Resource RU Viability Rankings - V2

Status
Not open for further replies.

phantom

is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
RU Leader
RANKING UPDATES:

Mandibuzz A+ --> S
Bronzong B --> A
Tyrantrum B+ --> A-
Glalie-Mega A- --> B+
Necrozma A- --> B+
Umbreon A- --> B+
Escavalier B --> B+
Bruxish B- --> B
Ampharos-mega C+ --> B-
Drapion C- --> C+
Tsareena B --> C+
Vanilluxe C --> C+
Decidueye C+ --> C

Reasoning:
Bronzong has proven to be a staple on many balance teams due to its great resists and longevity. It's become more obvious how well Bronzong checks certain Pokemon due to how much more common it's getting. Bronzong is also one of the few passive SR users that isn't totally stopped by Gligar, while the combination of Protect + Toxic allows it to wear down and outlast Mandibuzz and Blastoise.

Tyrantrum moved up because of its excellent Choice Scarf set which has seen increased usage due to being one of the best cleaners and offensive Salazzle checks in the tier. The lack of good offensive Head Smash resists makes it very difficult for offense to switch into, and its raw power allows it to pull its weight well against balance teams also.

Glalie and Necrozma have both moved down because various meta trends have been unfavorable to both. The rising Bronzong usage heavily hurts Glalie, while Mandibuzz's dominance has made it difficult for Necrozma to perform consistently. Neither Pokemon is consistent enough or easy enough to slap on a team to warrant a place in the A ranks.

Escavalier and Bruxish moved up as both have proven to be excellent wallbreakers with their Choice Band sets. Bruxish's speed tier and coverage makes it difficult to check for balance teams, while Escavalier's access to Pursuit makes it a good punisher for Bronzong balance teams and teams dependant on Scarf Gardevoir.

Tsareena has moved down because it has a hard time performing in this meta. Most Stealth Rock users can outlast it, while its middling Speed tier and only average bulk makes it inconsistent in other matchups. Mega Blastoise is also a significantly better spinner for bulky offense, while offensive teams have much better options for offensive Grass-types.

Discussion Points:

Milotic S --> A+
Honchkrow A- --> B+
Snorlax A- --> B+
Ninetales B --> B+
Mismagius B --> B+
Espeon B- --> B
Florges B- --> C+
Noivern C+ --> B-

Will update the OP whenever the forums aren’t messed up.
 
Cresselia should go from A+ TO S

Cresselia can sweep the entire RU tier (unless Ur dark, ghost, steel or psychic). If you can set it up with 2+ calm minds, you can potentially 0HKO the opponent. However, I do see something that affects my idea such as if you set up, your risking a move which could hurt you ( knock off or any status moves). Cresselia also gets a great move pool from Psyshock to Moon blast. It can also stall using toxic and moon light +leftovers. It can also tank sp attack hit and dish out damage thanks to it getting calm mind. It can also help set up. One common thing I see is trick room. It could help slow mons such as bronzong or P2 do some damage to the other team. It can also help out a crippled sweeper by getting Lunar Dance (but its used mostly as a last resort).
 
Cresselia should go from A+ TO S

Cresselia can sweep the entire RU tier (unless Ur dark, ghost, steel or psychic). If you can set it up with 2+ calm minds, you can potentially 0HKO the opponent. However, I do see something that affects my idea such as if you set up, your risking a move which could hurt you ( knock off or any status moves). Cresselia also gets a great move pool from Psyshock to Moon blast. It can also stall using toxic and moon light +leftovers. It can also tank sp attack hit and dish out damage thanks to it getting calm mind. It can also help set up. One common thing I see is trick room. It could help slow mons such as bronzong or P2 do some damage to the other team. It can also help out a crippled sweeper by getting Lunar Dance (but its used mostly as a last resort).
The S rank is reserved for the mons that truly dominate the tier - the mons that the tier is shaped around. They have basically no flaws, there is no drawback to using them. They are as perfect as a non-broken mon can be. Cress is not one of those. In fact, Cress happens to have several gaping flaws. While its bulk is preposterous for a mon residing in a lower tier like RU, it is far from perfect, mainly because of the following reasons:
* Its lack of offensive presence
* Its vulnerability to status
* Its imperfect source of recovery

Due to its pathetic sp atk stat, its damage output is minimal. It is quite literally a sitting duck. This passivity makes it exploitable, as it lets a lot of mons take advantage of it to either:
* recover with their defensive mon (i.e weakened milo, mandi, glig etc)
* Spin/defog away hazards
* Set up (hoopa, gatr, linoone, doub etc)
* Get in their breaker and start wreaking havoc (Escav, Aboma etc).
* Lay up hazards of their own basically for free

Its vulnerability to status is probably its biggest flaw. If Cress had magic guard, it would easily be broken. Its absurd bulk is second only to Zygarde-Complete, and its defensive typing grants is key resists against the ever common fighting and psychic type. Its current ability also lets it wall any ground type bar the rare CB Megahorn Rhyperior. However, its weakness to status, i.e the omnipresent move that is toxic, keeps it from walling what it is supposed to anywhere near as effectively. This forces it to switch out of almost any defensive pokemon, as it will lose 1v1 because of toxic damage racking up to the point of it overwhelming moonlight recovery/pp. It can also be caught by an unexpected "random" toxics from offensive mons it would otherwise be able to wall. Thankfully for Cress, the rise of Refresh Milo slightly discourages the use of Toxic, at least to the point where you actually have to think about using it, and can't just slap it on any mon ever.

Lastly, its recovery move, Moonlight, has several flaws. For one its low pp hurts it a lot. Oftentimes you will come to find that had you had double the pp, which moves such as roost and recover have, you would not be in dire danger of getting pp stalled, contradictory to the position you will likely experience being in several times using Cress. Not only will you be pressured to preserve pp, and thus play in a riskier manner, but you will also find yourself unable to wall mons because you use up all your pp. But not only does it lack pp, it also gets weakened in weather. Admittedly, thankfully for Cress, Rain does not exist, Giga is rarer than ever and Vanilluxe is only a niche mon. It is still noteworthy however, as the latter two can completely screw with its ability to check the threats it needs to, because it fails to recover enough of health due to the weather present.

In conclusion:
Cress has several flaws.
It is too passive, which can and will be taken advantage of.
Cress' weakness to status makes it far from immortal, making it a whole lot harder to check what it is supposed to.
Moonlight is a flawed recovery move, as it that lacks pp and gets nerfed in weather.
For these reasons I believe Cress is unworthy of S. In fact, I believe it is currently ranked to high. I do not think it is worthy of being ranked alongside the likes of Gatr and Lix. Instead, I would like Cress to fall to A-rank.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
phantom btw, the reasoning didn't specify why Drapion rose. Is it because it is a boosting Dark-type that doesn't get outsped & smacked by Cress's Moonblast? Or might it even have to do with Pursuit?

