Ghost of a Forum Mod & PS Room Owner
Lol I was close-minded back then wasn't I. Oh well, I'm glad I came around because I believe the change to our mega evolution policy is better on multiple levels.Yeah, wow. Gen 7 is going to be quite the show. It hasn't even officially begun yet, but we've already seen major, but welcome shifts in tiering philosophy, something which was unthinkable before!
Funny how it worked out like that, but aside from that, the advent of some of these Pokemon seems like it's going to invert the match up for many types, or at the least, equalize it in some form.
On a different note, I wanted to see if anyone else would like to play the devil's advocate with me.
A lot of the talk surrounding it says that it should be banned, and with 181 Atk and 109 speed, it's easy to assume so. To attempt to balance it out, though, its move pool is lacking high power. Next to Giga Impact, its strongest move is STAB Leaf Blade. Its arsenal consists of Sacred Sword (90 BP), X-Scissor (80 BP), Leaf Blade (80 BP), Psycho Cut (70 BP), Night Slash (BP), Smart Strike (70 BP). High attack, but 'weak' moves. I've put together some calcs to demonstrate its effect on the meta vs some walls and various Pokemon along with some of my thoughts against other types. I decided to go with a classic LO set with a jolly nature.
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 330-393 (83.7 - 99.7%) - hate Slowbro lol
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 257-304 (92.4 - 109.3%) - could use EVs
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Night Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 147-173 (38.3 - 45.1%) - huh
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 199-235 (61.6 - 72.7%) - after rocks (multiscale removed)
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Mandibuzz: 138-164 (32.7 - 38.9)
Pretty much destroys the other Dark types though.
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 335-398 (85 - 101%) - Flamethrower
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 265-312 (68.6 - 80.8%) - Twave but scarf fighting will be annoying anyway
Ground is going to have a tough time against Kartana, but as a Grass Pokemon, that's to be expected.
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 346-408 (82.3 - 97.1%)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 402-473 (126 - 148.2%) - beast boost
Water should be having a tough time too, but again, Grass type.
Dragon should be relatively fine.
Steel should also be fine with Skarmory and Mega Scizor as walls.
Grass, against the right moveset, will have trouble, making it important to play well with HP Fire Serp and Breloom.
Poison could be swept with SD + Psycho Cut + Smart Strike. Focus Blast Gengar is key or maybe scarf Nidoking? Salazzle will also roast it up.
Normal, Rock, and Ice are going to be rolled over from STAB + SSword.
Electric, Bug, Fire, and Ghost should be well off with Ghost being a questionable call, but with Gengar, Marshadow, Chandelure, and Sableye, I think it'll be fine.
After reading that, do you think Kartana has a place in the metagame or did it just serve to strengthen your reservations about it?
To me, Beast Boost is the deal breaker. I would have said this was fine (call me crazy), but Beast Boost will probably push this over the edge. I wanna see it actually play out first though.
Alolan Muk does get Pursuit as an egg move. I'll be using it over Drapion any day. Skuntank will have a niche as a Defog mon and Sucker Punch user, but A-Muk will be the star for sure.Since I only care about Poison teams, here is my take on the new poison mons and their impact on the type:
- Alolan Muk (poison/dark): 105/105/75/65/100/50
---- This will be the poison/dark of choice at least at first; it is bulky while also packing a good punch. Drapion/Skuntank are both faster than this thing and can boast some good things over it (both have access to Pursuit, with Skuntank having worse stats but a better movepool in Sucker Punch and Defog) but A-Muk's hidden ability Power of Alchemy allows it to copy the ability of a defeated foe which could lead to interesting situations. Too bad it doesn't get Pursuit/Sucker Punch... Definitely worth messing around with; its Curse set looks especially dangerous:
A-Muk @ Black Sludge
252 Atk/Def, 6 SpDf
Power of Alchemy
Poison Jab/Gunk Shot
Coverage of choice (Rock Slide, Brick Break, Explosion, etc.)
- Toxapex (poison/water): 50/63/152/53/142/35
---- This looks like a more wallish Tentacruel; its base stat spread is reminiscent of Ferrothorn, and its HA of Regenerator makes this a pain in the ass to kill. The set on my mind, however, will be:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge / Poison Barb (for damage boost)
Ability: Merciless (if enemy is poisoned, all attacks will crit)
Baneful Bunker (works like Protect but will poison any enemy who attacks w/ a contact move)
Venoshock (for double damage + crit after poisoning)
- Salazzle (poison/fire): 68/64/60/111/60/117
---- Faster but less powerful than Gengar on the special side. Fire-typing will help vs Scizor, but there's not much this thing can reliably switch in on. 4x weakness to ground also sucks, and its special coverage is limited to poison/fire/dragon moves with hidden power. I honestly wish this thing had a more defensive base stat spread so that we could abuse its ability Corrosion, which lets it poison steel/poison types....
- UB-01 AKA Nihilego (rock/poison): 109/53/47/127/131/103
---- Now this is a special attacker! Its ability Beast Boost will boost the stat that is the most proficient (not sure if this is off of base stats or actual stats, but if it is for actual, its speed can be tweaked to be a couple points above its special attack w/ nature and EVs so that it works like a "speed-Moxie")... terrifying, to say the least.
Also, look at this things's movepool: Power Gem (Yes!), Sludge Wave, Thunder(bolt), Charge Beam (for boosting), Dazzling Gleam, Psychic, Stealth Rock, T-Wave... yes, it is quad-weak to ground (and will get destroyed by Bullet Punch or Aqua Jet), but it's almost a moot point if it can nab a speed boost w/ its ability...
Gengar lost Levitate! Still useful, but definitely not S-rank worthy, especially in light of UB-01 (who can equip an Air Balloon which will help it stick around and activate Beast Boost)
Arbok, Ariados and Qwilfish all got a +10 BST boost (attack, special defense, and defense respectively); still mostly useless compared to their competition..
Weather wars are sorta back with Pelipper and especially Torkoal/Gigalith; all players should brace themselves for a rush of weather-abusing teams and poison is no exception.
Analysis: Poison is no longer restricted to running bulky-offense to succeed in the meta. It won't be a top tier type by any means, but there is now enough viable variety to try your hand at HO, toxic-stall, or a number of other team archetypes.