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Hmm, I've wanted to toy around with this set for a while, but can't do so due to stupid blocks not letting me go on the official server

Lugia @ Leftovers *** Don't try this ingame!
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 116 HP / 176 Def / 192 Spd / 24 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Reflect
- Icy Wind
- Toxic
- Roost

Now for the set comments

Are you crazy? Timid AND Icy Wind?
Just because these two seem contradicting, but really, it's not as bad as you think. The Speed EVs allow it to outrun Garchomp and thus allows Lugia to Reflect or Roost before it gets 2HKOed by CB Outrage/Stone Edge. Rayquaza will get absolutely mauled by this, and with this spread Lugia can easily survive a DDed LO Outrage (unless they have SR on your field, but then, your normal Lugia would die too so shut up ._.). Countering Garchomp here may not seem much, but if your only Rayquaza counter is Lugia you'll thank me someday. Icy Wind should 2HKO both of them (well Ray should die to LO recoil and Chomp can easily be outstalled).

Why not just run Ice Beam?
This is where it gets interesting...I hope. Icy Wind cuts your opponent's speed and has more PP, whereas Ice Beam has a 10% chance of freezing and uhh...less PP. Lowering speed is extremely useful as it destroys Darkrai, Mewtwo, Arceus and name it here that tries to annihilate Lugia (more on the first two). Ice Beam 2HKOes both Garchomp and Rayquaza, something that Icy Wind CAN still do while providing a nice side effect. Speed chilling can cause switches, and you could add insult to injury by intoxicating them.

I could just try and Toxic them on the switch...
Well, yeah. But, won't it be better to chill their speed AND intoxicate them? Also, if you're facing a Rayquaza, you know pretty darn well trying to use Toxic is dangerous as it might just kill you.

Does Icy Wind break Subsalac Groudon's Substitute?
Yes...most of the time anyways. Still, though, this means Groudon loses its sweeping ability if Icy Wind ever touches Groudon. Stone Edge versions may give Lugia some trouble, although its not like that's not fixed with Reflect + switch and Dragon Claw versions just die.

This set isn't too much different from the standard set!
Well, true, but it has a little extra twist into it. It can turn matches around with Icy Wind and the ability to counter Garchomp. It may not necessarily be better, but it's certainly creative.

If you want to counter Chomp so bad, why don't you just stick the EVs into defense so CB Outrage is a 3HKO?
Well, that means you'd be forced to use Ice Beam then. Because a DDed Ray is faster than you, Icy Wind won't stop it from beating you. Without Icy Wind, it's your ordinary Lugia set.

There's no Whirlwind!
It's not necessary.

What do you mean by "Don't try this ingame!"?
This set requires such specific EVs and 31 IVs in every stat minus attack (and special defense) that trying to pull this off ingame is ridiculously hard
 
Reminiscent of that wacky Icy Wind/Toxic Blissey that Obi used in ADV, huh?

It works, to say the least.

It would be better for you to max Lugia's HP and dump the rest into Defense, however, as there's only about a 1% advantage between the damage done when using your spread, while maxing HP first provides you much more in terms of special defense and overall tanking ability. Always maximize your HP before defenses unless there is a very specific reason to otherwise.
 
Hey guys, got a Cress EV spread for you that I used on my Spiking team (which I'll post in RMT in a few days when I can finally make threads again!)

80 HP / 252 Def / 176 SAtk, Bold

The standard set assumes that you want to kill a Garchomp that has taken zero damage otherwise. Since I'm optimistic that Garchomp will at least switch in to Stealth Rock, I decided to make a fairly defensive Cress and see how often Garchomp would die with the leftover EVs. 80 HP hits 401 (ohai Arceus for the idea), 252 Def and Bold takes 2 CB Outrages (though it's not like you're not switching to your Steel), and 176 SAtk will OHKO 50% sf the time if Garchomp switched into Stealth Rock and 100% of the time if it switches in to even 1 layer of Spikes alone. It works really well on my team, and I thought you guys might enjoy it, especially all the people going "Garchomp has no counters!" and then get one pointed out and go "OMG Overcentralizing!!!!111".
 