Mismagius from B to B+

I support this nomination; Mismagius has had more breathing room with the recent shift, most notably Mandibuzz taking Umbreon's spotlight as the premier bulky Dark-type of the tier. This means Mismagius can opt for stronger coverage in the form of Thunderbolt to smack not only Mandibuzz, but many more relevant targets in the tier in one swoop, such as Milotic, Mega Blastoise, Feraligatr, Yanmega, & Moltres, the majority of which its closest competitor, Hoopa-C, cannot outspeed.
+2 252 SpA Mismagius Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 352-416 (83.2 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Mismagius Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Mandibuzz: 256-302 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mismagius: 150-176 (57.4 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Mismagius Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Milotic: 278-328 (70.5 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mismagius Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Milotic: 140-166 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(literally clean 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)

+2 252 SpA Mismagius Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Blastoise-Mega: 300-354 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mismagius Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Blastoise-Mega: 150-178 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mismagius Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 386-456 (100.7 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mismagius Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Yanmega: 268-316 (85.6 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Mismagius @ Ghostium Z / Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt

While Ghostium Z is a tempting nuke, with +2 Never-Ending Nightmare OHKOing things like Cresselia, Mega Steelix, Escavalier (if it doesn't Protect), Milotic after SR + Leftovers recovery, and the like, Colbur Berry is a perfectly serviceable option, allowing Mismagius to win against Mega Blastoise 1v1 and spinblock it, while also taking Knock Off / Foul Play from Mandibuzz, possibly permitting another Nasty Plot should Mandibuzz switch into the first Plot. Mismagius is definitely looking better in this meta atm.
 
Hey the new discussions for nominations definitely piqued my interest and from a lot of recent matches I've been observing and trends that I'm seeing as of late

Milotic S --> A+ Agree: Due to Milotic's overwhelming popularity as a blanket check to a large majority of the tier's attackers and set up sweepers, the tier has come up with a lot of answers to handle it. There's been a surge in the increase in grass types to which milotic lacking ice beam can't really touch and they've been able to abuse the free turns it gives such as rotom mow being able to defog, sub seed shaymin being able to leech seed or set up its substitute or roserade being able to set up spikes. Taunt toxic mandibuzz also completely shuts down milotic and other stallbreakers such as noivern have found niches completely shutting down non ice beam variants. Non ice beam variants lack refresh and are crippled by toxic which is quite common on a lot of pokemon. Even other pokemon like Nidoqueen can set up rocks and taunt milotic allowing a free switch into a mon that can abuse its passivity. Furthermore milotic is a very shaky answer to some z set up sweepers like bewear or salazzle that can nuke it out of the field. Milotic more often than not also relies on scald burns and misses to help it handle strong physical attackers like tyrantrum, bruxish or escavalier and isn't the most reliable answer to these mons. Overall Milotic is still an amazing answer to many mons and walls a good majority of the tier but its own popularity has led the tier to adapt to its presence very well and it's not as annoying as it was perhaps 3 weeks ago.

Honchkrow A- --> B+ Disagree: Honchkrow is a pokemon that has fallen in popularity for some time but I still feel it is a very threatening pokemon in the meta. Webs Honchkrow is still a very usable play-style and due to honchkrow's amazing offensive presence and great priority in sucker punch, it very much has the capacity to completely sweep teams. Dark and Flying STAB is largely unresisted by the tier and with moxie and webs up honchkrow becomes a real threat very fast. Honch is often notorious for killing itself and certain defensive mons like gligar and milotic recover spam which can render honch not as effective in sweeping but there are often various creative z sets honch can run such as z taunt to stop recover spam or z skystrike that offers a nuke that has little to no switch ins. Overall Honch isn't as popular as the other pokemon but shapes its own playstyle: krow webs and is a very threatening sweeper that easily has the capacity to overwhelm the tier.

Snorlax A- --> B+ Disagree: Papa Lax is another mon I feel definitely should not drop in the vr at this stage. Lax's main counters come in the form of milotic that can haze any curse boosts and taunt mandibuzz that shuts it down. Snorlax also has trouble vs strong physical attackers in the tier and can't touch steel and rock types without eq. However snorlax with its pure normal typing and thick fat provide a blanket check to many special attackers in the tier that struggle to break down papa lax. With specific lures to remove its checks, once curse lax gets going its difficult to stop and can often result in an endgame sweep. Banded lax is also a good bulky pursuit trapper for certain pokemon. Overall snorlax's viability has been hurt by the popularity of certain mons that shut it down but it still is a force to be reckoned with in the tier and is fine where it sits

Ninetales B --> B+ Agree: Ninetales in sun is a pretty good wallbreaker and with nasty plot and z sitting at a good speed tier warrants a rise. Specs overheat is also hard to switch into for some teams and with respectable special bulk, it can stomach a hit and retaliate back with z. 81 special attack isn't the greatest but nasty plot and drought make up for this.

Mismagius B --> B+ Agree: for the reasons outlined above
 
Last edited:
I guess being in the middle of a snowstorm is a good time to make a good first VR post, so here we go. I've teased at this post for a time so yeah, enjoy.

Golisopod C- -> A / A-

Realistically speaking, I know this demand won't be fully met but in my mind it deserves to be at least A- rank, if not A rank. There's a few viable sets goli can use but I'll discuss my favorite first. Banded golisopod OHKOs or does incredibly noteworthy damage to a large variety of our metagames most threatening offensive presences. To give some examples, I've provided some calcs below.

252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gardevoir: 331-391 (119.4 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Honchkrow: 393-463 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-10%: 312-367 (125.3 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 334-394 (127.9 - 150.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 470-554 (137.8 - 162.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 584-690 (171.2 - 202.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Mow: 444-524 (183.4 - 216.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow-Mega: 452-534 (140.8 - 166.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 351-414 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 357-420 (118.6 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHK
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Linoone: 351-414 (105 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Aqua Jet vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 318-374 (113.9 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Drill Run vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 396-468 (128.5 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Drill Run vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 306-360 (95 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aerodactyl: 296-350 (98.3 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 309-364 (95.6 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 283-334 (94 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Glalie-Mega: 283-334 (93.7 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sigilyph: 282-333 (98.9 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pangoro: 289-342 (87 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 270-318 (95.4 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 315-372 (97.8 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Linoone: 331-391 (99.1 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

it ohkos a couple of psy mons like espeon/bruxish/slowking as well but it's such overkill that you dont need band for those lol


252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Feraligatr: 235-277 (75.5 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 202-238 (67.5 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 204-240 (66.6 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 213-252 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Araquanid: 253-298 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ampharos-Mega: 226-267 (70.1 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 246-291 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 211-249 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mismagius: 178-210 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Do keep in mind that the calcs above are mostly a representation of first impression vs the offensive side of the metagame. Golisopod has a ton to offer beyond this already impressive collection of calcs. Below are some examples of how banded Golisopod effectively handles a collection of our tiers more viable walls.

252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 404-476 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO w/ lefties
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 206-246 (61.6 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Steelix-Mega: 188-224 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 534-630 (123.3 - 145.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 195-231 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 201-237 (47.4 - 55.8%) -- 22.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (it blocks roost essentially, though it'd also note that liquid cleanly 2hkos.)
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 188 HP / 128 Def Snorlax: 264-312 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO w/ lefties
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 312-368 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 354-416 (94.6 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery


One of the largest assets golisopod possesses is that threatening first impression is often enough to force a switch, which more often than not would be very heavily punished by liquidation if you predicted correctly (think gligar or steelix coming in to sponge a hit for gardevoir or virizion.) Switching from its terrifying offense to its surprisingly good defense, Golisopod can reasonably counter a surprising number of mons that are very prominent in the current meta. It's able to do this mostly because of 140 defensive stat it sports. Below are some calcs to exemplify this.

