Pet Mod RBY CAP (CAP 3 - Competitive Learnset)

Burgundy

Burgundy

It's a critical hit! - I love Persian, I just really love Persian, it's my favorite mon to use in RBY, having another mon like it sounds like a blast to me. It is admittedly a bit of a limited scope, but I don't think that's really a dealbreaker. It might be nice to make the first RBY CAP something simple?
Break the Mold - This one is just super solid and will definitely give us something unique and fresh.
Limber but not really - Shaking up the way statuses are used in RBY could be cool, given how focal they are to strategy. Interests me more the more I think about it, could open a whole new venue of play in a less straightforward way as other concepts here.
New Friends! - I'm just a sucker for weaker mons getting a boost. This concept does seem like it'll probably be hard to manage the concept so it really fills its goal, but given how centralized the RBY metagame is some sort of counter-meta mon could be cool if it was made well. Tricky concept but I like the idea and potential.
Non-Poison Ghost - While the rest are are tailored to The Metagame, "What if GameFreak made another Ghost type that wasn't Poison in Gen 1" is like, an interesting question to me even beyond competitive implications. Of course, I also think it'd slot into the metagame in an interesting way, giving focus to a strong and underutilized type. However, Amaranth's point about potentially flipping the metagame does make me wanna put this lower, at least for now.
Un-niche - I love the idea of taking an underutilized mechanic or playstyle and making it shine, but the idea of straight-up obsoleting. something niche would make me feel guilty? In a silly way lol. I'd just feel bad for the poor mon we usurp...
Rock Paper Scissors - Pretty straightforward, but with a lot of directions it could be taken and would definitely make a noticeable impact on the meta. Seems like a safe bet and solid choice for a first RBY CAP. Doesn't excite me as much as other concepts though.
Nice Typing You Got There... - Conversion is very cool and would be fun to play around with, but I think this concept is a little too simple compared to others here.
Status Stripper - Agreeing with everyone else who placed this similarly.
 
Mova

Mova

Non-Poison Ghost
Rock Paper Scissors
Limber but not really
It's a critical hit!
Break the Mold
New Friends!
Nice Typing You Got There...
Status Stripper
Un-niche

Pretty good ideas here overall. I hope to see some of these come back as well.
 
earl

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
Rock Paper Scissors
Limber but not really
Break the Mold
Un-Niche
Non-Poison Ghost
New Friends!
Nice Typing You Got There...
Status Stripper

Status Stripper is a fun concept but sounds exceedingly hard to execute (how do you keep a paralyzed chansey in on you when there's any other number of paralyzed teammates the opponent could potentially restore? A tough balancing act). Nice Typing is much of the same deal. They feel more like concepts we'd tackle after a few simpler concepts are successfully executed.
 
Rasdanation

Rasdanation

Break the Mold
New Friends!
Rock Paper Scissors
Non-Poison Ghost
Nice Typing You Got There...
Un-niche
Limber But Not Really
It's a critical hit!
Status Stripper
 
Volk

Volk

Demonstrably alive.
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Quick vote and some thoughts on each. The order in which I am giving my thoughts is also the order of my votes.

Break the Mold: This seems to be a pretty straight-forward and interesting choice and honestly what I think most of the CAPs should strive to be. The biggest issue I have with RBY Pokemon is the level of overlap among a whole lot of them. A lot of Water-type and Flying-type Pokemon, for example, kind of just blend together and lack enough differences to make them feel distinct. Amaranth brought up Psychic as a good type to examine and I pretty much agree. I also think we could get a lot of mileage from Grass, Fire, Electric, and Rock, as these types have been pretty strictly pigeonholed to basically one archetype. Also, could we get a new Dragon-type Pokemon maybe?

Limber But Not Really: This is a pretty simple concept that can be taken in a lot of directions. I think a reasonably bulky Ghost/Ground Pokemon with middling Speed would be a good start. This seems like an interesting idea that could complicate both the lead meta and endgames if it is executed well.

