Tournaments RBYOMPL II Format Discussion

[Volk]

Howdy! It's been about 11 months since the first edition of RBYOMPL began, and I'm still surprised that we got that tournament running. Now I'd like to see if we can do it again. For those new, RBYOMPL is a team tournament designed to celebrate RBY's wide array of niche tiers. The purpose of this thread is discuss the format, scheduling, and tier inclusion for RBYOMPL II. Here's what I got so far.

Format
I have hopes to expand RBYOMPL to 6 teams × 8 tiers, but I'm not particularly confident that that is achievable. After some discussion, I'll put out a tier inclusion survey as I had done last year to gauge the total number of likely players and the relative support for each prospective tier. I would be overjoyed by 6 × 8, but 6 × 6 is my expectation.
I think the format of 5-week regular season → top 4 semifinals → top 2 finals worked perfectly last year, and I intend to run it again this year, even if we somehow put together 8 teams (though the regular season would be 7 weeks in that case). I think this allowed us to get a lot of games and keeping many teams alive, without letting the tournament overstay its welcome.

Schedule
Up for debate, but my assumption right now is:
One week for discussion until a tier survey is released.
One week to reply to the survey, further discussion, and the announcement of included tiers.
One week for manager signups.
Two weeks for player signups.
This has us starting the first week of the tournament right around the first week of March.

Tier Inclusion
Last year, the tier lineup was:
1v1
LC
NC97
STABmons
Stadium
SU

Here are my thoughts on these tiers and a few others.

RBY 1v1 was very popular last year and netted a lot of signups. While the tier has become less popular lately and the nature of the tier turned a few players away, I still think 1v1 has too high of numbers to exclude. I'd favor it returning, but I think it is the second-easiest to justify cutting.

RBY LC ought to return as the most active and popular OM. It'd sooner get two slots than lose the one it has. If possible, I'd like to squeeze the Sleep and Accuracy-lowering Moves Suspects in right before this tournament starts so we can get the ideal metagame for RBYOMPL II.

NC97 is somewhat controversial, but it has very dedicated fans. It also had a very successful live tour hosted by Shane late last year. It's inclusion is obvious to me.

RBY STABmons is still one of my favorite tiers so I will continue to advocate for its inclusion. It had a very competitive showing last year and I would be delighted to see it return.

Stadium OU is probably the most cuttable tier. It had the smallest playerbase by a pretty noticeable margin and a few people who showed up for it last year have since kind of lost interest. I really like Stadium OU, so cutting it would be regrettable, but to me it is obvious that it is what must go if anything is being swapped in.

RBY SU proved to be a very popular inclusion last year, seeing a lot of competitive games and metagame development. I felt like it was a fan favorite. I would like to see it return, and I believe this is the debut forum tournament after the banning of Accuracy-lowering Moves from the tier.

RBY ZU was narrowly cut last year and also failed to make it into RBYPL VI. I feel like it's kind of owed inclusion at this point. My only hesitation is that I think it, especially when SU is also already present, doesn't fit the spirit of a supposedly OM-focused tournament. I think it is completely necessary though if we want any shot at getting up to 8 tiers.

Regarding a final slot, the main choices I see are: another LC slot (possibly LC TBs or some kind of suspect slot), Tradebacks OU, Modern Generation I, and Revelationmons. I've also heard Tradebacks UU, Challenge Cup, and Draft get kicked around as ideas. Also possible is debuting a new tier like BH and just rolling with it. I think 7U is dead. While it is pretty small, I think I most favor Revelationmons as the eighth tier (original lineup + ZU), but I'm very much open to ideas here.

Please discuss. I plan to publish a tier inclusion survey in about a week, based on how any discussion here goes. Cheers!

 

[2xNoodle]

Regarding a final slot, the main choices I see are: another LC slot (possibly LC TBs or some kind of suspect slot), Tradebacks OU, Modern Generation I, and Revelationmons. I've also heard Tradebacks UU, Challenge Cup, and Draft get kicked around as ideas

One of the things I think is neat about Gen 1 is that there's different mechanics/systems in way to play between Japanese-RG/RBY/Stadium/Tradebacks. I really like the idea of OMPL allowing for inclusion of non-RBY Gen 1 formats and was happy last year to see both Japanese-RG and Stadium get represented. The thought of adding Tradebacks to the tournament sounds appealing. Personally I would prefer to see TB OU in some capacity, but as a non-player of the formats I can't say what has playerbase and what doesn't so if TB UU has interest that sounds cool.

