Pre-release Gen 7 Monotype Competitive Discussion

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#27
Jangmo-o is looking like the potential pseudo-legend in this Gen. Based on its design, it looks like one of those Ankylosaurus dinosaurs with the spiky shell and tail (kind of like Torterra). The description suggests that this mon might be something like Garchomp with great offense and defense but slower. However, getting Bulletproof and Soundproof is amazing as a Dragon type. First of all, Soundproof takes away both Mega Gardevoir and Sylveon's wall breaking power with Hyper Voice neutralized. If it gets Dragon Dance, it safely can get 1 off without being phased out. Some potential mind games can be played which ability it is as Bullet Proof also makes it safe from stuff like Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Seed Bomb, etc. What concerns me (since I love using Ice) is that its abilities and design suggests that its secondary typing might be Steel aka ... Ice's worst nightmare once it fully evolves. Dragon/Steel is an amazing defensive type being neutral to Fairy (Dragon's enemy) and only weak to Fighting and Ground (which is something Dragon can brush off). Aside from my bias with Ice, this definitely is something Dragon Users will be excited about.
 
#28
With such weird names like type:null and UB-01, I think there's gonna be a whole new variety of artificial pokemon. With the trailer also revealing that the aether foundation has a private and artificial Island, and they seem very scientific with their attire, it looks like pokemon is leaning more towards man made pokemon, we know for sure that magearna is one, and it's gonna have a big role, so let's see whats in store.
 
#29
And don't forget the Ultra Beast creatively nicknamed UB-01! But seriously Type: Null looks like it should be Steel type if anything. Although on Serebii this is the description for Type: Null;

This Pokémon wearing a mask has been dubbed “Null,” meaning nothing. The shapes of its front and hind legs are clearly different. The reason is that Type: Null was constructed to synthesize the strengths of various Pokémon, enabling it to adapt to any situation. The mask fitted to Type: Null’s head is a piece of equipment designed to control its latent powers. It’s extremely heavy, so it also serves to hinder Type: Null’s agility. To complete a certain mission, there was need of a Pokémon powerful enough to rival those Pokémon often spoken of in mythology.

Won't care much for Alolan Raticate but it may (probably not) help Normal win more definitively over Ghost. Still really would prefer a Ghost/fighting type to bring out some more balance though.

It will be interesting to see what comes of them all though
 

iLlama

Nothing personal, I protect my people
is a Pre-Contributor
#30
With Jangmo-o, will Gen 7 be the rise of Dragon again? I also don't think Alolan Raticate will be all that special. If anything it will basically be a slower Durant.
 
#31
Z-Moves
These i feel will add great viability to types that dont have reliable strong stab which can bring certain types like Rock up from relying on Stone Edge. If they do take up an item its not really unbalanced because from what I understand thry are only using STAB attacks so like Keldeo cant use a flying Z-Move making it not really increasing coverage but gives a chance for certain types to have more reliable STAB.

Personally if the Z moves are restricted to that certain Monotype I think they wouod be more balanced like on Water Keldeo can only use Water Z moves not Fighting Type Z moves making them more predictable and easier to counter.
 
#32
Is UB-01 even going to be a usable pokemon? It doesn't show up on the pokemon page on the official website, and was never shown using moves or doing anything pokemon-like.

Type: Null seems cool. Probably a slow, bulky physical attacker. I doubt normal will find a spot for it though, unless it has some really stellar stats/movepool. The pure Normal typing doesn't seem to offer much, and while the ability isn't actively bad, it could be better.

If it gets another form without the helmet (maybe with protean or adaptability, by the description?), I can see it getting banned, since it'll have stats on par with legendaries.
 
#33
Z-Moves
These i feel will add great viability to types that dont have reliable strong stab which can bring certain types like Rock up from relying on Stone Edge. If they do take up an item its not really unbalanced because from what I understand thry are only using STAB attacks so like Keldeo cant use a flying Z-Move making it not really increasing coverage but gives a chance for certain types to have more reliable STAB.

Personally if the Z moves are restricted to that certain Monotype I think they wouod be more balanced like on Water Keldeo can only use Water Z moves not Fighting Type Z moves making them more predictable and easier to counter.
The Gamescon footage had Pikachu use the Normal type Z-move over Slam, so no, you are not limited to only STAB Z-Moves.
Keldeo can turn Icy Wind into a one-time Ice nuke if it can live without a Life Orb /Choice Specs.


