Yeah, in the 17 years we've had Starmie, only Excadrill could be considered to outperform Starmie as an offensive spinner... and he's banned, obviously. Considering he's the only decent offensive spinner we've gotten in the last four generations, I wouldn't get your hopes up for another one.
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Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508
- Thread starter Huntofthelion
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Yeah, in the 17 years we've had Starmie, only Excadrill could be considered to outperform Starmie as an offensive spinner... and he's banned, obviously. Considering he's the only decent offensive spinner we've gotten in the last four generations, I wouldn't get your hopes up for another one.
I've enjoyed reading a lot of the suggestions in this thread, in particular I've noticed people suggest buffs for ice/poison/rock/dark/grass/bug/fire types. Here is a couple of suggestions I have:
Ice
-Bonus +1 to one of speed/defence/ice attacks whilst in hail
-Indirect buffs by increasing hazard removal options
Poison
-Sludge bomb gives 30% (or 50%) of applying toxic poison, not standard poison, when STAB
-Indirect buffs by increasing viability of grass tanks
-Indirect buffs by increasing amount of viable grounded non steel pokemon
Rock (perhaps the closest to being OU viable)
-Aerodactyl to learn Head Smash AND/OR Brave Bird
-More viable movepool/stat/ability combos, all rocks unique abilities are awesome on paper but implemented so poorly
-Viable special rock move and perhaps a more accurate physical move (perhaps rock types have 100% accuracy on STAB attacks)
Dark
-Already a good type, needs a viable type/stat/movepool/ability combination on pokemon that have this typing
-Could use a more powerful move
Grass (the only type that benefits from two weathers, arguably)
-Buff stun spore to 85% accuracy
-Energy ball to 95 power
-Buff SolarBeam, by far the worst weather abusing move, perhaps a 30% chance of "blinding" (lowering accuracy)
-one of passive recovery in rain or a 50% SpDef boost (watered plants)
-Indirectly increase viability as a bulky type with viability of water(120)/ground(100)/electric(120) attacks
Bug
-Viable bug type additions that AREN'T bug/steel (ie compound eyes bug/water (hydro pump) or bug/ghost (will-o-wisp))
-Indirect buff by increasing hazard removal options
Fire
-Indirect buffs by increasing hazard removal options
-Indirect buffs by making sun less difficult to use
I'm predicting with a big change from top down to 3d pokemon, we can expect some big changes to mechanics as well, perhaps the mechanics of battling may not be as similar as they have been for the last few generations
STAB unique things would be cool for example:
rock - perfect accuracy on stab attacks
fire - doubled burn chance on stab attacks (edit: OR a minimum 20% chance to burn if 60% lava plume is too much)
poison - chance of toxic poison on stab attacks
electric - doubled paralysis chance on stab attacks (edit: OR a minimum 20% chance to paralyse if 60% discharge is too much)
etc
Ice
-Bonus +1 to one of speed/defence/ice attacks whilst in hail
-Indirect buffs by increasing hazard removal options
Poison
-Sludge bomb gives 30% (or 50%) of applying toxic poison, not standard poison, when STAB
-Indirect buffs by increasing viability of grass tanks
-Indirect buffs by increasing amount of viable grounded non steel pokemon
Rock (perhaps the closest to being OU viable)
-Aerodactyl to learn Head Smash AND/OR Brave Bird
-More viable movepool/stat/ability combos, all rocks unique abilities are awesome on paper but implemented so poorly
-Viable special rock move and perhaps a more accurate physical move (perhaps rock types have 100% accuracy on STAB attacks)
Dark
-Already a good type, needs a viable type/stat/movepool/ability combination on pokemon that have this typing
-Could use a more powerful move
Grass (the only type that benefits from two weathers, arguably)
-Buff stun spore to 85% accuracy
-Energy ball to 95 power
-Buff SolarBeam, by far the worst weather abusing move, perhaps a 30% chance of "blinding" (lowering accuracy)
-one of passive recovery in rain or a 50% SpDef boost (watered plants)
-Indirectly increase viability as a bulky type with viability of water(120)/ground(100)/electric(120) attacks
Bug
