QuagZard - The Ultimate Setup

[acinod]

Quagsire and BellyZard Analysis
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This strategy includes using both Quagsire's weakness to Charizard's advantage. Setting up Charizard was always difficult but now it is made easier with Quagsire. Here's the set for Quagsire:

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/122 Atk/136 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Substitute
- Encore
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Stone Edge is important to counter Gyarados and Earthquake is just for STAB. You could have Protect over Earthquake to scout they're attack if you want.
Basically switch Quagsire into a water attack or something that can't hurt it like Blissey. Use Substitute on the switch and they will most likely bring out a something with a grass attack. When they attack you will Grass Knot or Energy Ball, use Encore and as they try to attack you again, switch to Charizard who will take the attack with ease and then setup. This is the standard set for BellyZard as it is usually called:

Charizard @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake

Setup a Substitute when they switch out their Grass Type and then Belly Drum on the next turn which they will break your Substitute. Then hit hard with Fire Punch or Earthquake if they resist.

Other Options:

You could also use a Raichu in place for Quagsire since it can also counter Gyarados as well as using Substitute and Encore (faster as well). Even better, it only has one weakness which is ground, which they will definetely earthquake you with the Pokemon which they switch in (most likely Garchomp). You can encore the earthquake and then switch in Charizard which resists it and continue to setup.

 

[pika_power]

Question from a newbie, why not flare blitz instead of Fire punch? Is it because you need all your HP intact for the Belly drum and Sub?

 

[iruchii]

Question from a newbie, why not flare blitz instead of Fire punch? Is it because you need all your HP intact for the Belly drum and Sub?

After you use Sub + Belly Dum, you're with like 24% HP. One Flare Blitz will kill yourself for sure.

Also, on the Charizard, I prefer Dragon Claw over Earthquake. But both work, really. Still, this is not a new set, it's just a "setup for Bellyzard with Sub + Encore", which many other Pokémon can do. (though using Quagsire is pretty creative and may work due to his unpredictabillity)

 

[Fierce Deity]

Of course, you're a bit screwed if they just go for STAB and don't particularly care about x4 grass weak. I guess this relies on the opponent having a pokemon with grass moves which will switch out, and they decide not to set up on you.

 

[Lee]

A bit like Raizard then really?

See this thread - http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24839&highlight=Raizard

As iruchii said though, it's a little harder to see coming from Quagsire. But it's also a little harder to set up too, because EQ is much more common than a Grass attack.

 

[acinod]

You could actually use both raichu and quagsire. If they don't use a grass type move that you encore, you can use raichu and hope they will earthquake.

 

[Hans]

Looks like the same idea as my thread (someone posted link above) but with Quagsire.

I don't think it will work as well with Quagsire; grass is an inferior attacking type and it is not as common as EQ...

 

[Sir Spanky]

Double Edge is a great alternative to substitute. If you Drum first turn and they send in a bulky water, Double Edge will both often kill said Pogey when EQ wouldn't, and also take you down to the Salac region!

 

[Dragontamer]

To set up my Bellyzard, I run Taunt / Hypnosis Crobat. Its a little bit less specialized and it is still pretty useful if the opponent manages to counter Bellyzard.

I like the idea of these sets though... but if I were Garchomp, I'd use Dragon Claw over Earthquake because it'd probably kill Raichu anyway as well as prevent these kinds of tricks.

 

[Sovereign]

The flaw with bellyzard is that it can't ko many things even after that belly drum. If you run fire punch and eq, gyara will stop it. If you run fire punch and return, you are stopped by ttar. Either way, garchomp, swampert, milotic, suicune, etc etc can all take the hit and ko it.

 

[Sylver]

The flaw with bellyzard is that it can't ko many things even after that belly drum. If you run fire punch and eq, gyara will stop it. If you run fire punch and return, you are stopped by ttar. Either way, garchomp, swampert, milotic, suicune, etc etc can all take the hit and ko it.

*Sighs,* no love for Code ATALuff, I take it. Moving that extremely silly and incomprehensible statement aside, it looks like QuagZard and RaiZard are formed from the same cloth; it'll work in a pinch, although if someone encores (and in some cases, is willing to die for that encore), I think an opponent would be second-guessing him/herself at that point. Especially for Quagsire; if there are not many grass attacks, and the opponent just decides to hit with Stab'ed whatever-he/she-has-on-hand...

I honestly don't get how sacrificial encores get accepted as ideas, while a sunny day/sleep/reflect/memento Charizard setup goes down the drain... wait, I'm going into incomprehensiveness again...

I think that since Charizard has been, is, and probably will be one of those pokes that we all knew, perhaps grew up knowing, and desperately trying to see him own. Hence all the Bellyzard team attempts. It's risky, but it works when it works.

 

[TCoZ]

Stealth rock murders BellyZard almost always. I used it to my advantage, making sure my BellyZard had odd HP, so after a Belly Drum and a Stealth Rock I was left on 1HP, allowing me to have all three of Dragon Claw, Fire Punch and EQ. But this means I can only switch in on a CB EQ, but it's another option.

