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Post new creative movesets/EV spreads here:

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Here's one!
Alakazam @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk Modest
Psychic
HP Fighting/Focus Blast
Shadow Ball/Filler
Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Filler

With no Speed investment Alakazam greatly outspeeds the 404 magic number with Scarf, letting you pump is cardboard Defense to make him not as glass-cannon-y. You still won't survive much. Since you aren't 2hkoing Blissey anymore, HP Fighting makes more sense than Focus Blast on something so frail.
 
The biggest problem with that Alakazam is that it doesn't have the power of the specs version. It also doesn't have access to tricking off his item onto walls. It has the element of surprise, like most of the sets posted on this thread: however, the surprise only works back.
Using my Psych Up Metagross as an example, it won't work against the same person twice. A smart player would rather have his Gyarados dead than having 3 DD's against MY Metagross(at full HP).
Now to suggest another set:
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Sand Stream: Adamant
252 HP, (Incomplete, though I'd probably put 203 speed to outspeed agility/ Rock Polish users trying to hit 404 AFTER the boost)
Pursuit
Substitute
Focus Punch
Screech

Get up a Sub, and act accordingly. Screech can force switches and works with Pursuit: even if they stay in, it usually does a good bit of damage. Focus Punch works well with Substitute: Blisseys are easy bait to set up this monstrosity.
 
Right, this has worked a few times...it's basically a cross between the Umbreon/Dusknoir combo, the Pesknoir combo, and the Memento WTF movement...

Dusknoir @ Lum Berry
Relaxed, 252 HP, 156 Def, 100 SpDef
-Trick Room
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Memento

Umbreon@ Leftovers
Relaxed, 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpDef
-Taunt
-Mean Look
-Charm
-Baton Pass

Mofro's Pesknoir's a pest, and the Memento version both annoys and almost guarantees a switch; Wow's for Metagross who kills this combo; Ttar and Gyarados must be taken by other teammates...
Umbreon is useable only if she has support; she doesn't have enough time to take three hits while switching, MLing, and BPing. Memento gives one switch, and Trick Room allows Umbreon to Taunt or Charm the Heracross/Medicham/pHazer that switches in with slower speed. Hope for the best, since this only works once...
 
Um, you don't even need to go through all that...Just wait til something kills one of your Pokes or if you were switching in a weak Poke to sacrifice. Next, add a Focus Sash on your Umbreon. You ML on Hera switch, it survives no matter what and you BP to w/e immune/resistent that it used on.
 
I don't know if it exists already:

Lucario @ Leftovers/Lum Berry/Salac Berry/Life Orb (don't use LO, seriously)
Modest (best option with Salac Berry, in my opinion)/Timid (best option for every other item)
EVs- Not sure, maybe 252/252 but I didn't do damage calculations yet
Steadfast (switch in Fake Out and pwn)

- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball

Works like Raikou or Misdreavus. Anti-wall.
I didin't do damage calculations yet because I got this idea in Chemistry class. Anyone likes it? Anyone wants to call me an idiot?
 
Portugeez said:
I don't know if it exists already:

Lucario @ Leftovers/Lum Berry/Salac Berry/Life Orb (don't use LO, seriously)
Modest (best option with Salac Berry, in my opinion)/Timid (best option for every other item)
EVs- Not sure, maybe 252/252 but I didn't do damage calculations yet
Steadfast (switch in Fake Out and pwn)

- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball

Works like Raikou or Misdreavus. Anti-wall.
I didin't do damage calculations yet because I got this idea in Chemistry class. Anyone likes it? Anyone wants to call me an idiot?
Click to expand...

I prefer Flash Cannon for double-stab. And I did note it a few pages back, and then someone else noted Shadow Ball as well. Anyway, you don't get flinched on the switch in, you only really flinch if you actually attacked IIRC. (someone confirm?)
 
I tought you would get flinched because on Emerald (I think, maybe Leaf Green) I switched a Crobat against Fake Out and it said that Crobat couldn't flinch.
Also, I don't like getting walled by Slowking or Tentacruel (lol, it's true) and Flash Cannon has a very repetitive coverage compared do Aura Sphere (like my vocabulary).
 
