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Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

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Don't use Stone Edge users, then, of course, don't blame later that you can't win games without taking risks. Other option: have a Gravity user, or other: use Rock Slide and you'll miss the half of the time, and you're still having a neat flinch rate, and enough power to a good bunch of things.

Who doesn't take risks, doesn't wins games, at least with some Pokémon, so, making moves and stuff 100% accurate with monstrous raw power (like Water Spout Kyogre on ubers) could just be too overpowered to handle, you have the raw power, you'll miss sometimes, a good trade.
 
Fuck it, they should make stone edge 100% accurate and take away the crit rate. OR make a move that fits that criteria.

It'll be like Earthquake. Earthquake is the most well balanced move in Pokemon. Why not?
 
Because you can't throw a rock without magic and expect it to reach to the target the 100% of times, then, it's not logic. Second, it doesn't fit with the current Rock's theme. And third, it could be excessive overpowered as Rock is the best offensive type of the game alongside Ice, with nobody inmune or x 4 resistant to it, at difference of Earthquake.

As comes of "I rage because I miss my overpowered move!!!" and other "hax" things, you may like this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3477169, but I doubt it will ever happen, or if make a so OP move like that could be a good idea at all.
 
Because you can't throw a rock without magic and expect it to reach to the target the 100% of times, then, it's not logic. Second, it doesn't fit with the current Rock's theme. And third, it could be excessive overpowered as Rock is the best offensive type of the game alongside Ice, with nobody inmune or x 4 resistant to it, at difference of Earthquake.

As comes of "I rage because I miss my overpowered move!!!" and other "hax" things, you may like this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3477169, but I doubt it will ever happen, or if make a so OP move like that could be a good idea at all.

Pokemon is not a logical game at all. Don't even go there. An 80lb human can fly on a 4 pound pidgey for fuck's sake. Also, a lot of moves do not make sense in context. Gastly can lean Fire Punch despite having no arms at all. There's no reason there can't be a homing rock type of attack or some shit. Pokemon is a fucking magical ass game. Shit happens that shouldn't happen.

Rock type's "theme"? That's bullshit and you know it. Rock has no official theme, gamefreak can do whatever the fuck it wants. Before gen 4 All fighting moves not named Focus punch were stupidly weak. Kind of like now how all rock moves not named Power Gem are stupidly inaccurate now. Just because there's a type trend that doesn't mean GF won't be willing to break it.

It wouldn't be overpowered in the fucking slightest. Especially not in a metagame full of fighting and steel types. It's not like we want a rock type version Close Combat/Overheat but more like a rock type flamethrower.
 
I also have an idea for a new item.

Item: Trap Orb

Description: As the user enters the battle it uses this item to lay down a barrier that prevents the opponent from switching for one full turn. (Not counting the turn that the switch happens.) The effect is applied as soon as the user enters battle. One time use.
 
Buffs to certain abilities would be nice, for example

Unnerve - Prevents opponents from using [certain] items

I added the "certain" items because Mewtwo has unnerve and in ubers.. if choice scarfers couldn't revenge it, it'd probably be too uber for ubers. If we could disregard ubers, then unnerve would now be a great ability to have and if Houndoom were to evolve and keep the ability, it'd be a suitable candidate for OU.

Ie: If the item could be used in the turn, it won't be used, but if the item provides passive boosts (i.e. choice items) then those boosts are preserved and unnerve won't prevent these items from "not working" per se.

It'd be great in doubles for cancelling sashes and preventing gem boosted attacks and in single's it'd be great to negate leftover recovery stalling and life orb boosts to attacks.
 
A buff to incinerate would be nice too, it seems too weak to only be burning berries also unlike the dark knock off there are pokemon that are immune to fire, I dont see an issue with incinerate destroying all items and being a slightly stronger knock off
 
I also have an idea for a new item.

Item: Trap Orb

Description: As the user enters the battle it uses this item to lay down a barrier that prevents the opponent from switching for one turn. One time use.
I don't really a point of this Orb, you have Shadow Tag Pokemon or arena Trap for that. That would be a waste of any item on a Pokemon. I mean you can always use Mean Look.

I would actually like to see a Speed Orb.
Description: It gives a Pokemon a +1 in speed at the cost of 1/16 recoil damage each turn. It allows your Pokemon to freely use any move without being locked into one.
 
