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Rarely Used (RU) Tier

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Honch is broken too IMO, but not as broken as Yanmega. It cant touch defensive clefable, alolohomoha, can be outplayed (by subbing to prevent sucker punch). Also, as you said, Moxie versions (the sweeping ones) cant touch aggron, steelix or magneton.

We were discussing about A SINGLE THING that checks/counters Yanmega (and Sdef Clefable still takes 40%+ from specs buzzes) and i just named a lot of things that cant be touched by honch. I agree that if you let it net 2 or 3 kills you are pretty screwed, but... we are talking about smart play, arent we?

EDIT: The problem with most of these are that they cant heal theirselves, meaning that constant pressure eventually breaks them.
 
Pombo said:
Honch is broken too IMO, but not as broken as Yanmega. It cant touch defensive clefable, alolohomoha, can be outplayed (by subbing to prevent sucker punch). Also, as you said, Moxie versions (the sweeping ones) cant touch aggron, steelix or magneton.

We were discussing about A SINGLE THING that checks/counters Yanmega (and Sdef Clefable still takes 40%+ from specs buzzes) and i just named a lot of things that cant be touched by honch. I agree that if you let it net 2 or 3 kills you are pretty screwed, but... we are talking about smart play, arent we?
Click to expand...

honch BB vs 252/252 clefable 184 - 217 (46.70% - 55.08%)

honch BB vs standard alomomola 186 - 220 (37.35% - 44.18%)

when honch gets superpower+moxie the world will end.
 
Alolo shouldnt be taking any special hits anyway, so, for RU, id switch the def EVs and make it bold. As long as its not 2HKOed, just protect => wish => protect => wish => toxic => protect => wish => ...
 
Pombo said:
Alolo shouldnt be taking any special hits anyway, so, for RU, id switch the def EVs and make it bold. As long as its not 2HKOed, just protect => wish => protect => wish => toxic => protect => wish => ...
Click to expand...

its actually already impish btw now think about this. honchkrow used substitute, what do you do then?
 
Remember that brave bird has recoil (and you got a freaking high HP) so he cant keep BBing you forever. To break just, just get to full hp and scald.

Edit: I'm not saying i dont think honch is broken. It is. But not as broken as yanmega, who is not as broken as, say, Zekrom in RU.

Edit2: why in the hell would you want it to be impish?
 
Pombo said:
Remember that brave bird has recoil (and you got a freaking high HP) so he cant keep BBing you forever. To break just, just get to full hp and scald.

Edit: I'm not saying i dont think honch is broken. It is. But not as broken as yanmega, who is not as broken as, say, Zekrom in RU.
Click to expand...


alomomola's scald doesn't break honchkrow's substitute averaging around 20 percent and what is substitute without roost. I use offensive subroost moxiekrow in ru and i think it is broken. hell i use it in OU and it still seems broken.
 
Ok, surf then. Or Waterfall, whatever. Yet, the fact that he cant touch steel pokemons mean it cant sweep by itself, as it needs more support than yanmega (who basically only needs 1 layer and spin support) makes it less broken than Yanmega.

Also, i use a sub NS BB SP honch and it works wonderfully.
 
Pombo said:
Ok, surf then. Or Waterfall, whatever. Yet, the fact that he cant touch steel pokemons mean it cant sweep by itself, as it needs more support than yanmega (who basically only needs 1 layer and spin support) makes it less broken than Yanmega.

Also, i use a sub NS BB SP honch and it works wonderfully.
Click to expand...

I use a kecleon with honchkrow just for double subroost lols(kecleon has recover) and it actually WORKS. kecleon focus punches any steels that switch in on honch while using double sucker punch allows you to kill a pokemon weakened by the other.
 
Just wanna backup everyone's views about Honchkrow, I consider it broken in RU too.

From my experience, Honchkrow and Yanmega are too strong for the tier. When Rhyperior goes, Honchkrow will have lost its main adversary while Yanmega has been discussed many times before. When those two get the boot, RU will be a much nicer place and we'll see even more diversity than now (I hope!).
 
I would probably consider it suspect but I personally wouldn't label it as out-and-out broken yet. Damage calcs indeed suggest it is broken but its relative frailty (lack of useful resistances) and awkward speed tier (the Haxorus of RU?) make it threatening but manageable for most teams.

It's in the same boat as Cresselia for me - exceptionally strong on paper but various niggling difficulties keep it from steamrolling the tier.
 