Um....they have anti-flinching traits, but you would still never get flinched by switching in. How do you get flinched switching in? After they use their move, the turn ends. You never had a chance to move to flinch.
 
Encore Infernape?

Infernape @ Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Blaze
EV's: 252Spd, 252Atk, 6Hp
- Encore
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat

Come in on a WoW, healing move, stat up, etc. One of the fastest encorers in the game, force them out by encoring them, SDing in the meantime and then kill everything that gets in the way.
 
Portugeez said:
I don't know if it exists already:

Lucario @ Leftovers/Lum Berry/Salac Berry/Life Orb (don't use LO, seriously)
Modest (best option with Salac Berry, in my opinion)/Timid (best option for every other item)
EVs- Not sure, maybe 252/252 but I didn't do damage calculations yet
Steadfast (switch in Fake Out and pwn)

- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball

Works like Raikou or Misdreavus. Anti-wall.
I didin't do damage calculations yet because I got this idea in Chemistry class. Anyone likes it? Anyone wants to call me an idiot?
Click to expand...
i used that set except i ran darkpulse over substitute and vacume wave over shadow ball and it saved me from a couple of dugtrio traps, heracross was a problem though
 
Bronzong@Occa Berry (Heat Proof)
Edit:Bold
238 HP/20 Def /252 SAtk

Calm Mind
Grass Knot
HP Ground
Psychic

The thing is you cant tell which type Bronzong is so thats why im going with Occa Berry Decrease fire Damage and you think im use it because take a fire attack and you hit it again and you maytbe list it out but you dare yo too use EQ or Switch in a Ground/Rock or Water/Ground when i have Grass Knot? HP Ground takes care of Infernape and Heatran on the switch or something they thought i have HP Ice or something and they gets OHKO maybe after 1 CM Psychic for STAB. The smartest is to have a Defensive Metagross to get it work that can use Light Screen.


Metagross@Occa Berry
Careful
EV's 252HP/210 Def/ 48 SDef

Stealth Rock
Light Screen
Explosion
Bullet Punch/Earthquake/Meteor Mash/Zen Headbutt

Begin to setup Stealth Rock after that use Light Screen to double your SDef and Explosion and get a free turn too change too Bronzong and figure out if you are Levitated or Heat Proofed. The last move are most a filler Bullet Punch if you like to strike first and EQ if you like coverage if or Meteor Mash for a really Strong STAB move. Zen Headbutt for Gengar which destroys the plan of Explosion.

Comments...
 
Encore Infernape?

Infernape @ Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Blaze
EV's: 252Spd, 252Atk, 6Hp
- Encore
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat

Come in on a WoW, healing move, stat up, etc. One of the fastest encorers in the game, force them out by encoring them, SDing in the meantime and then kill everything that gets in the way.
Click to expand...

I actually thought about that awhile ago. It could definitely work, but taking out Stone Edge really weakens Infernape's offensive options.

Bronzong@Occa Berry (Heat Proof)
Impish
238 HP/20 Def /252 SAtk

Calm Mind
Grass Knot
HP Ground
Psychic

The thing is you cant tell which type Bronzong is so thats why im going with Occa Berry Decrease fire Damage and you think im use it because take a fire attack and you hit it again and you maytbe list it out but you dare yo too use EQ or Switch in a Ground/Rock or Water/Ground when i have Grass Knot? HP Ground takes care of Infernape and Heatran on the switch or something they thought i have HP Ice or something and they gets OHKO maybe after 1 CM Psychic for STAB. The smartest is to have a Defensive Metagross to get it work that can use Light Screen.
Click to expand...

Firstly, Impish Nature? What the hell? (if you didn't know, Impish decreases sp atk, which you're using on this set). Anyways, Heatproof Bronzong really isn't all that great, but Occa Berry Bronzong is just dumb. Losing lefties really hurts when you've got no other recovery, and the moves you listed don't give you very good coverage, either.
 