252+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 56-66 (16.9 - 19.9%) -- guaranteed 6HKO (keep in mind ada)
252+ Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 135-159 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (keep in mind ada)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 95-113 (28.7 - 34.1%) -- 2.1% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 32-38 (9.6 - 11.4%) -- possible 9HKO
36+ Atk Steelix-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 66-78 (19.9 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Mandibuzz Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 55-66 (16.6 - 19.9%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Virizion Stone Edge vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 128-152 (38.6 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 69-81 (20.8 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO


As you've probably guessed from many of these calcs, Golisopod can do well vs any of the archetypes the tier has to offer. +2 priority first impression easily dispatches of most offensive teams, and especially webs teams. The ability to threaten extremely hard hitting priority moves but also threaten extremely hard hitting water moves is something i've found to be very useful whenever playing balance as well. I'd probably say stall gives golisopod the toughest time, though liquidation rips through a good chunk of stalls prominent mons. Even on more offensive builds, people may switchin "resists" to first impression like ninetales or aerodactyl and find themselves 2hkoed.

One of the largest counterarguments to banded golisopod is "hurdurr banded fake out", though i'd argue that this really isn't an issue at all provided A) a semi-competent team is thrown together in which most things have an answer or B) if there is no clear counter, you're able to deduce ahead of time if clicking first impression is worth it or not -OR- you're able to simply figure out a sack that youd call a worthy trade ahead of time. However, another alternative to alleviate the woes of banded fake out can simply be to not run a banded set.

While I personally don't, many people favor an insect plate wielding golisopod, which remedies the pain being locked into first impression causes. You certainly lose out on a lot of power overall (especially your water moves) but are able to at least switch around movesets. This set also allows for spikes, so that's pretty cool.

Another counterargument for this mon is that the ability is too crippling, especially in the case of hazards. I agree it's crippling, hence why I wouldn't recommend running this mon w/o good hazard control, unless you were running HO and didn't care about golisopods HP too much. However, with good play and good hazard control, this thing isn't too hard to keep from bumping out of EE range.

Anyway in conclusion I can't for the life of me see why this mon hasn't caught on more, though I think the opinions around it have started to change for the better. Below are 5 replays from high-level recent tour games that use golisopod for a W.

Myself vs ChillShadow, SPL9 W6: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-351945
Myself vs Gingy, SPL9 W7: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-353514
Myself vs Windsong, SPL9 W9: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-356365
Arifeen vs ChillShadow, SPL9 W9: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-357317
Myself vs lighthouses, RU Seasonal Winners R8: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-709901888
 
Last edited:
I guess being in the middle of a snowstorm is a good time to make a good first VR post, so here we go. I've teased at this post for a time so yeah, enjoy.

Golisopod C- -> A / A-

Realistically speaking, I know this demand won't be fully met but in my mind it deserves to be at least A- rank, if not A rank. There's a few viable sets goli can use but I'll discuss my favorite first. Banded golisopod OHKOs or does incredibly noteworthy damage to a large variety of our metagames most threatening offensive presence. To give some examples, I've provided some calcs below.

252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gardevoir: 331-391 (119.4 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Honchkrow: 393-463 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-10%: 312-367 (125.3 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 334-394 (127.9 - 150.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 470-554 (137.8 - 162.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 584-690 (171.2 - 202.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Mow: 444-524 (183.4 - 216.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow-Mega: 452-534 (140.8 - 166.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 351-414 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 357-420 (118.6 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHK
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Linoone: 351-414 (105 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Aqua Jet vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 318-374 (113.9 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Drill Run vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 396-468 (128.5 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Drill Run vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 306-360 (95 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aerodactyl: 296-350 (98.3 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 309-364 (95.6 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 283-334 (94 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Glalie-Mega: 283-334 (93.7 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sigilyph: 282-333 (98.9 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pangoro: 289-342 (87 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 270-318 (95.4 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 315-372 (97.8 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Linoone: 331-391 (99.1 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

it ohkos a couple of psy mons like espeon/bruxish/slowking as well but it's such overkill that you dont need band for those lol


252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Feraligatr: 235-277 (75.5 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 202-238 (67.5 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 204-240 (66.6 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 213-252 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Araquanid: 253-298 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ampharos-Mega: 226-267 (70.1 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 246-291 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 211-249 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mismagius: 178-210 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Do keep in mind that the calcs above are mostly a representation of first impression vs the offensive side of the metagame. Golisopod has a ton to offer beyond this already impressive collection of calcs. Below are some examples of how banded Golisopod effectively handles a collection of our tiers more viable walls.

252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 404-476 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO w/ lefties
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 206-246 (61.6 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Steelix-Mega: 188-224 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 534-630 (123.3 - 145.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 195-231 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 201-237 (47.4 - 55.8%) -- 22.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (it blocks roost essentially, though it'd also note that liquid cleanly 2hkos.)
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 188 HP / 128 Def Snorlax: 264-312 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO w/ lefties
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 312-368 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 354-416 (94.6 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery


One of the largest assets golisopod possesses is that threatening first impression is often enough to force a switch, which more often than not would be very heavily punished by liquidation if you predicted correctly (think gligar or steelix coming in to sponge a hit for gardevoir or virizion.) Switching from its terrifying offense to its surprisingly good defense, Golisopod can reasonably counter a surprising number of mons that are very prominent in the current meta. It's able to do this mostly because of 140 defensive stat it sports. Below are some calcs to exemplify this.

252+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 56-66 (16.9 - 19.9%) -- guaranteed 6HKO (keep in mind ada)
252+ Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 135-159 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (keep in mind ada)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 95-113 (28.7 - 34.1%) -- 2.1% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 32-38 (9.6 - 11.4%) -- possible 9HKO
36+ Atk Steelix-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 66-78 (19.9 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Mandibuzz Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 55-66 (16.6 - 19.9%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Virizion Stone Edge vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 128-152 (38.6 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 69-81 (20.8 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO


As you've probably guessed from many of these calcs, Golisopod can do well vs any of the archetypes the tier has to offer. +2 priority first impression easily dispatches of most offensive teams, and especially webs teams. The ability to threaten extremely hard hitting priority moves but also threaten extremely hard hitting water moves is something i've found to be very useful whenever playing balance as well. I'd probably say stall gives golisopod the toughest time, though liquidation rips through a good chunk of stalls prominent mons. Even on more offensive builds, people may switchin "resists" to first impression like ninetales or aerodactyl and find themselves 2hkoed.

One of the largest counterarguments to banded golisopod is "hurdurr banded fake out", though i'd argue that this really isn't an issue at all provided A) a semi-competent team is thrown together in which most things have an answer or B) if there is no clear counter, you're able to deduce ahead of time if clicking first impression is worth it or not -OR- you're able to simply figure out a sack that youd call a worthy trade ahead of time. However, another alternative to alleviate the woes of banded fake out can simply be to not run a banded set.

While I personally don't, many people favor an insect plate wielding golisopod, which remedies the pain being locked into first impression causes. You certainly lose out on a lot of power overall (especially your water moves) but are able to at least switch around movesets. This set also allows for spikes, so that's pretty cool.