-Viable bug type additions that AREN'T bug/steel (ie compound eyes bug/water (hydro pump) or bug/ghost (will-o-wisp))
-Indirect buff by increasing hazard removal options
Fire
-Indirect buffs by increasing hazard removal options
-Indirect buffs by making sun less difficult to use
I'm predicting with a big change from top down to 3d pokemon, we can expect some big changes to mechanics as well, perhaps the mechanics of battling may not be as similar as they have been for the last few generations
STAB unique things would be cool for example:
rock - perfect accuracy on stab attacks
fire - doubled burn chance on stab attacks (edit: OR a minimum 20% chance to burn if 60% lava plume is too much)
poison - chance of toxic poison on stab attacks
electric - doubled paralysis chance on stab attacks (edit: OR a minimum 20% chance to paralyse if 60% discharge is too much)
etc
Don't know if this has been said, but a better distribution of Aura Sphere would be nice, mainly for Alakazam and Gengar so they won't have to rely on Focus Blast
EVERY special attacker that wants Fighting coverage would love it, actually, especially some Pokes like Espeon who don't even get Focus Blast.
Chandelure would kill for it.
And fighting could afford to be taken down a notch.
I'd kill for aura sphere gengar / alakazam
Someone mentioned losing the ohko on tar isn't worth the power drop.
:doom:
Thing is, I've always considered Poison to be kind of like Steel in the sense that it is supposed to be a defensive type. Poison is, as Koga said, "Poison brings steady doom. Sleep renders foes helpless. Despair to the creeping horror of Poison-type Pokémon!" (FR/LG) and "My intricate style will confound and destroy you! Confusion, sleep, poison... Prepare to be the victim of my sinister techniques! Fwahahahaha! Pokémon are not merely about brute force--you shall see soon enough!" (G/S). Poison is all about slowly watching your opponent fall from your steady damaging attacks. Sure, it's not the best type to use offensively, but neither is Steel. I don't want Poison to become more offensive, because it just wouldn't fit it thematically.
I really like the idea of STAB-exclusive effects, particularly the Poison/Fire/Electric effects. The Ice type getting a doubled chance of freezing when using STAB moves could prove problematic, but I don't think 20% chance is too bad and the type could really use a buff.
Aside from that, upgrading the stats of previous gen pokemon to be on par with later gens would be warranted. Things like Starmie, Houndoom, etc are pokemon that are either viable or useable under the right circumstances, but don't have the stats to compete with other pokemon objectively. Let's patch that up.
Aside from that, upgrading the stats of previous gen pokemon to be on par with later gens would be warranted. Things like Starmie, Houndoom, etc are pokemon that are either viable or useable under the right circumstances, but don't have the stats to compete with other pokemon objectively. Let's patch that up.
I wouldn't mind that, but I'd rather poison were supereffective against water.. poisoned water na-mean? It'd also do a little to help balance against the water onslaught.
Most used types in OU:
Water (10) > Steel (9) = Flying (9) = Ground (9) = psychic (9) > Dragon (8) > Fighting (6)
Ground (9) is an interesting case but is very very bottom heavy with gastrodon/dugtrio/hippodown bringing out the bottom of OU, mamoswine is essentially JUST for dragon/flying/venusaur checking (former UU) and landorus/landorus-t is a split pokemon
Steel is the most top heavy with 4 pokemon in the top 6 and 5 in the top 20 whilst dragon is the most spread out and psychic is rather bottom heavy (latias, celebi, reuniclus, metagross). In terms of overall types in the meta, it completely drops off after fighting and the meta is very top heavy with the afore mentioned types. It'd be interesting to see what pans out next generation.
edit: Since the introduction of gen 5, water and steel dominating OU has been the only constant during metagame shifts... fighting types have peaked and fallen, flying type shifts depended on the shifts of the three genies and dragon has had quite a few changes
Keep in mind if smogon didn't have drizzle + ss banned, excadrill banned, SV chomp banned, Blaziken banned etc, the meta would look completely different.