Also the Ultra Beasts are clearly no Pokémon, I doubt that you will even be able to use one in your party.
 
#34
We barely know anything about Z moves. We don't know their base power, which pokemon get which moves, or anything else to be honest. We don't even know if they're going to be viable at all. Why would we already be considering a clause to balance something we know nothing about?

Based on what we know right now, I'm inclined to think they won't even be that good. Viable in some cases, sure, but not overpowered in the slightest. Seeing whether or not my prediction ends up being true is just something that we'll have to wait for.

So that this post isn't entirely negative, I'll give some predictions on a few pokemon I'm really excited about:


Mimikyu
Easily one of my favorite new pokemon so far in both design and competitive potential. I'm hoping Mimikyu will be hugely beneficial for Ghost teams. Judging based on its design it likely won't have much bulk, but its ability and typing make it look like an ideal utility mon. Guaranteed to take no damage from one move? NICE. Of course there's a good chance I'm overplaying this and it'll end up being garbage, but I have really high hopes for this little guy.



Minior
Again, another huge favorite of mine. Shields Down has some really interesting competitive potential. Based on the assumption that the shelled form is very bulky and the core form is very fast, I can easily see it being a threat with Weakness Policy. It could take a super effective hit in the shelled form and then proceed to sweep with Acrobatics after Weakness Policy and Shields Down activate. Unfortunately it'll be weak to some common priority moves like Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch so it probably won't be seen on Flying teams much, but I can imagine Rock teams really appreciating its role as a wincon.

I know I made a lot of assumptions in that analysis, but I think they're all pretty safe assumptions based on what we know.



Wishiwashi
This one is a bit of a wildcard. I really don't know how it will turn out viability-wise, but the concept is fascinating. The main reason I'm including Wishiwashi is because of this trailer:
skip to 1:40
Now I'm not entirely sure which move that Magnezone used. It could either be Zap Cannon or Electro Ball. If it used Electro Ball, then just ignore this point. But if it used Zap Cannon...holy shit Wishiwashi is going to be bulky as all hell. Unfortunately its typing isn't very good for monotype so I doubt we'll see it much either way, but there's still a chance it'll find a place for itself in the metagame.



Jangmo-o
By far my favorite Dragon type in recent gens. I really think this will evolve into the pseudo legend for gen 7 and just be a badass in general. I'm looking forward to seeing its evolutions almost as much as I'm looking forward to seeing Rowlet's.

Now that I've gone full-on fanboy for this thing, I have a prediction that, if true, could make Jangmo-o very competitive in monotype.
Jangmo-o has the pride of a warrior, although it remains humble about its capabilities. In its pursuit to become stronger, it never neglects its training. Because Jangmo-o uses the scales on its head for both offense and defense, it never turns its back to its enemies. Many Trainers see this behavior and take it as proof that Jangmo-o is a valiant Pokémon. Jangmo-o gather in harsh locales like canyons, where no other people or Pokémon are around, to live together as they train.
Besides Jangmo-o, what do the bolded parts also describe? Medieval knights. In addition, what color are the scales that it supposedly uses for both offense and defense? Silver and gold, colors of metal. I think the evidence is pretty clear that it's going to evolve into a Dragon/Steel type with a design based on the knights of medieval Europe. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, but I have a lot of faith in this theory.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you all how great Dragon/Steel typing would be for monotype, but I'll tell you anyway. Dragon teams would have a solid answer to both Fairy and Ice teams in one teamslot that isn't weak to their STAB moves and has super effective STAB of its own. If all my assumptions/theories about Jangmo-o end up being true, I think it could make Dragon teams the #1 type next gen all on its own.



Type: Null
Looks kind of stupid, but I'm sure it'll be OP as hell somehow. It might be like Hoopa-U, where it just skirts the boundary of being banworthy, but idk. I don't have much to say about this one, but if it doesn't get banned I'm nearly positive it'll have a presence in our metagame in some way.



Tapu Koko
This one has been known about for a while so I'm not as hyped for it anymore, but it really is an exciting pokemon to think about competitively. Its ability to set Electric Terrain just by switching in is outstanding for Electric teams and its typing is a good addition to both Electric and Fairy teams. I'd imagine this and Alolan Raichu could make a potent offensive core for Electric with Tapu Koko setting Electric Terrain and Alolan Raichu sweeping with its ability Surge Surfer. I'm not sure what kind of offensive stats Alolan Raichu will have, but if they're increased at all compared to standard Raichu, it could be quite a threatening sweeper.