Qwilfish
EVs: 252 Atk 252 HP 4 Def
Item: Wet Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
Rain Dance
Water Fall
Taunt
Destiny Bond

This is a little spin on the Rain Dance Qwilfish in the Analysis. Rain Dance up, survive a hit, then the fun begins. With speed of over 400 in rain, you should move first next turn barring a VERY speedy scarf user. Destiny Bond is usually the call, sacrificing himself while giving the team a prolonged Rain Dance. People might take it upon themselves to either see DB coming, or laugh at what Qwilfish's standard attacks might do and stat up. If they don't kill you, Taunt them next turn, and force their hand.

As for EVs, I was thinking about maybe a more defensive minded set. I'll have to check damage calculator to see if a hefty investment of EVs into defense would be worth it against common leads. 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Attack is what I'm thinking. Special Attacks that'll be coming Qwilfish's way will be ones he'll want to run from at any rate. What do you guys think?

Update:

156 Defense + 252 HP + Life Orb Non-STAB Earthquake from base 100s= 100% survival
252 Defense + 252 HP + Life Orb Non-STAB Earthquakes from base 130s= 66% survival
252 Defense + 252 HP + Choice Band Non-STAB Earthquakes from base 100s= 95% survival

So, I'm really thinking about running a complete defensive set, but stick with Adamant nature. I could survive even more with a +Def nature, but STAB Waterfall from 226 attack in the rain can still be effective.
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
You're better off maxing speed and atk to gurantee faster as Qwilfish dies to a lot of weak shit. Just slap on a Focus Sash =/
Click to expand...

Focus Sash occurred to me, but I was thinking of a Rain Dance based team so the ability to survive while setting up Rain Dance with Wet Rock to prolong it helps the team a lot in the long run.

Maxing out speed would help out-speed incredibly fast Scarf users with Rain Dance in play (hello, Garchomp), but in the end, that wouldn't help a lot.

I would stick with the 156 Def/100 Att split if I was using Poison Jab over Taunt, or Explosion over Destiny Bond.
 
Trick rapid spinners so they can't remove spikes and get stuck using same move allowing easy setups with others

Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-wisp
---
trick spinners burn stuff sball stab is good
 
demozi said:
Trick rapid spinners so they can't remove spikes and get stuck using same move allowing easy setups with others

Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-wisp
---
trick spinners burn stuff sball stab is good
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that doesn't seem very creative at all to tell you the truth. For instance, if Rotom has Choice Scarf, why does he have completely maxed out speed with a +speed nature? It honestly does not need that much speed.

Sorry, but it just seems like you took a variation of the Trick set from the analysis or something and shoved Choice Scarf onto it, which isn't exactly new...
 
I'm not sure if this could be really called a new set, but here it is. Oh, and before I start, please know that with this spread, EQ deals 39% - 46% to Blissey, and Adamant deals 43% - 50%. I am aware of that. Anyway!

Dutrio @ Life Orb
Nature: Naive (+Speed, -SpDef)
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 42 HP/252 Atk/216 Spd
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Sucker Punch
- HP Ice

That's right. Hidden Power on a Dugtrio. No, this is not Advance, everyone. This is your solution to Stone Edge no longer sitting on your fellow trapper as eye candy anymore. I was looking over Dugtrio's moveset the other day, and thought to myself how useless Stone Edge was to him. Seriously, I'm not sure about you, but I don't believe I have ever used it once. Let's take a look at the things that have a plausible excuse to be Stone Edge'd, shall we?

Charizard
Cloyster
Gyarados
Aerodactyl
Articuno
Zapdos
Dragonite
Crobat
Skarmory
Swellow
Ninjask
Walrein
Salamence
Staraptor
Driftblim
Weavile
Togekiss
Yanmega
Glaceon
Froslass

These are all the Pokemon under the over used sun I could think of that you may or may not want to use Stone Edge as opposed to your original 3 other moves for. Let's look at the more popular Pokemon. Note that all of these scenarios are barring in mind that the opponent has more than one Pokemon left, giving the option to switch.

Skarmory takes a pitiful amount of damage from Stone Edge with the maximum being 26% at Adamant nature with Maxed Attack EVs. It has Roost, and is in no hurry to run away, let alone the fact that in can run away if it chooses too.

