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Porygon2

Garganator

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#233 - Porygon2
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Typing
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NormalType.png

Weaknesses/Resistances
Immunity:
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x2.00:
FightingType.png


Normal typing with Porygon2 defenses is solid. 85/90/95 are enough to take many weaker hits, both special and physical. However in Generation 4 Porygon2 was quite unique pokemon - for first his best utility was in... OU Tier while being NU Pokemon. What this means ? This means that his best niche existed in OU tier thanks to one ability - Trace. Trace easily copies opponents ability, which you may use for itself before you switch out. Anyway, it means that Porygon2 could for example trace abilities, which absorb particular attacking types (Flash Fire from Heatran, Water Absorb from Vaporeon or Volt Absorb from Jolteon, making Porygon2 decent check to them), but it wasn't his main niche. Porygon2 was mainly used as a check for two most dominant physical attackers in OU in Dragon Dance Salamence and Gyarados. Porygon2 could easily switch in, Trace their Intimidiate and use it against them. But the problems starts here - Porygon2 usefulness was quite limited and those were the only really usable options for Porygon2 (well, it was also possible to Trace Natural Cure from Blissey and Toxic it, however Blissey still walled you making it a bit unreliable option). In other words Porygon2 was mainly a niche pokemon with really limited options. But those options were quite usefull (Porygon2 was really close to OU status few times), as Porygon2 was the only Pokemon capable in stopping Heatran, Gyarados and to some extent Salamence. However it started to change, mostly when MixMence set started to be popular and Porygon2 couldn't handle Brick Break/Outrage + Draco Meteor combination, switching with it extremely risky. And in case of Gyarados + Heatran you could easily find other good checks/counters in OU, with much higher usefulness then Porygon2. And this meant one thing - Porygon2 lost his best niche and landed in NU. The reason for landing in NU instead of still being solid UU Pokemon is simple - 4 Gen UU lack of usefull abilities made his best ability Trace quite useless, while Download was a bit situational. However, right now we have Generation 5, which introduced so many powerfull pokemon, which may easily break through any team with additional support. When you think of using Porygon2 against those offensive behemots you must think it's totally insane. However thanks to one little item and surprisingly usefull (however a bit situational) ability in Analyze Porygon2 may again find his little niche in countering most dangerous Pokemon in Generation 5. How ? I'll explain it soon.

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Stats
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Base Stat Total: 515
Base Stats: | 85 | 80 | 90 | 105 | 95 | 60 |

When you look at Porygon2 statistics you see one thing - they're perfectly balanced. Solid special attack, good defenses and mediocre attack with slow speed. However it means one thing - Porygon2 may do many things, while not being perfect in NONE. This makes things complicated, as nothing at first sight make it perfect. However in this Generation two important things changed, making Cyber Duck more usefull then ever.

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Abilities
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Download: User gets a stat boost depending on its opponent's stats.

Trace: Copies foe's ability.

Analyze: If you are last to attack, the move becomes more powerful.

All of those abilities have some uses. Trace copies abilities, and while situational, may be perfect in some cases, which I mentioned earlier when introducing Porygon2 OU performance in Gen 4. Download is quite neat ability, but you need to switch on Pokemon with lower Special Defense then Defense limiting it's usage even more. Analyze may look like the worst option, however Porygon2 has some things, which may make it usefull. It's slow, so many opponents will strikes first before Porygon2, allowing you to gain this important boost to finish few things. For first, right now Porygon2 as a NFE Pokemon boosts additional boost to both defenses, making it easier to take some hits. How much ? We still don't know, however GameFreak probably wanted to help many NFE Pokemon to gain popularity and probably we may assume that boost must be solid enough to make them usefull. In other words there's a good chance for at least 50% boost to both defenses. How much it affects Porygon2 ? Much more then you may think. And this is a niche that I wanted to mention. Really surprising niche. My posts ideas will be a pure therymon, however if they'll happen, Porygon2 may be one of the best checks against some Dragons and many non-fighting types physical attackers.

