Basically, don't run a 100% swagplay team and take care of those pokemon how you normally would.
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Other PranksterSwag Teams
- Thread starter SoulRed12
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Dread Arceus
total cockhead
Actually, this
Speaking of Numel, Numel is actually the only thing in the game lacking Magic Bounce guaranteed to not be hit by Thunder Wave or Swagger, due to its Ground typing and Own Tempo ability.
So, list of 100% counters: Natu, Xatu, Espeon, Numel, and Mega Absol if it's already evolved. All other counters can technically be beaten, given enough hax.
Edit to be more helpful and less ranty: The main thing you can do against Parafusion teams is run Thundurus-I with Taunt, or other Pranksters carrying Taunt. Physically attacking Ground types like Excadrill and Garchomp can also punish your opponent for deciding to be a douche, as they can take the +2 and just smash things (assuming they don't kill themselves...). Finally, putting Magic Coat on random things can be hilarious, however, it's distribution is quite low, and is basically used only by Smeargle and the Deos.
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Man, I hate this strat. The one time I've forfeit was on a team with a Klefki that alone killed half of my team, and was behind a sub with full health. I find myself reducing the IVs of all non physical attackers I get to avoid taking much damage from Foul Play. No matter, Taunt works hilariously against it. After a taunt, they have to switch, since three of their moves aren't attacks. I always lead with a taunter, so I simply have few problems with it.
However, in earlier teams, yes, this was a huge problem for me. I'm not trying to call for a ban, but it truly has potential for it in that it's totally chance based. The similarities to the 'Moody' ability are pretty bad, you know? Enough things shut it down, though, like how the fear strategy was once... Feared.
Maybe it'll just blow over, because in concept, it's a pretty ridiculous idea. To me, at least. It's the roll of a die to see whether you're creating a horribly powerful attacker or a laughing stock. Using Swagger on a Scizor seems stupid, doesn't it?
[EDIT]: Also, yes, I've read the main post and the rules, I'm not supposed to talk about bans. I'm sorry. I'm just bringing up a comparison to something that IS banned.
However, in earlier teams, yes, this was a huge problem for me. I'm not trying to call for a ban, but it truly has potential for it in that it's totally chance based. The similarities to the 'Moody' ability are pretty bad, you know? Enough things shut it down, though, like how the fear strategy was once... Feared.
Maybe it'll just blow over, because in concept, it's a pretty ridiculous idea. To me, at least. It's the roll of a die to see whether you're creating a horribly powerful attacker or a laughing stock. Using Swagger on a Scizor seems stupid, doesn't it?
[EDIT]: Also, yes, I've read the main post and the rules, I'm not supposed to talk about bans. I'm sorry. I'm just bringing up a comparison to something that IS banned.
Has anyone considered Own Tempo Avalugg as a counter to this kind of thing?
No, who the fuck wants to use Avalugg in OU? INB4 niche, there was a 20-something page thread on it and it was deemed unviable. There are plenty of Pokemon who fare alright against these teams, like the ones mentioned above, but SwagPlay is so luck based that true hard counters are few and far between. When shit like Avalugg and Numel is being mentioned, you know you've reached the bottom of the barrel. All Magic Bouncers fall to Foul Play.
In my opinion, the best way to beat these teams without committing too much of your team to it is to use powerful priority and get lucky. If you want to run Sylveon or something anyway, that's great and you will have a much better chance to win (but could still get haxed), but I shouldn't need to run Sylveon just for this. I'm absolutely opposed to a complex ban, especially one involving only moves. I have no idea what should be done about SwagPlay, but in my opinion it is way too autopilot ATM.
Problem with swagplay is that you need two slots to beat it reliably, because you need to be switching out of confusion- that being said, the list of pokemonthat can team up to deal with swagplay is more than twice as big as the list of pokemon that singlehandedly deal with it.
Also blissey + a ground/electric type is a fantastic full-stop to swagplay. Blissey has natural cure to deal with thunder wave and can pass wishes to the ground type/heal herself, and this can keep going until you pp stall them out. More likely, you will be able to strike through confusion eventually and kill them. Ideally make sure you have hazards up on their side while stalling them out so they have to sacrifice hp of something more useful when they switch out, and obviously a good spinner is required if your pokemon dont have rock resistance, because you'll be switching a lot.
Also blissey + a ground/electric type is a fantastic full-stop to swagplay. Blissey has natural cure to deal with thunder wave and can pass wishes to the ground type/heal herself, and this can keep going until you pp stall them out. More likely, you will be able to strike through confusion eventually and kill them. Ideally make sure you have hazards up on their side while stalling them out so they have to sacrifice hp of something more useful when they switch out, and obviously a good spinner is required if your pokemon dont have rock resistance, because you'll be switching a lot.
I repeat:
This is really easy to deal with if you have even two remotely bulky and/or dark resistant pokemon with recovery.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-84700052
This is how to deal with them. Just get lucky, and Espeed everything...