"New" Salamence set

Some of you might be familiar with the following Salamence set. I've been using it for quite a while and it's been successful for me. This isn't "new," per se, since the moveset is a variation of the DDMence, but the one move I use in the fourth slot requires a different spread in my opinion.

DDMixMence @ Life Orb
Naive 48 HP / 252 Atk / 28 SpA / 16 SpD / 164 Spe
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Fire Blast

When I thought up the set on my own, I was inspired by ChainChomp in terms of coverage, only to find out that there was a too similar option in the analysis. Besides, now that I think about it, "ChainMence" would need Draco Meteor over Dragon Claw, wouldn't it? That 110 SpA would certainly help its case...

Anyway, we should all be familiar with the complete coverage of Dragon/Ground/Fire. Of course, Garchomp can do that, as well, but Salamence has the prospects of a LITTLE more Atk, more SpA, and a way to boost its Speed. (Besides, 102 to 100 is a difference of only FOUR points.)

The EV spread looks a little unusual even from here; allow me to explain. I'm very cautious with the spread. Naive and 164 Speed EVs outrun ALL Adamant ScarfChomp after a DD. 28 Special Attack guarantees the OHKO on Impish 252/252 Skarmory with Fire Blast. After maximizing the Attack, the other 64 EVs maximize the defenses. I know, I know, Special Defense EVs on a -Special Defense nature? Well, put 95/80/80, Naive, and Intimidate into X-Act's Defense EVs applet to see what you can do with 64 EVs; then get back to me.

Of course, from what I hear (and I haven't been on Shoddy often enough lately to say either way), ScarfChomp's popularity has gone down quite a bit. If you're not worried about ScarfChomp, feel free to move down to the recommended 299 and 270 Speed points:

For 299 Speed, I would go with Naughty 32 HP / 196 Atk / 28 SpA / 252 Spe. That way you can also "minimize" Life Orb recoil.

For 270 Speed, I would go with Naughty 32 HP / 252 Atk / 28 SpA / 60 SpD / 136 Spe or Lonely 88 HP / 252 Atk / 28 SpA / 4 SpD / 136 Spe. Either one maximizes the defenses while still packing the punch you expect from a DDMence.
 
It would be better for you to max Lugia's HP and dump the rest into Defense, however, as there's only about a 1% advantage between the damage done when using your spread, while maxing HP first provides you much more in terms of special defense and overall tanking ability. Always maximize your HP before defenses unless there is a very specific reason to otherwise.
Click to expand...
I started out by aiming for max HP, but then I figured out that it would limit Lugia's ability to survive Ray's DD Outrag and also leaving him with no EVs for SA. I decided to bring his HP down, step by step, to find out the best amount of A I can go while retaining the speed and survivng Ray's DD Outrage. This spread gives Lugia 222 SA. I got 223, but it does the same amount of damage to Ray anyways, so I brung it down to 222 and tried to find a spread that would increase his HP while keeping the 222 SA. Eventually, I did.

The more SA it haas, the more chances it has breaking Groudon' sub
 
Jibaku said:
I started out by aiming for max HP, but then I figured out that it would limit Lugia's ability to survive Ray's DD Outrag and also leaving him with no EVs for SA. I decided to bring his HP down, step by step, to find out the best amount of A I can go while retaining the speed and survivng Ray's DD Outrage. This spread gives Lugia 222 SA. I got 223, but it does the same amount of damage to Ray anyways, so I brung it down to 222 and tried to find a spread that would increase his HP while keeping the 222 SA. Eventually, I did.

The more SA it haas, the more chances it has breaking Groudon' sub
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstand.