Palossand
I sincerely doubt this sandcastle will have any competitive viability so this is going to be going off topic a bit, but I just cannot get over how stupid this thing is. It's so stupid that I really really love it.
"Palossand controls human adults, making them build a sand castle that provides camouflage and also raises its defensive abilities."

It forces people to build sandcastles. That is quite literally one of the most innocent things you can make someone do under your control. It could be like "go drown yourself in the ocean", but no, instead it makes people play in the sand.

"Unlike Sandygast, if Palossand loses some of the sand from its body, it can restore itself on its own. When moving about in search of prey, the shovel on top of Palossand’s head revolves. It’s said that the shovel could be serving as some kind of radar."

L.M.A.O. It has a shovel radar. A literal shovel that rotates on its head like a radar. It wasn't enough that it's a living sandcastle, they had to give it a shovel sticking out of its head. Too perfect. Never change, gamefreak. NEVER change.

"Palossand loves the vitality of Pokémon and drags small Pokémon into its body so it can steal their life force. Its sandy vortex swallows them up in a heartbeat! Pokémon dragged into Palossand leave traces of their ill will behind. It’s thought that this negative energy may be the starting point of new Sandygast..."

Well that got dark fast... It went from being a total meme with a shovel on its head to the kind of thing you'd find in a bad horror movie. It has an evil side. I like that!
I think the best way to describe Palossand is this: an angry pile of sand that turns the spirits of other pokemon into smaller angry piles of sand. This thing is the definition of a stupid design done right.


TL,DR:
  • Mimikyu will be cool for ghost teams.
  • Minior could be a nice late-game sweeper for Rock teams depending on how different its two forms are in terms of stats.
  • Wishiwashi might be bulky as hell depending on what move the Magnezone in the trailer used.
  • I'm a total fanboy for Jangmo-o and I think it'll be a Dragon/Steel pseudo legend.
  • Idc about Type: Null.
  • Tapu Koko is going to be good on both its types.
  • Palossand will suck but it's the best joke pokemon ever made.
 
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#35
We barely know anything about Z moves. We don't know their base power, which Pokemon get which moves, or anything else to be honest. We don't even know if they're going to be viable at all. Why would we already be considering a clause to balance something we know nothing about?
Thank god those Z moves can be only used once per battle cause those things hit like a nuke. Even though we don't know its exact base power, we definitely know it's up there in the conversation with Self Destruct/Explosion if a Snorlax OKHO'd a Dragonite with its Z move. I seriously doubt that was a Multiscale Dragonite since it OKHO'd; however, based on these calcs against an Inner Focus Dragonite at Level 50:

252 Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 81-96 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Snorlax Self-Destruct vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 157-186 (94.5 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

The scary part of the trailer is... that's an in-game Snorlax so it's very likely that it won't have that many EVs invested into Attack in general meaning that Z moves would have to be at least 200 base power or exceeding to have a legitimate chance to OKHO.

Every pokemon (barring megas) can use Z moves as long as they meet the conditions from the website: "There are two conditions for performing Z-Moves: a Pokémon must learn a move of the same type as a Z-Crystal, and it must be holding the corresponding Z-Crystal." However, this is where you really have to weigh out the situations about its viability.

1. Let's say Terrakion is holding a Steel Z Move while running Iron Head in its move set to beat Fairy Walls. Since it already outspeeds most Fairy mons, this really helps it get an OKHO against something like Clefable who would normally live a non-STAB Iron Head from even Kyurem-Black.

2. Since you slap on a Z-Crystal to Terrakion, you can't run its Choice Scarf, Choice Band, or Life Orb set which is giving up a lot for a 5th move to knock out 1 Pokemon in my opinion.

3. You end up revealing your some of your moves and even EV spread. Although this doesn't seem like a big deal against experienced players, it's definitely a huge factor if you're that type of person who runs a Normal type Z move on a Skarmory which ends up revealing Roar/Whirlwind. Also, your opponent to switch into a Pokemon that can safely revenge kill/double switch with no Leftovers/Eviolite to increase your chances of living hits, you potentially miss out on a KO due to not running a Damage boosting item if you still outspeed, and you miss out on chip damage with no Rocky Helmet.