New Friends!: Look, my list isn't just a copy of Amaranth's. I think this idea is best if it concentrates on elevating a pretty mediocre Pokemon, like say Moltres or Sandslash. The main drawback of this idea is I think the final product will almost certainly be like C+ Rank at best, but I still think it would be interesting. I'm a big fan of Pokemon that only fit on like one or two teams but really excel on them. It might be nice to test the waters with a non-invasive Pokemon.

Un-niche: Sure. I don't love this idea because I don't want to take the spotlight away from already mediocre niche Pokemon, but it is interesting enough, especially if we start combining the niches of lower-ranked Pokemon. Kind of wish that this came with more detail.

Nice Typing You Got There...: My primary doubt with this idea is that realistically I don't see how we won't just end up building a Porygon with stats that are actually acceptable in OU. If Conversion is going to be a viable option, I don't really see how it would work without at least one of Thunder Wave or Recover. I'm sure there is a bit more nuance to this idea, but I feel like it might quickly hit a dead end.

Non-Poison Ghost: Too bold and too broad. I need the idea to have a bit more depth before I can vote for it. I agree that we should save this for later, after we get two or three CAPs out of the way and the meta actually becomes something separate from RBY. Or just capture the idea through the Limber proposal.

It's a critical hit!: I don't find this idea terribly interesting. There are only four of these moves and one of them, Karate Chop, is more or less completely unviable. I think balancing this Pokemon will be a nightmare. If we are assuming the Pokemon is getting at least two of Crabhammer, Razor Leaf, and Slash, it is going to have pretty insane coverage, so you'll have to severely restrict its stats (which kind of defeats the purpose, aside from the fact that now you can comfortably beat Reflect and Amnesia). If it is getting just one, then I don't really see this as much of a concept. Like Persian has already pretty much covered mono-Slash decently, a fast Water-type Pokemon with Crabhammer sounds pretty ridiculous, and an offensive Grass-type Pokemon might fit better in the "Break the Mold" category.

Rock Paper Scissors: I don't think the Zapdos/Rhydon relationship needs further balancing. I think it is a really good structure as is. An additional Pokemon here risks overcentralizing matchup in determining games (and also it implies that Rhydon can take over games like Zapdos can when it gets a good matchup, which just isn't really true; I really like Rhydon and think it is better than Zapdos on the whole, but Rhydon is slow and methodical and consequently relatively easy to exploit, it really doesn't need a hard counter like Zapdos).

Status Stripper: Haze is a buggy mess and pretty uninteresting to me. I don't really see the appeal.
 
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DuoM2

DuoM2

whao
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Alright, voting is over! The winner was Rock Paper Scissors, barely edging out Break the Mold. Here's the vote count if you'd like to see, although it'll be impossible to understand unless you understand Paulluxx's explanation of how voting works, which is in the post I made that opened this voting round.

We're not done with concept yet though!
CAP 1: Concept Phase (Part 2)​

This concept still needs to be explored a bit further before we can do anything with it. While most people who backed this concept seemed to agree that the triangle would be Rhydon -> Zapdos -> CAP1 -> Rhydon, there was a bit of negative reception to that trio specifically, and it's also worth hearing the ideas of people who didn't feel too strong one way or another about this concept. Feel free to discuss this triangle or any others that deserve mention! We'll vote on which triangle to follow if needed, but can skip voting if a consensus is met.
 

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
DuoM2 said:
This concept still needs to be explored a bit further before we can do anything with it. While most people who backed this concept seemed to agree that the triangle would be Rhydon -> Zapdos -> CAP1 -> Rhydon, there was a bit of negative reception to that trio specifically, and it's also worth hearing the ideas of people who didn't feel too strong one way or another about this concept. Feel free to discuss this triangle or any others that deserve mention! We'll vote on which triangle to follow if needed, but can skip voting if a consensus is met.
Click to expand...
I think the only straightforward triangle filler would be the Rhydon -> Zapdos -> CAP1 route, any other would probably require a reach or two. I do think this concept is good but you'll need to make something that's a bit shaky towards Rhydon so to not utterly batter it out of the metagame; maybe make it have issues switching in more than a couple of times like Exeggutor. Rhydon is one of those Pokemon that can very easily be kicked out of the metagame: opinions on it are divided as-is. You'll want to be surgical with your precision.