I don't really a point of this Orb, you have Shadow Tag Pokemon or arena Trap for that. That would be a waste of any item on a Pokemon. I mean you can always use Mean Look.

There's like a total of three Pokemon with either of those abilities. Mean look gets no priority so if you send out your trapper they'll be able to switch. The idea behind the trap orb is that it is activated as soon as the Pokemon is brought into battle and the opponent can't switch out until the turn is over.

Also, to make things clear, it would be for one full turn, meaning the turn that the switch happens wouldn't count. If both Pokemon are brought out at the same time, the barrier would go away after the turn is over.
 
Trap Orb is the worst idea I did heard ever, not for the part of "it's useless!", but by the part of it could be so, but so overpowered that there will be no reason to ever use other item again. Switch-in to hard counter something, as you're hard countering it, then it can't do you something, set up until 6+ with whatever move, sweep, good game.

Dugtrio and Gothitelle rarely hard counter things, Dugtrio can only hard counter things choiced to thunder and that target should be vulnerable to ground, Gothitelle can't hardcounter things at all on OU and it's even weak to U-Turn, and Wobbo can't set up. Probopass sucks as hell and can't setup at all, and Magnezone CAN do it, but because it's not so great defense, bad speed, and no ways to buff them, there's usually no use.

In other words, give that power to a Pokémon like Garchomp, and we should have to ban every Pokémon with good set up moves and if it can hard counter something, or otherwise the game will have to be played around with 6 Pokémon with Trap Orb vs 6 Pokémon with Trap Orb, completely destroying the items side of the game. And if we use the Item Clause, then the massive ban will be needed as you can only avoid trap on 2 of your Pokémon, and the opponent can trap what it hard counter and sweep you all day (and considering some Pokémon can actually hard counter a lot of the metagame, that's not rare). Well, there're some VoltTurners, but it's users are really few on the metagame, so, your number of Pokémon who will not be needed to use Trap Orb could be really small.

This's not a wishlist thread at all.
 
Trap Orb was postulated as something that only lasts ONE turn. You switch in, and at the end of the next turn the opposing Pokémon is able to switch out.

The ACTUAL reason this would be bad is that it would kill stall even more. Got Hydreigon on your team and you need to get rid of Chansey, the only Pokémon that can even come close to being considered a counter? Simple, Trap Orb Conkeldurr with Superpower or Focus Punch.
 
I'd like to see an Ice/Fighting type with good offensive stats (say 60/140/50/110/55/135). It would bet pretty awesome. Ice/Fighting is easily the best offensive typing possible getting super effective STAB damage on 9/17 types of the game.

I'd also like to see more type diversity when it comes to sweepers in general. When I build hyper offense teams there are always at least 2-3 Pokemon weak to rock before I make tweaks.
 
A lot of expectations have been made for gen VI, but what I'd like to have is:

- More accurate physical Rock-type moves
- A priority Fire-type move
- A more reliable physical Fire-type move with a wide distribution (sort of a Fire-type Waterfall)
- A Ghost/Steel with Levitate to shake things up
- More pokemon with the ability to shut down weather (Cloud Nine ability of whatever)
- Starters with new abilities (Fuck Overgrow, Torrent and Blaze)
 
I'd like to see an Ice/Fighting type with good offensive stats (say 60/140/50/110/55/135). It would bet pretty awesome. Ice/Fighting is easily the best offensive typing possible getting super effective STAB damage on 9/17 types of the game.

I'd also like to see more type diversity when it comes to sweepers in general. When I build hyper offense teams there are always at least 2-3 Pokemon weak to rock before I make tweaks.
140/110 offensive stats on top of 135 speed would be incredibly broken, thats like weavile on crack. And tbh, an ice/fighting could likely easily get away with very low speed with potential access to 2 forms of stab priority.

I'd like to see an ice/fighting, but something with much less speed, more bulk, and maybe slightly less attacking stats too (say no to powercreep!)
 
140/110 offensive stats on top of 135 speed would be incredibly broken, thats like weavile on crack. And tbh, an ice/fighting could likely easily get away with very low speed with potential access to 2 forms of stab priority.

I'd like to see an ice/fighting, but something with much less speed, more bulk, and maybe slightly less attacking stats too (say no to powercreep!)