Learnable TMs:

TM03 - Psycho Shock, TM06 - Toxic, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM13 - Ice Beam, TM14 - Blizzard, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM24 - Thunderbolt, TM25 - Thunder, TM27 - Return, TM29 - Psychic, TM30 - Shadow Ball, TM32 - Double Team, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM46 - Thief, TM48 - Troll, TM57 - Charge Beam, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM70 - Flash, TM73 - Thunder Wave, TM77 - Psych Up, TM85 - Dream Eater, TM87 - Swagger, TM90 - Substitute, TM92 - Trick Room

Level-up Moves:

Porygon2: Lv1: Conversion 2, Lv1: Tackle, Lv1: Conversion, Lv1: Defense Curl, Lv7: Psybeam, Lv12: Agility, Lv18: Recover, Lv23: Magnet Rise, Lv29: Signal Beam, Lv34: Recycle, Lv40: Discharge, Lv45: Lock-On, Lv51: Tri Attack, Lv56: Magic Coat, Lv62: Zap Cannon, Lv67: Hyper Beam

His movepool doesn't receive any good toys. But it's solid enough for his job. Porygon2 has access to many special base attacks, mainly to famous BoltBeam combination and the most important thing in Recover. It also may spread status with Toxic/T-Wave. The only new thing is access to Magic Coat. In Generation 5 it may prevent many support moves and entry hazards from being used, making it extremely interesting options. However Porygon2 is too slow to truly abuse it. So it's better to stick to old 'goodies'.

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Sets Ideas
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Porygon2 @ Pre-Evolution Stone
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Ability: Analyze
Nature: Bold
~ Recover
~ Thunderbolt
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunder-Wave / Toxic

It looks like a bold standard Physical Wall we all know. However Pre-Evo Stone makes a huge difference. While it probably boosts both defenses by 50%, it makes Porygon2 surprisingly bulky, making it able to take many hits, which otherwise would easily KO it back.

Let's start with out famous Salamence. Porygon2 with Trace was solid addition to teams, which had problems with handling famous Heatran/Gyarados/Salamence. However right now, thanks to Pre-Evo Stone Porygon2 doesn't need it, as it boosts defense enough to really work.

POSITIVE nature 252 SpA Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252 HP +1 SpD (thanks to Stone) Porygon2

54.01% --> 63.64%

POSITIVE nature Life Orb 252 Atk Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def +1 Def (with Stone) Bold Porygon2

39.57% --> 46.79%

In other words even if someone wants to run for some strange reason Max SpA/Max Atk MixMence (against standard MixMence sets, you will NEVER be 2OHKOed), there's only a slim chance for 2OHKO and we know that build like this will NEVER show up. And it's impossible to run twice positive nature, so damage output will be smaller anyway. Porygon2 in this situation may check MixMence as it takes Draco Meteor and have enough health to recover it back later (as it SURVIVES random critical hit) or even without switching out. Let's also check how it fares against Dragon Dance version.

Neutral Nature Life Orb 252 Atk +1 Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Bold +1 Def (with Stone) Bold Porygon2

54.01% --> 63.64%

If Salamence attacks, you easily OHKO it back (thanks to Analyze you don't need any EVs to secure OHKO). If it tries for some strange reason set-up another Dragon Dance, you may punish it with T-Wave. Either way Porygon2 may check both versions of Salamence at once - MixMence and Dragon Dance, making it almost perfect Salamence counter (well, critical hit may ruin it, but oh well).

But it's not all. Let's go to something else. This time... Ononokusu.

Neutral Nature Life Orb 252 Atk +1 Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Bold +1 Def (thanks to Stone) Bold Porygon2

62.57% --> 73.80%

And this is a moment, where Analyze helps the most. If Onokusu attacks you Analyze boosts your attack and rises power of your Ice Beam enough, to OHKO it back SR up and most of time with one Life Orb recoil even without SR (without Analyze it deals maximum 73%). It is wants to try another set-up, T-Wave it on switch. With T-Wave and Confusion rate there's a good chance that Onokusu won't move and you may just Ice Beam it to death.

Neutral Nature Life Orb 252 Atk +2 Dragon Claw vs 252 HP/252 Def Bold (thanks to Stone) Bold Porygon2

55.35% --> 65.24%

You always survive and probably the most safe move right now is just to use T-Wave. At worst you cripple it to the point, that ANYTHING may finish it. If it can't move - you just won 1vs1. What happens when you meet Swords Dance Life Orb Outrage ?

83.42% --> 98.13%

Unfortunately there's a 66.67% chance to OHKO back with SR up. However if SR isn't on field, Porygon2 SURVIVES hit and may cripple, or just finish it with Ice Beam. Anyway, match-up against Onokusu isn't horrible and you have a chance to handle it in right conditions (watch out on Choice Band though).

