Pre-release Gen 7 Monotype Competitive Discussion

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iLlama

Nothing personal, I protect my people
I feel like I'm just reiterating this, but the whole point of Monotype is that every Pokemon on a team will be the same type. If some aspect of the game of Pokemon goes against the concept behind our entire metagame, then that aspect should be dealt with accordingly. This has already been stated, but Pokemon like Aggron and Mega Aggron, Charizard and Mega Charizard X, Gyarados and Mega Gyarados are entirely different Pokemon from each other. They each receive a different or lose a Secondary typing. Because of this, the Mega Evolution itself does not have the same Secondary typing as the previous form and therefore is no longer the same type as the Pokemon of that Secondary typing. This instantly goes against the "Same Type Clause" and the whole concept of Monotype. However, let's look at this issue with different Pokemon. Take Rotom for example. There is an original Rotom form with the Typing Electric/Ghost as well as separate forms that each hold a differing Secondary Typing. All of these forms are completely different Pokemon that are only allowed on teams with the same two types that they have. This means the alternate forms of Rotom cannot be used on teams of each other's nor the original's Secondary Typing. Now with Pokemon such as Gyarados and Mega Gyarados, the situation is nearly identical, with the exception of an item. If you take the item out and consider only the forms, these two Pokemon would belong to their own two types and not to each other's Secondary Typing. The only issue then is the item itself, which can go against Monotype when used on one of the two possible types. Thus the item is restricted to one type, or the Primary Typing. This appears as though it is a complex ban, "Gyaradosite is usable (notice how I don't use the word ban) on Water and not Flying," when in reality it is abiding by the main concept of Monotype through the "Same Type Clause." In actuality, there is no 'ban' happening as Gyaradosite technically has been infringing upon one of the clauses of Monotype for the entirety of its existence. It is an aspect of the game that has been available for illegal usage, so in reality, it is transitioning to legal usage. If anything, Monotype is simply trying to more accurately follow its own rule set.
 
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scpinion

Life > Monotype... unfortunately :)
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Let's go ahead and clarify this before it comes up: The Same Type Clause was expanded to include non-volatile, in-battle form changes.

Non-volatile means any change to your typing that remains when you switch out, as is the case with mega evolution. It does not apply to volatile type changes from things like Relic Song (Meloetta), Soak, Forecast (Castform), etc. Specifically, Relic Song isn't banned from Psychic teams and Castform is only legal on Normal teams under this rule.

The key premise is you shouldn't access form changes that don't share a type with the rest of the team for the duration of a battle; you know... because we are the Monotype metagame.
 
Those who aren't fond of the Same Type Clause expansion might find it helpful to browse this Policy Review thread, in which the philosophy of forms is discussed extensively. I personally hated the change to tiering Megas separately when it was introduced; as far as I was concerned, a Pokemon was what it was when it was switched in, and the subsequent effects of any item it happened to be holding were irrelevant. However, Antar's definition in that thread shifted my stance on the matter substantially. There is a certain elegance to tiering Pokemon based on the potential set of forms they could adopt throughout a battle. A Charizard holding something other than a Mega Stone will only ever have the form of Charizard, so it can be considered the state [Charizard]. A Charizard holding a Charizardite-X, on the other hand, could be either a Charizard or a Mega Charizard X throughout the battle, so it's best represented by the state [Charizard,Mega Charizard X]. There is no way to tell prior to a battle which of those states it will be in on any given turn, so the most sensible way to tier it is on the assumption that it could be either form at some point on any given turn, i.e. tiered as a separate entity to a Charizard that does not have a Mega Stone (or that has Charizardite-Y, which has a another different set of potential forms). An exception is made for volatile form changes, since they're basically indistinguishable from a move like Transform or stat boosting moves given that the effect is lost upon switching out. In essence, the change to the Same Type Clause is basically just defining teams as legal or illegal based on the state set for a Pokemon at teambuilder rather than the specific form that is used when first switching in, which reflects the general direction that Smogon's philosophy towards Pokemon categorisation is currently heading.
 