The cost of running a Z Move is like having a free King Mushroom for 1 whole lap in Mario Kart but you can't use any item boxes before and after the King Mushroom is used up (if anyone played Mario Kart, items make a huge difference finishing from 1st to 11th competitively). If you get it off, that's a great momentum swing but you leave yourself vulnerable to your opponent to send in a check that can wall, dent, or set up safely on your team. The risks of running a Z Move wouldn't really demand a ban clause so if someone wants to lose out on a Mega (if you run a Z move on something like Gardevoir), Leftovers, Choice item, etc. for a Nuke, they will know what they signed up for.
 
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Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
#36
I think if Z Moves see any use they'll be on pokemon that have got such good coverage between their STAB moves they can afford to run an extra strong STAB to get past some of their checks. To use your Terrakion example, I theorymonned something that looked like this:

Terrakion @ Rock Z Crystal
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Rock Z Move

We all know Terrakion has ridiculously good coverage between it's STAB moves, but even after a Swords Dance, it can just fail to break past some of it's bulkier checks such as phys def Gliscor, Slowbro and Landorus-T. With the addition of a potential 200 BP plus move, after a Swords Dance these pokemon just topple.

For the purpose of these calcs, Rock Slide is a 200 BP Rock move to simulate the Z Move.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 286-337 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 244 HP / 200+ Def Gliscor: 270-320 (76.7 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 247-292 (64.6 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 438-516 (111.1 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 244 HP / 200+ Def Gliscor: 415-490 (117.8 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 379-447 (99.2 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO


The beauty of it is that it can almost replace coverage thanks to it being so strong, if we assume 200BP again, even on a 2x resisted hit it's hitting just as strong as Stone Edge would on an unresisted hit so it can even break through softer checks that rely on resists to beat it. For example:

+2 252 Atk Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 365-429 (99.7 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Nidoqueen is generally a decent Terrakion check but good lord it just gets blown away. I think similar to Assault Vests this gen, cases where pokemon can actually run this well without giving up more practical sets will be few and far between but it'll be interesting to see.
 
#37
I am surprised nobody has talked about Rockruff´s evolution yet. While we know very little about Day and Night form (not even whether they stay pure Rock or gain an additional type), the fact that at least one of them has a Rock type priority attack would be a huge buff for Rock teams, which tend to be rather slow except for Mega Diancie, Aerodactyl and maybe Terrakion.
 

G-Luke

We Eat Losers
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
#38
So lets talk about how good the new reveals are.

Lycanroc-Midday seems as if Rock would get a big boost in viability thanks to it having Sand Rush. Especially since Lycanroc apparentky has more than 70 base speed. I could easily see Ttar + Lycanroc builds wrecking alot of teams. Rock type priority is Icing on the cake.

Lycanroc-Midnight looks lame gowever,.and if its premise is a slow bulky Rock type, it will face severe competition on a teamslot.

Passimian looks like rubbish. Just saying.

Oranguru can be promising for both Normal and Psychic if it has the right stats, but faces stiff competition from Meloetta.
 
#39
Dragon and water keep getting better each gen. I won't discuss Water cause it's obvious. Dragon got two mons that are neutral to fairy, one is neutral to ice, has access to rapid spin(!) and fire STAB. Just give Dragon Knock Off and is gonna be the new Psychic
 

scpinion

Congrats Monotype community! :)
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#40
The SuMo demo is only a few days away and the official release just a month after that!

Monotype has the (reasonably) unique opportunity to begin tiering our metagame as soon as the games have been data mined and implemented into PS. Most standard tiers must wait months to begin this process. As such, we need a plan heading into the new generation!

How are we going to approach tiering?
What about all those bans from ORAS?

The council discussed these (and other) things over the last couple weeks and we're excited to present our plan for how Monotype will approach the new metagame.

1. No changes to the tiering philosophy itself.
It served us well through the latter half of ORAS and we think it will serve us well into SuMo. We'll continue to have a simple banlist; ban broken, uncompetitive, and unhealthy elements; and approach the various types such that no single type is overpowered.

2. Mega Evolutions
The policy for what mega evolutions are legal on a particular type will change. This change will not apply retroactively to the ORAS meta.

The current policy for mega evolutions leads to teams that violate the concept of Monotype. Players may access permanent form changes that do not share a type with the rest of the team (e.g. Mega Gyarados on Flying). Moving forward, any non-volatile, in-battle form change must satisfy the Same Type Clause. For mega evolutions this means both the base and mega forms must share a type with the rest of the team.