Let's see if I can attempt to make a more accurate look at what types are getting used in OU.
1) This uses December's OU stats
2) Each pokemon is assigned a number based on their usage rank, #1 gets 100 points, #2 gets 99 points, #3 gets 98 points, etc.
3) Dual types count as the same value, but give points to both types (ie: scizor gives 100 points to both Bug and Steel)
4) It's not meant to be entirely accurate, this is just what I thought of on the spot. However, I do think it paints a pretty good picture of the type usage in the metagame
Top 20:
(474)Steel -----100 98 96 95 85
(360)Water ----99 91 89 81
(360)Dragon----97 92 88 83
(354)Psychic---95 89 88 82
(191)Grass-----98 93
(185)Bug-------100 85
(183)Flying-----97 86
(181)Rock -----94 87
(180)Fighting---93 87
(180)Fire-------96 84
(178)Ground---92 86
(94)Dark------94
(91)Electric----91
(90)Ghost-----90
(90)Poison-----90
(81)ice--------81
(0)Normal----
Top 50:
(727)Steel ----100 98 96 95 85 73 64 59 57
(711)Water ----99 91 89 81 79 75 70 65 62
(667)Psychic---95 89 88 82 78 69 57 55 54 51
(597)Dragon----97 92 88 83 67 63 55 52
(588)Flying----97 86 80 73 70 68 58 56
(509)Fighting--93 87 76 75 64 61 53
(426)Ground---- 92 86 74 60 58 56
(333)Fire------96 84 77 76
(317)Grass-----98 93 72 54
(294)Poison---- 90 79 72 53
(289)Electric--91 71 68 59
(262)Bug-------100 85 77
(222)ice------- 81 74 67
(181)Rock -----94 87
(157)Dark------94 63
(155)Ghost-----90 65
(66)Normal---- 66
Edit: There are a number of notable threats ranked 51-60, and I probably should have done this list as the top 60 and not the top 50, but I'm too lazy to go back and change everything for them now.
Steel, Water, Dragon, and Psychics are clearly the most present types in the metagame by a large margin. Surprising? Not really. But it is cool to see them with stat weights attatched, imo. Steel does beat out Water though in both comparisons here.
Or you may choose to look at it as an average of the ranking placement within each respective type. This shows us which types average out to be higher on the list than others. This type of comparison would probably work better using the top 100 or something, as it favors types that only have a few pokemon that are at the top of the list, ie rock, which only has 2 pokemon within the top 50, but both are very good vs Psychic which hold many spots in the metagame and are quite common, but many are lower ranked. This list shows that.
(using top 50 averages):
Rock: 90.5
Bug: 87.333
Fire: 83.25
Steel: 80.778
Grass: 79.25
Water: 79
Dark: 78.5
Ghost: 77.5
Dragon: 74.625
Ice: 74
Flying: 73.5
Poison: 73.5
Fighting: 72.714
Electric: 72.5
Ground: 71
Psychic: 66.7
Normal: 66
Take the meaning of any of the above stats however you want.
Ok GenVI wishlist time :)
1. Bulkier spinner with RELIABLE RECOVERY
I think the thing that mainly holds spinners back is their lack of recovery. Starmie is the only spinner with reliable recovery and when Starmie is viable in a bulky role, you know you need something better.
2. Better distribution of good abilities
Magic Guard, Regenerator, Poison Heal, Intimidate are all good abilities with limited distribution. Arguably Intimidate hasn't done too badly but both Salamence and Gyarados normally prefer Moxie. Another ability that needs better distribution is CLOUD NINE. Something similar to Mountaineer seen in CAP would also be good, please just don't give it to something like Volcarona.