Another counterargument for this mon is that the ability is too crippling, especially in the case of hazards. I agree it's crippling, hence why I wouldn't recommend running this mon w/o good hazard control, unless you were running HO and didn't care about golisopods HP too much. However, with good play and good hazard control, this thing isn't too hard to keep from bumping out of EE range.

Anyway in conclusion I can't for the life of me see why this mon hasn't caught on more, though I think the opinions around it have started to change for the better. Below are 5 replays from high-level recent tour games that use golisopod for a W.

Myself vs ChillShadow, SPL9 W6: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-351945
Myself vs Gingy, SPL9 W7: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-353514
Myself vs Windsong, SPL9 W9: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-356365
Arifeen vs ChillShadow, SPL9 W9: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-357317
Myself vs lighthouses, RU Seasonal Winners R8: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-709901888
Okay first off, C- to A-/A is way to high of a shift. Secondly, once Golisopod is locked into First Impression then they get a free opportunity to setup, place down hazards, gain momentum, and even remove your hazards. It is also really slow and let’s in a common array of attackers like Virizion, Moltres, and Yanmega which nobody wants getting a free switch in. C or C+ rank is more fitting than being ranked along side Mega-Blastoise or Roserade. But I would like to make a nomination of my own.

Cloyster B > B+
Registeel and Doublade who once gave Cloyster issues have lost usage. It gets to setup on non-Superpower Feraligatr, Zygarde 10%, Flygon, even Freeze Dry Mega-Glalie. Supposed counters to it like Milotic, Mega-Blastoise, and Bronzong fail to stop Cloyster on its tracks

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 322-379 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 328-387 (100.9 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 160-190 (47.3 - 56.2%) -- approx. 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Bronzong fails to OHKO and with rocks Cloyster has a 81.6% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -2 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 175-207 (72.6 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Cloyster is a mon that teams should be careful vs. Cause a mistake can lead to a victory for Cloyster
 
Making a VR post before was fun and well-received, so I have a moment to make another. This time i'll just focus on the discussion points, along w/ a few other of my opinions within the current state of the meta. I'll use hide tags for each mon, though the points won't be nearly as fleshed out as the golisopod post I made.

Milotic S --> A. Drop this thing to A rank tbh, it's rlly not the special and the meta has developed to a point where any noteworthy team has a plethora of answers for it. I can't remember many times in recent memory where milotic was anywhere near the wall it once was. Grasses especially are potentially the most potent of mons in the tier rn, and the increase of anti-milo measures like sub kingdra and toxicroak, among other things. It still obviously performs vs a number of threats in the tier, such as most of our great waters and grounds, but it definitely isn't as impenetrable as it was even a month or 2 ago imo.

Honchkrow A- -> B. This thing is honestly the worst mon in the A ranks atm, I don't know why or how it's here but it fails to me in every imaginable way in the current meta. I'd like to imagine it did best on offense but I feel like it's completely outclassed by other mons both in terms of priority and also breaking through teams while remaining viable. I don't like how it struggles vs quite a bit of our common walls, and its speedtier is incredibly poor vs a ton of the meta given the wet paper bulk it possesses. Sucker doesn't hit anywhere near hard enough to make up for the terrible speedstat, and LO bravebird kills honchkrow faster than it kills most other mons. It just doesn't have redeeming qualities to me.

Snorlax A- -> A-. Lax to me is still threatening enough to avoid warranting a drop at all. While the standard restLax is beaten by common threats like taunt gligar/mandi, m-lix and haze milo, it definitely has a place on teams as something that easily absorbs most special attacks in the tier and can dish out ok immediate damage in return. I think it does best vs more offensive teams generally speaking, but it can win in most matchups. BandLax can be a cool surprise too, though I defo think the lack in bulk and recovery makes it not as valuable. It's one of the few mons in the tier that can hit stuff decently hard while eating hits from the likes of yanmega/specs garde/salazzle, which is pretty cool.

Ninetales B --> A-. Ninetales to me has proven to be an incredibly formidable fire type in the tier atm. Z-Fireblast in the sun punishes a lot of decently bulky mons, and solar beam and psyshock hit most of what fire blast doesnt. While I personally prefer nasty plot w/ z-move, specs ninetales also can be pretty threatening, as specs overheat in the sun is no joke. Hitting 328 speed is a pretty acceptable benchmark atm, and drought helping it better take on waters like milo and ajet users is very handy. It's seen success in both SPL and the current seasonal, and I can't imagine leaving this mon outside of the A ranks.

Mismagius B --> B+. I agree w/ most of the post above on mismagius, and I feel Will-O-Wisp hex is a very cool set it can be running if taunt isn't your thing. Z-elec move is also a possibility, as punishing mandibuzz harder can be fairly appreciated for later game mismagius. Will-o annoys would-be physical dark users (which is pretty much all dark moves in ru atm) and taunt is great for stallbreaking in general. I can't see a reason why this thing shouldn't rise, and I feel it fulfills a pretty unique role in the current meta.

Noivern C+ --> B-. I think this mon is a lot better than the credit it receives. 379 is an excellent speed tier to hit, and the fire coverage+hurricane/draco covers most the meta. Taunt is especially useful since milo/mandibuzz seem like the most likely would-be counters. Hardly any threat hits above 379 unboosted atm, and the grass/water resist it gives also seems super beneficial in the meta atm, as it's able to switch in to some of the more offensive mons in the meta if you usually predict correctly, or otherwise are just checking it. Dragon/Flying/Fire hits just about everything, and frisk can be a pretty cool ability in a meta where so many threatening mons can run a multitude of sets and items.

Espeon B- --> B-. I don't really see the point of it rising. Not a lot to say about it, I just don't find it incredibly threatening in any way atm. Maybe with a stored power set vs stall it has use, but rn it's outclasses by other psychics. M-bounce is cool and all but I find this thing annoying to fit on good teams and have it not get carried. Not a ton to say about it.

I'm not going to make a huge fuss about this one but I also support cress dropping. It's such a do-nothing mon lol. A- like eifo described in his post seems pretty fair.
Tyrantrum A- -> S. This thing 2hkos the entire meta with band and is easily one of our most threatening immediate breakers available. Even lix/registeel arent counters if you correctly predict the usually obvious switchin and click eq/superpower. Gligar and Bronzong are 2hkoed by Jolly Banded headsmash, and adamant is even more ridiculous. It boasts pretty ok typing for the meta too, most notably checking our tiers prominent fire types in a devastating fashion. However, if you wanted speed control, scarf tyrant ohkos most of the offensive side of the metagame while outspeeding it, as outrage/head smash from a non-cb tyrantrum is absolutely nothing to sneer at. Both of these sets are premier sets in the meta, though you can also use stuff like rock polish w/ z-rockium/z-dragonium to further innovate this already impeccable mon. I get flak from the ru discord experts on occasion for my opinions, but this thing really is the best mon in the current meta. It does it all.
 
Last edited:

MrAldo

♦♣♥♠
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Nice post.