Ok maybe it doesn't need 140 attack especially since it also has 110 special attack...but I feel like a bulky ice type is an oxymoron since icne is a an awful defensive typing. I also don't get why people are saying there's a power creep. Look at Machamp, Rhydon, Alakazam and Gengar. They are first gen pokemon with amazing attack/special attack stats If you look on the Defensive side there was Cloyster, lmao
 
They need to give Ninetale and Politoed abilities that function like Drizzle and Drought but under different names. Nerf their abilities and make them like a one time use Rain Dance/Sunny Day only lasting a few turns.

That way the legendaries can keep their permanent weather. It would stay in ubers where it belongs and is much more checkable thanks to Rayquaza.
 
Nasty plot gengar sounds really interesting. As would an ability that ignores priority associated with attacks. ie:

Reflex - Pokemon evades priority moves [fake out, ice shard, extreme speed]
OR
Agile Sense/Sixth Sense - Ignores the added priority of moves [such that extremespeed, etc will still happen, but the faster of the two pokemon goes first, regardless of move used, would be great as team support in doubles and less broken in singles]

Sceptile would make a great user of sixth sense, especially as it seems to be that type of "alert" pokemon. It'd also fit on various pokemon with middling speed such as Lucario (although he has 3 abilities already).

Really splitting abilities into two would be awesome for this meta, a "trait" and an "ability" could be two seperate things, it'd make sense if Heatran always had flash fire but could also have flame body or magma armour (etc). It'd also open up ability options as discussed before for pokemon who currently exclusively have levitate.
 
Another idea for a move:

Constancy Room

Type: Psychic
Acc: 100%
Power: -
PP: 20

For the next 10 turns, the Pokemon that moves first is based solely on the Pokemon's speed sat and nothing else. If one Pokemon is faster than its opponent and the opponent has a choice scarf or has a priority move, the Pokemon with higher speed always goes first.
 
Are we talking about final speed calculated, or the Pokémon's base invested speed, ignoring all boosts and items? Because Keldeo is faster than Salamence, assuming equal investment, but if Salamence is running a Choice Scarf or has used Dragon Dance his speed in-game that is used to calculate movement order will be higher.
 
I think AffirmativeAction is referring to calculating who goes first solely by the Pokemon's speed stat, ignoring factors such as Speed multipliers like Dragon Dance and Choice Scarf. For example, Jolteon would outspeed Scarf Keldeo and Sand Rush Excadrill.

It's an interesting concept, and it could be a viable strategy in doubles for teams that have many fast Pokemon.
 
Another idea for a move:

Constancy Room

Type: Psychic
Acc: 100%
Power: -
PP: 20

For the next 10 turns, the Pokemon that moves first is based solely on the Pokemon's speed sat and nothing else. If one Pokemon is faster than its opponent and the opponent has a choice scarf or has a priority move, the Pokemon with higher speed always goes first.

A nice idea, but keep in mind that this makes Roar and Whirlwind incredibly broken. All you need is some Stealth Rocks down, and then a speedy Roarer/ Whirlwinder could shuffle a team around for entry hazard damage around 8 turns, while the opponent would be helpless to stop it, barring (hopefully) them being able to get out a faster poke. It would be kind of like that prankster Riolu, except with just regular priority instead of +1 Copycat phazing.

Also, moves like Counter and Mirror Coat wouldn't be able to work properly (not that they're worth beans anyway), Focus Punch and Trick Room would be a bit strange. Protect would be useless unless you're faster I assume. A pretty cool concept, but I think there are just a few kinks that you'd have to work out; a lot of moves have their priority altered for a good reason (i.e. Counter - it's not going to work if you go first).

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After playing gen 5 since around the Blaziken ban, I feel like the single thing I'm hoping for in gen 6 is more defense, in whatever way this could be accomplished. I know that there are a lot of HO/ general offense players who would like to see more super powerful 'mons, but honestly I don't think that that would be for the best. I think that even if you like offense, the meta would get considerably worse if pokemon with ridiculous sweeping potential keep getting thrown in to the mix. The primary reason I believe this is because if the metagame gets too much more offensive, then this will detract away from the skill of the game.