3. A few more unique type combinations
Things like Steel/Ghost would be viable (without Levitate because that would be broken) or Flying/Fighting. And maybe buff some of the more unique combinations we already have too. I'd like to see Empoleon get Slack Off to make it viable in OU. Kingdra needs more useable physical moves that can get through Ferrothorn. Weavile could use a better ability, which leads on nicely to my next point.
4. Buffs to some of the less viable types
I would like to see more Ice, Poison, Fire and Bug types in OU. As in Bug types that aren't Steel. Ice types are hugely useful for taking on Dragon types but lose out because of their general frailty and weakness to residual damage. A few buffs to Ice as a type or maybe hail would help. Maybe a physical counterpart to Blizzard with more accuracy but no secondary effect? Maybe a few Ice types can get Mountaineer/Regenerator/Magic Guard as well as mentioned above. Fire and Bug types generally have the same weaknesses as Ice types so something similar could work there. Poison types have an awful STAB type because it only beats Grass types while Steel types are completely immune to it so maybe a few more types could be weak to Poison, like perhaps Dragon?
5. NO MORE POWER CREEP
I'm looking at you, Hydreigon and Kyurem-B. Kyurem-B has base 170 Atk and is allowed in OU. It doesn't even need to invest in its Atk to be more powerful than a fully invested Salamence. While Hydreigon has some of the best coverage in the game allowing it to hit its 'checks' where it hurts. Nasty Plot Thundurus-T isn't far behind, Focus Blast 2HKOes Chansey after a boost. Please no more.
Of course, Nintendo won't listen to anything I have to say. They will introduce a Dragon/Fighting that gets banned almost instantly, stick Rapid Spin on a Bug/Flying and call it a day. But I can hope right?
1. Bulkier spinner with RELIABLE RECOVERY
I think the thing that mainly holds spinners back is their lack of recovery. Starmie is the only spinner with reliable recovery and when Starmie is viable in a bulky role, you know you need something better.
2. Better distribution of good abilities
Magic Guard, Regenerator, Poison Heal, Intimidate are all good abilities with limited distribution. Arguably Intimidate hasn't done too badly but both Salamence and Gyarados normally prefer Moxie. Another ability that needs better distribution is CLOUD NINE. Something similar to Mountaineer seen in CAP would also be good, please just don't give it to something like Volcarona.
3. A few more unique type combinations
Things like Steel/Ghost would be viable (without Levitate because that would be broken) or Flying/Fighting. And maybe buff some of the more unique combinations we already have too. I'd like to see Empoleon get Slack Off to make it viable in OU. Kingdra needs more useable physical moves that can get through Ferrothorn. Weavile could use a better ability, which leads on nicely to my next point.
4. Buffs to some of the less viable types
I would like to see more Ice, Poison, Fire and Bug types in OU. As in Bug types that aren't Steel. Ice types are hugely useful for taking on Dragon types but lose out because of their general frailty and weakness to residual damage. A few buffs to Ice as a type or maybe hail would help. Maybe a physical counterpart to Blizzard with more accuracy but no secondary effect? Maybe a few Ice types can get Mountaineer/Regenerator/Magic Guard as well as mentioned above. Fire and Bug types generally have the same weaknesses as Ice types so something similar could work there. Poison types have an awful STAB type because it only beats Grass types while Steel types are completely immune to it so maybe a few more types could be weak to Poison, like perhaps Dragon?
5. NO MORE POWER CREEP
I'm looking at you, Hydreigon and Kyurem-B. Kyurem-B has base 170 Atk and is allowed in OU. It doesn't even need to invest in its Atk to be more powerful than a fully invested Salamence. While Hydreigon has some of the best coverage in the game allowing it to hit its 'checks' where it hurts. Nasty Plot Thundurus-T isn't far behind, Focus Blast 2HKOes Chansey after a boost. Please no more.