I am loving the change to megas. It should also free up mega Zard x hopefully to fire (they won't use it that much anyway but flying was the reason it was OP)
 
Thank god the Jangmo-o evolution line is going to end up as Dragon/Fighting or else rip Ice forever. Still, it does help Dragon against Steel significantly (although I'm not sure how Dragon struggles against Steel in general). However, Type:Null getting an evolution is ... pretty interesting especially competitively which I'll get back to later. Silvadi is the evolution of Type:Null with has some mechanics similar to Arceus where "it has a special item called “Memory” that allows it to be one of all 18 types at any one time thanks to its “AR System” ability." Now this is where it gets interesting as Type:Null was already hyped up as a pretty strong mon designed to "rival those Pokémon often spoken of in mythology" aka Legendaries. Despite it being slow, it leads to one conclusion: it's going to be super bulky and another tank for Normal users and it can hit back pretty hard too. Slap an Eviolite on that thing paired with its ability Battle Armor means no crits, its bulk can rival Porygon2 or even surpass it, and I assume it has access to a giant movepool as a Normal type.
 

Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
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Now I've had time to gather some thoughts on it I don't really agree with the concept of a minimalistic banlist going into a new generation, just because OU does it doesn't mean it's the right way. I'm thinking from the point of view that the first priority heading into a new generation should be to attempt to arrive at some semblance of a balanced metagame, and I just can't see how this is realistic with this banlist. So many of the elements that are being unbanned were such ridiculous entities in Monotype that even allowing for a slight power creep, unless something totally drastic happens in the game or to the pokemon or item itself, the likelihood is that at least 60% of them will be banned again. The kind of things I'm talking about here are Damp Rock, Aegislash on Steel, Genesect, Mega Slowbro and Greninja post-XY. Do we really think that there will be such changes that teams will be able to handle 8 turn water rain teams again??? Loads of teams getting pokemon that can bypass the triple immunity core on Steel??? Teams gaining pokemon that can break through mbro bulk??? I think a better approach would've been to enter the new generation with the new mega clause (which I like) and gen 6 banlist, assess the changes a new generation brings (particularly important if new pokemon/items need to be removed) and how the new clause affects the metagame and attempt to arrive at a balanced metagame as soon as possible. At that point, the metagame can be assessed and drops can be made strategically and seen how they individually affect the metagame and then voted through either a council or public system in a short space of time, much like the system proposed. I'm sure the proposed banlist will create a wacky and hilarious metagame, but honestly I don't see how it won't be pretty toxic for at the minimum first 6 months to a year to anyone who wants to play it competitively considering it has all the hallmarks of a metagame made centric around the prospect of broken pokemon and broken types checking each other.

Also how the fuck did all that stuff get unbanned and Mawile not lol
 
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Now I've had time to gather some thoughts on it I don't really agree with the concept of a minimalistic banlist going into a new generation, just because OU does it doesn't mean it's the right way. I'm thinking from the point of view that the first priority heading into a new generation should be to attempt to arrive at some semblance of a balanced metagame, and I just can't see how this is realistic with this banlist. So many of the elements that are being unbanned were such ridiculous entities in Monotype that even allowing for a slight power creep, unless something totally drastic happens in the game or to the pokemon or item itself, the likelihood is that at least 60% of them will be banned again. The kind of things I'm talking about here are Damp Rock, Aegislash on Steel, Genesect, Mega Slowbro and Greninja post-XY. Do we really think that there will be such changes that teams will be able to handle 8 turn water rain teams again??? Loads of teams getting pokemon that can bypass the triple immunity core on Steel??? Teams gaining pokemon that can break through mbro bulk??? I think a better approach would've been to enter the new generation with the new mega clause (which I like) and gen 6 banlist, assess the changes a new generation brings (particularly important if new pokemon/items need to be removed) and how the new clause affects the metagame and attempt to arrive at a balanced metagame as soon as possible. At that point, the metagame can be assessed and drops can be made strategically and seen how they individually affect the metagame and then voted through either a council or public system in a short space of time, much like the system proposed. I'm sure the proposed banlist will create a wacky and hilarious metagame, but honestly I don't see how it won't be pretty toxic for at the minimum first 6 months to a year to anyone who wants to play it competitively considering it has all the hallmarks of a metagame made centric around the prospect of broken pokemon and broken types checking each other.