Gyarados takes 40% minimum after Intimidate is activated. Impressive, yes. However, knowing this, Gyarados has no reason to even consider switching into Dugtrio unless it feels it can abuse the opportunity to stat up, or knows that it is a CBtrio using EQ. On any other occasion, Gyarados is likely to be faster due to Dragon Dance, or it will kill Dugtrio on the switch with virtually any attack at it's disposal, aside from Stone Edge. Gyarados can also flee if it feels the need to do so. Dugtrio has better things to do than tango with Gyarados.

Considering almost all Aero's are Jolly, it will kill Dugtrio with Ice Fang before it has a chance to do anything. It can also switch out.

Weavile? See Aerodactyl.

Swellow will kill Dugtrio with Facade easily once Guts is activated, and will also outspeed it. It can also switch out after Protecting the CB'd move.

Staraptor will switch.

Yanmega will protect until it can outspeed you, and KO you if it holds Life Orb. If not, it can protect and switch to the appropriate counter, or kill you if you are below 73% damage.

Froslass is mostly seen in Hail, at which point, it's ability is activated. We all know Stone Edge isn't the most reliable attack, and that Froslass is a frail Ghost type. Thus it is likely that Suck Punch is the wiser choice.

Ninjask? This is faster than Dugtrio by a fair bit. It can also switch. You are better off bringing in a phazer to screw with the incoming threat.

Walrein? Dugtrio can do a max of 52% to Walrein with Stone Edge, not including Leftovers afterwards and the possibility of Hail healing it as well. Assuming that the Walrein is at full health, it will easily proceed to wall and wittle you away with stalling and hail, if it is not doing that to your team already. Or it can simply Blizzard/Surf you to death. Which ever is more convenient. Like wise with Gyarados, Dugtrio has business with other Pokemon.

Crobat is faster than Dugtrio, and will either abuse Hypnosis or U-Turn out of the way to an appropriate counter, provided that it decides it wants to stay in.

I am too lazy to look up the defensive spreads of Zapdos. However, on a 0/0 Zapdos, Dugtrio has a chance at KOing Zapdos with Stone Edge. If it doesn't, it will be eating HP Ice/Grass. Many Zapdos also run the Sleep Talker set, and they have no problem with resting back to full health once your Dugtrio is gone. They can also run away.

Even with a 252/252 +Defense nature spread, Articuno only has a chance at living from a Dugtrio's Stone Edge. Articuno isn't staying in. Dugtrio has no business switching in to Articuno either, unless it likes eating Ice attacks.

Charizard is in the same boat as Articuno.

Glaceon can't be KO'd by Dugtrio at full health, even with no EV investment. Granted, it does do a significant amount at 74-87%. At a healthy state though, it will survive, and Dugtrio will be eating an Ice attack. Glaceon can then pick a proper opportunity to Wish itself back to HP. It can't switch in safely either, apart from Fake Tears possibly, as it will either be Yawned, beaten with Ice Beam/Blizzard, facing a problem with Wish healing the opposing Glaceon back to full health, or being hit by HP Fighting, which will also KO Dugtrio. It's essentially not a safe gamble, although I can see Dugtrio landing a kill or two.

Togekiss will take 80-94% damage from Stone Edge if has no EV investment in HP/Defense. Calm variants with Max HP will take 66-78% damage. I personally wouldn't keep a Togekiss in on Dugtrio knowing it could Stone Edge me. If for whatever reason I did, unless I was damaged already due to Stealth Rock, which is a high possibility, I would simply KO it with a Special Attack and Roost the damage off later.

An Adamant, Choice Banded Dugtrio is only doing 48% at best to a Cloyster, disregarding Leftovers. Granted, SR could have done sufficient damage to allow a kill, and it is likely to switch in safely on the set up. However, Dugtrio is likely to be hit by Surf/Ice Beam, and that's a waste of a RK.