3. A plan for tiering the early metagame

a) Start with a Minimalistic Banlist
Each member of the council was allowed to interpret this idea as liberally as they liked. We held a vote that included most everything that is currently banned (all cover legends and obviously OP things were excluded). Elements that received 4/7 votes will begin the gen7 metagame banned. The list is subject to change based on the future releases from Nintendo. The primary goal is to allow the community to evaluate these elements in the new metagame. We don't expect all this stuff to be healthy, but we want to test it.

Unbanned: Aegislash, Altarianite, Blaziken(-mega), Charizardite X, Damp Rock, Genesect, Greninja, Metagrossite, Sablenite, Slowbronite, Smooth Rock.

Remains Banned: Darkrai, Deoxys(-Attack), Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Lucarionite, Mawilite, Talonflame.

b) Aggressively Tier the Early SuMo Metagame via Council Decisions
Every ~7-14 days the council will take a vote on things the community has identified as problematic. Our options will be: ban, no ban, or wait. This way you guys know where the council stands on controversial elements in the early stages of the metagame. This system is predicated on your participation in the official gen7 discussion thread once it goes up. If you have problems with elements of the metagame, that is the place to bring them up! We, the council, will be active and engaged so we can work together as a community to rapidly reach a healthy metagame.

c) Avoid borderline cases in council decisions.
After the initial period where the council makes decisions as described above, we will shift to the standard Smogon suspect process. During the time where bans will come directly from the council, we will avoid borderline cases. To help enforce this, any council ban will require a supermajority in the early stages. This lets us have a healthy suspect process after the early metagame; and, most importantly, this policy allows you, the community, to tier elements that are not blatantly broken.​

~~~~~

What are your thoughts?
How do you think these new things will fit into the meta?
What is getting the banhammer first? :D
 
#43
The SuMo demo is only a few days away and the official release just a month after that!

Monotype has the (reasonably) unique opportunity to begin tiering our metagame as soon as the games have been data mined and implemented into PS. Most standard tiers must wait months to begin this process. As such, we need a plan heading into the new generation!

How are we going to approach tiering?
What about all those bans from ORAS?

The council discussed these (and other) things over the last couple weeks and we're excited to present our plan for how Monotype will approach the new metagame.

1. No changes to the tiering philosophy itself.
It served us well through the latter half of ORAS and we think it will serve us well into SuMo. We'll continue to have a simple banlist; ban broken, uncompetitive, and unhealthy elements; and approach the various types such that no single type is overpowered.

2. Mega Evolutions
The policy for what mega evolutions are legal on a particular type will change. This change will not apply retroactively to the ORAS meta.

The current policy for mega evolutions leads to teams that violate the concept of Monotype. Players may access permanent form changes that do not share a type with the rest of the team (e.g. Mega Gyarados on Flying). Moving forward, any non-volatile, in-battle form change must satisfy the Same Type Clause. For mega evolutions this means both the base and mega forms must share a type with the rest of the team.

3. A plan for tiering the early metagame

a) Start with a Minimalistic Banlist
Each member of the council was allowed to interpret this idea as liberally as they liked. We held a vote that included most everything that is currently banned (all cover legends and obviously OP things were excluded). Elements that received 4/7 votes will begin the gen7 metagame banned. The list is subject to change based on the future releases from Nintendo. The primary goal is to allow the community to evaluate these elements in the new metagame. We don't expect all this stuff to be healthy, but we want to test it.

Unbanned: Aegislash, Altarianite, Blaziken(-mega), Charizardite X, Damp Rock, Genesect, Greninja, Metagrossite, Sablenite, Slowbronite, Smooth Rock.

Remains Banned: Darkrai, Deoxys(-Attack), Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Lucarionite, Mawilite, Talonflame.

b) Aggressively Tier the Early SuMo Metagame via Council Decisions
Every ~7-14 days the council will take a vote on things the community has identified as problematic. Our options will be: ban, no ban, or wait. This way you guys know where the council stands on controversial elements in the early stages of the metagame. This system is predicated on your participation in the official gen7 discussion thread once it goes up. If you have problems with elements of the metagame, that is the place to bring them up! We, the council, will be active and engaged so we can work together as a community to rapidly reach a healthy metagame.

c) Avoid borderline cases in council decisions.
After the initial period where the council makes decisions as described above, we will shift to the standard Smogon suspect process. During the time where bans will come directly from the council, we will avoid borderline cases. To help enforce this, any council ban will require a supermajority in the early stages. This lets us have a healthy suspect process after the early metagame; and, most importantly, this policy allows you, the community, to tier elements that are not blatantly broken.​