Also how the fuck did all that stuff get unbanned and Mawile not lol
I get what you mean, but a lot of these unbans are a means of "testing" old broken elements, and see how they do in an all new metagame (with the possibility of new checks, there's a small likelyhood they'll be deemed balanced enough to remain in the metagame). However, a lot of it really is a chance to play with stuff broken in XY before they get banned, and be able to have fun and abuse them for a short time (I can assure you as well, if any of these are still broken, the council did promise to quickly take care of them within the first week, so I don't see this being anywhere close to 6 months). As for your quarrel with a minimalistic banlist, I agree with the path we are taking to be more aligned with Smogon. If you didn't notice, we are being ran on a server that is smogon-based, as well as taking advantage of utilities given to us here on Smogon's main forums (the sub forum being a huge feat regarding that). That being the case, we should be aligned with the clauses they set place to create balanced metagame (if you also noticed, there's a huge reason why VGC often proves to be over centralizing around a few primary threats). It's done us well up to this point, and I see very little reason why we should set place type-bans once again/other forms of complex bans again, knowing about what I mentioned above. It not only makes learning the metagame complicated to newer players, but it also puts us in line with Smogon, which is a huge plus in terms of gaining even more of a following!

(As for Mega Mawile, thanks to huge power it actually exceeds the 255 stat limit with its attack, which is a huge testimony to its absurd wallbreaking power, let alone with additional SD boosts)
 
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Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
I get what you mean, but a lot of these unbans are a means of "testing" old broken elements, and see how they do in an all new metagame (with the possibility of new checks, there's a small likelyhood they'll be deemed balanced enough to remain in the metagame). However, a lot of it really is a chance to play with stuff broken in XY before they get banned, and be able to have fun and abuse them for a short time (I can assure you as well, if any of these are still broken, the council did promise to quickly take care of them within the first week, so I don't see this being anywhere close to 6 months). As for your quarrel with a minimalistic banlist, I agree with the path we are taking to be more aligned with Smogon. If you didn't notice, we are being ran on a server that is smogon-based, as well as taking advantage of utilities given to us here on Smogon's main forums (the sub forum being a huge feat regarding that). That being the case, we should be aligned with the clauses they set place to create balanced metagame (if you also noticed, there's a huge reason why VGC often proves to be over centralizing around a few primary threats). It's done us well up to this point, and I see very little reason why we should set place type-bans once again/other forms of complex bans again, knowing about what I mentioned above. It not only makes learning the metagame complicated to newer players, but it also puts us in line with Smogon, which is a huge plus in terms of gaining even more of a following!

(As for Mega Mawile, thanks to huge power it actually exceeds the 255 stat limit with its attack, which is a huge testimony to its absurd wallbreaking power, let alone with additional SD boosts)
Why test things in a new metagame which will carry it's own threats? Look at ORAS, 60% of the megas that weren't banned to Ubers turned out to be massively competitively relevant, you really want to add old ridiculous threats to that workload also? Saying new checks is a fair argument but it's kind of unlikely given how strong these threats were one gen ago while something that is very very likely is that there will be new v strong mons entering the fray. Look at the limited amount of information we have regarding SuMo so far; alolan formes, ash greninja, perfect zygarde, z moves, hell even the new abilities and moves look like they have hella more offensive applications that defensive. If this decision was strong armed by Smogon then of course there's nothing that can be done about that, but that doesn't remove my right to voice my opinion that it's the wrong decision, and it also doesn't refute my logic.

