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@ Blaziken's Togekiss: For some reason, I really like that set. Not to mention it can Sub on Blissey's T-Wave/Sing/Toxic and Encore that up, while either NPing to +6 or Baton Passing to something like Gyarados to make sure it gets at least +2 Atk/Speed thanks to Sub (unless Bliss switches out right away). [sarcasm] But what can Togekiss honestly do to Blissey? [/sarcasm] However, if it were to start NPing, the only thing it could really do is Baton Pass, and I hate using pure set up Pokes *coughNINJASKcough*, but that's just me.

I'll have to try that out.
 
People seem surprised with this wonderful set.

Raikou @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 40 HP / 216 Speed / 252 Special Attack
*Thunderbolt
*Hidden Power: Ice / Grass
*Shadow Ball
*Calm Mind

People are so in love with the stupid CM Sub, no special attack EV stupid raikou that they don't even think about this. This thing hit's so hard its unbelieveable. After a CM and a life orb, HP Ice / Grass kills every ground pokemon in the game in one shot except Hippo (~96%), and Garchomp or Swampert, depending on the HP you use. Pick your poison, but otherwise, standard ground types will bite the dust and Thunderbolt does enormous amounts of damage. Shadow Ball catches bulkier things like Dusknoir and Cresselia off guard, and really punishes them. One of the best special sweepers IMO, because he isn't too frail, and can easily get a CM off, even if they don't switch. (CM and laugh at a slow special attack, then sweep).
 
yeah, but when blissey comes and thunderwaves you and then garchomp comes in on the thunderbolt...uh-oh? you forgot to have a sub up or put him defensively...so now you have dead raikou.
 
I've been running this Honchkrow with great success (even if it does use focus sash):

Honchkrow @ focus sash
ability: Insomnia
158 HP/ 252 ATK/ 100 Sp.attack
Rash Nature
-HP (electric)
-thunderwave
-Drill Peck
-Sucker Punch

This thing is pretty much an Anti-lead. For those Gengar who love to hypnosis, you can thunderwave without worrying about sleep thanks to insomnia. When Gyarados come in you can 2HKO them with HP electric or paralyze them. Sucker Punch and Drill Peck are there for stab moves that can kill gengar, Azelf, or other annoying pokes.

How do you like?
 
Glycine said:
First off, I'd like to say hi, though I should have done that in another forum.

As for my pitch. I loved Ursaring even in GSC, along with some others, so I occasionally scan their movelists for random moves. As such...

Ursaring
Ability: Quick Feet(Guts would be pretty useless)
EVs: XXX Spd, 252 Sp. Atk, XXX HP(An opinion on allocation is needed)
Nature: Modest (-Atk, +Sp. Atk)
- Fake Tears
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power/Focus Blast
- ??? (I could use a little help, seeing as it doesn't have quite the best moveset)

But the rationale behind this, besides the shock factor of an Ursaring not using its best stat, is that Fake Tears+Hyper Beam is guaranteed to one-shot a non-special wall, especially a Weezing or Skarmory deceived into thinking it's a physical wall. I'd love for someone to check these.

Fake Tears+Hyper Beam against a 252 HP, 252 Def Weezing: 100% Damage 100% of the time.

To take one and survive, a Weezing would need 238 Sp. Def, which it can only attain via 252 in Sp. Def.

Fake Tears+Hyper Beam against a 252 HP, 252 Def Skarmory: 75-88%, which is quite nice, despite being resisted. Fake-Tears+Focus Blast does much more, though, with 80-94% suffered.

As for the counters... Ghost types will screw with it, any sort of fast sweeper will come in, though risk a hit, and explode it, and special walls follow their namesake, albeit first having to risk it being physical and being demolished on the switch.

In fact, the only way I can see this coming in is on a switch, as that gives it time to set up with Fake Tears. It seems so underrated, as it hits 100% of the time, unlike Screech, which can be blocked.

Sort of like a glass cannon.
Click to expand...

I like this idea. I tried it out and it worked pretty good, just a little hard to switch in.