This is how to deal with them. Just get lucky, and Espeed everything...
This was satisfying to watch, but man you had some excellent luck there. I think anyone using this strategy to build a whole team deserves to get some manner after match though. Laughing at them is definitely in order. I hate how this uncompetitive, brain dead and luck reliant strategy gets abused so much. I concur with Sylveon being one of the best possible counters, but fact still remains that its Hyper Voice can't do anything against Klefki. The best I can do is pass a wish to my special sweeper to give them a second chance at dealing with Klefki.
The thing that really makes this "strategy" work is Kelfki.
That little shit can use Spikes which makes switching a pain in the ass, and Prankster Substitues make it so that you cannot reliably take it out in 1 or 2 hits, which gives it enough chances to Swagger you and paralyse half your team.
Also Foul Play is such a disgusting move. It does so much damage, you never expect how much and you can't prep for it (even with a -atk nature) coz your pokemon will most likely be 2HKOed after a Swagger boost!
Fuck that shit.
What works best I think is Mandibuzz (Roost, Defog, and Dark resist) and Clefable (Unaware doesn't count Swagger boosts towards Foul Play but it counts them towards Stored Power, Moonlight/Softboiled, and Dark resist). They take pitiful damage from Foul Play but they still need a couple of turns and luck to actually USE their recovery moves, and I don't think Mandibuzz can do anything back to Kelfki in the first place.
Those two are the most reliable things I could come up with. Once I had to sack my poor Cofagrigus to Mummify a Klefki just so I can have a chance to move before he Swaggers/T-waves/Substitutes.
I still lost that battle because I distinctly remember I only managed to hit TWO times in total during the whole match while I was confused. Fucking bullshit.
Talonflame makes Swag teams even MORE successful since it can take out whatever Subs you have up before that ass key shits all over your team.
FUN.
That little shit can use Spikes which makes switching a pain in the ass, and Prankster Substitues make it so that you cannot reliably take it out in 1 or 2 hits, which gives it enough chances to Swagger you and paralyse half your team.
Also Foul Play is such a disgusting move. It does so much damage, you never expect how much and you can't prep for it (even with a -atk nature) coz your pokemon will most likely be 2HKOed after a Swagger boost!
Fuck that shit.
What works best I think is Mandibuzz (Roost, Defog, and Dark resist) and Clefable (Unaware doesn't count Swagger boosts towards Foul Play but it counts them towards Stored Power, Moonlight/Softboiled, and Dark resist). They take pitiful damage from Foul Play but they still need a couple of turns and luck to actually USE their recovery moves, and I don't think Mandibuzz can do anything back to Kelfki in the first place.
Those two are the most reliable things I could come up with. Once I had to sack my poor Cofagrigus to Mummify a Klefki just so I can have a chance to move before he Swaggers/T-waves/Substitutes.
I still lost that battle because I distinctly remember I only managed to hit TWO times in total during the whole match while I was confused. Fucking bullshit.
Talonflame makes Swag teams even MORE successful since it can take out whatever Subs you have up before that ass key shits all over your team.
FUN.
Rotosect
Banned deucer.
Dread Arceus
total cockhead
1. Multiple people disagreed with you on that thread, including top tier battlers, so saying just "one guy" closed it is a bit ridiculous.
2. Yes, Donphan's an absolute shit spinner that doesn't belong in OU either.
3. Most importantly, wrong thread.
Moving on, I find Whimsicott to be a rather hilarious way to beat other Parafusion teams. It's faster than any other Prankster, and can slowly kill its enemy via Leech Seed, while having protection from Parafusion via Substitute and taking little damage from Foul Play due to typing and stats. Basically, you use a giant douchemon to beat a team of douchemons.
Nobody has mentioned Lum Berry yet. While a somewhat niche item, it still has plenty of uses on many Pokemon, mainly sweepers who want to set up on walls but don't have a moveslot to spare for Substitute (or for whom Substitute would be counterproductive, principally Dragonite). It can't get past an entire swagteam on its own but a free +2 to attack is never a bad thing and it's a good answer to a solitary Swagger user.
Someone mentioned it on the first page I believe.
As for other support mons who do good against swagplay, there's wish Blissey, heal bell lanturn/ampharos, natural cure roserade. All of these pokemon have ways to prevent status on themselves/ take paralysis off another pokemon/ both. Conkeldurr obviously is a decent choice for shitting all over swagplay due to guts, +attack, priority in mach punch and healing. Although not in entirely the same OU boat, Scrafty can shake off status with shed skin, and 4x resist that foul play, while also healing with drain punch. With adamant nature, full attack EVs and at +4 scrafty takes 21-25% maximum from foul play.