Yeah thanks I totally didn't play Monotype and OU through all XY and know what Mawile does you really educated me here today and answered why Mawile stayed banned while other ridiculous stuff didn't.
 
Why test things in a new metagame which will carry it's own threats? Look at ORAS, 60% of the megas that weren't banned to Ubers turned out to be massively competitively relevant, you really want to add old ridiculous threats to that workload also? Saying new checks is a fair argument but it's kind of unlikely given how strong these threats were one gen ago while something that is very very likely is that there will be new v strong mons entering the fray. Look at the limited amount of information we have regarding SuMo so far; alolan formes, ash greninja, perfect zygarde, z moves, hell even the new abilities and moves look like they have hella more offensive applications that defensive. If this decision was strong armed by Smogon then of course there's nothing that can be done about that, but that doesn't remove my right to voice my opinion that it's the wrong decision, and it also doesn't refute my logic.

Yeah thanks I totally didn't play Monotype and OU through all XY and know what Mawile does you really educated me here today and answered why Mawile stayed banned while other ridiculous stuff didn't.
Yo no need to have an attitute, I was just trying to answer to you why things are going the way they are in terms of the coming of SUMO. I'm seriously not trying to fight with you, and you do have the right to your own opinion, but I wanted to at least tell you the logic behind what's going on to hopefully give you a different understanding behind it
 

Acast

Ghost of a Forum Mod & PS Room Owner
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
I'm willing to reconsider some of the choices we made regarding unbanning things at the start of Gen 7. I do think starting with a relatively minimal banlist and aggressively tiering the metagame for the first month or two is still the best way to go, but Freeroamer brings up a good point that a few of the Pokemon and items currently set to be unbanned will obviously be broken. Especially if we assume certain mechanics stay the same.

The two I'm most on the fence about are Aegislash and Damp Rock. No one can deny that Steel's immunity core was absurd in XY, and there's little to no chance that Gen 7 will bring new additions that will allow any given type to break it. It's just implausible. And the only thing that could make me think Damp Rock would be manageable in Gen 7 is if its mechanics are changed in some way. 8 uninterrupted turns of rain would be more than enough to label Swift Swim Water teams as overly powerful, even if we account for power and speed creep.

Those are my opinions, not the views of the entire council. However, we are planning on discussing how we'll handle it right up until the very end of Gen 6, so there's a chance the plan will change within that time. We're open to differing opinions, so please feel free to keep discussing the upcoming metagame and what we should do going forward.
 
I don't really have the energy to say much about it right now, but from the preview tournaments I've taken part in, here's my current viewpoint. Aegislash is still broken on steel. Mega Metagross is as good as it's ever been, and all types besides a few of the top have some sort of large issue with it. Blaziken's effectiveness is highly matchup based, but the types it handles almost can't fight back at all. Genesect is a largely annoying pivot, but so far hasn't proven to be broken in its own respect, probably because I haven't had enough time with it. I haven't seen a single mega slowbro yet, and metagame shifts have led to types overall being much better prepared to deal with it. Does that make it worth leaving unbanned? I'm really not sure. Mega Altaria does what it's always done, destroys some neutral matchups, while not really helping too much against the bad ones. I don't have enough experience to speak for whether it should be kept or banned, along with any of the other mons I didn't mention. It's also always worth remembering that this is a new generation with a considerable amount of new Pokemon. You never know what will change going from one to the next.
P. S: ban damp and smooth rock
 

Acast

Ghost of a Forum Mod & PS Room Owner
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Please keep in mind that these "preview" tournaments are more for fun than anything else. scpinion can correct me if I'm wrong, but they really are just intended to be silly and nothing more.

