Project Uber: Leads

With max Attack Scizor, you have to have a second Steel-type.

I don't see what that Celebi set is doing that Mew isn't - the water resist is nice, but in return Forry sets up all over you, you can't Taunt the likes of Groudon and you don't get to Explode. Mew does fine against slow Ogre anyway and Celebi doesn't beat Choice ones - both beat Groudon.

Celebi advantages:
-Option to get SR up and die vs. Kyogre / 2HKO slow variants and survive (while not getting SR up)
-Gets SR up and doesn't die vs. Groudon.

Mew advantages:
-Taunt lets it stop Groudon from setting up Stealth Rock and prevents Forretress from shitting all over you.
-Not weak to Fire Blast so beats Sashed Ray (iirc DM doesn't 2HKO) and makes LO ones drop their SpA.
-Explosion lets you smash through slower leads that only 2HKO, like Ogre / Groudon, and still survive - plus gives you more midgame utility.
-Stronger U-Turn because Adamant.

Oh, and I run enough speed to outrun RP Groudon and Dialga that do the same.
Kyogre 2HKOs both celebi and mew regardless. My celebi set uses the EVs just to kill deo-s after a Max + atk CB scizor. I'm not saying this set is better than mew, I'm just saying this has notable advantages. HP fire/ice could be used, of course over t-wave to deal with forry/quaza. Besides, being able to defeat kyogre and groudon leads is quite important.
You essentially have to decide what's preferable.

Celebi used Grass Knot!
Kyogre used Ice Beam!

Celebi used Grass Knot!
Kyogre fainted!


Mew used Stealth Rock!
Kyogre used Surf!

Mew used Explosion!
Kyogre fainted.
Mew fainted.
This is an odd choice scarf set I posted on undiscovered movesets-

*Tested minimally- most matchup descriptions are theoretical*

Deoxys-A @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 atk/ 252 sp. atk/ 4 spe
Grass Knot/ Superpower/ Trick/ Pursuit
I use this spread commonly:
Choice Scarf
4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Low Kick

This destroys most leads. If Deoxys (S/A) sets up, Pursuit it on the switch for the KO! Darkrai and Dialga have a high chance of OHKO with Low Kick, and deals massive damage to Kyogre and Groudon, while ESpeed takes out the Tricked Pokemon who dare revenge kill it if they took a Pursuit. Low Kick is used over Superpower because lowering Attack on this set is quite bad.

This set loses to all Giratina (O) leads, so a Steel type works well with it, like Forretres, who cleans up entry hazards created by the opposing leads.

This leads set works very nicely and I love killing all of the people with Deoxys-S with it.
How does the set do any better than the standard one? The standard one can beat deo-s even better. You are at a risk of extremespeed from deoxys-s.


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Lucario (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Payback
- Ice Punch

Lucario is a pretty effective antilead, this way.
Against Deoxys forms, it just Payback them to oblivion + extremespeed. It the foe Deoxys chooses to Superpower + Extremespeed me, then there are no rocks on the field ; a good point.
If they SR / Spikes, they'll setup only one layer and they're screwed.
Against Rayquaza, IcePunch is an OHKO.
Groudon 'support" is 3HKOd by Close Combat, so I finish with 1 HP Luke and SR on the field.
Dialga is 2HKOd by Close Combat x2 for bulkier versions, and by Close Combat + Extremespeed for +Speed Versions. I either have no rocks on the field or Rocks but Sashed Luke.
Tyranitar is destroyed by Closecombat and can't afford to kill me because I'm resistant to SS.

Later game :
It also speed-tie with 90 base Mons, namely Dialga, Kyogre, Groudon.


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we're reaching the end of 4G and I'm only trying to contribute :)
I guess there aren't many things to discover, but there are some improvements that can be done and I sincerely hope this one can help somebody, somewhere =)
I've just got an interesting set I've thought of (may need some tweaking).

Tentacruel@Focus sash/lum berry/lefties
Rapid spin
Ice beam
Toxic spikes

Since it has a surprisingly fast 100 base speed, it can get 2 layers vs tyranitar, kyogre, groudon and dialga. It can just spam payback and rapid spin on deo and can stall forry. Ice beam can kill rayquaza as well and is used as a filler. It is designed as a fast suicide lead. Being faster than qwilfish really helps as well as the ability to spin. It can also absorb toxic spikes and will get two layers on base 90s unlike forry. Thoughts?

Destiny Warrior

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Call me a bit narrow-minded, but I really think any lead should have some way to play against Deoxys-S. I don't see how this works against Deo-S, unless Payback gets boosted just by moving second(in which case I eat my words).


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Call me a bit narrow-minded, but I really think any lead should have some way to play against Deoxys-S. I don't see how this works against Deo-S, unless Payback gets boosted just by moving second(in which case I eat my words).
It does, while there's no reason why you can't just use Payback once and start spamming Rapid Spin, since any hazard would just get removed anyway.

As for the Tentacruel lead, I'd consider testing an offensive lead, something like (EDIT: Actually just use mine, it's plain better, HA):

Tentacruel @ Focus Sash / Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Rapid Spin
-Toxic Spikes

Hydro Pump 2HKOs Deoxys-S, and you can always just Rapid Spin away the hazards it sets up anyway. It also handily 2HKOs Darkrai, so if you use Lum Berry, you're getting a good hit at him, I guess (If you use Lum Berry). Ice Beam OHKOs Rayquaza the majority of the time (LO can be used if you want to guarantee it). As for leads like Groudon and Dialga, if you're using Focus Sash, you're getting up 2 cute layers of Toxic Spikes on them guaranteed, unless they use Thunder Wave and you get fully paralysed twice in a row, lol. You can always save a 1HP Tentacruel to absorb Toxic Spikes later. This set isn't really outclassed by Starmie, since you can get hazards up, as well as being able to remove Toxic Spikes without having to use Rapid Spin. Item choice: Focus Sash to get in two layers against bulkier leads, or do just survive hits in general, while Lum Berry lets you get a hit in on Darkrai (or get a layer in), while LO makes sure you OHKO Ray with Ice Beam.

So, rehash on the top leads:

Deoxys-S: Hydro Pump 2HKOs, while Rapid Spin removes hazards easily
Groudon: Set up two layers of Toxic Spikes, and use Rapid Spin to remove SR if they set it up.
Darkrai: Bail if you don't have Lum, if you do, set up Toxic Spikes (1 layer)
Shaymin-S: Depends on how many times you get flinched, but Tentacruel can afford to get flinched once and OHKO with Ice Beam. Seed Flare does 51.13% - 60.13%, you easily live. On the topic of Shaymin-S you can always switch into SubSeeders and watch them kill themselves.
Deoxys-A: Lose. Extremespeed 2HKOs easily, although you can always just set up a layer of Toxic Spikes and then switch out.
Kyogre: Set up a layer of Toxic Spikes to see what set it's running. If it's Scarfed, switch out (or let Tentacruel die and then remove their revenge killer with Wobb, or Duggy if they're using Thunder). If it's a bulky variant, set up another layer of Toxic Spikes.
Dialga: Set up two layers of Toxic Spikes
Mew: Lose, although you can just pump and then spin away rocks as they U-turn out.
Giratina-O: MASSIVE LOSE. BAIL BAIL BAIL. (Or you can set up one layer and disappear, hehehe)
Forretress: Hydro Pump it and spin away any hazards they set up.

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