How it fares against other offensive threats ? Let's for example check calculation against Rock Polish Groudon, which in previous Generation was beastly and in Gen 5 will be threatening as always.

Positive Nature Life Orb 252 Atk Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def +1 Def (Thanks to Stone) Porygon2

36.10% --> 42.51%

The funniest thing is that Rock Polish Groudon CAN'T 2OHKO you back with Earthquake. In other words you may just Recover damage to the point where you may just Ice Beam it to finish it.

How it looks when you face Adamant Life Orb Offensive Swords Dance ?

71.39% --> 84.22%

Bad news is that you can't OHKO it back even when Analyze kicks in, as it's too bulky for this. However as a last resort check in critical situation works.

Ok, time for something else. This time Rayquaza. We all know how devastating Rayquaza can be. Most of times in Gen 4 it ran two sets - Adamant Dragon Claw Swords Dance and Jolly/Adamant DD Outrage one. Again, Porygon2 comes here to the rescue. Some damage calculations.

+2 Adamant Dragon Claw Life Orb Rayquaza vs 252 HP/252 Def +1 Def (Thanks to Stone) Bold Porygon2

57.22% --> 67.65%

You survive hit, cripple it with T-Wave or just attack with Ice Beam. Anyway, there's a solid chance that you win 1vs1. How it looks against Outrage ?

+1 Adamant Outrage Life Orb Rayquaza vs 252 HP/252 Def +1 Def (Thanks to Stone) Bold Porygon2

64.17% --> 75.67%

You survive Outrage and just OHKO poor Rayquaza back. Unfortunately you can't handle MixQuaza, so you may mispredict, however Porygon2 barely survives Draco Meteor from it, so it's not that horrible.

If you want more, then I'll add later some other calculations. For first, it looks really promising. It can check many physically based threats and may act accordingly thanks to solid base Special Attack and Analyze ability. When I look at those damage calculations, I think I may after all add some EVs to Special Attack just to not rely as much on Analyze. Also I need to check calculations when using 'Special Tank' set, as unlike Blissey it doesn't automatically die to any strong physical attacks. I just hope that this Stone will work like this. And for second it will work for sure on Porygon2. If yes, then we have extremely interesting metagame defender which may also attack in some cases ;).
 
Is it confirmed that the pre-evolution stone does that? Imagine those ridiculous calcs againststrong NU or even UU sweepers. It can live a +2 eq from Groundon that's scary.
 
Is it confirmed that the pre-evolution stone does that? Imagine those ridiculous calcs againststrong NU or even UU sweepers. It can live a +2 eq from Groundon that's scary.
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I'm not sure yet. I wanted to wait with this thread, when I get confirmation, but I wasn't patient enough. We know for sure that is boosts BOTH defenses on NFE Pokemon, but we don't know the number yet. I asked in other thread and probably no one tested this yet. Well, NFE are in general weak, so it's quite possible that GameFreak wanted to show them some love and give maximum 50% defenses boost. If yes, then as you see - we have Pokemon, which can survive most non-fighting physical attacks in game.
 
If thats so wouldnt chansey be better than blissey? Outside of having to rely on seismic toss, of course.
 
Even with the Evolution Stone, I would rather have Trace in almost every instance. I don't have to boost my Special Attack, when I can just OHKO Gyarados and Salamence in most cases regardless. It allows me to counter Heatran better, switch into Levitators like Flygon very easily, and especially Rain Dance teams.

Porygon2 is a key Rain Dance checker, thanks to be able to Trace Swift Swim and use Thunderbolt/Discharge against many threats, all while now taking a hit easier with Evolution Stone.
 
That stone is likely the only thing P2 has going for it. Gen V brought along a whole slew of powerful attackers which it has no business going up against, since stuff like Sand Strength, Overconfidence, Justice Heart etc aren't good for Tracing. The niche it occupied previously sort of diminishes with these less-than-helpful abilities. Analyze seems like an interesting alternative; P2 might have to reinvent itself a little and focus a little more on the offences to be able to act as a tankish attacker of sorts. Just some thoughts, welcome to disagree.

EDIT: @posters above, new threats are introduced but P2 can't wall as well. Only useful abilities I find worth copying are stuff like Lightningrod and Mischievous Heart.
 