The Golisopod and Tyrantrum mons are somewhat pretentious (especially the Golisopod ones) but I do agree they should rise some ranks tbh. Golisopod is objectively one of the most annoying Pokemon to pivot into since bug/water are surprisingly efficient coverage on its own, but middling speed tier, over reliance on first impression (not necessarily a bad thing but combined with the rocks weakness and how some fire types can switch into it if the user has the balls to do so) and stacking waters like Mega Blastoise isnt a really good idea so how grasses are such good mons atm.
From C- to A- make the nomination look like somewhat of a joke but I do think Golisopod should rise to at least C+ as a start, then it can continue climbing.


On the topic of Tyrantrum I do agree it should rise, not to S tho, but I will add Gardevoir to this nomination cause I believe both share the same positive traits that make such prominent picks in the metagame. These 2 are perhaps the best scarfers you can put on teams tbh, bar like Flygon but that provides more utility than power, since they can revenge kill a ton of prominent threats in the metagame pretty reliably providing leasure to teambuilds that want to handle threats as better as possible. Choice Specs Garde and Choice Band Tyrantrum are incredibly potent wallbreakers atm, taking advantage of the rise of Mandibuzz since these are 2 wallbreakers that can press its moves without hardly any drawbacks. Bronzong is prominent but it isnt a head smash switch-in since it does a shitton to it and Garde can nail it on the switch with shadow ball since Specs Garde has like 2 filler moveslots to fit whatever the team needs. Pursuit trappers like Escavalier and Drapion having more value nowadays just make these 2 better.

Both really solid scarfers and potent wallbreakers, provide a ton to many teams in terms of reliably revenge killing things and can be seen on many teams due to how reliable they are. I think both should rise to A tbh. Really good mons and they should rise to reflect that.

I agree Milotic should drop, but not to A. While teams are far more prepared for Milotic than before, it is still a prominent defensive threat you really need to keep in mind when you add the offensive components to your team. If we just take into the mono scald sets then it can be a lot easier to handle and could guarantee a further drop, but other options like scald + ice beam/dragon tail can really change your gameplan of switching your grass or dragon safely and it can use a lot of further exploration so not so confident in dropping it that away from the top.

Agreed with the rest of the points tho, maybe not too much with Honch but it is pretty matchup reliant so cant really go against it dropping. And dont drop Snorlax, for the love of God. It is still good and not so one dimensional >:[
 

termi

formerly Robert Alfons
is a Tiering Contributor
Ok I'll make a couple noms as well:

A -> A+: One of the best offensive mons in the meta and by far the best offensive hazard removal in the meta, Mega Stoise is indispensable on many a offense team (best playstyle rn). It basically has 3 STAB moves which together are resisted by next to nothing, and then it has the option to run Ice Beam to hit Grass- and Dragon-types (and Toxicroak) harder. Playing around Stoise basically amounts to having one of the few bulky mons that aren't weak to one of its moves or are too fat to give a shit anyway (SpD Cress is dumb) or, and this is more common, trying to get your Grass-type in on the Scald/Spin. Milotic falling somewhat out of favor and the meta generally becoming more offensive has been great for it since this really reduced the amount of teams that can take advantage of it. More importantly, Rapid Spin is so good atm, Yanmega and Moltres are two of the most dangerous mons around and both require reliable hazard removal to work, but also love having hazards up on the opponent's side, and the momentum loss of having to Defog + getting your rocks back up is really awful, so I'd say Stoise is practically necessary on that type of team and is the main reason why these two are so good. The meta's just really working in its favor, it's a top 5 offensive mon imo and its ranking should reflect that.

A- -> A+: Shaymin is a friend. Scarf remains decent thanks to good speed tier, fairly spammable STAB + Healing WIsh utility, but I think it really shines with Grassium Z Synthesis and SubSeed sets. Both sets are very durable, which is great since it can consistently act as a counter to Milotic and a check to many prominent threats like Stoise, Zydog, Rotom-Mow, and Rhyperior. Grassium is very customizable thanks to Shaymin's great movepool and takes full advantage of Seed Flare's frequent SpD drops by threatening even the bulkiest mons with Bloom Doom when they're at -2, its speed and power also give it ample opportunity to click Synthesis and stay healthy and dangerous throughout the match. SubSeed might be the most annoying thing in the meta, slowly chipping away at common switchins like Bronzong with Leech Seed and Seed Flare, softening them up for cleaners. I think the combination of Shaymin's great speed tier, defensive utility, durability, and versatility make it one of the most prominent offensive threats in the meta, and much like Stoise it really appreciates the meta's more offensive slant.

A+ -> A: Don't get me wrong, this thing is hella threatening, but I feel the combination of SR weakness and lack of defensive utility makes it somewhat annoying to build around and it's not so amazing that it fully compensates for the constraints it puts on the builder. It misses out on a lot of OHKOs so it requires opposing teams to be weakened before it can become really threatening, and in addition to that we have a decent amount of bulky gluemons that can keep it at bay (SpD Mandi, Lax, P2, Milotic to some extent), as well as a few 4x Bug resists that keep it from spamming Bug Buzz brainlessly. It's definitely something you need to prep for, but now that it's recognized as a major threat it's also something that any decent build is prepared for.

Previous noms to comment on:
Fuck incrementalism, Golisopod might not necessarily be an A rank mon (although maybe it is!) but it's definitely good enough to be B rank at the very least and it has had plenty of success to back that statement up. It's time to stop being pussies and rank shit where it belongs.

Tyrantrum should absolutely move up to A+ at least, but S is honestly the place it deserves. CB is the most dangerous wallbreaker in the meta, CB Head Smash is so disgustingly strong that unless your opponent rocks a MegaLix, Bewear, Doublade (lol) or Chesnaught (lol), you have no reason not to spam Head Smash, and if they do, you can still 2HKO all of these with the appropriate move. Scarf still has a stupid amount of power and terrorizes offense and balance alike as a result, it's one of the most splashable offensive mons in the meta because it's hard to take advantage of due to the raw power of Head Smash and checks hard-to-check Fire-types as Natalie mentioned. The meta has been incredibly in its favor ever since some of its best switchins plummeted in usage, MegaLix is the only major problem but that thing's not nearly as omnipresent as when it was around last gen, often being passed up in favor of the squishier Bronzong.

Gardevoir is absolutely a monster atm and deserves A or even A+ rank, Scarf is very common and for good reason, since it revenge kills so much and provides utility with Healing Wish and Trick, but Specs might be even more dangerous since very few teams have solid responses to its STAB combo (MegaLix doesn't really wanna switch in more than once) and it's just hella powerful. CM Z-move sets are no slouch either.

Milotic should be A+, it's still too splashable and reliable to be any lower imo, it's definitely not worse than Cress, but it's also been usurped by Mandibuzz for the title of best defensive gluemon and teams have started being more prepared for it, using non-Scarf Grass-types, Toxicroak, or more niche options like Focus Energy Kingdra. Taunt Toxic Mandibuzz also fucks it up although that thing doesn't appreciate a burn.