Of course, Nintendo won't listen to anything I have to say. They will introduce a Dragon/Fighting that gets banned almost instantly, stick Rapid Spin on a Bug/Flying and call it a day. But I can hope right?
???
Starmie is a great mon, I've no idea what you're on about
edit: I like the guy above me's list!
Not to dig up an old topic but if someone wants something unbanned, it doesn't make sense for them to prove a negative (that it isn't overpowered). It should be the other party's responsibility to provide proof as to why something is overpowered (and seeing how bans here are among the most objective I've seen from any game community, it shouldn't be too hard to do).
Just something that bothers me.
Anyway, for new generation I'd love IVs to be used exclusively for HP. I don't really play much on simulators (mostly because I'm the type of person that will extensively study a game before I play in it competitively) but I do a fair amount of random battles online and it requires so much breeding to get a decent team. I ended up catching 6 dittos with IVs of 31, each in a different stat, to cut down significantly on breeding times (though the amount of time it took catching dittos was pretty fucking long). If IVs were gone, so would the days of catching 30 Lati@s with several IVs between 0 and 10 :P
I like the idea someone mentioned that poison should lower special attack, however only regular poison. Toxic has been separating itself more and more from regular poison in every generation and it'd be nice if regular poison had an actual application. On the other hand, a single layer of toxic spikes causing a special attack cut seems pretty unfair. Maybe a "Spectral Burn" or something like that which applies a burn that cuts special attack? I mean there's already two types of poison, would two types of burns be asking for too much?
As for a few things I've been thinking about that I'd love to have.
Obviously, Hail giving Ice a +50% defense boost. Seems fair.
A new Normal/Ghost type. Its only weakness would be dark, as normal takes care of the ghost weakness and ghost takes care of the fighting weakness. It could have STAB Extremespeed as well as the ability to spinblock. I don't know, it's not really all that well thought out yet.
A Poison/Steel type with levitate. Only a weakness to fire (2x to boot), and 10 resistances plus two immunities. That's resistance to 12 types, compared to Forretress's 9. While a Steel/Dragon with Levitate would have more resistances, the type seems more offensively inclined. Like, how the pokemon artists would end up drawing such a pokemon would be an lean, mean, killing machine rather than a bulkier one.
A new auto-hail inducer. I mean come on, Abomasnow has SEVEN weaknesses. That's just not fair to hail.
Increased recovery move distribution, as mentioned several times in this thread.
A new move called "Clear Skies" or something, removes weather from the field. Cloud Nine should also get better distribution. That, and a Castform evolution with an upgraded weather ball attack that will always get a STAB. Sort of like Judgement.
There's no need for a lot of new abilities. There's some abilities that, frankly, need some move loving in terms of distribution. Adaptability, Filter, Tinted Lens, Shield Dust are the main ones that come to mind. I disagree with the double abilities idea. That would be such a clusterfuck that would just needlessly complicate the game, not to mention the meta.
And a lot more gravity abusers. Psuedo-weather getting more abusers would be nice, though I don't think they should have auto-inducers like weather does.
My two cents
Edit: As to why I have a join date of April 2009 but my first post is almost four years later... I'm a lurker finally deciding to post. Don't hurt me.
Just something that bothers me.
Anyway, for new generation I'd love IVs to be used exclusively for HP. I don't really play much on simulators (mostly because I'm the type of person that will extensively study a game before I play in it competitively) but I do a fair amount of random battles online and it requires so much breeding to get a decent team. I ended up catching 6 dittos with IVs of 31, each in a different stat, to cut down significantly on breeding times (though the amount of time it took catching dittos was pretty fucking long). If IVs were gone, so would the days of catching 30 Lati@s with several IVs between 0 and 10 :P
I like the idea someone mentioned that poison should lower special attack, however only regular poison. Toxic has been separating itself more and more from regular poison in every generation and it'd be nice if regular poison had an actual application. On the other hand, a single layer of toxic spikes causing a special attack cut seems pretty unfair. Maybe a "Spectral Burn" or something like that which applies a burn that cuts special attack? I mean there's already two types of poison, would two types of burns be asking for too much?
