-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
RU Threat List
- Thread starter Xephyr
- Start date
- Status
To put a finer point on it, Speed boost passing is just outclassed now, with SmashPass Gorebyss and the like actually being able to attack while Ninjask needs a few turns of set-up in order to actually have a good BP. Plus, Yanmega gets BP too. No one uses it, but its there.
Also, I think Scyther works really well with Rapid Spin support. 281/294/294 defenses (Eviolite boost included, give one 295 for the 4 EV's) are epic for a sweeper. I can't argue that there are a few pokes that wall it to hell and back, but it DOES beat Cress easily, along with several other pokes with its 110 base Attack and 105 base Speed.
Where is this "rain" you speak of? Although it works, there are very few actual rain teams in this tier.
9.9 I'm not writing back at this for Gen (and to avoid another warning >.>)
Forgive me if I say that "Ninjask just being lame" is not a good reason to leave him off the threat list.
Ninjask is still one of the best Baton Passers of speed in the game. Believe me, a BP team is much more intimidating when it outspeeds everything.
It at least deserves a mention.
As for Qwilfish, I've run a pseudo double-dancer set to moderate success (Waterfall/Poison Jab/Rain Dance/Swords Dance actually has decent coverage in UU and with Rain I can outspeed everything)
Qwilfish's bulk definitely helps this, and it's obviously also a good spiker.
I don't actually see how he's outclassed by the other spikers...
Why? It's main set is Dragon Claw/ Superpower/ Sucker Punch/ Rock Slide.
Only Rock Slide is boosted by Sheer Force.
Qwilfish and bulk shouldn't really be in the same sentence. I missed memo where 65/75/55 defenses were considered good.
It's outclassed by Ferroseed astronomically as a spiker, and is even outclassed by Omastar or even Drapion if you're looking for Toxic Spikes. That offensive set is also outclassed by Ludicolo, Kabutops, Omastar, etcetc.
Yes, but the set I use is this:
Thunder fang
Fire fang
Rock slide
Crunch
Sure it doesn't get STAB but with life orb and sheer force it hits like a truck.
I can see future sight being an option, But I wouldn't put it as a main option, more of an other option to catch your opponent by surprise.
That and I'd have to try it out myself in game to see the pros and cons myself but pairing it up with Rhyperior is a good idea.
There's also team preview, if you see a dark type on your opponent's team you're less likely to be spamming Psychic, or if they have a water absorber your less likely to spam surf
if they have Both a water absorber and dark type, Slowking is in a bit of a pickle, maybe I'll just spam Fire Blast and get lucky if they switch in a bug :P
And you can try to predict switches, I think they'll send in water Absorb Poliwrath, maybe I should predict and use Grass knot or Ice beam on Honchkrow
Water and Psychic resist isn't as bad as immunities as your still doing damage since you get stab and specs boost the damage you would be similar to doing a neutral unstab damage (I'm just guessing as I'm too lazy to do the calculations)
As for Qwilfish, are they any other double spikers in the tier? Since it can use both Spikes and toxic spikes and it get's useful Intimidate, some investment in physical bulk could help switch it in on some physical attacks while they switch out as you set up hazards.
I've also used Intimidate to troll Gorebyss before it can pull off a shell smash, taking away it's white herb before it could use it for Shell smash, since White herb activates as long as any of your stats decrease, even attack. But not all Gorebyss carry white herb but the majority of Gorebyss I've face generally do carry white herb. It makes Gorebyss or any pokemon it baton passes to vulnerable to revenge by Priority especially Entei's Extreme Speed.
That and I'd have to try it out myself in game to see the pros and cons myself but pairing it up with Rhyperior is a good idea.