EVs: 116 HP / 176 Def / 192 Spd / 24 SAtk

Becomes:

EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 192 Spd / 24 SAtk


I do not care what your other EVs are, but your EVs should be invested in HP before Defenses, especially when Lugia's HP has a lower base stat than its Defenses. You are only disadvantaged in Defense by approximately 1%, whilst the HP boosts not only its ability to take physical attacks but also special attacks.
 
why don't people use this more as a lead

Electrode@Focus Sash
Naive (+SPD, -Sp.DEF)/Hasty (+SPD, -DEF)
252/200/58 (SPD/SP.ATK/ATK)
Taunt
Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Explosion


this makes electrode the fastest taunter in the game, the focus sash is so it can get at least one taunt out before it dies, and then explode

not sure if the EVs are ok though, just help me out with those

this thing also makes an amazing lead
 
First off, THANK FUCKING GOD THE SEARCH FEATURE IS BACK, ESPECIALLY FOR THIS THREAD. Now, moving on...
Mood4food77 said:
why don't people use this more as a lead

Electrode@Focus Sash
Naive (+SPD, -Sp.DEF)/Hasty (+SPD, -DEF)
252/200/58 (SPD/SP.ATK/ATK)
Taunt
Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Explosion


this makes electrode the fastest taunter in the game, the focus sash is so it can get at least one taunt out before it dies, and then explode

not sure if the EVs are ok though, just help me out with those

this thing also makes an amazing lead
Click to expand...

I agree I really like this lead, but I have used it on my Rain Dance team with some great success. I wouldn't run max Speed, since the only think you probably should only aim for about 406ish speed to get past those geared to outrun ScarfCross. The rest can either go into Attack or Special Attack. Also, since Electrode does have a slightly higher Special Defense, I'd run Hasty to take hits better. Cool set but IIRC it's been around for a while.
 
The Electrode lead is a decent idea, but honestly not a lot of people are still stupid enough to lead something screwed over by Taunt (lol gyarados). Also, Deoxys-S is the fastest Taunter in the game, and he can take hits a tiny bit better than Electrode.

Speaking of him, he's part 2 of my team that I can't post until 2 days from now!
Deoxys-S @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SDef; Impish
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Recover

Yes, it looks like utter shit, and it's screwed over by Weavile and Gengar. But it actually sometimes works as a lead. I can Taunt a Gyarados lead or all the ludicrous "ooh i'm going to play the extremely vital to every team SR and then immediatley explode lol!!!!111" leads. He's just defensive enough to work like a mini-Starmie and survive unboosted hits. To keep unboosted hits... unboosted, he Knocks Off boosting items (and possibly a Breloom Toxic Orb if Breloom leads), Taunts the shit out of everything, and then lays down some Spikes. Having Blissey switch straight into Taunt is classic. When he's done Spiking, he just tries to Taunt or Knock Off things or be sacrifice fodder.
 
Venusaur - The Slayer of... Heatrans?!
I recently made this set after finding out that my mono-grass team had an AWFUL CSpecs Heatran weakness (It dealt with most other fire types just fine). It is used mainly for countering Heatran, and then attempting a sweep. Can kill any kind of Heatran, besides CScarf one (Unless you can get a growth in and have a substitute, or the heatran is already weakened a bit). Well, here's the set and EV spread:

252 Sp. Attack, 216 Speed, or 232 speed if you are worried about max speed Heatrans, Rest Split between HP and Defence (Depends on if you want 4 subs, or berry activating after 3rd sub) @ Salac Berry
-Growth
-Substitute
-HP Ground
-Energy Ball/Grass Knot

The main idea is to switch Venusaur on something that will surely switch (Hi Swampert?) to Heatran. You use Substitute, and then you growth while you keep on subbing. After the Salac Berry activates, you kill Heatran with HP Ground (Kills 244 HP Heatran 100% time) and then sweep. After Salac and single Growth, you will have 490 sp. attack and 375 speed. Not bad. I used Energy Ball, since sweeping at 25%/3>HP is already risking, and I don't want to lose due to variable power move, but feel free to replace it with Grass Knot.

@Edit
I just realised Venusaur learns Swords Dance... this might work better with the same EVs (Just attack and sp. attack EVs swapper), using Swords Dance/Sub/EQ/Seed Bomb!
 
Karrot said:
I think you misunderstand.