As for a few things I've been thinking about that I'd love to have.
Obviously, Hail giving Ice a +50% defense boost. Seems fair.
A new Normal/Ghost type. Its only weakness would be dark, as normal takes care of the ghost weakness and ghost takes care of the fighting weakness. It could have STAB Extremespeed as well as the ability to spinblock. I don't know, it's not really all that well thought out yet.
A Poison/Steel type with levitate. Only a weakness to fire (2x to boot), and 10 resistances plus two immunities. That's resistance to 12 types, compared to Forretress's 9. While a Steel/Dragon with Levitate would have more resistances, the type seems more offensively inclined. Like, how the pokemon artists would end up drawing such a pokemon would be an lean, mean, killing machine rather than a bulkier one.
A new auto-hail inducer. I mean come on, Abomasnow has SEVEN weaknesses. That's just not fair to hail.
Increased recovery move distribution, as mentioned several times in this thread.
A new move called "Clear Skies" or something, removes weather from the field. Cloud Nine should also get better distribution. That, and a Castform evolution with an upgraded weather ball attack that will always get a STAB. Sort of like Judgement.
There's no need for a lot of new abilities. There's some abilities that, frankly, need some move loving in terms of distribution. Adaptability, Filter, Tinted Lens, Shield Dust are the main ones that come to mind. I disagree with the double abilities idea. That would be such a clusterfuck that would just needlessly complicate the game, not to mention the meta.
And a lot more gravity abusers. Psuedo-weather getting more abusers would be nice, though I don't think they should have auto-inducers like weather does.
My two cents
Edit: As to why I have a join date of April 2009 but my first post is almost four years later... I'm a lurker finally deciding to post. Don't hurt me.
Download PokeGen. No more breeding and its really easy to make your pokemon and getting them into your game.
This is something I have been thinking about a lot since the Gen VI announcement. It'd would be the most thankful for Levitate along with Rotom-Heat since they would be avoiding their 4X ground weakness. I'm happy someone brought this up since everyone has been raving and ranting about a Steel/Ghost pokemon with levitate.
A Steel/Ghost with Levitate would be a pretty good idea, BUT it's gotta have a good stat distribution for what everyone wants. If they all want a Special wall, It's gotta be distributed that way otherwise we'll all end up disappointed. As long as Gamefreak doesn't screw this up, we should be fine, we just can't say "Oh Yeah... Steel/Ghost with Levitate will be the best thing for the metagame since starmie!" because it won't... Unless it's done right.
Could you tell me where exactly in the Japanese website? It's somewhat hard to navigate without knowing... japanese
I'd actually rather Poison not change, because it serves as the most common early-game status. You might see a few pokes with small Paralysis/Burn/Sleep moves in the beginning of a game, but Poison's usually ubiquitous. Now, a Special-Burn's certainly not a bad idea, but I think a new status ailment (Irradiated? Just making up stuff) would be in order for it.
I think we'd also need Physical/Special a little more homogenized before we did it. We have way more methods of hampering Physical attackers, but they also have a far, far easier time boosting and have way more options for getting that harder-hitting attack. Heck, Swords Dance is such a common TM, yet Calm Mind is still our only useful Special-boosting one. Then you have Physical moves that are >100 BP because they have recoil or a drawback, whereas powerful Special moves usually just get low accuracy (which anyone can tell you SUCKS).
This is a good idea, and while it only has two mediocre resistances (I suppose resisting Bug helps with U-turn?), the Fighting immunity is great. It also walls that "unresisted-STAB Fighting/Ghost type" people love throwing around. The only issue is whether its lack of real resistances makes it better than competing Ghost types.