I generally agree with Nat's post, especially on the topic of Ninetales since Specs is really difficult to switch into if you lack a very bulky Fire resist like Lax, Missy also definitely deserves the rise since it also appreciates a more offensive meta and has a great speed tier, Espy and Noivern I'm ambivalent on. I haven't seen a Honchkrow in ages, willing to consider that A- is fine for it if I see it putting in work but it's kinda awkward to fit in this meta so it probably deserves a drop.
 
hi, thoughts
A+ > A-
Cress is a great Pokemon because of its bulk, but in a meta with Steelix, Bronzong, and Milotic it generally can be only a pivot at best. Furthermonre this mon is a liabilty for SR setters and free switchins for scary breakers like Escavelier. The reason to use this mon is for the utility of checking so many things at once, but using it opens up the team to a lot of vulnerabilities and is a momentum suck in general. Cress is just to mixed of a bag to be A+, and should only be patched on teams that need its bulk to blanket check a variety of things, hence the drop.

B > C+
When was the last time you saw this thing rofl. While it still has potential to break, the tier has numerous other breakers with better matchups in the metagame and more defensive utility.

B+ > B-
While we're talking about psychic types that need to drop, this thing has basically fallen out of usage and Mandibuzz makes its job a lot harder. Virizion being one of the premier Grass-types in the tier doesn't help it out either, since its hardly an effective switchin.

A > A+/S
This mon is so good right now, simply as a function of how versatile it can be to fit the needs of a team and suprise its switchins, and the defensive utility it automatically offers teams. The rest has been said in greater detail above.

Keep it at A
The metagame has already adapted to this with a resurgence of Rhyperior and Doublade. While it still is very hard to switch into, its poor special bulk and slow speed make it hard to position.

C- >B+
For the record, I think saying a mon can't move up to "x" rank because its "y" rank is dumb, the VR can be very wrong and the meta can adapt very quickly. That being said I think B+ is a good fit for Golisopod, as its annoyed by hazards and very prediction reliant and thus a somewhat risky pokemon to use. Nevertheless, as has been demonstrated, it can be tremendously rewarding and annoying to deal with.

B > A-
This is one of the few overhyped mons that live up to the hype, being insanely hard to switch into. Really hard, however, to fit on a team and ttrum's resurgence is annoying for it, thus A- ranks seems good for it presently.

A- > A+
This thing sports insane utility, checking fast sweepers and using healing wish to allow a team to function much more flexibly. Being hard walled by Steel-types isnt that much of a problem, since Steelix gets worn down very easily by the plethora of things it has to check in the meta, and Bronzong hates getting tricked. This thing is highly splash able and never fails to provide great utility.
 
A > A+/S
This mon is so good right now, simply as a function of how versatile it can be to fit the needs of a team and suprise its switchins, and the defensive utility it automatically offers teams. The rest has been said in greater detail above.
I agree with a shaymin rise - not only the offensive capabtabilities are there but also a huge supportive one. Being able not only to offensively pressure mons with a very good movepool such as epower, seed flare and hp fire / psychic but it is also able to have supportive measures, such as status opposing mons, tail wind and healing wish giving a offensive mon another chance to break thru the opposing team. I think A+/S is a great ranking for it.
B+ > B-
While we're talking about psychic types that need to drop, this thing has basically fallen out of usage and Mandibuzz makes its job a lot harder. Virizion being one of the premier Grass-types in the tier doesn't help it out either, since its hardly an effective switchin.
I dont see that thing doing alot recently. Also it has to be worried about stone edge virizion. Buzz does the job better. Agree on a drop.

B > A-
This is one of the few overhyped mons that live up to the hype, being insanely hard to switch into. Really hard, however, to fit on a team and ttrum's resurgence is annoying for it, thus A- ranks seems good for it presently.
I think this mon should rise, it is not even hard to switchin to, but it also can cripple down physical mons with WoW and other utility moves. Z Nasty Plot is scary and a fire blast with z under sun hits everything pretty hard, especially after +2, if you're down for it z-solar beam also could be run to break tanky waters better.
 
1522270736174.png
Shaymin A- -> A+/S
Shaymin is a powerful mon in this meta, it can easily check most defensive and offensive mons due to the low speed of RU. The mons that it is checked offensively by, it can bypass or stop from setting up (EP Salazzle,Psychic roserade and so on, HP rock can be used for Moltres and Yanmega but it isn't that viable) and can bypass most steel mons that can wall it defensively with it's great coverage, only mons that it can't beat that wall it are defensive moltres,escav and bronzong (but HP fire can be used for the last two and Defensive moltres isn't that common). It can provide great utility in Healing wish and tailwind and can have longevity with rest and Synthesis which alongside natural cure let it be a menace the entire match, This thing is fantastic and should at least rise to A+ as A- is a great diservice to the fantastic mon that is shaymin.

1522271658736.png
Gardevoir A- -> A+/S
Yet again another powerful mon that has few checks in the tier that don't enjoy it's coverage (trick and Focus blast) It's checks can be easily worn down and it has few offensive checks aside from pokemon like Mega steelix and escavalier which are rather easy to wear down anyways. It has great support with Dbond,healing wish and trick. This mon is splashable to a fantastic extent and A- is not where this thing should be.

Now for a nom of my own.

1522271192157.png
Moltres A -> A+
Moltres has become even better of a wallbreaker due to the rise of doublade,bronzong and a few others. It's sheer power is as potent as ever allowing it to KO most mons from full health and Flyuim Z is capable of leaving no mon alive. The defensive set has also become very potent due to the rise of shaymin and Gardevoir since it can take hits from both (although it dislikes a trick).While Rypherior and tyrantrum having a rise in usage (Tyrantrum in paritcular is rather terrible for moltres) it still manages to thrive against most teams since the mons that can beat it such as blastoise M can be picked off after a bit with hurricane, finding a mon to switch in is not easy since there is few reliable ways of beating it due to the low speed of RU. The meta has been rather kind to Moltres Recently and I find that A+ is much more suitable due to the lack of mons in the meta who can handle tres since most teams opt to not prepare for it. (although I am 80% sure i'm missing something so i'm open to disagreement)
 

Felixx

I'm back.
Goodra: C+ to B-
Goodra insane amount of coverage allows it to essentially, with good prediction, destroy defensive cores such as Bronzong/M-Steelix + Milotic, or Gligar + Bronzong (now I am basing my argument around the Specs set, since Banded is ass and has problems with Gligar and M-Steelix). Goodra can also switch into the rising Shaymin, and due to sap sipper it is one of the few switchins to leech seed + air slash sets, and can also get free hits off against M-Blastiose. Futhermore, Goodra enjoys the reduced usage of Umbreon (competition w Mandibuzz), Cress and M-Aboma (both Bronzong).

A few calcs to show its effectiveness:
252+ SpA Blastoise-Mega Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 158-186 (49 - 57.7%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
(This is modest and ice beam is actually an uncommon coverage move)

+2 252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 195-231 (60.5 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(play around Acid Downpour)

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 75-90 (23.2 - 27.9%) -- 82.6% chance to 4HKO
(strongest hit Shaymin can go for unless your running HP Ice on a LO set lol)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Milotic: 255-301 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Milotic: 127-151 (32.2 - 38.3%) -- 1.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

64.7 + 32.2 - 6 + 12 = 102.9 (-6 is lefties and +12 is rocks, so no need to predict and T-Bolt if rocks are up)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 295-348 (88.3 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 228-270 (67.4 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix-Mega: 262-310 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Last edited:

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
is a Pre-Contributor
I'd like to throw in my hat in the ring on the whole Golisopod discussion.
C- >B+
For the record, I think saying a mon can't move up to "x" rank because its "y" rank is dumb, the VR can be very wrong and the meta can adapt very quickly. That being said I think B+ is a good fit for Golisopod, as its annoyed by hazards and very prediction reliant and thus a somewhat risky pokemon to use. Nevertheless, as has been demonstrated, it can be tremendously rewarding and annoying to deal with.
I agree with this reasoning. The whole idea of VR changes happening in small increments is stupid. In today's metagame, changes happen super fast, and new techs and sets can be discovered that propel a Pokemon from obscure and mediocre to common and effective (see the rise of Tornadus-T in OU for a prime example of this). A viability ranking is supposed to reflect community consensus on premier mons in the metagame, and this is hampered by slow changes which aren't needed.