Uh, why exactly would you use TWave with Analyze?
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Sure, I'll explain it. Let's assume that Porygon2 switch in when Ononokusu Dragon Dances. We may have situations like this:

a) Ononokusu attack you and you just Ice Beam it.
b) Onokusu Dragon Dances AGAIN and your Ice Beam can't OHKO it without Analyze boost (as it deals 62-73% damage with 0 SpA Ice Beam)

In other words experienced player may just Dragon Dance again while Porygon2 don't OHKO it back. Right now Ononokusu user have problem - should I risk and DD again, while I may take again T-Wave or just attack, cripple Pory2 enough and hope that something else can handle team in which Pory2 is.

It's even more important against Swords Dance. For first +4 SD will annihilate Porygon2 when Porygon2 can't OHKO it back. So it's more safe to use T-Wave. At worst case scenario Porygon2 died with barely alive Onokusu. In best case, Onokusu is dead and Porygon2 wins.

Even with the Evolution Stone, I would rather have Trace in almost every instance. I don't have to boost my Special Attack, when I can just OHKO Gyarados and Salamence in most cases regardless. It allows me to counter Heatran better, switch into Levitators like Flygon very easily, and especially Rain Dance teams.
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Without Analyze you can't OHKO for example Onokusu (and you barely scratch Groudon, especially when you can't T-Wave it), especially when it uses Outrage. Maybe it's situational, but when you face a monster like this, you better have this additional power.

If thats so wouldnt chansey be better than blissey? Outside of having to rely on seismic toss, of course.
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Someone made calculations in Chansey vs Blissey. Ability to take special hits was pretty much even when invested, but Leftovers made a big difference in few cases. Maybe they were wrong ? Just to be sure, I'll make calculations to be sure and post them somewhere.

P2 might have to reinvent itself a little and focus a little more on the offences to be able to act as a tankish attacker of sorts. Just some thoughts, welcome to disagree.
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Nope, I agree here. For first when you see some of those calculations, you may sacrifice a little bit of bulk just to secure some OHKOes without relying on Analyze that much. When you have 40% left or 35% will little less bulk then I don't think it's a bad idea. However you may also go with more offensive Porygon2, as this Stone enough gives good amount of bulk even when not invested. Also with this kind of bulk Porygon2 with 40% left may find this free turn to Recover if user play it right.
 
Porygon2 has two reasons to use it.

1. Analyze: Choice Specs attacks with Analyze make it very potent. It's slow enough to abuse it and bulky enough to come in repeatedly.

2. Trace + Pre-Evolution Stone: Trace is still Trace so I don't think it'll take a backseat to Analyze for defensive sets but with Recover still in play for Porygon, Pre-Evolution Stone can help it tank better. It's got Toxic and elemental attacks to play with so it can still effectively do something to opponents, even if it does somewhat suffer from a lack of "stuff to do".
 
Tracing intimidate and Flash Fire is basically the reason to use Porygon 2. Giving him an automatic Cosmic Power is pretty cool (despite loosing Leftovers).

Against Onono- he could easily Thunder Wave it, then Ice Beam. It would have a 25% chance of being Paralyzed and worst case scenario Porygon 2 dies and something revenge kills a ~20% Paralyzed Ononono.
 
Shimrit As said:
EDIT: @posters above, new threats are introduced but P2 can't wall as well. Only useful abilities I find worth copying are stuff like Lightningrod and Mischievous Heart.
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Sand Throw, Magic Mirror, Regeneration, there's still plenty of stuff.

IMO it really needed psycho shift since status just kills it as opposed to unreliable magic coat and that still hasn't happened.
 
Okay I see it like this: in the previous generation the top offensive threats in the OU metagame consisted DD Gyarados, DD Salamence and Heatran, all of which could be checked by P2. Many others like Magnezone and Flygon could be handled as well. Being able to switch into slower, bulkier stuff like Vaporeon and Blissey was just a bonus, and not the principal reason for which P2 would be employed in your team line-up. The Gen V metagame as I see it will feature many new threats, whose abilities when traced would not aid P2 much. Think about Mold Breaker Ononokusu, Sand Throw Doryuuzu, Justice Heart everything, Overconfidence Gyarados/Salamence etc. These will be among the top offensive threats from what I can see and Trace P2 won't be having it as easy anymore.

Stuff like Regeneration, Hydration, Magic Mirror blabla are fun but you don't use P2 to check uh CM Slowbro or Wish Vaporeon or CM Espeon.
 
Chris is me said:
Porygon2 has two reasons to use it.