I don't intend to look at results from these tournaments as legitimate arguments for keeping or banning anything. We need to see what the unbans look like in a metagame that includes all the new Gen 7 pokemon before we can make any real decisions.
 
I like the changes introduced by scp. I like this idea, it will be good to see Charizard X return to Fire as well as Altaria to Dragon and i think it will make the tier more balanced and versatile. I dont know how i feel about the damp rock and smooth rock being unbanned but i guess there will be changes in the entire metagame so giving them a chance is the right thing to do. The one thing im pretty sure will immidiately get banned and will be problematic is Mega-Metagross. Its wide coverage and raw power make it too much of a threat for monotype and i dont think there will be enough mons introduced so that enough types will be able to adjust to it, of course there is the Z-move factor so it would be wise to wait and see the new gen mechanics before having an actual opinion so this is still a speculation :) I have high hopes for Gen 7 Monotype and i think that the changes introduced by the council are on spot. I hope that mono can be an official tier in the next Gen so that playing it will actually matter more than just having fun and will recieve more attention and why not, being a tier that is being played on the big smogon tournaments.
 

iLlama

Nothing personal, I protect my people

Could we all take a moment to appreciate the fact that Alolan Muk basically looks like the Bubblegum Ice Cream from your childhood? On a serious note, we're getting another Dark/Poison Pokemon which might be a good thing. Really stressing the might because I don't know what changes this Alolan form will bring. I am all for Coil + Sucker.
 
(I would say the unbans and mega exclusives might be better for the ladder discussion but that's just me). ;;

On a side note, what are everybody's thoughts on the news that is just released?


Kommo-o


Okay, I admit, I was totally wrong this would be Dragon / Steel. I got my hopes up too high and that came crashing down with the leaks on serebii. I cry my eyes out for a couple of minutes. I guess it's okay because Hakamo-o and Kommo-o have a unique Dragon / Fighting typing. The first that we ever have in Pokemon history.
  • Even though Kommo-o is Dragon / Fighting and doesn't exactly strengthen the Dragon vs Fairy matchup, it's still able to perform other roles well.
  • Can increase their matchup vs Dark especially against Ice, Normal, and Steel. I know how Dragon struggles against these three and my god does Mega Scizor pose a huge threat towards them after a Swords Dance boost while Stealth Rock is on the field (because I almost swept someone in Mono Seasonals before they forfeit).
  • Soundproof can be a great free switch against those that try to utilize sound-based moves such as Bug Buzz, Hyper Voice, and Boomburst (naming only the more important ones here. Especially Fairy- and Ice-types that tend to abuse Pixilate and Refrigerate. Would like to say it'll be even more trouble for those that are Choice locked. Still worried about this because opposing Pokemon can just predict the switch and go for Moonblast, Dazzling Gleam, Ice Beam, etc.
  • Bulletproof, I think would be used more because it nullifies Focus Blast, Gyro Ball, Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball, Aura Sphere, and I guess Energy Ball / Seed Bomb (not that it really matters because Dragon-types resist it but then again, it would be good from keeping your teammates from taking damage. But I just don't see who would use those two moves on them).
  • Reminds me of the word Komodo dragon (curse you)
  • I guess I like its design too (please don't let this fool you. It's not a shiny just c/p from Deviant Art). Kind of makes me think of some ancient dragon or urban legend.
  • I'm positive that Kommo-o will be able to replace...I suppose Dragonite (because you know....uhhh Fighting STAB over Fire Punch for Steel-types I guess? I don't really use Dragon, I forget they're even a type at times because I rarely fight against them).
  • Kommo-o looks like it could be a potential Dragon Dance user. I would hope so. But I think it can be either physical or special orientated because I saw in the trailer a new move it did that was super effective on Dragonite and Garchomp.
  • Resistance to Stealth Rock and Rock moves in general.
  • I'd say the only problem I see is, it kind of appears to not be that fast.
  • Another issue is another Pokemon for Psychic to crap on so I'd make sure that you carry Hydreigon on your team for any psychic attacks.
  • Another Pokemon for Fairy to take a crap on 4x weakness whatever.
  • Skarmory <3 will just laugh at it if it's all physical.