Drifblim takes a few percent more from Stone Edge than it does from Sucker Punch. Stone Edge is not as accurate, but Sucker Punch does not work on the set up, which is likely to happen. However, Drifblim can still switch freely if it chooses too, and will likely do so considering it will take heafty damage from either of those attacks.

What Pokemon does this leave left? Salamence and Dragonite. HP Ice does 82 - 96% to Salamence. With SR, that's a direct KO. With Stone Edge, that is true too. However, with Salamence, you are in one of three scenarios. You both come in at the same time, in which HP Ice would provide more damage due to Intimidate. You come in on a Salamence, eating an attack. Or you come in on Salamence, facing a Dragon Dance and then eating an attack. Either way you look at it, HP Ice does more for you in the few times it can be used. The LO set also free's you from being locked in place by CB, so using HP Ice on a Salamence trying to come in on the EQ you were supposed to use repeatedly will be very annoyed. Dragonite is different, as it will not be holding Intimidate, and many carry a Yache berry. That I can admit to.

So basically, we have a load of Pokemon that will either outspeed and kill Dugtrio, will switch out due to a Flying type attribute, or will be a rare sight to see and have very circumstantial times in which Stone Edge is usable.

Now, for the pros of HP Ice. Here are some Calcs:

Garchomp w/ 0/0 - 72% - 85%
Salamence w/ 0/0 - 82 - 96%
Tangrowth w/ 252/0 - 48% - 56%
Celebi w/ 252/0 - 28% - 33%
Gliscor w/ 252/0 - 81% - 95%
Hippowdon w/ 252/0 - 35% - 41%
Claydol w/ 252/0 - 30% - 35%

Those are the damage calcs with the standard EV sets. Sure, most of them are not ground breaking. However, this still works effectively with Dugtrio, as he is still a revenge killer. If that Hippowdon believe it is going to Slack Off after taking out your last Pokemon in a stalling match, it can think again. Gliscor can run, sure, but why would anyone think to do that against a Dugtrio? Instead, they will attempt to Knock Off, recover HP with Roost, or set up SR's. Celebi would kill a Dugtrio, but it sure can't switch out, and will be cocky enough to believe it's Defense is enough to surivive an Aerial Ace, or that it will stay safe from your Suck Punch if it just uses Leech Seed and stalls with no attacks. Claydol can also run, but a weak one can be taken out if the player believes that your desperate by sending in a Dugtrio.
56% is quite a fine number to do to a Tangrowth, especially one that may be weak and can't run. Not many physical attackers can boast about doing that kind of damage in one shot to that heap of vines. And what I personally love, is the look on your opponents face when he/she dances up with Garchomp thinking their defense and typing can survive anything Dugtrio throws, and then realizes that they do not have the speed, nor the HP to surivive another hit. Oh, and Substitutes failing due to lack of HP is always fun too.

Wow. That was long. Anyway, questions? Comments? Complaints?
 
Yeah, it would seem HP Ice is a viable replacement for Stone Edge, although I'm willing to bet there would be situations where you think "Ah fuck, I wish I had Stone Edge!" You're also needing Life Orb to do respectable damage, which means you lose the power CB would allow. And on the note of unexpected mixed attackers...

primeape.png


Yeah, I've been on a 1st gen buzz lately.

Primeape @ Life Orb/Fist Plate
Nature: Hasty
Ability: Vital Spirit
EV's: 216Atk, 78SpA, 216Speed

- Close Combat
- Payback
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt/U-Turn/Stone Edge

Note: EV's generate 300 Attack, 175 Special Attack and 308 Speed.

Core moves

The Life Orb grants a 30% boost to all his attacks, but I personally think it's an awful item so I've listed Fist Plate as an option.

The Fist Plate grants Primape a 20% boost to his Close Combat attack giving it an effective 216BP. The EV's generate 300 Attack, so such a powerful move with great coverage is always welcome. It also serves the vital function of luring out Ghosts or Psychics. If you predict the switch, Payback will lay waste to Starmie and Gengar as well as hitting Cresselia and Dusknoir for a sturdy 200BP. Those two moves form the core of the set, allowing for a potent combination.