The irony is that all the broken pokemon were BL last gen with the exception of rhyperior. This metagame is really similar to gen 4 UU
 
I'm not exactly sure what this whole 'broken' thing is all about, tbh.... I ran around with a joke team with Pikachu (lol), never had problems with the big 4 (Mega, Krow, Cress, Por-Z)

If you want a serious full-out Yanmega counter, try specially defensive eviolite Golbat. You get that Quad-resist on Bug Buzz in order to absorb the Specs Tinted Lens Bug Buzzes, and has Inner Focus to prevent flinching shenanigans. It has good physically defensive typing anyways to counter physical threats anyways, so no need to invest in physical defense too heavily anyways. Roost + Brave Bird + 2 support moves works well enough (choose 2 out of taunt, whirlwind, toxic, super fang, etc.) It's a pretty good stallbreaker as well if you choose Taunt.

As for Honchkrow, it really is all about figuring out which set it's using, making sure it's MoxieKrow instead of MixKrow before sending out your Steelix, etc. It's pretty darn slow as well, so it has to rely on Sucker Punch pretty badly. If you carry a heavy offense team, Honchkrow will have hard time keeping up. If you have a defensive team, well then carry a Steel-type. It will come in handy anyways. Worst thing about Honchkrow for offensive teams is that at the very least you can drag your opponent down to a prediction battle, leaving it up to chance to a certain extent.

Porygon-Z, on the other hand, is a true juggernaut to defensive teams. I've faced Life Orb variants with Recover, and it's really hard for defensive teams to play around it. After the adaptability boost, munchie gets ROCKED. On the other hand, offensive teams walk over all Porygon-Z sets other than the scarf variant--and frail, fast offense always has troubles with scarfers. Nothing new.
 
A good way to think about what it means for something to be 'broken' is whether the whole metagame revolves around 'it' and its counters. (At least that's what I do)

Your Golbat set sounds really interesting and it could prove to be a really overlooked Pokemon since with Roost, Whirlwind, Taunt and BB it has a great disruptive moveset. But the fact that we are scratching our heads to think of counters to Yanmega pretty much proves the point. Viable counters to Yanmega are few and far between and I'm sure everyone here thinks long and hard about how to counter it (and dare I say struggles with solutions) when building a team.

As for Honchkrow: "figuring out its set" at best may lose you a Pokemon. At worst it can lose you the match. It has the same problem as Yanmega in that they happen to destroy each other's counters, the Mix set can destroy Steels while the Moxie set can become unstoppable. Again only one top tier Pokemon can safely stand up on all variants of Krow and that's Rhyperior and it is on its way out as soon as the tiers get updated. You can argue for stuff like defensive Relicanth but such a Pokemon is badly asking to be taken advantage of so arguments for a 'wonder' counter aren't always useful.

Darkrai has a 100% counter in Scarf Vital Spirit Primeape but that isn't a great argument for it to be accepted into RU...
 
Porygon-Z is on the fence between being broken and not. Bring it in on something with low Sp. Def, and you're already set up enough, and then there's Agility so you can outspeed hings like Scarfed Typhlosion and one-shot it. However, without the Agility it can and will be beaten by many pokes with a Scarf or just more than 100 base Speed. I probably won't get high enough on the ladder again if we start subject voting, but its in an "abstain on ban" region for me.
 
How do most people deal with rain teams here? Apart from Munchlax and Ferroseed, I can't think of much that can stand up to them. Gastrodon isn't nearly as good as it is in OU because of Ludicolo which is quite common on Rain teams.
 
+1 Sucker Punch from my Honch ohkoes Ludicolo.

IMO, Honch is comparable to Mence in 4th gen. It has many destructive sets, and no pokemon in the tier can switch in safely without knowing the set.
 
I haven't played RU for a while but the top 3 Mega, Honch and Cress are broken to me. Although most people now days say Cressilia isn't as broken because of the many bugs in the tier and it can be easily disposed of with trick, toxic etc...

But Once Mega and Honch are banned and other pokemon move up like Venomoth, I can see Cress possibly becoming more broken.

As for a pokemon that will replace Rhyperior when he moves up to UU, I say Carracosta as a good shot with Rock typing giving him a resist to BB and Solid Rock allowing him to take Superpower at 1.5 Super Effectiveness but he still loses to HP-grass but so did Rhyperior lol.

AS for Porygon-z, it's pretty Boarderline to me in terms of how broken it is as it hasa lot of problems switching in and relatively fragile but once MEga nad Honch are kick out of the tier we'll see how broken it really is in the tier.
 
Yanmega is way too strong in the current metagame in RU, my best way to deal with it is sending in uxie on a safe poke and T-wave and hope yanmega switches in on my uxie. Also Jolly entei outspeeds timid yanmega who can threaten to 0hko with flareblitz, though most players seem to run adamant nature over jolly :/
 
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