I gave it this EV spread, but just to let you know...I'm not very good with EV spreads: 4 HP/ 126 Def/ 252 Sp.Att/ 126 Sp.Def

And I went with this moveset:
Fake Tears
Hyper Beam
Focus Blast
Hidden Power[Ghost]
 
How about this Sableye. It's all about switching in on a Psychic, Normal, or Fighting attack, Knock Off on the switch, Night Shade or Seismic Toss for subs, and Payback for power. Night Shade and Seismic Toss hits everything, so it can't be walled by Ghosts with S-Toss, or Norms with Shade. If you want to bypass Stall with Shadow Sneak, you can replace Night Shade as Normals are more of a problem than ghosts with Subs. Payback gets STAB and you always go last with Stall. The Def/SpD EVs depend on your preference.

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Stall
EVs: 252 HP, 120 Def/136 SpD, 136/120 Atk
Nature: Brave
Knock Off
Seismic Toss
Night Shade/Shadow Sneak
Payback

This set is probably a bit messed up. I'm not an expert.
 
Um, Zerix, I'm pretty sure this has been stated before. But, w/e. I'm no good with EVs, so maybe someone else can help. Seismic toss? NightShade/Shadow Sneak? Try Shadow claw, since even though Shadow Sneak bypasses Stall, it is weaker. Brick Break over Seismic Toss. You want the opposing Pokemon dead as fast as you can get it dead. Seismic toss will take a while. You don't need to worry about Sub + Foucus Punch, since it doesn't effect you. Also get your ass to the site! Dimension site that is.
 
Well, sucks for me then! I don't have time to read over 40 pages of creative movesets. I check to see if it was in the Smogon analysis and it wasn't, so I went for it! And, I shall go to Dimension, I guess...
 
Ok, I'm in the Syclant server on shoddy, and 3 battles in a row had an Abomasnow lead to start the hail. 2 were the Mixed lead version and the other was a Sub/Seed/Punch version, so I decided to make a counter. Here goes.

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Naughty
28 Speed IVs
172 HP/240 Attack/90 Defense/8 Special Attack
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
-Fire Blast

The IVs allow it to hit 155 Speed (The mixed Abomasnow hits 156). This allows Sandstream to take effect rather than Snow Warning. This also effectively screws Syclant. 8 Special Attack EVs makes Fire Blast a gauranteed OHKO on Abomasnow when factoring in Snadstorm. Even if there is a switch, something (like Syclant, Forretress, and Skarmory) won't like a Fire Blast. The defense allows Ttar to survive a Wood Hammer with ~50% health. This is why I went with Expert Belt over Life Orb, as the recoil would be offputting. Leftovers on Ttar is also an option, but more Special Attack EVs would be needed for the KO. The rest of the set is pretty much standard Ttar. This is also good for Weavile leads.

Any critiques/suggestion?
 
Tsukikage said:
Ok, I'm in the Syclant server on shoddy, and 3 battles in a row had an Abomasnow lead to start the hail. 2 were the Mixed lead version and the other was a Sub/Seed/Punch version, so I decided to make a counter. Here goes.

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Naughty
28 Speed IVs
172 HP/240 Attack/90 Defense/8 Special Attack
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
-Fire Blast

The IVs allow it to hit 155 Speed (The mixed Abomasnow hits 156). This allows Sandstream to take effect rather than Snow Warning. This also effectively screws Syclant. 8 Special Attack EVs makes Fire Blast a gauranteed OHKO on Abomasnow when factoring in Snadstorm. Even if there is a switch, something (like Syclant, Forretress, and Skarmory) won't like a Fire Blast. The defense allows Ttar to survive a Wood Hammer with ~50% health. This is why I went with Expert Belt over Life Orb, as the recoil would be offputting. Leftovers on Ttar is also an option, but more Special Attack EVs would be needed for the KO. The rest of the set is pretty much standard Ttar. This is also good for Weavile leads.

Any critiques/suggestion?
Click to expand...


Having battled it, I can say first hand that it's a great spread! It fucks up so many thing, such as my Weavile (would a CB Brick Break OHKO? - you should check). You should concider Ice beam to kill any smart-ass Gliscors that think they're tougher than Tar
 
I have one:

Spinda
Sub-puncher
Focus Punch
Substitute
Teeter Dance
Psycho Cut/Thunder Wave
???
Own Tempo
Adamant
52 hp/252 atk/100 df/100 spdef

still needs an item and a final move, though.
 