There's also team preview, if you see a dark type on your opponent's team you're less likely to be spamming Psychic, or if they have a water absorber your less likely to spam surf
if they have Both a water absorber and dark type, Slowking is in a bit of a pickle, maybe I'll just spam Fire Blast and get lucky if they switch in a bug :P
And you can try to predict switches, I think they'll send in water Absorb Poliwrath, maybe I should predict and use Grass knot or Ice beam on Honchkrow
Water and Psychic resist isn't as bad as immunities as your still doing damage since you get stab and specs boost the damage you would be similar to doing a neutral unstab damage (I'm just guessing as I'm too lazy to do the calculations)
As for Qwilfish, are they any other double spikers in the tier? Since it can use both Spikes and toxic spikes and it get's useful Intimidate, some investment in physical bulk could help switch it in on some physical attacks while they switch out as you set up hazards.
I've also used Intimidate to troll Gorebyss before it can pull off a shell smash, taking away it's white herb before it could use it for Shell smash, since White herb activates as long as any of your stats decrease, even attack. But not all Gorebyss carry white herb but the majority of Gorebyss I've face generally do carry white herb. It makes Gorebyss or any pokemon it baton passes to vulnerable to revenge by Priority especially Entei's Extreme Speed.
Don't worry, I'm with ya bro. I can see Future Sight being situationally good. Besides its totally unexpected. Its easy to think of Future Sight as being terrible...if you KNOW the foe is going to use it like in the other people's examples. But its so rare that I could see people sending a Dark Type to take the Psychic attack and instead having the "would be wasted turn" into a useful one.
Bottom line, deviating from the totally unoriginal and expected movesets can prove great results. After being owned by a Leafeon's Natural Gift Electric with my Gyarados I've learned that unexpected moves that aren't just copy-pasted from the smogon movesets can lead you to victory in specific situations.
But relying on the surprise factor to win is not a consistent strategy. Sets that are standard are standard for a reason: because they are the best options available. Sure, you might get a win or two by using weird shit like Imprison Musharna with Calm Mind/Substitute/Psychic to stop SubCM Cress, but that doesn't mean it's actually a good Pokemon to use.
My point about bulkiness was more from the standpoint of Qwilfish's typing than anything else, but it can take enough hits to get spikes up.
That said, I can see why you wouldn't be inclined to put Qwilfish up. Even if it has Intimidate.
imo even if it's not good, Ninjask needs a mention if it's common enough, but ultimately you're the judge on that.
That said, I can see why you wouldn't be inclined to put Qwilfish up. Even if it has Intimidate.
imo even if it's not good, Ninjask needs a mention if it's common enough, but ultimately you're the judge on that.
yeah, I'll agree with you here that there is a line between gimmick and creative. Creative sets do not completely rely on the surprise factor (but still benefit from it to some extent). Gimmicks do. That's the line between CB Swampert (creative, lures and koes Ferrothorn) and Specs Ferrothorn (omg kills dragons with hp ice !!!1!!1! obviously a gimmick)
Honestly, both Qwilfish and Ninjask can be good, but that's not the point. The point of this thread is to show people the things that are COMMON and must be prepared for because of that. If something is good, then that's great, feel free to use it and dominate. However, if you're the only person that uses that particular good Pokemon, then I don't think it needs to be on a threat list.
that's pretty much what I just said. I agree with you -- it doesn't matter how good they are. That's why I'm wondering if Ninjask is common enough to be included?
remove audino then. it's bad and literally nobody uses it
The point of this thread is to list common threats. Just because something isn't on the list doesn't mean it can't be a threat, so I really think people should stop defending their ideas as if they need to be included. Nobody's saying that you can't use it, nobody's saying that you can't be successful with it, but it just doesn't belong on this specific list.
Now you don't NEED to put this mon on the list if you don't think it has exactly the potential, but I think that LO Sheer force Braviary deserves a mention. I use this thing and it just wrecks teams up alongside my other sheer force LO user. Seriously, I've been down 3 pokemons and this thing evens out the score before going down. Anyways, I've had good success with it so I thought I should bring it up.
- Status