Don't get me wrong, this is cool, but a Ghost/Steel, or as you said yourself, a Dragon/Steel, would do the same job but generally better. Ghost has the advantage of a Fighting immunity and spinblocking, and Dragon lets it resist Water and Electric, which in a metagame with common Rain abusers is great. Though I do have to admit, they'd have to give the Dragon/Steel mediocore offenses to minimize abusing Draco Meteor/Outrage and just becoming a bulky attacker. Or I guess they could remove those tutors, but that seems unlikely.
But only for certain roles. Otherwise you end up hurting defensive teams and just giving bulyk attackers more options. Most bulky Waters and Ghosts would love a better recovery move than Rest/Pain Split. Some bulky Grass-types have crap options, and lord knows some Rapid Spinners would kill for more sustainability. Oh, and Cresselia would like one too.
I agree wholeheartedly, though someone somewhere suggested Defog could have this affect, which would be cool. If Air Lock simply put into place the "no weather" weather, that would be nice too (assuming someone else got it too).
I think a few more immunity abilities could be nice, namely ones that provide useful, but not gamebreaking immunities. Think an ability that gives an immunity to Rock moves, and hence Stealth Rock and half of Terrakion's STAB. Or an immunity to Dragon, possibly even with a stat boost (Dragon Slayer? I dunno). Immunity to Ghost (Fearless?), Ice (Really Warm?), heck even make Justified give a Dark immunity. It's not hard and it could make things a little more interesting. Especially on dominant types.
It's hard to define a Gravity abuser. Something that needs to hit with Ground moves? There aren't many that wouldn't mind too much using another type. Hitting with powerful low-accuracy moves? That's nice, but does it offset the opportunity cost of having to set up Gravity every five turns? If Gravity/Trick Room/Wonder Room simply got a "Heat Stone" that'd greatly improve their viability (which might still be low).
I agree that a permanent producer of those effects could be very overpowered or centralizing (especially Trick Room), so unless it counts as "weather" and thus can be overwritten by other weather (which is dumb, I think they should stay away from that idea). Though I suppose if their ability were that they put them in place and they lasted 5 turns after the inducer switched out ... that's work OK.
Other than an item that boosts Attack and Sp.Attack of NFE's (like an offensive Eviolite), I would be ectatic if an item like below is ever introduced:
Effectively this gives a Pokemon a new 2nd Type as it enters the battle. This means it would have a new STAB to make use of, and a new set of resistances and weaknesses, in exchange for the item slot, which could have been used for arguably better items such as Leftovers or Life Orb. For example:
We can have our Grass/Dragon Serperior (Dragon Pulse), and Electric/Dark Luxray (Crunch) with this item, but some Pokemon retypings would prove to be disasters in terms of flavor, such as Fighting/Fire Machamp (Fire Punch) or Water/Bug Samurott (Megahorn). But that's all fun, right? Also, this way the item is self-checking in that it doesn't really allow such ludicrous typing combinations. A Ground-Flying Hippowdon can never happen, because it does not learn Aerial Ace or any other flying-type attack moves. Case in point:
Based on the filler move, Mutagen only allows the following typing for Hippowdon, none of which are that hard to imagine:
Yes, this item is limited only to Pokemon with no secondary types yet. Yes, you can't get a Grass/Fire Sceptile because the Pokemon's movepool limits the possible retypings it could have. However, the variety this one little item adds to the metagame is tremendous. It would also be good to observe how the dual-typed Pokemon who can't use this item would fare in this scenario. With this item, we don't have to wait until Generation 10 for all possible type combinations to become available.
Mutagen
If the Pokemon holding this item does not have a 2nd Type, it gains a 2nd Type same as the type of one of its attacking moves in its current moveset.
The 2nd Type can't be the same as the 1st Type. If the Pokemon already has a 2nd Type, this item will have no effect. If the Pokemon does not have any attacking moves at all, or of a type other than its 1st Type, this item will have no effect. If it has more than one possible type, 2nd Type will be randomized. This change in type occurs immediately after a Pokemon is sent into battle, before receiving any hazard damage or attack. A recalled Pokemon reverts back to its original typing. If Mutagen is removed by Knock Off, Fling or Trick/Switcheroo, the Pokemon reverts back to its original typing. Hidden Power is considered as a Normal-type move.