Dragonzrule said:
I've been running this Honchkrow with great success (even if it does use focus sash):

Honchkrow @ focus sash
ability: Insomnia
158 HP/ 252 ATK/ 100 Sp.attack
Rash Nature
-HP (electric)
-thunderwave
-Drill Peck
-Sucker Punch

This thing is pretty much an Anti-lead. For those Gengar who love to hypnosis, you can thunderwave without worrying about sleep thanks to insomnia. When Gyarados come in you can 2HKO them with HP electric or paralyze them. Sucker Punch and Drill Peck are there for stab moves that can kill gengar, Azelf, or other annoying pokes.

How do you like?
Click to expand...
I ran a mixed HP Fire Honchkrow as a lead on Shoddy; it worked wonders. However, I soon realized that it was more of a surprise than an anti-lead.

Here are the 15 most popular leads on Shoddy for January:

1. Gyarados- HP Electric owns it, saved by Sash after it goes for the somewhat obvious DD.

2. Gengar- Raped by Sucker Punch, lawls at Hypnosis.

3. Bronzong- Switch.

4. Tyranitar- Switch.

5. Salamence- Most likely SpecsMence, won't die from a Sucker Punch, switch.

6. Hippowdon- Switch.

7. Ninjask- Most likely Drill Peck until it Baton Passes and hope you get lucky.

8. Yanmega- Most- if not all- lead Yanmegas are going to be Sashed, watch out for that.

9. Abomasnow- Abomasnow won't want to take a Drill Peck to the face.

10. Weavile- Switch, Sucker Punch will do lol damage and it can Ice Shard Honch back.

11. Metagross- Eh, might wanna go for the T-Wave to screw over AgiliGross, but watch out in case it's CB'd.

12. Roserade- Does pretty well against, Rose'll be going for the quick sleep, dodge that and Drill Peck.

13. Infernape- Watch out for CounterSash variants, you'll most likely want to switch.

14. Jolteon- It's either Subbing or Agility-ing, go for whatever damage you can or switch.

15. Breloom- Go for the Drill Peck, hopefully Insomnia will surprise it.

It does well against: 5/15 leads. (Some are debatable)

However, the whole sleep thing relies a lot on your opponent's knowledge of abilities, especially against stuff like Breloom, where it'll be going for the sleep.

Here's the lead Honchkrow I ran, for shits and giggles.

dpmfa430.png


Honchkrow @ Focus Sash
Nature: Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk/224 Sp Atk/34 Speed
Ability: Insomnia
Moveset:
-Drill Peck
-Whirlwind
-Sucker Punch
-HP Fire

Its low speed is saved by Sash. EVs allow it to OHKO Forry/Scizor and 2HKO (although not guaranteed, I think 70%-ish guaranteed) Skarmory. It really likes max attack, and the rest is just dumped in speed.

Drill Peck is its main STAB move, and a pretty safe choice when leading. You don't want to go Sucker Punching everything ASAP, or else they'll just bring in something like Dusknoir or Weezing and just WoW you, getting rid of the Sash and crippling its strong point- attack. Whirlwind allows you to get rid of annoying Subbers and Set-uppers. I find that most T-Tar leads are Boah, and they go for the obvious Sub, and you can Whirlwind it away, taking away a nice chunk of its HP as well. Nothing Jask can do about a Whirlwind, really.

So how about 'dem match ups?

1. Gyarados- Whirlwind is pretty obvious, I don't see why anyone would go for the Taunt.

2. Gengar- Raped by Sucker Punch, lawls at Hypnosis.

3. Bronzong- Could try your luck with HP Fire, although it doesn't do as much to Bronzong as it does to Skarm and Forry, maybe 30-35%-ish.