As for other support mons who do good against swagplay, there's wish Blissey, heal bell lanturn/ampharos, natural cure roserade. All of these pokemon have ways to prevent status on themselves/ take paralysis off another pokemon/ both. Conkeldurr obviously is a decent choice for shitting all over swagplay due to guts, +attack, priority in mach punch and healing. Although not in entirely the same OU boat, Scrafty can shake off status with shed skin, and 4x resist that foul play, while also healing with drain punch. With adamant nature, full attack EVs and at +4 scrafty takes 21-25% maximum from foul play.
Extreme speed on Klefki and sableye?
Lum Berry on a Ground type seems really good.
Gonna have to stop you right there man.
Perfectly viable OU teams with one or two of the included list on there will still often lose to swag-play teams. Rotom-W in particular can still lose to some bad luck.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-83826027
There is no reason not to ban Swagger/Confusion moves from singles. Its complete bullshit luck, much like moody is. Unaware counters moody, WW/Roar counters it, lets unban moody.
Also I wonder where the OP got the idea for this thread from.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-83425475
Considering you got very lucky thru that match, I don't understand while you whined so much.
I feel as though this Rotom-W misplayed heavily against this Thundurus-I. The move of choice should have been Volt Switch and not Hydro Pump versus Thundurus so that you could simultaneously break the Sub and end confusion. This is why I consider Rotom-W a useful tool versus Swagplay beyond simply being a bulky Pokemon, and I don't feel like that Rotom-W was used properly for the situation.
Misplay or not, all it takes is RNG to kill Rotom-W.
Actually, that battle was a while ago, and it was my first encounter with a team that overtly used the strategy. I saved the replay because I managed to win. As you can see in my OP, I mention I was coming off a disappointing LOSS to the strategy, which replay of course I had no reason to save (and I guess the other guy didn't save it either).
Also, 4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Klefki: 77-91 (24.2 - 28.6%). So Sylveon does at least fairly well against non-specially bulky Klefki, especially considering it doesn't have to worry about subs. If you can get up a calm mind in the meantime, it'll make it slightly easier. If you have wish too, even better.
These kind of team are annoying as fuck and it's extremely easy to get good ladder results using them, just clicking Swagger and Substitute. However, you should run Deoxys-D in a Prankster Swagger team because in that way ur oppo can't even switching out here and there to stall out ur PP. Defog exists but not every team runs it so whatever, and for spinners you have at least ur Sableye / M Banette (even if i dont suggest it due to not have a way to recover its HP without Leftovers). You should run Ditto as well, to copy the boost you give at ur oppo with Swagger and a sort of way to clear the oppo's team when Swagger users have already done their job and something that beat Chansey / Clefable that are extremely annoying. In my experience M Scizor is ok for this job, it deals p well against Chansey / Blissey / Clefable and can also clear the opponent's team with Bullet Punch. Also remove oppo's item with Knock Off is something always useful.
This is REALLY common on the ladder now and it's starting to get old, I win half the games against because they don't luck out but goddamn this is frustrating, these topics shouldn't be made because it only promotes making these teams.
I refuse to run a dedicated 'full prankster swagger team counter' if there even is one.
I refuse to run a dedicated 'full prankster swagger team counter' if there even is one.
I noticed it becoming more common too and that's actually why I made this thread, so we could talk about the least disruptive team building ideas to make it less effective. And, I do think we've gotten some helpful discussion so far.
I don't blame you, mainly because it wouldn't ultimately be beneficial, since with laddering you don't know who you'll battle beforehand and your team has to be able to win continuously. I'd imagine a dedicated swagplay counter team would probably lose to anything else. That's also why even simply "run Xatu" isn't a great suggestion.
Yeah, apologies if my post came over snarky, I just had a freak occurrence of 3 swagplay teams in a row.
Lum Garchomp does ok against Klefki, and Talonflame does well against most Swagger/Prankster users, especially if you can get some form of hazards up, but that's risky because you're essentially giving a free sub.
Honestly the main reason I'm not that up in arms about this is because most users who use this on the ladder are pretty terrible and just hit swagger/foul play/sub in whatever order, which is entirely beatable.
Running into a player who knows what he's doing higher on the ladder is pure terror though because it becomes a retarded RNG fest, which is almost never in your favour.
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Rotom-W + any ground type (Landorus, Excadrill, Hippowdon, etc) can pretty much put a full stop to this. Just play smart and don't let Exca/Lando/your strong ground type take any foul play damage. Stuff like Chansey and Suicune are pretty much a full stop to this shit too.
ROFL, can people please stop saying ''x is a full stop to this''. There's no full stop, both the swagger user and the opponent are relying on the RNG, there's absolutely no counter for this ''strategy'' other than own tempo mons. Confusion is ridiculous uncompetitive, its even worse than baton pass and trapping, at least these two are solely matchup based. Confusion is matchup AND luck based which is just dumb. Seriously how the hell is this thing still allowed after 3 generations is beyond me.
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