In terms of getting enough players, would Stadium OU (or TB OU) be more viable if it was part of a triple threat slot? Like, a Bo3 with Stadium OU/TB OU/Japanese OU? I guess not because I don't see there being interest in Japanese OU.

 

[Melbelle]

all i really have to add is i think tbs should have a place. i do think it belongs more than stadium personally. think it's hard to cut out any other tier and idk if adding tbs with no tiers cut is an option.

 

[Soda_Eesti]

Spoilering my post as i do a lot of yap and its long.

Yap

For format we do 6x8. The tour was really popular last year and I feel like if we play our cards right (i.e. not including all of Tradebacks Stadium and Stadbacks or w/e.) we can fill all 8 slots with decently competitive pools. A tour like this is also the perfect chance for clickers or RBY/Tier mains to come in and try out a format they havent before, which would expand the amount of people signing up to play the slot beyond just the playerbase, which actually happened a decent amount last tour. Hell the Jinwoos were made up of a ton of people who hadnt played their tiers before and look at how far they went (Yes i know theyre SPL players shut up). 100% keep the round robin into 4 team playoffs format. I like it, and atleast its better than the Belgian.

RBY 1v1 stays. At this point i feel like its the face of OMs right behind stabmons and should not at all be cut. Last year's pool proved to be competitive and it was really fun to watch. Anyone who even insinuates that this should get cut is frankly insane and just hates non 6v6 formats.

Keep LC. I originally had a whole paragraph typed up, but as I was writing this the TL started the suspect on sleep and ALMs. Tier seemed dreadfull last year to the point I locked out. Didnt want to play it, didnt want to support my teammate, and I didnt want to watch it. Tier seemed very coinflippy. Fix these issues and it might genuinely a good tier. It also has LC players playing it so Include it. Shoe-In.

Nc97 stays. Tier is actually great. It has so much goddamn team diversity with there being so many styles you can play, going from a dedicated PP stall build, more defensive, you can build your team around setups, and hell you can load crackhead offense. This tier is something special among RBY tiers and it needs to get all the attention possible from tours like this, and like, it was included last year? It has a very active playerbase and it just held an invitational tournament a couple of months ago that a lot of the names you know, and some you may not, participated in, meaning if you dont know ball you can just go and check the results, and if you ask most people who play, theyll tell you that the better player wins an overwhelming majority of the time. Anyone who says we need to cut nc97 needs to be disregarded. The tier is not at all uncompetitive and I genuinely believe it to be one of if not the most competitive tier in all of RBY.

Stabmons is a no brainer and i have no strong opinions on it. Cut stabmons and you might as well cancel the tour.

KEEP STADIUM OU OMG. I can think of a few reasons to cut it, one of them being its an OU, but like, its SOOOO different to rby OU while giving OU players something. Its a really fun tier to play and the new mechanics gives you something fresh and unique to play. It also has an actual VR now so its easier to build teams for it than it was last year. And like, last year was somewhat competitive and the games were always hype to watch. It's also less formulaic to build for than NC97, LC, and SU, all of which are Shoe-In tiers. It should stay IMO. It being the most cuttable tier doesnt make it cuttable.

No strong feelings on SU; include it yeah.

If you want to pity ZU, sure yeah include it, but i 1) Dont feel like it fits the vibes of this tournament. and 2) Think the tier is Non-Interesting. I think we all know, even if its "technically not determined", that ZU isnt going to be making next RBYPL at this point. The players think its dreadful to play, they think its uncompetitive, and are ALREADY voicing their disdain for the meta, to the point they would rather talk about game design than the tier. I know it got cut last year from OMPL because it, atleast at the time, seemed like it was gonna make RBYPL, but that doesnt mean it should come crawling here. The playerbase, atleast from what I, someone who quit rby low tiers a bit ago, have seen, actively dislike the tier and I feel like it would be considered a goulag slot in this tournament. A tier no one wants to play and no one wants to watch. It also just doesnt fit the vbes yk; It's definitively a low tier at this point, being a part of ZUOL, ZUCL, and the like, being a part of ZU Old gen Curcuit, and being a part of RBY Grand Slam and in contention for RBYPL; none of those are traits of an OM. it is SIGNIFICANTLY more played than any other tier in this tournament, when this tournament was made to showcase some of the lesser played tiers on the big stage that is a Team Tournament. It just doesnt deserve to be here. Not because its played to little but because its played too much.