~~~~~

What are your thoughts?
How do you think these new things will fit into the meta?
What is getting the banhammer first? :D
I think what you listed here is great! The unbans I'm interested to see whether in the new metagame they would be still deemed broken or not (the ones I'm personally most curious about is Altarianite, Blaziken, and Genesect), however, while I don't know so much about Slowbronite, I can't really say until SUMO comes around.

The only thing I am personally on the fence about is the new Mega policy. To me this doesn't make a lot of sense in my head, given if the base form can be used on a type, a Mega is basically a "temporary" in-battle form that can provide some unique buffs to a type (for example, Mega Aggron would no longer be usable on Rock, who provides an awesome Steel resistance, and Mega Gyarados would not be able to be used on Flying, which it can provide an Ice Neutrality). With this however, I can see that Mega Charizard X would no longer be allowed on Flying, which may or may not be a good thing (again, new metagame, new threats/checks/counters, I really can't 100% say whether it would still be broken or not). Nonetheless though, I did quite like our old policy when it comes to Mega evolution, and that's my only personal quarrel about this, which truthfully is relatively minor if anything.

The thing I am most looking forward to, which I think we as a community desperately need, is a much more community-based council. A lot of the drama that happened over people hating the council is partially because the community did not have a lot of say on major decisions (especially the extremely controversial ones like the Aegislash quick ban), which I can understand to a certain extent why people were angry. This new approach to avoid borderline cases is probably the best thing we'll get out of this, so we can actually interact and have a say in some of these decisions
 
#44
I agree with sticking to the current tiering philosophy and makes the banlist more simple.

I'm excited to see the unbanned Pokemon see the light of the day in Monotype. I wasn't around when most of those were legal in Monotype so I'm not sure how they affect the metagame but some of them will most likely need a suspect test or maybe even a quick ban depending on their performance and how they affect the metagame. If I had to guess which one is going to get the banhammer first I'd say either Mega Altaria or Mega Metagross. Honorable mention to Mega Slowbro because in my opinion that thing's busted. But like I said, I'm excited to see how they'll fit into the new metagame and I think it'll make things a lot more fresh considering Monotype has gotten a bit stale.

As for the Mega Evolutions thing I'm going to have to disagree. It's not just about the fact that Mega Evolutions such as Mega Aggron and Mega Gyarados help out Rock and Flying, respectively, a lot, but it doesn't make much sense to me why they shouldn't be allowed to Mega Evolve. Up until now if a Pokemon's base form had a type that matches with the type of the rest of the team, it was allowed. This logic makes sense to me and if it was up to me I'd stick with that.

But nonetheless I'm looking forward to seeing how these changes will turn out and where the Monotype metagame will go because things are starting to get pretty exciting.
 
#45
The SuMo demo is only a few days away and the official release just a month after that!

Monotype has the (reasonably) unique opportunity to begin tiering our metagame as soon as the games have been data mined and implemented into PS. Most standard tiers must wait months to begin this process. As such, we need a plan heading into the new generation!

How are we going to approach tiering?
What about all those bans from ORAS?

The council discussed these (and other) things over the last couple weeks and we're excited to present our plan for how Monotype will approach the new metagame.

1. No changes to the tiering philosophy itself.
It served us well through the latter half of ORAS and we think it will serve us well into SuMo. We'll continue to have a simple banlist; ban broken, uncompetitive, and unhealthy elements; and approach the various types such that no single type is overpowered.

2. Mega Evolutions
The policy for what mega evolutions are legal on a particular type will change. This change will not apply retroactively to the ORAS meta.

The current policy for mega evolutions leads to teams that violate the concept of Monotype. Players may access permanent form changes that do not share a type with the rest of the team (e.g. Mega Gyarados on Flying). Moving forward, any non-volatile, in-battle form change must satisfy the Same Type Clause. For mega evolutions this means both the base and mega forms must share a type with the rest of the team.