Overheat

Overheat is the trump card of this set. Primeape is one of the few non-fire types on the game capable of learning this devestating attack. Only Rayquaza, Dialga, Groudon, Mew, Granbull and Exploud share the same ability. Some calculations...

Overheat vs 252/0 Skarmory WITHOUT LIFE ORB: 60.48% - 71.26%
Overheat vs 252/0 Skarmory WITH LIFE ORB: 78.74% - 92.51%

A Fist Plate powered Close Combat hits Skarmory for nearly 40%, so if he switches in to the CC, he will be getting destroyed by Overheat on the following turn.

Overheat vs 252/0 Tangrowth WITHOUT LIFE ORB: 64.60% - 75.92%
Overheat vs 252/0 Tangrowth WITH LIFE ORB: 83.91% - 98.76%

CC hits Tangrowth for 30.69% - 36.14%, so if he switches in he will be sharing Skarmory's fate at the hands of Overheat.

Overheat vs standard 252/98 Bronzong WITHOUT LIFE ORB: 36.39% - 42.90%

Using the EV's from the first set in the analysis (252 HP / 152 ATK / 8 DEF / 98 SPDEF @ Brave/Relaxed/Sassy), Close Combat will hit the +Def variants for 47.04% - 55.33%, so that's a 2HKO without Overheat's assistance.

Overheat vs 252/0 Forretress WITHOUT LIFE ORB: 128.53% - 151.41%

Thanks for coming along, Forry.

Filler move

Picking the last move has been the bane of my life. The previous three moves form a difficult to wall combination so the final move needs to address this. The three moves to consider IMO are Thunderbolt; U-Turn and Stone Edge.

Thunderbolt/Thunderpunch: Both moves spike Gyarados pretty badly.

Thunderbolt vs BulkyGyarados WITHOUT LIFE ORB: 54.17% - 63.80%
Thunderbolt vs BulkyGyarados WITH LIFE ORB: 70.31% - 82.81%

With Life Orb, Bulky Gyara cannot switch into any of Primeapes attacks for fear of being KO'd.

Thunderpunch vs BulkyGyarados WITHOUT LIFE ORB *After Intimidate*: 48.44% - 57.03%
Thunderpunch vs BulkyGyarados WITH LIFE ORB *After Intimidate*: 63.02% - 74.22%

Thunderbolt > Thunderpunch for Primeape. All other Water types will be hit harder by Close Combat or Payback.

U-Turn is a great move and allows Primeape to escape an unfavourable match up and do a little scouting. Paybacking Cresselia on the switch, then U-Turning to a counter is gonna leave the Space-Duck in a lot of pain.

Stone Edge hits a lot of things hard and should always be considered on a Fighting type Pokemon. Salamence does a fair job of absorbing Close Combats, Paybacks and Overheat but Stone Edge addresses this problem whilst also smacking Gyarados about.

I'd like to see some opinions on this set, and especially the last moveslot.
 
LO Overheat is epic, fire moves on physical sweepers has always been an amazing hat trick and I had no idea he learned Overheat.

I guess I'm just worried about a bird coming in on him to ruin his party. In that regard, Stone Edge is superior to Tpunch. Depends on how many Gyarados switch into him (I assume a lot).

Bulky waters and grounds could also hurt but CC rips into them pretty hard and I don't think you'll ever kill a Hippowdon. No need for Tpunch for the waters of course, CC hits them harder regardless.

//Out of context entirely
Yeah, I've been on a 1st gen buzz lately.
Click to expand...
2nd gen is taking forever, I'm on my third test and second lab this week. :*
It's thursday, almost done with hell week, then onto Thanksgiving break!
 
Fishin said:
I actually thought about that awhile ago. It could definitely work, but taking out Stone Edge really weakens Infernape's offensive options.



Firstly, Impish Nature? What the hell? (if you didn't know, Impish decreases sp atk, which you're using on this set). Anyways, Heatproof Bronzong really isn't all that great, but Occa Berry Bronzong is just dumb. Losing lefties really hurts when you've got no other recovery, and the moves you listed don't give you very good coverage, either.
Click to expand...


Changed to bold.
 
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