Include DNU. Yes this is 100% Biased, but people like the concept of the tier, being able to drop whatever we like, not being bound by tiering policy, etc. Hell the kickoff tournament got i think around 45 sign ups (if not exactly)? While yes the initial perception was poor, with people generally either not liking or being neutral on the Metagame, I listened to the survey results and did what I personally thought was best, which has turned the tier from Mini LC without the check mons, to an actually good tier that I'm confident is worth playing. With the ALM, Diglett, Abra, and Poliwag bans, i personally think the tier is looking to be competitive. I've been playing it a bit, asking for games in both RBY and DNUcord, and theorycrafting, i even did a long ass stream where majority of it I was yapping about DNU. From my test games, the meta is looking to be diverse yet centralized, in a similar fashion to OU, or old NU. The tier is in a really great state right now which, while could be due to relatively low number of test games, i definitely think is worth your time if we were to include it in the tournament. And while it does have overlap with LC and SU, those pools are generally deep enough to where we can pull people from it with little issues, while also having a few of its own players, and can potentially pull from the overall DNU base if added.

Include Challenge Cup actually. It has a playerbase, being in Challenge Cup Cup, and would draw in sign ups from rands playerbase as a whole. The tier is definitely interesting and fun to watch, and its even way more fun to play. It also practically GUARANTEES sign ups into the tournament, which, if they dont lock out, can be taught and converted into other slots. People in RBY around PL time were talking about how rands players make great clickers in LT slots, well look at what we've got here. 2 potentially 3 potentially 4 low tier-esque slots. If you wanna say this stand by it and prove it to me. The tier is also relatively untapped/unsupported by RBY, so i think it would help if we actually supported it atleast a little bit, and this is the perfect way to do that!

Do NOT include MG1. Im gna be so fucking real. Its dead, its tier leader has both been permabanned and quit mons, and the tier always has balancing issues. There was a small little update MONTHS ago about the MG folk like teamo and quinn trying to revive it. But absolutely nothing came of it. Lets be real here, and let the tier stay dead. It does not need reviving, especially in whats supposed to showcase actual metagames, not something no one is interested in and will never play again.

Im actually really hesitant to say we need to add Revelatiomons. The tier is relatively dead, even when compared to the very low bar that is OM activty, has a miniscule if not non-existent playerbase, and has very little if not: actually no public resources. While i believe the tier is interesting, could be fun to play/watch, and could use the development that comes along with being in OMPL, I do not believe the tier is ready for it. It has 0 momentum and has been dead in the water for months if not nearly a full year. The discord has been reduced to shitposting and talking about things that arent the tier every 3 months over a span of 2 messages. I believe if anyone tried to put any amount of effort into reviving this tier it could be great and very worthwhile, but this aint it dawg.

If and ONLY if stadium gets cut, Tradebacks needs to be its replacement. There is this certain feel and way you have to think about it that comes along with OU tiers in specifically RBY that i do not feel can be replicated elsewhere. A lot of what i said about stadium applies here, its just tradebacks is FAR less interesting than anything stadium can do, and im not sure i want to watch kisslax mirrors all season by people who dont know lax doesnt actually have to run kiss.

If for SOME reason we cant fit either stadium OR tradebacks, run JP or Stadbacks OU. Please and ty. Everything said above about tradebacks applies to these. We NEED an OU metagame both for signups and that feel.

Monotype or draft could be cool. I dont want them, and dont think they should get in AT ALL, but they could be cool, yeah. Prefer monotype HARD if we are somehow this pressed for slots but i dont mind either.

Everything else, including but not limited to 10U, 33 Valuemons, CAP, Moonside, Azure, Tradebacks Expanded, Stadium UU, Tradebacks UU, Mewbers, Twobers, Triple Threat, MOU, Metronome Battles, Monocolor, Biblemons, Tier Shift, IU, Bad 'n Boosted, Middle Cup, NFE, Shitmons, Violet, Johtomons, Jumpstarted, Pika/Petite/Poke/Prime/98/99 Cups, and Dual Arena, are all mickey options that are not to be added to this tournament. If you SOMEHOW get THAT pressed on slots, the tour needs to be canned. If you dont want to can the tournament roll a wheel or whatever. It doesnt matter what tier is chosen as theyre all equally dogwater options and will not bring in players at all.

 

[2xNoodle]

Nc97 stays. Tier is actually great. It has so much goddamn team diversity with there being so many styles you can play, going from a dedicated PP stall build, more defensive, you can build your team around setups, and hell you can load crackhead offense. This tier is something special among RBY tiers and it needs to get all the attention possible from tours like this, and like, it was included last year? It has a very active playerbase and it just held an invitational tournament a couple of months ago that a lot of the names you know, and some you may not, participated in, meaning if you dont know ball you can just go and check the results, and if you ask most people who play, theyll tell you that the better player wins an overwhelming majority of the time. Anyone who says we need to cut nc97 needs to be disregarded. The tier is not at all uncompetitive and I genuinely believe it to be one of if not the most competitive tier in all of RBY.