3. A plan for tiering the early metagame

a) Start with a Minimalistic Banlist
Each member of the council was allowed to interpret this idea as liberally as they liked. We held a vote that included most everything that is currently banned (all cover legends and obviously OP things were excluded). Elements that received 4/7 votes will begin the gen7 metagame banned. The list is subject to change based on the future releases from Nintendo. The primary goal is to allow the community to evaluate these elements in the new metagame. We don't expect all this stuff to be healthy, but we want to test it.

Unbanned: Aegislash, Altarianite, Blaziken(-mega), Charizardite X, Damp Rock, Genesect, Greninja, Metagrossite, Sablenite, Slowbronite, Smooth Rock.

Remains Banned: Darkrai, Deoxys(-Attack), Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Lucarionite, Mawilite, Talonflame.

b) Aggressively Tier the Early SuMo Metagame via Council Decisions
Every ~7-14 days the council will take a vote on things the community has identified as problematic. Our options will be: ban, no ban, or wait. This way you guys know where the council stands on controversial elements in the early stages of the metagame. This system is predicated on your participation in the official gen7 discussion thread once it goes up. If you have problems with elements of the metagame, that is the place to bring them up! We, the council, will be active and engaged so we can work together as a community to rapidly reach a healthy metagame.

c) Avoid borderline cases in council decisions.
After the initial period where the council makes decisions as described above, we will shift to the standard Smogon suspect process. During the time where bans will come directly from the council, we will avoid borderline cases. To help enforce this, any council ban will require a supermajority in the early stages. This lets us have a healthy suspect process after the early metagame; and, most importantly, this policy allows you, the community, to tier elements that are not blatantly broken.​

~~~~~

What are your thoughts?
How do you think these new things will fit into the meta?
What is getting the banhammer first? :D
The new mega evolution policy seems good as it allows types like Dragon to have access to Mega Altaria and for Fire to have Charizard X. Gen 7 monotype will be exciting to mess with the old megas and pokemon released. Gen 7 HYPE
 
#46
Looking forward to this new SuMo (We're calling that? Really lol?) meta. Though, I feel like Damp/Smooth rock, Mega Blaziken, Slowbronite, Genesect, and Greninja may catch the early ban hammer when Sun & Moon are officially released.

Though, I do want to use Ash-Greninja competitively a bit before it gets banned.
 
#48
I am so hype with these changes to the Meta, I understand somethings our going to be broken but the system they implemented to remove these broken pokemons will come in sooner or later but for now lets enjoy boys :]
 
#49
Unbanned: Aegislash, Altarianite, Blaziken(-mega), Charizardite X, Damp Rock, Genesect, Greninja, Metagrossite, Sablenite, Slowbronite, Smooth Rock.

Remains Banned:
Darkrai, Deoxys(-Attack), Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Lucarionite, Mawilite, Talonflame.
You forgot Shaymin-S :)

But seriously though, I am really excited (guess we all are lol) to see what's coming for this generation. Significant changes applied mostly to Electric and Ghost, but I am willing to see more and more pokemon getting released and benefiting several other types as well.

About the ban policy, I have an idea of what is going to get banned (or stay unbanned), right away. For example, I believe Aegislash and Genesect will most likely stay banned due to their amazing capabilities on Steel teams, especially considering we are keeping the tiering philosophy. However, I am looking forward to see how the community will behave towards the discussion of Mega-Sableye (New fairy options might be a reason to stay since its going to have a harder time in the metagame), Mega Charizard-X (allowed only on Fire due to the new mega evolution rule ), Mega-Altaria (allowed only on Dragon, and new fairy options might make it easier to handle this threat we all know), as well as Mega-Slowbro (can be worn down with residual damage and taunt, and with the added diversity it might make easier to more types handle it more comfortably). There is a good chance most of them (or all) will stay, but I might be wrong.

For now, these are my insights about Gen 7. I intend to be more active on this discussion as more of SuMo gets released, especially when it is related about Grass types.
 
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#50
Very excited for the new generation, and I am glad that the council is experimenting with some unbans and appreciating the community.
That being said, I'm not sure how I feel about the same type clause. In my opinion, changing to a completely different type for megas is what makes it so valuable in monotype. This makes the game more interesting and not so match-up skewed. I don't know if this clause is just a way for there to be certain type bans, but I don't think it will be worth it. Although it only affects 4 pokemon, altaria, aggron, gyarados and charx. Altaria mega and charx are banned anyway, aggron is something that rock types need, and gyarados on flying is great but not OP. Personally i think we should wait before making this a clause.
 
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