Effectively this gives a Pokemon a new 2nd Type as it enters the battle. This means it would have a new STAB to make use of, and a new set of resistances and weaknesses, in exchange for the item slot, which could have been used for arguably better items such as Leftovers or Life Orb. For example:
Haxorus @ Mutagen
Mold Breaker
Adamant
36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
~ Outrage
~ Aqua Tail
~ Dragon Dance
~ Swords Dance / Brick Break
With this set, Haxorus forgoes a Life Orb in exchange for getting a 2nd Type of Water. This allows him to get a very good secondary STAB (that can be further boosted by rain). Also, its Ice weakness becomes a neutrality, he gets a Steel resistance, and his Water and Fire resistances become doubled (thus only receiving 1/4 damage from these types, very helpful against rain and sun teams). Sure it loses its Grass and Electric resistances, but in exchange, you get a powered-up Double Dancer Kingdra with base 147 Attack. If one decides to drop Swords Dance and use Brick Break instead, you have equal chances of getting a Dragon/Water and Dragon/Fighting, the former having very nice resistances, and the latter having excellent (unresisted?) dual STABs.
We can have our Grass/Dragon Serperior (Dragon Pulse), and Electric/Dark Luxray (Crunch) with this item, but some Pokemon retypings would prove to be disasters in terms of flavor, such as Fighting/Fire Machamp (Fire Punch) or Water/Bug Samurott (Megahorn). But that's all fun, right? Also, this way the item is self-checking in that it doesn't really allow such ludicrous typing combinations. A Ground-Flying Hippowdon can never happen, because it does not learn Aerial Ace or any other flying-type attack moves. Case in point:
Hippowdon @ Mutagen
~ Earthquake
~ Slack Off
~ Roar
~ "filler"
Based on the filler move, Mutagen only allows the following typing for Hippowdon, none of which are that hard to imagine:
- Ground-Normal, with Return
- Ground-Dark, with Crunch
- Ground-Ice, with Ice Fang
- Ground-Fire, with Fire Fang
- Ground-Fighting, with Superpower
- Ground-Steel, with Iron Tail
- Ground-Rock, with Stone Edge
Yes, this item is limited only to Pokemon with no secondary types yet. Yes, you can't get a Grass/Fire Sceptile because the Pokemon's movepool limits the possible retypings it could have. However, the variety this one little item adds to the metagame is tremendous. It would also be good to observe how the dual-typed Pokemon who can't use this item would fare in this scenario. With this item, we don't have to wait until Generation 10 for all possible type combinations to become available.
Many people don't want to say it because it is kind of taboo on this forum (this post will probably be deleted) but weather really killed the metagame. Unlike gen 4 many good teams came and gone without 1 or 2 single variables constant for all of them (excluding SR). Weather made pokemon that wouldn't be threats without it become overpowered. Weather created a metagame where you had to have a counter to it or you were going to lose. I hope for gen 6 smogon takes a smarter approach to determining at root what is broken or not. As far as pokemon I can't believe gen 6 came so fast. I would really like to see some solid changes in mechanics. Thunder wave for example should be 70% accurate. I would like to see critical hits be removed from the wifi portion of the game or at least be re calculated to be based on the number of boost you or the opponent has. For example if I have a +6 dragonite and my opponent has a mamoswine, ice shard should have a 15% chance of being a critical hit. Now if both pokemon have no boost then there should be 0-1% chance of a critical hit. That change would balance out sweepers and take some luck out of the game. Draws would be more likely though but teams would just have to adjust for that. Overall 5th gen was really a limbo gen for me as rain and sun just crippled fun team building. Hopefully infinite weather will be on a starting ban list. It would be really annoying and heart breaking to deal with boosted scalds next gen.
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