EVs: 116 HP / 176 Def / 192 Spd / 24 SAtk

Becomes:

EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 192 Spd / 24 SAtk


I do not care what your other EVs are, but your EVs should be invested in HP before Defenses, especially when Lugia's HP has a lower base stat than its Defenses. You are only disadvantaged in Defense by approximately 1%, whilst the HP boosts not only its ability to take physical attacks but also special attacks.
Click to expand...
Ugh, must I explain?
Lugia does have higher defenses than HP, but that doesn't necessarily mean it -NEEDS- max HP. The max HP only gives Lugia the best ability to cover both sides, which this set really isn't tailored for. And plus, Lugia has a base 154 base special defense. I'm sure it can take a few special hits. Now what concerns me is this

DDed Life Orb Outrage from 438 Attack Rayquaza to your EVs:
360-424:
360, 364, 369, 373, 376, 381, 385, 390, 394, 399, 402, 406, 411, 415, 420, 424

Okay, so it stands a very high chance of surviving. However, this Lugia is not only built to counter Chomp. It is built to counter DDRay as well. It must survive Outrage.
 
You should realize your original EVs do not allow it to survive it, either, albeit it does stand about a 1%~ better chance to survive it.

DDed Life Orb Outrage from 438 Attack Rayquaza to your EVs: 326-384

Your Lugia's HP is 382.
 
Karrot said:
You should realize your original EVs do not allow it to survive it, either, albeit it does stand about a 1%~ better chance to survive it.

DDed Life Orb Outrage from 438 Attack Rayquaza to your EVs: 326-384

Your Lugia's HP is 382.
Click to expand...
Damage: 322-381
(322, 327, 330, 334, 339, 342, 346, 349, 354, 357, 361, 364, 369, 372, 376, 381)



That's what I'm getting from X-Act's calc
 
Then that must be because of the calculators.

I ran the first into Metalkid's calculator.

Here are calculations from PsyPoke's:
Max: 383

I do not how much DP and RSE damage calculations differ, but I also ran it into Netbattle's and received a max damage of 382.

With that, I'd like to rest my case, as I have already said everything I wanted to, as you have explained your reason for those exact EVs. If there is any proof that verifies X-Act's calculator is 100% correct, and most importantly if it aligns with the Shoddy Battle program's damage calculations, then I would be glad to see it.
 
Just more emphasis of Curse Mamoswine. The thing that scares me is his somewhat awful weaknesses (a total of 5). Still, despite that, here's a set that requires something like Blissey...

- Substitute
- Curse
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
EVs: 172 HP / 204 Atk / 64 Def / 68 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Adamant

So it's a twist on the Curser. Instead of using Avalanche (which can get really risky otherwise), you can plainly Substitute and Curse behind it. You can come in on something, say Blissey, and easily start Substitute and then Curse up. The EVs give 404HP, not that it gives him much more protection outside of Seismic Toss, but still some breathing space.

There are some problems with the Curse Mamoswine really. Moreso Bulky Waters that focus on the Special side of the spectrum and PHazers like Skarmory make the world problematic. Despite that, the fact that Mamoswine has reasonable Defense and that massive Attack make a difference.

If you want some supports, Vaporeon would do well, taking in the vast majority of Mamoswine's hits and Wishing them off. Tentacruel does nicely too because Mamoswine is definately prone to entry hazards.
 
Karrot said:
Then that must be because of the calculators.

I ran the first into Metalkid's calculator.

Here are calculations from PsyPoke's:
Max: 383

I do not how much DP and RSE damage calculations differ, but I also ran it into Netbattle's and received a max damage of 382.

With that, I'd like to rest my case, as I have already said everything I wanted to, as you have explained your reason for those exact EVs. If there is any proof that verifies X-Act's calculator is 100% correct, and most importantly if it aligns with the Shoddy Battle program's damage calculations, then I would be glad to see it.
Click to expand...
I can tell you right now that I am 99% sure that Metalkid's calculator is wrong. All of the calculations I have done with it, as of late, have been at least 2 points too high when compared to my calculations by hand or my Excel-based calculator. I have addressed this issue with him (hopefully he does read the feedback he gets from his site) and hope that it gets corrected soon.

Incidentally, my calculator returns the exact same range that X-Act's calculator did for that calculation.
 
Snorlax@Chesto Berry
Thick Fat
Careful/Sassy
244 HP / 28 Def / 236 SpD
-Rest
-Recycle
-Body Slam
-EQ/Crunch/Fire Blast

So it's similar to the Sleeptalking set in the analysis.
However, with recycle, you can keep using that Chesto Berry, at the loss of Leftovers recovery. Instead of leftovers, you get an extra turn to do whatever you want instead of risking Sleep Talk picking rest.