 

[Sylver]

Stealth rock murders BellyZard almost always. I used it to my advantage, making sure my BellyZard had odd HP, so after a Belly Drum and a Stealth Rock I was left on 1HP, allowing me to have all three of Dragon Claw, Fire Punch and EQ. But this means I can only switch in on a CB EQ, but it's another option.

That's a nice idea, but unfortunately, Ttar and Hippo defeat this type of Bellyzard, unless you managed to defeat them earlier or use a weather changer; I think that a spinner is more common and feasible, although I run both.

 

[Firestorm]

Grass moves aren't that common. I really do think Raichu's better at this. There are tons of ways of setting up Charizard, don't think we need a thread for each one though.

After you use Sub + Belly Dum, you're with like 24% HP. One Flare Blitz will kill yourself for sure.

Also, on the Charizard, I prefer Dragon Claw over Earthquake. But both work, really. Still, this is not a new set, it's just a "setup for Bellyzard with Sub + Encore", which many other Pokémon can do. (though using Quagsire is pretty creative and may work due to his unpredictabillity)

No. Dragon Claw on Bellyzard sucks.
NVE Fire Punch is 75 x 1.5 x 1.5 / 2 = 84
Dragon Claw is 80 = 80

Unless Dragon Claw is super-effective or Fire Punch is 4x resisted, Fire Punch does more damage.

 

[Rudoku]

I like the idea of these sets though... but if I were Garchomp, I'd use Dragon Claw over Earthquake because it'd probably kill Raichu anyway as well as prevent these kinds of tricks.

Then you'll run the risk of getting paralyzed by Static. Paralysis sucks for it.

 

[acinod]

Yes, quite true. After reading the RaiZard thread, I really see why Raichu is better suited with the job. But then Quagsire can serve as a suprise. They will expect a bulky swampert which most people would switch in their grass types so this strategy might work. Dragon Claw and Fire Punch will leave me stuck with Heatran and they're quite common but then Gyarados is even more common.

 

[Firestorm]

Yes, quite true. After reading the RaiZard thread, I really see why Raichu is better suited with the job. But then Quagsire can serve as a suprise. They will expect a bulky swampert which most people would switch in their grass types so this strategy might work. Dragon Claw and Fire Punch will leave me stuck with Heatran and they're quite common but then Gyarados is even more common.

I think you missed the part where Fire Punch does more than Dragon Claw and has a chance of burning Gyarados...

 

[Sylver]

acinod, the general consensus of 2 moves for sub-bellyzard is Earthquake and Fire Punch. For a short analysis of some other moves...

-Fire Punch has STAB and Blaze ability fitted in, making the base 75 Fire Punch more like 146.25 (75x1.5x1.3) as Firestorm has already noted.

-Earthquake is an OHKO on the likes of Rhyperior, Steelix, and Aggron/Bastiodon, if you ever meet them...

-Dragon Claw is only effective against the likes of Salamence, Dragonite and Garchomp, where that is an ohko. I suppose Outrage or Dragon Rush could be an option, before I checked that those were probably illegal on Bellyzard.

-Fly is Bellyzard's strongest feasible STAB attack and has merits, taking out all of the above dragons that Dragon Claw would also defeat. When replaced with Earthquake, however, it loses to Heatran and Rocks like Rhyperior. Also, when used too frequently, Fly is the easiest to predict with an immediate switch to someone who survives Fly (ie Zapdos, Rhyperior, Electivire perhaps) and attack Charizard next turn.

Probably calcs next post, or later edited in this one. The rate this is going, I think Firestorm's Butterfree deserves a Charizard setup thread...

 

[Surgo]

Blaze is a 1.3 boost, not a 1.5 boost.

 

[Peterko]

Surgo meant 1.5x not 1.3x :)

you can´t count STAB into the move power, as its place is later in the damage formula, blaze is a move base power modifier, though

 

[Sylver]

*Sighs again* edited again, and forget about the calcs I promised; they'll probably be as wrong as the above...sry guys

 

[chaotic_george]

Of course, you're a bit screwed if they just go for STAB and don't particularly care about x4 grass weak. I guess this relies on the opponent having a pokemon with grass moves which will switch out, and they decide not to set up on you.

Yeah I agree.

Lolz at your sig Fierce xD.

Isn't there anything better to set up that can use Belly Drum a bit more... effectively?

 

[Sir Spanky]

I think the 1.3 comes from the whole 33% and under for blaze to activate thing?

 

[Firestorm]

Surgo meant 1.5x not 1.3x :)

you can´t count STAB into the move power, as its place is later in the damage formula, blaze is a move base power modifier, though

Yeah I know it's different, but I just find it simpler to explain it that way and I think the difference is only a few damage points?

 

[Chompy]

wouldnt swampert be a better pokemon to use since hes the same type as quagsire but with better stats???