1. Analyze: Choice Specs attacks with Analyze make it very potent. It's slow enough to abuse it and bulky enough to come in repeatedly.
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I think this set has some potential, especially with P2 getting Psycho Shock. Has the Analyze boost been confirmed at 50%? Because at +1, Modest Specs P2 can 2hko Blissey with Psycho Shock (especially if they all start to run Shed Shell...)

762 Atk vs 130 Def & 714 HP (80 Base Power): 335 - 395 (46.92% - 55.32%)

Porygon2 @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analyze
Modest Nature
232 HP / 252 SAtk / 24 Def
-Psycho Shock
-Tri Attack
-Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Fighting]
-Ice Beam

P2s still got some of his bulk, but trades most of it off for huge power. It may be worth going Quiet nature here to have a better chance at grabbing the Analyse boost. HP Fighting would be a decent option to hit TTar and steels, as boost specs Tri Attack does plenty to most bulky waters. The advantage of using this over Download PZ is a bit more freedom in deciding which attacks you come in on, especially status moves like Thunder Wave.
 
Shimrit As said:
Okay I see it like this: in the previous generation the top offensive threats in the OU metagame consisted DD Gyarados, DD Salamence and Heatran, all of which could be checked by P2. Many others like Magnezone and Flygon could be handled as well. Being able to switch into slower, bulkier stuff like Vaporeon and Blissey was just a bonus, and not the principal reason for which P2 would be employed in your team line-up. The Gen V metagame as I see it will feature many new threats, whose abilities when traced would not aid P2 much. Think about Mold Breaker Ononokusu, Sand Throw Doryuuzu, Justice Heart everything, Overconfidence Gyarados/Salamence etc. These will be among the top offensive threats from what I can see and Trace P2 won't be having it as easy anymore.

Stuff like Regeneration, Hydration, Magic Mirror blabla are fun but you don't use P2 to check uh CM Slowbro or Wish Vaporeon or CM Espeon.
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Running Porygon2 means you have something to counter the bulkier attackers though, Gyarados, Salamence and Heatran aren't just good because of their massive offenses, but their ability to take all kinds of hits and switch in frequently due to their respectable defenses.

Frail things like Ononokusu, Archaeos, Breloom, Infernape and the like are better handled by Priority or a scarfed pokemon or something.

But just cause he can't handle those, that doesn't mean he can't handle things like Mence, Heatran, Flygon, Gyarados and Magnezone better than most things. Not to mention he can switch in on Scarf Shandera's Shadow Ball and not give two fucks.

As far as new threats go he can take on Warubiaru pretty well, as well as stuff like Torunerosu and Borutorosu (Trace Mischeivous Heart, paralyze or recover, whatever) and the new and improved Arcanine. He can laugh at Zebraika, Electivire, Lightningrod Zapdos, Burunkeru, Water Absorb Suicune, Lanturn, Vaporeon, Volt Absorb Raikou, Jolteon and a slew of other things.

(Also this is kind of irrelevant but does anyone know if Trace works on Daruma Mode? o_o)
 
I trained a Shiny Porygon2 in Platinum, but he's not pulling his weight. I'm looking forward to transfering him right over to B/W to give him the Pre-Evo Stone! He currently has the moveset in the OP with Thunder Wave. I've always liked the Defensive Duck.
 
There are only three pokemon that give me troubles and irritate me: Breloom, Machamp and Porygon2.

Porygon2 is steadily becoming number one. This thing is such a nuissance, it always comes in on my gyarados and threatens me with a Discharge which in turn can cripple my Pokemon with a threatening paralysis.

I'm not sure if it was covered but there's that new item that boosts defenses for a pre-evo. It's gonna make this thing that much more dangerous, especially with that new ability making him even more powerful.

I'm gonna be using this pokemon for sure.
 
VentusVictory said:
I trained a Shiny Porygon2 in Platinum, but he's not pulling his weight. I'm looking forward to transfering him right over to B/W to give him the Pre-Evo Stone! He currently has the moveset in the OP with Thunder Wave. I've always liked the Defensive Duck.
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this kinda makes me wish my shiny porygon-z could devolve =(
 
Porygon2 is a legitimate counter to Mence now! None of this nonsense about strictly getting raped by Draco Meteor! I reckon he'll jump in usages in gen 5.
 
mirror coat was buffed a lot, this gen

very viable as a lead. Bounce back status, and entry hazards, along with taunt.

Also, trace is very good for a lead, anything with intimidate, or an immunity ability is hampered.
 
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