Instead of your moves going like this

1. Rest
2, 3. Sleep Talk
4. Whatever

It goes like this

1. Rest, wake up
2. Recycle.
3. Whatever

Any thoughts? Just something that's been floating around in my head for a while.
 
Colonel M said:
Just more emphasis of Curse Mamoswine.
Click to expand...

I've been using that for a long time. I mentioned it in this RMT reply about a week ago (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1038496&postcount=7), but I'd say I've used it on and off since October. It's a very good set, and allows Curse Mamo to actually sweep which is otherwise impossible with all those common special weaknesses.

Lee said:
I prefer Substitute over Avalanche on Curse Mamoswine. With plenty of common weaknesses and poor Sp Def, it doesn't matter how many times you Curse up - a Pokemon like Infernape and Starmie can simply come in for the revenge kill. Substitute prevents this, and with that massive base HP, his Subs are very difficult to budge, moreso after Cursing.
Click to expand...
 
To continue the trend of revealing a part of my team each day until I can post the RMT (like anyone cares), here's my totally not-unique Togekiss moveset:

Togekiss @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd; Bold
- Wish
- Air Slash
- Yawn
- Body Slam

Pure supporting Togekiss, really. Wish is vital to my team which lacks recovery outside of Moonlight Cress and Recover Deoxys. With my team already having 2 Steels, Jirachi isn't an option, though Vaporeon could work. Yawn is a really cool move and fits my team's theme as an offensive shuffling team (really!). Body Slam for "double status" and Air Slash for teh flinchaxes, though Togekiss doesn't usually stay in that long so it's more of a last resort move.
 
I tried this a couple of times with Gallade. It's moreso for a person that likes to have a Wisher hit decently. Yeah, Gallade fit the bill suprisingly.

Gallade (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 244 HP/148 Atk/116 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Psycho Cut / Night Slash
- Close Combat

Actually it's not too bad. Since Gallade can take a couple of hits, it's a good set. Basically use Wish when needed, Protect thereafter, and if you feel something to switch in, just punish the switch-in. Stone Edge COULD work in Slot 3, but 16 PP isn't going to last long. It's something I considered to try with Swords Dance (over Protect) and maybe just smashing on Night Slash in Slot 3.

Oh yeah, a creative EV spread for Dugtrio:

68 HP / 224 Atk / 216 Spe

If I did this right, the EV spread will survive ONE LUCARIO EXTREMESPEED (if he hasn't used Swords Dance). The catch is is that he cannot switch into an entry hazard, so it would actually require a little bit more investment. The Speed outpaces Base 115s, which is really decent enough since Dugtrio shouldn't really be attempting to kill Sceptile (despite the fact that he can), and Sucker Punch catches Alakazam easily.

^ In case I get asked, this assumes Adamant 252 Atk Lucario with Life Orb.
 
Lucario@ leftovers
100hp/152satk/252spe
Modest/timid nature

calm mind
aura sphere
dark pulse
hidden power [ice]

___
CMluke, need help on evs and nature

now calculating some stuff to get better Ev's
best nature?? modest/timid

with this set and no up stages, its almost a sure Ko to skarftran (modest nature)
 
bologo's last rmt had a bulkymind luke, but sadly it was lost in the "purge" or whatever, I'm pretty sure. It had like no speed, calm mind, vacuum wave, aura sphere, and shadow ball I think. He pumped hp and defense and threw in a teeny bit of satk. it looked pretty good.
 
Stathakis said:
bologo's last rmt had a bulkymind luke, but sadly it was lost in the "purge" or whatever, I'm pretty sure. It had like no speed, calm mind, vacuum wave, aura sphere, and shadow ball I think. He pumped hp and defense and threw in a teeny bit of satk. it looked pretty good.
Click to expand...
still needs to be sp sweeper, but that set was??

200hp/152def/52satk/100spe??
 
Lucario (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 220 HP/188 Def/100 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Vacuum Wave
- Calm Mind
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball

That was the one I used.
 
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