But with that said, does Golisopod fall into the same camp? Is it really a hidden gem, or is it just overhyped? I took to the ladder to find out. The answer? Yup, it's strong as hell. I usually try my best not to regurgitate points when making these kinds of posts, but man oh man, First Impression is whack. It just forces so many switches, most of which can be nailed by Liquidation. And if you get worn down, just throw out Band Leech Life to gain that HP back. And don't you dare bring up Emergency Exit as a reason not to raise it higher, for, in my experience, EE rarely matters in practice. In fact, I would even argue that it can actually be helpful in certain situations, such as allowing Golisopod to cuck U-turn and allowing easier RKing for certain sweepers without Golisopod itself having to go down.

So yeah, Golisopod to B, B+ or A-, also pls council don't be afraid to rise many ranks
 
Last edited:

phantom

is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
RU Leader
Ranking updates:

Milotic S --> A
Honchkrow A- --> B+
Golisopod C- --> B+ (yw Nat)
Tyrantrum A- --> A+
Gardevoir A- --> A
Ninetales B --> A-
Mismagius B --> B+
Noivern C+ --> B-
Shaymin A- --> A+
Yanmega A+ --> A
Cresselia A+ --> A-
Nidoqueen A --> A-
Lycanroc-Dusk Unranked --> added to C+

Reasoning:

Nidoqueen moved down because it struggles against a lot of current metagame trends. It has become increasingly less useful in its given role due to the immense competition and the fact that various hazard removers and defensive staples have decent matchups against it. It's not as easy to fit on a team as it once was.

Lycanroc-Dusk was added to C+ preliminarily due to its potential as a suicide lead and sweeper; however, it's not very easy to fit onto a team and struggles immensely vs much of the current meta.

Discussion Points:

Blastoise-mega A --> A+
Moltres A --> A-
Zygarde-10% A --> A-
Froslass B --> C+
 
Wanted to give my thoughts on a few of the new discussion points
Blastoise-Mega A--> A+ Agree

This mon's firepower is extremely high, being able of running a wide array of coverage moves in Dark Pulse, Ice Beam & Aura Sphere makes it extremely threatening to opposing teams, carrying utility in rapid spin gives role compression and it's also valuable, while it may struggle agaisnt opposing special defensive walls (Goodra, Florges or Umbreon) it has the coverage to deal with them and hit the tier for a high amount of damage.
Moltres A --> A- Disagree
Moltres is one of the most fearsome wallbreakers in the tier, Fire/Flying is just a really good STAB combination offensively that gives little to know switch-ins in this tier besides specially defensive pokemon (in which moltres can u turn agaisnt to gain momentum), while the prevelance of rocks hurts it a lot, the myriad of effectives deffogers and how well it's distributed along the tier (Mandibuzz, Both rotom form, Sigilyph, etc.) makes it a bit easier to fit on a team, overall, i don't think it deserves to drop.
 
Blastoise-Mega A--> A+ Agree

This mon's firepower is extremely high, being able of running a wide array of coverage moves in Dark Pulse, Ice Beam & Aura Sphere makes it extremely threatening to opposing teams, carrying utility in rapid spin gives role compression and it's also valuable, while it may struggle agaisnt opposing special defensive walls (Goodra, Florges or Umbreon) it has the coverage to deal with them and hit the tier for a high amount of damage.

I agree on a Mega Blastoise rise. It has the bulk to withstand moves. It supports the team pretty well with rapid spinning hazards like webs away. Has a a large viable movepool to profit from and can fit on imho alot of playstyles.


Moltres A --> A- Disagree
Moltres is one of the most fearsome wallbreakers in the tier, Fire/Flying is just a really good STAB combination offensively that gives little to know switch-ins in this tier besides specially defensive pokemon (in which moltres can u turn agaisnt to gain momentum), while the prevelance of rocks hurts it a lot, the myriad of effectives deffogers and how well it's distributed along the tier (Mandibuzz, Both rotom form, Sigilyph, etc.) makes it a bit easier to fit on a team, overall, i don't think it deserves to drop.

I disagree on a drop, i used moltres alot in sun and i think it can hit really hard with z moves. Has helpful utility moves aviable aswell just as u-turn, wow and defog. His Stabs are excellent and 125 base spatt isnt something to underestimate. Moltres is a threat to definetly prep for when you build a RU team. I think it should stay at A.
 

NaCl

030
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
It's not in the discussion points but..

| 17 | Salazzle | 8 | 12.50% | 12.50% |
from rupl stats, but I dont think its only about this tournament

My question is: is she still worth S rank? The meta right now seen a raise in popularity of a lot of Salazzle checks (Im seeing a lot more of Flygons, Tyrantrum, Rhyperior, Dragalge and Snorlax lately) and the mons that once were setup fodders for it are becoming unused (like Chesnaught and Florges) or are adapting to face it (Psychic/EQ on Bronzong, sometimes even Heatproof, Extrasensory on Roserade, EP/Psychic on Shaymin) making her life way harder, stats speak for themselves, teams are generally overprep for Salazzle, and it became harder to splash in a team effectively. Her poor defenses and hazard weakness doesn't help and just make it easier to revengekill after some chip damage even with neutral or resisted moves, and so way easier to contain. I'm not saying its a bad mon by any means, just maybe shes not worth anymore the S rank, also because of the raising competition with Ninetales as a wallbreaker, that despite being slower (and so, way less effective against offensive teams) and generally weaker, thanks to drought and Solar Beam can have easier time against water types and can deal better with some of the more reliable Salazzle checks.

Should go to A+ in my opinion
 
ok so this might be a controversial post (although it shouldn't be)

Quagsire C --> D

Quagsire used to be run on stall because it has access to the ability Unaware, which ignores boosts from other mons. Otherwise its moveset and stats are generally subpar, meaning it loses to strong attacks such as zmoves and especially special attacks. Theres where Pyukumuku comes in, Pyukumuku has great defensive stats with 55/130/130 being really bulky. Pyukumuku doesn't get access to any offensive attacks, making it look bad at a first glance, but it does get Soak + Toxic basically allowing it to damage any mon except mons like Gligar (Immunity) and Toxicroak (Dry Skin), it also has a hard time dealing with CurseLax as it can just rest off any damage taken. One huge problem Pyukumuku has are Taunt mons, such as Salazzle and Mismagius and also Substitute sweepers, like Decidueye and Hoopa the latter two being bad right now. Pyukumuku has some really interesting options in the 4th slot however, including but not exclusive to, Taunt (for curselax), Spite (for sub users and Toxicroak), Gastro Acid (for mold breaker mons like Pangoro), Counter to have something to hit taunt ss barbaracle, Rest to be able to pp stall and also to get rid of status.