EDIT: By making this triangle you'll also want to be careful not to accidentally give Zapdos the partner it needs against Rhydon either. I think this is somewhat unavoidable, but note that Zapdos and Rhydon don't work well together, and Rhydon and CAP1 may not either depending on how we go. This is a deceptively hard tightrope.
 
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Enigami

Enigami

is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcher
I like the idea of exploring an alternative Rock-Paper-Scissors triangle, however I'm having trouble finding any available in the context of RBY OU besides a Rhydon/Zapdos/CAP triangle. Some alternatives I can think of:

Lapras or Cloyster/Articuno/CAP - CAP would probably need to be primarily a Razor Leaf user so that it can threaten the Ice/Waters while being non-threatening to Articuno. Victreebel and Venusaur already do this, but CAP could be tailored to be Ice-neutral or even Ice-resistant so Cloyster and Lapras have to flee while Articuno's power and Razor Leaf resistance let it easily stick around to break CAP

Exeggutor/Gengar/CAP - A bit of a stretch, but once sleep is off the table, Exeggutor resists Gengar's Special coverage and pressures Gengar heavily with its own Psychic. Perhaps CAP could be a Pokemon that similarly switches into Exeggutor comfortably outside Explosion like Exeggutor does to Gengar, but with Gengar in turn comfortably dealing with CAP.

Gengar/Victreebel/CAP - It goes without saying that Victreebel is walled hard by Gengar, so maybe there could be design space for something that easily switches into and threatens Gengar while being shredded by Victreebel. I think this is hard to make work for Victreebel's benefit while avoiding Gengar simply beating CAP with Mega Drain or making Mega Drain Exeggutor the best response to CAP instead of Victreebel, but it's still an option.
 
Brambane

Brambane

protect the wetlands
is a Contributor Alumnus
The solution I think to the triangle is to give CAP1 more than one Pokemon it is weak to. Using Rhydon/Zapdos/CAP1 as an example:
-CAP1 confidently counters Rhydon
-Rhydon confidently counters Zapdos
-Zapdos and Articuno confidently counters CAP1

I used Articuno as an example not for meta relevance, but because obviously neither Zapdos or Golem want to switch into Blizzard, but Articuno doesn't want to switch into Rock Slide or Thunderbolt either. But Articuno's access point becomes CAP1, and it breaks the cycle by keeping the other two from coming in safely. You can plug any Pokemon that fits that bill in the slot. My point is to make sure that the Rhydon/Zapdos/CAP1 core (or whatever core you choose, this happens to be the lowest hanging fruit) has something that can apply pressure to more than one of them. CAP1 should complete the triangle between the three, but should not be the perfect partner to complete monstrous three-mon core.
 
gastlies

gastlies

running up that hill
is a Pre-Contributor
I like Eni's idea of something that beats Lapras/Cloyster but loses to Articuno. This will give Articuno another Pokemon it beats, while also giving it a partner to take down it's Ice-Type checks. In terms of Typing, I feel like Grass/Ice or Grass/Water are the best options. Grass STAB hits Cloyster and Lapras super effectively while being resisted by Articuno, and the Ice/Water typing means Lapras/Cloyster's Blizzards don't scare away the CAP. This might be too much of a strech, but something like a Grass/Ice Type with 50 HP and 100 Special makes it so Articuno's Blizzard 2HKOs, while Lapras/Cloyster 3HKO it. Meanwhile, the CAP's Razor Leaf 2HKOs Lapras and Cloyster, while it's STAB Blizzard has a 0.6% chance to 3HKO Articuno. Speed-Wise it should probably be in a range where it outspeeds Cloyster but is slower than Articuno.
 
DuoM2

DuoM2

whao
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
I'll go ahead and start voting a little bit early! Please vote for one of two options, either Rhydon/Zapdos/CAP1 or Cloyster/Articuno/CAP1. Voting will end in three or four days.
 
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