I think the team diversity mentioned is where a lot of the strengths of the format come from. Blizzard has a 30% freeze chance and OHKO moves exist, yes, but a lot of teambuilding can be as much building around the RNG as it is building towards the RNG. The metagame has evolved consistently since the Revival tournament of 2024, with players continuously finding ways to build towards mitigating the RNG or countering the teams built to do that. If you look at how the qualifiers and main event went for the live tour that Volk mentions in the OP I don't think you can really say that it's a high variance format due to evasion and OHKO moves existing. The players that did well did well because they built teams that could withstand a live tour environment well and because they piloted those teams well. So long as NC97 would continue to be a Bo3 format I think there shouldn't be concerns with its competitive integrity versus other formats.

Pika/Petite/Poke/Prime/98/99 Cups, and Dual Arena, are all mickey options that are not to be added to this tournament

I mean, if people really did hate Japanese mechanics that much I think that Yellow Poke Cup or Stadium Poke Cup could work instead. I think there's a good chance a fair number of players would switch over to it. Although I do worry that the Japanese players wouldn't. And we shouldn't replace NC97, Poke Cup would have a far less developed meta and would be less competitive and probably less international, just saying that if this was a process where we early on eliminated NC97 we potentially could pivot to either version of Poke Cup. But that's not how this process works anyways. So maybe I'm just saying something to say that if people don't like NC97 because of mechanics maybe they should join the Nintendo formats community and try out 6-3 on RBY or Stadium mechanics.

 

[gastlies]

quick thoughts, tl;dr cut Stadium for ZU

8x6 is a little risky, honestly I wasn't too big a fan of the 10x8 format for RBYPL and it shows how having too big of a tour can be detrimental, so I'd err on the side of caution and stick with 6x6

Regarding the tiers, ZU should be given a guaranteed slot. It is not in RBYPL and will never be in RBYPL (we really really do not have the playerbase for it and the lowtiers are already stretched thin even without ZU). It should defnitely be featured somewhere in a RBY Forum team tour, so if it doesn't make RBYPL it should be here. One of the main arguments against ZU's inclusion last year was that it would be in RBYPL, then that turned out to not be the case at all.

In terms of what to cut, Stadium was not well-received by the playerbase, so I agree with Volk that it's the easiest cut. The rest of the tiers were all well-received. I'm neutral on Tradebacks OU but would be against its inclusion if it takes a spot from ZU.

 

[LHF]

this will not be a polished post as its been a long day but I hope my thoughts are worthwhile nonetheless

RBY 1v1 is a deeply active metagame with a lot of resources and it's easy for people to plug and play into while learning along the way as long as they have one or two competent hands on their team. Yes I am biased as I enjoy 1v1 but when you think of what a "Other Metagame" offers you would think about how 1v1 plays, it's nothing like 6v6. RBY 1v1 also doesnt have much inclusion in the 1v1 tour schedule this year which is even more of a reason to include it

RBY ZU has never needed a slot more than it has right now due to the fact it's a fresh new tier and it would be great for its development to get multiple weeks of playing and building. I understand Volk's mixed feelings about two 6v6 formats(yes I will be pushing for SU later in this post) but RBY ZU was in a do or die position last year with RBYPL and it's not going to happen. RBY ZU is not "owed" inclusion based on this, but I am basing my push for it based on the necessity of pushing RBY ZU development forward

NC97 is not my personal cup of tea but it has a vibrant, if small community. Cutting it would not be a good idea

MG1 is an interesting concept on the surface but when you think about RBY you think of the original 151 and so the spirit of what an RBY OM is sort of gets muddied by this. That's not counting the number of various building issues that go into it as well but I digress, just my opinion

The RBY community has been one of the best in terms of supporting SU's grassroots efforts, its inclusion last year was a good decision and one I hope to see repeated this year

STABmons is really well liked and I don't see a reason to cut it but I'd get it if something other than Stadium had to go. I do not support it though

As for proposed additions to the format, TBs and JP OU are entirely dependent on how many people are willing to show up and show out for the tier. I'd push ZU over this but this is because of what I wrote above

If I had to see anything cut I would say eliminate Stadium but that's mainly because I think STABmons is more beloved than this, if stadium players band together and make their voices heard then a further conversation could happen.

 

[violet river]

add draft it has aura and people would actually want to play it

 

[Theycallmephil]

add zu it has aura and people would actually want to play it
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