That is to say, if we end up with lots of powerhouses that defensive mons simply cannot stand up to, then the entire game will revolve around 'who can set up their ridiculously dangerous sweeper first'. This introduces a lot more luck in to the game, as you're relying on a lot of prediction to get around threats and switch your pokes in to sweep. No offense to Ubers players, but (from my small amount of Ubers knowledge) this is kind of how the ubers tier functions; for example, there's no reliable way to beat Kyogre - you just kind of have to guess what it's going to do, and hope that whatever you switch in isn't annihilated by a Drizzle boosted Water Spout. Or something.

Having defensive pokemon that can stand up to offensive sweepers, however, means that you can't just Swords Dance up and obliterate your opponent with obscene attack stats. You can't just spam Close Combat or Draco Meteor and expect stuff to die. That is, you actually have to plan how you're going to beat that (for example) Skarmory who's stopping your Terrakion from sweeping. I think that, in the end, adding more defensive pokemon would contribute vastly to the amount of strategy in the game, and would really be the best thing that could happen to the Gen 6 metagame.
 
For the record, no effect should last "for the next 10 turns", specially since GF has made the doubles format an official competition format, and that 10 turns you can almost fit two doubles matches.
 
Agreed with Frostfire and Bent1ey, any temporary effect should just be on the field by around 5-8 turns, you can make them less if they are more aimed to the doubles metagame (like Tailwind), and make them up to 8 if certain things is doing (like held an item, or if it's STAB, or whatever). With that said, the unique exception I could do to that is the Lucky Chant move, that could se some use if it last more.

Also, with the "Consistency Room" move, it should be on the field just 8 turns at most, and it should only affect if the opponent's use an attack move (the same activation request for Sucker Punch), as you could destroy protect (doubles without protect? My gosh, no) and other stuff if it activates with whatever thing.
 
Right. Generation V coming to an end.

Like everyone says, defensive pokemon need to be given a chance.

Arcticblast mentioned about a steel/ghost pokemon with levitate, which, i think, has a high chance of being present in XY. That's because every new generation, a host of new typings appear, and that steel/ghost now resists the QuakeEdge combo, and counters terrakion and the like. And is a spinblocker.

There are many abilities currently that are really promising, but not many pokemon have it. For example, Static. A defensive pokemon with Static (i'm not aware of a defensive pokemon with static (Ampharos? Stunfisk?)) will shake the offensive metagame like hell.


A defensive pokemon with Color Change? Yeah, that sounds cool (needs a bit playing around, especially dragon, ghost-type moves)

What i've written really sounds gimmicky, i know.

How about a dragon type pokemon with Oblivious? Does Oblivious+Outrage even work?

And maybe these Gamefreak people might want to add something to the weathers? Maybe using the move Heatwave in the sun will create an actual heatwave that damages pokemon on the field slightly for a few turns? bringing in any other weather will immediatey remove the current weather and the heatwave's after-effects. Same with using Hurricane in the rain (lol?) damages every pokemon on the team for a few turns. Sand and hail dont need any additions, of course.

Ah, yes. Trick Room's viabilty in the higher tiers has been questioned every time one thinks about it. people want a new abililty or an item that might boost the number of turns it's active. And in the same way, a boost to Gravity, Magnet rise, etc, would be really cool.


5th generation didn't change the mechanics.
3rd gen. brought abilities. 4th gen. brought the special/physical split which changed the scene of competitive battling, so hopefully we may see something new. Though the generation has come too earlier than expected, i do hope there's a lot that will surprise.
 
Arcticblast mentioned about a steel/ghost pokemon with levitate, which, i think, has a high chance of being present in XY. That's because every new generation, a host of new typings appear, and that steel/ghost now resists the QuakeEdge combo, and counters terrakion and the like. And is a spinblocker.

Counters Terrakion, is capable of countering both special and physical variants of Landorus, can counter most Fighting-types, sandstorm sweepers like Stoutland, as well as Tornadus (as long as it had good Special Defense)!

I was thinking; if a Steel/Ghost with Levitate existed, it could form a good three-Steel core with Heatran and Ferrothorn. Yes, that would be possible AND viable if this Pokémon existed. Thogether, the three would protect each other from attacks that Steel-types normally do not resist: Heatran protects both from Fire-type attacks; Ferrothorn tanks the Water- and Electric-type attacks; the Steel/Ghost takes care of the Ground- and Fighting-type attacks. Couting only current Pokémon, only mediocre Pokémon like Infernape are capable of breaking this core.
 
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