Silvally

EH?



Uh...I didn't know what to make of this because its design is so weird because it has a trait for a variety of...I guess animals and robots? Mechanical arms, fishy fishy tail, purple body, gray fur, a helmet....okay...But who cares! More Normal-types for me to utilize!

And then again: The reason is that Type: Null was constructed to synthesize the strengths of various Pokémon, enabling it to adapt to any situation.
It did make me conclude that we would get some type of Pokemon that is able to change its own type but I didn't know how that would come to be until we received this Pokemon. I figured we might get an item to change its forme or...something that would involve its type being changed. I mean, come on now it was kind of obvious.

Anyway, I was right about it being able to change its type but I was incorrect about how it would be done: Evolving. So that's where Silvally comes in. Again, it looks like a freaking beast / fish / machine mixed together.
  • It reminds me of Yu-Gi-Oh....
  • Once released from that heavy mask, the Pokémon’s speed increases substantially. With that being said, this Pokemon may be very fast. I'm thinking 110+ base Speed stat.
  • RKS System allows it to change its typing in correspond to the item it's holding. With that in mind, it can be used on any type.
  • Multi-Attack acts just like Arceus Judgement with the type changing, but I think it's a more physical attack.
  • I would assume it'll have a huge movepool given that it has this ability. Just like how Arceus has Multitype. However, I think its movepool might be a bit smaller.
  • Some problems I have with it is it might be somehow suspected and even banned from Monotype given its stats and movepool.
  • It's rivaled to that "spoken of legends" (Thanks Acast for bringing that up because it is indeed a good guess).



Ribombee

Okay, I and many of us knew that Cutiefly was going to evolve but I figured it would be something much more intimidating. Ugh...how am I suppose to resist something so adorable such as this thing? Oh right, I'm not a fan of bug types so its typing kind of makes me turn away from it.
  • Its Fairy typing strengthens Bug matchup against Dragon, Fighting, and Dark-types.
  • It's super duper cute with its scarf and wings and purtty eyes.
  • Some concerns here: That's all there is that's positive about Ribombee.
  • Bug can still handle Dark-types anyway and are a close match up to Fighting (I guess Ribombee can help against Heracross and Terrakion that tend to carry Stone Edge but even I think it won't even outspeed Terrakion).
  • I don't think it'll be bulky either. Maybe special defensively but not physically defensive.
  • Just that many Bug-types are still going to be more viable than this little critter.
  • Let's not forget, it's abilities are useless with Shield Dust being the only thing useful on it. Hope it gets a good Hidden Ability.



Tsareena

I just didn't expect Bonusweet to evolve into this. I can't even make out what Tsareena is...a food dancer? I expected its evolutions to look more...foodish. Based on the description, I expected Tsareena to be a Grass / Fighting type but whatever, oh well. There you go Juleo, another Grass-type for you to "possibly" abuse (probably not).
  • Queenly Majesty is another ability that prevents priority from other Pokemon. Why make two of the same abilities? It would make a lot more sense to just give it Dazzling instead of a different name with the same ability.
  • It might be a more physical attacker because it was shown to have Trop Kick, which lowers its target's Attack stat.
  • It might get Swords Dance and it seems to be kind of fast as well.
  • Some concerns I have for Tsareena: Very annoyed it gets Leaf Guard because that ability is useless without the support of sunlight.
  • It's not a Grass- and Fighting-type which also annoys me because that'll probably help with a couple of matchups as well (Then again we have Virizion so...).
  • I just don't see much competitive use from it and I hope it also gets a helpful Hidden Ability.