4. Tyranitar- Go for the Whirlwind, it's probably Subbing up or DDing.

5. Salamence- Most likely SpecsMence, won't die from a Sucker Punch, switch.

6. Hippowdon- Could go for the WW, it's most likely setting up SR, gives you a chance to scout a bit.

7. Ninjask- Whirlwind.

8. Yanmega- Drill Peck, don't wanna do anything else in fear of giving away a couple of surprises.

9. Abomasnow- Abomasnow won't want to take a Drill Peck to the face. It's switching, so you could WW as well, to scout a bit.

10. Weavile- Switch, Sucker Punch will do lol damage and it can Ice Shard Honch back.

11. Metagross- Probably wanna switch, don't wanna Sucker Punch in case it Agilities up. HP Fire won't do enough to kill it.

12. Roserade- Does pretty well against, Rose'll be going for the quick sleep, dodge that and Drill Peck.

13. Infernape- It does pretty well against Nape, since it will most likely be some CounterSash variant, or NPing up, so you can either WW or Drill Peck, really.

14. Jolteon- Either hope it doesn't T-Bolt and go for the WW, or let it set up. Whirwind.

15. Breloom- Obvious Drill Peck, hope it forgets about your ability.

It does well against: 7-9/15 leads. (Some are debatable)

Eh, it's a bit outdated since it was created in the time of ScarfCross leads. :\ Oh well, let me know what you guys think, if anything...
 
@ Bentendo13 - I agree I love starter Honchkrow. I do use a different moveset and EV Spread though. Let us thank ChouToshio. =D
 
Gah any notable wall/tank sets? I need to wall infernapes, yet all three of mine are weak to it and I have to replace one, but I have no idea which.
 
CounterStar works too. But I'll get GKed on the switch once the opponents catches on. Actually, it depends on the set Infernape has.
 
Mixape is the most common version. I say switching in Tentacruel is a pretty safe bet against 'Nape, at least until the mixape craze subsides. If I sense that it may be physical, I send in 'Tomb or Uxie next.
 
This has been the best lead I've ever used:

Suicune @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 30 HP/228 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]

With the EV Spread you get 457 SpA and 266 Spd (enough to beat Breloom).

Top 15 ShoddyBattle leads:
Damage calcs are based on my own experiences because I have fought these leads a lot with SpecsCune.

Gyarados (13090 leads)
Stay in and HP Electric. Most people stay in because Gyara usually gets free DDs from Suicune thanks to Taunt.

Gengar (12669 leads)
Hydro Pump is a 1hko. Surf has a good chance of KOing. TBolt does about 66%. Cune has a good chance of surviving Specs TBolt.

Bronzong (11696 leads)
Surf/Hydro Pump hit it pretty hard. I usually stay in but if you have a sleep absorber you should switch to that.

Tyranitar (10024 leads)
Stay in and hit the switch hard with Surf or Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump is 1hko, Surf is close.

Salamence (9885 leads)
Survives Specs Draco Meteor. Ice Beam or predict a switch and Surf.

Hippowdon (8437 leads)
Surf or Ice Beam. I usually Ice Beam to try to hit something like a Celebi switch-in.

Ninjask (6880 leads)
Surf will hit the BP reciever hard. Switch to a phazer if you have one.

Yanmega (6196 leads)
Ice Beam 1hkos. Switch to sleep absorber if you have one.

Abomasnow (6103 leads)
Switch. Ice Beam does like 40%.

Weavile (5876 leads)
Hydro Pump 1hkos, Surf does a lot. Stay in.

Metagross (5798 leads)
Surf will do about the same as a CB TPunch and you'll outspeed it.

Roserade (5767 leads)
Switch.

Infernape (5637 leads)
Specs version might KO with Grass Knot. Specs isn't that common though. I always stay in.

Jolteon (5636 leads)
T-bolt does about 80% to you. I usually stay in for a turn to get rid of the sub then switch to absorb the T-bolt.

Breloom (4933 leads)
You barely outspeed it. Free kill with Ice Beam.

It also 2hkos most Swampert with Surf and 1hkos most fragile sweepers (Lucario, Azelf, etc.)

-------------
And another set that has been doing well for me:

Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 56 HP/252 Atk/200 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Stone Edge
- Substitute
- Earthquake

I like this set because a lot of people can only stop Mamo with prediction. By substituting on a switch that becomes much harder. Great in the late game.
 
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