buffed, since they can now beat Fairies. The only Fairy that reliably OHKOes all Steel types is Belly Drum Azumarill after a Drum. Mega Mawile can 2HKO most Steels with Fire Fang. Clefable can do damage with Fire Blast. Most of the rest of the Fairies have no options against Steels.

 

[Skyblade12]

So you haven't fought any of the 22% of OU teams that use Bullet Punch on Scizor?

No, I did. Just getting confused and poorly wording things.

But there's a reason why Bullet Punch came out in Gen IV. Because GF wanted to boost Steel offensively. Introducing some new moves did that. Adding in a new type strength is the same thing.

 

[Tribute]

Buffed as a move. Things will run steel coverage moves etc to pop faries now.

Raped as a typing.

 

[Tsplodey]

It was neither nerfed nor buffed. It was balanced.

If Steel is overall less powerful now than it used to be, it was nerfed. Was it justified? Probably.

 

[Lovedrive]

Wait I thought Dragon resistance was actually better then a Dragon immunity.

 

[KingNeedlesThe1st]

Steels were nerfed with the loss of the Ghost- and Dark-type resistances, though that hardly means that it sends a death knell to the typing. It helps that the most powerful Ghost- and Dark-type STABs commonly used in OU are only 80 BP (Phantom Force is 90, but it has poor distribution, and those who can use it will rarely ever see the light of day).

 

[MechPlasma]

Wait I thought Dragon resistance was actually better then a Dragon immunity.

You're... gonna have to explain that one.

 

[Haruno]

Nerfed, don't see why you would think otherwise. Losing two resistances in dark/ghost isn't worth the now SE coverage (still not that good of a coverage type) and resistance to fairy.

 

[Sprocket]

Steels were nerfed with the loss of the Ghost- and Dark-type resistances, though that hardly means that it sends a death knell to the typing. It helps that the most powerful Ghost- and Dark-type STABs commonly used in OU are only 80 BP (Phantom Force is 90, but it has poor distribution, and those who can use it will rarely ever see the light of day).

I actually like Phantom Force as a move. Its just hard as hell to justify it over other Shadow Claw, Shadow Punch, and Shadow Ball. I see it as a better tool in doubles/VGC than singles, since it will pierce Protect and itself act as a pseudo-Protect (just need to beware those pesky Dark and Normal switch-ins that can tank it)