Alolan Muk


Congratulations Dream Eater Gengar, you get a disgusting slop of melted ice cream mixed with sewer water with marshmallows to top it off that is another Dark-type! Seriously GameFreak, stop giving Alolan formes Dark-type and introduce Gen 7 Pokemon with a Dark-type please. Okay...it's gross looking. It kind of reminds me of Super Mario Sunshine if you ever played it on GameCube with that goop stuff you have to clean up.
  • It still keeps its Poison typing which is nice against Fairy-types for Dark.
  • It can be a helpful asset for Mono Poison against Psychic-types as well because of its Dark typing.
  • Gluttony is the "new" ability it gets and I think it might be able to use that. Who knows.
  • It also keeps Poison Touch which can come in handy in trying to poison the opposing Pokemon so it makes me come to conclusion that it will be physical.
  • Some things that concern me: It'll still be weak to Ground-types like always.
  • Scolipede and Drapion will probably still do a better job in checking Psychic-types.
  • Hoopa-U has Gunk Shot for Fairy-types and I have no idea who Alolan Muk can possibly replace on Monotype Dark.



Passimian

Hey, a rugby monkey! It looks so cute and probably feisty. Well...I knew it would be a Fighting-type all because of rugby. I was hoping for a soccer monkey because it's such an awesome sport but oh well. But, I suppose we have to get one or two Pokemon that are more doubles orientated. We have a Plusle and Minun (they're fun to use In-Game in Battle Frontier and Battle Subway), why not two monkeys now?
  • It has a pure Fighting typing.
  • It's great for teamwork and it'll be more for double battles.
  • Who am I kidding? That's all I can come up with it.
  • My concerns: My Fighting-types are going to outclass it. No questions asked.
  • Its ability is more towards double battles, which makes it pretty useless single battle.


Oranguru

User: (Inserts harambe meme here)

Stop, like no. It's not even a gorilla. It's a guru + orangutan mixed together....Oranguru is on the same level as Passimian and I don't see much competitive use from it either.
  • Another Pokemon with a Normal / Psychic typing.
  • Another way for Normal-types to check Fighting instead of all the pressure going to Meloetta and Staraptor most of the time.
  • Some concerns: Its abilities are useless as well.
  • Meloetta with Serene Grace clearly outclasses it.
  • Maybe it can be used for Monotype UU (whenever Meloetta gets banned from that format) because I don't even see it able to replace any Pokemon on Normal teams.

That concludes more of Misaka Mikoto's thoughts stay tuned!

Until next time!
 
Ash Greninja is scary. Water Shuriken becomes special (although we don't know how much stronger it gets after Battle Bond), those stats are reaching Hoopa-U territory (if not scarier since it can still hold an item), and ... that speed. On the bright side, it won't be a thing in regular monotype matches being sent to the realm of Ubers and beyond immediately. This thing is going to wreak havoc in the 1st 2 weeks Greninja gets unbanned. That is all.
Ash Greninja.png
 

dusk raimon

Banned deucer.
Ash Greninja is scary. Water Shuriken becomes special (although we don't know how much stronger it gets after Battle Bond), those stats are reaching Hoopa-U territory (if not scarier since it can still hold an item), and ... that speed. On the bright side, it won't be a thing in regular monotype matches being sent to the realm of Ubers and beyond immediately. This thing is going to wreak havoc in the 1st 2 weeks Greninja gets unbanned. That is all.
View attachment 71780
but it takes a kill before it can switch forms,and assuming it works like other abilities of such a nature, if it switches in and out it will lose those form changes and need to get a kill again, and without protean it will be much harder for it to keep switching in and out and effectively getting kills. If greninja gets pursuit in gen 7 though that would be a really helpful move for ash greninja, aka greninja with battle bond, as it can outspeed and trap weakened threats to get its battle bond ability to activate.
 

Confluxx [Old]

Banned deucer.
Ash-Greninja is capped into a Hardy nature which is neutral so that hinders it pretty badly, probably to the point where regular Greninja is better.

Really cool to see Ground get some cool additions such as Alolan Golem and Alolan Dugtrio.


Hopefully these are really good in competitive because they look pretty fresh.

On a much more important note, the other three "Tapu Koko" looking Pokemon were revealed. Not sure what they're types are but I believe they're the same as the Oricorio formes.

This is huge because Ghost / Fairy and Fire / Fairy would help out their respective teams a ton in dealing with Dark-types in Ghost's case and Dragon-types in Fire's. Psychic doesn't need this because it already has Gardevoir, but it's still pretty cool.

Salandit did get an evolution which is going to be great for Poison-type teams to threaten Steel.

Whimpod's evolution also looks pretty sick, this thing looks like it would be usable in competitive.

No info about this Pokemon's typing but I'm getting a Ghost vibe with maybe Water or Steel as its secondary typing because it is an anchor. I really like the design and the fact that it's most likely a Ghost-type. Hopefully it's going to be useful on Ghost-type teams because I really wanna use this in Monotype.

This thing is apparently last in the Pokedex so it's most likely going to be the base 100 stats across the board that each generation has. Looking like Ghost / Psychic in my opinion.

The other stuff that got leaked is pretty amazing as well but no point in discussing it here since typings are unknown.
 
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Since I only care about poisons, here is my take on Gen7 (SPOILERS):

- Salandit2 will probably be on most poison teams to help w/ the steel matchup (either by roasting w/ fire attacks, or poisoning them if it keeps its corrosion ability). Otherwise, depending on its stats it may not be as vital in other matchups, since Tentacruel already resists fire/ice/steel (fire typing otherwise helps against grass/fairy/bug which poison doesn't care about)
- Not enough is known about Alolan Muk, but if it gets some good dark moves and tankier stats I see it easily replacing Skuntank / Drapion
- Hopefully one of the Ultra Beasts is a poison type; most other types get some sort of legendary as it is now..

Regarding the policy and unbanning, I do like all of it but here is my opinion if you care:

- Darkrai, Deoxys(-Attack), Gengarite, Lucarionite, Mawilite can all stay banned, barring some radical changes in game mechanics (sleep, shadow tag, etc.) that aren't known yet..
- Talonflame can probably be unbanned for at least a week depending on what else is discovered, as Tsareena (new grass type) is immune to priority through its new ability, and other grass/bug/fighting types may get either Dazzling or Queenly Majesty to block priority Brave Birds...
- Mega-Kang IMO shouldn't be auto-banned, since Parental Bond is now confirmed for the 2nd hit to do 1/4 extra damage (rather than 1/2) and we presumably have Mega-Lopunny which is way more dangerous. It will also be interesting figuring this thing out again, as seismic toss is transfer-only and power-up-punch cannot be learned by it in Gen7 (the TM was removed)..

Also, are we doing Alola pokedex only similar to early RSE, or including all 800+ pokemon at once (including non-alola forms mixed w/ alola forms)?
 
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Confluxx [Old]

Banned deucer.

So much for Ghost / Fairy and Fire / Fairy Tapu guardians...

The final stage starter typings are pretty lit though. If it has good coverage, Decidueye could be very solid since its signature move traps the opponent and prevents it from doubling. According to the description on the Pokemon site it's incredibly fast so this is pretty cool for Ghost. I don't know if the other starters are gonna be worth running on either type, it's gonna depend on their hidden abilities or stats.
 
For mega evolutions this means both the base and mega forms must share a type with the rest of the team.
For mega evolutions that don't share a type with the team I can believe that the opportunity cost plus the BST gain far outweighs the penalty of being locked into an item. Was any consideration given to the reverse approach i.e. you can bring a Pokémon as long as the mega stone evolves it into the correct type; you can decide not to mega evolve it but then you lose out on the BST gain and you've effectively wasted an item slot?
 
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