SD Feraligatr
Salazzle (although if taunt pyuku can't either)
Honchkrow
Bewear (Z)
Any special sweeper
Virizion (pyuku can win if at full and Viriz has used its zmove)
any z-move sweeper
 

Sage

Hoes Mad
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
Hi! This is my first post on the RU subforum, and I just wanted to preface this by saying it's nice to meet you all, and I hope to get to know more of you in the future. I've recently started playing RU, joining stuff like USUM RU cup and just generally hanging out in the room, so wanted to give my thoughts on a mon I've seen in RUPL and from my own personal experiences.

medicham.gif


Medicham: Unranked --> Ranked (C+ seems fair at first glance)

Cresselia and Necrozma (sort of for the latter). I have now listed all defensive counterplay in the RU tier there is to Medicham. It rips apart common defensive cores seen on Stall and Balance teams, can get free kills once brought out against anything on Bulky Offense that it outspeeds, and when used with Webs isn't even horrible vs Offense. Fighting / Psychic stab is fantastic, when most of the Psychics in the tier are either neutral to one of your STABs (Bronzong) or aren't bulky enough to take even resisted hits (literally all the other ones.) High Jump Kick does half to gardevoir, a 4x resist. It also has a Bullet Punch to not be completely useless vs faster threats like Aerodactyl and Mega Glalie, as well as niche options like Fake Out.

That being said, it does come with some distinct weaknesses. It offers almost no defensive utility to a team, at most switching in once or twice on a passive wall. It can struggle in matchups vs. Hyper Offense where most of the mons can outspeed and ko it before it does anything back. Cresselia is basically impossible to break through, and for Bronzong (while you do kill it) Protect must be played around to avoid crash damage. These weaknesses hold it back from being as consistent as other meta wall breakers are.

I've been using it on a fun team that revolves around CB Escavalier checking Psychic types for it and Pursuit trapping, Shaymin providing Healing Wish support / speed control, and a DD Zygarde to clean once Medicham and Escav have punched holes in the enemy team. It won me a game in my R2 cup series, but unfortunately Medicham didn't have to do anything so I didn't post the replay.


Medicham @ Life Orb
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch

Escavalier @ Choice Band
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Drill Run
- Pursuit

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Water Pulse

Shaymin @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash
- Earth Power
- Healing Wish

Zygarde-10% @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed

Thanks for reading, can't wait to play and learn more about RU!
 
I'm not yet convinced that Mega Blastoise is worthy of A+. By running Rapid Spin, it has to go without one of its four excellent potential moves (STAB attack, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, Aura Sphere), and you will regret your choice of exemption sooner or later. Many teams that aren't super offensive have at least one of Cresselia, Bronzong, Registeel, Snorlax, Umbreon, and Mandibuzz; these Pokemon are threatened by only one of Blastoise's attacks, so if your Blastoise lacks it, good luck wallbreaking. Not helping matters is that teams that feature the aforementioned mons usually have the sustainability to keep setting up hazards, thus forcing the easily weakened Blastoise to keep switching in and ultimately fail to outlast the competition. Against particularly offensive teams, Blastoise's lack of recovery limits it to only a handful of turns on the battlefield, forcing you to choose between spinning or dealing significant damage. What I'm trying to say is that what Blastoise can do isn't on the same level of effectiveness as the Pokemon already in A+. It doesn't have overwhelming power like Tyrantrum or a set-up Feraligatr, nor does it perform its utility with the same consistency as Gligar and Mega Steelix. It's still at home in A, with other Pokemon that have well defined roles and outstanding properties held back by one or two major problems.


A- -> B+/B
Mega Abomasnow is much too niche a pick these days to justify A-. While Ice Shard is great and it can tear through a fair number of cores, its Speed, many weaknesses, and direct competition from other Mega Evolutions and wallbreakers mandate that its team is built around it. All of the other Pokemon in A- fit on teams way more easily with the exception of Ninetales, which still exceeds Aboma by not being a Mega and having actual Speed and Drought.
 
Rotom-Heat: B- to B/B+

I feel like Rotom-H is a really underrated mon at the moment. If we take a look at the viability ranking, one should realize that Fire/Electric is a pretty hot type combination right now. With the arrival of Mandibuzz and Blastoise-M, Rotom gained two more pokemon to hit for great damage with it's electric attacks. Other than that, Rotom-H does well against multiple other top tier threads right now: Gligar, Steelix, non HP Rock Shaymin and Yanmega, Bronzong, Moltres, Milotic, non scarf Tyrantrum just to name a few of them. Things like Snorlax or Porygon may be crippled by running a Trick. The rise of Rotom-H can be backed up by it's really high usage atm, although I know that usage doesn't equal viability, Rotom-H is sitting at RU spot 12 with more than 10% usage.

Just to summarize: Great offensive and defensive typing atm, allowing it to hit a huge part of RU top tier mons with AoA Volt Switch, Tbolt, Overheat, HP Ice. Drops of Mandibuzz and Blastoise last tier shift increased viability a little bit, also stabilizing it's place in the meta with good ladder usage
 

roman

Tournament Banned
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a defending Smogon Snake Draft Champion
1523794066141.png

roserade a- > a

hello everyone

i want to nom rose up for this set that absolutely abuses a bunch of passive trends atm. it comes in against some top metagame threats like mandibuzz, milotic, and rotom cut and uses them to freely set up hazards or just beat them 1v1. it hits extremely hard, 2hkoing every steel type except bronz which drops after even a small bit of chip and using registeel as spikes fodder. even pokemon like 252 / 252+ mandi and cresselia struggle to come in after they've been poisoned as that + rocks will let roserade outright beat mandibuzz and run through cresselia's recovery quickly. rose has a great mu against hazard control too, able to OHKO rotom-h and gligar after rocks, ohko m stoise and rotom c, and 1v1 the aforementioned mandibuzz (lacking bb). z lets it bluff a choice item and it can run any of spikes, toxic spikes, hp fire in the third slot, giving it good versatility.

here's a replay of me using it against tdk in rupl-- keep in mind that rose will definitely fare better against rotom-c if you have a ground type like m lix that can more easily pressure the rotom c player to click leaf storm (or a sr setter that beats it), otherwise they'll just keep volt switching.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-732797403

also if any of you guys are wanting to try this poke out feel free to take the team i used some in r11 ssnl and this week of rupl

1523795954365.png


also want to add to some of the discussion points

1523796105814.png

moltres a > a-

have to agree here. i think choice scarf is a really terrible pick for slower balance teams as relying on it to revenge kill a plethora of metagame threats just pressures it way too much with the crippling sr weakness. on teams with more means of revenge killing its fine but i still wouldn't use it over other choice scarf users like gardevoir, ttrum, or flygon unless i needed to.

i also definitely support a medicham ranking and the froslass drop

thanks for reading!!!
 
View attachment 111001
roserade a- > a

hello everyone

i want to nom rose up for this set that absolutely abuses a bunch of passive trends atm. it comes in against some top metagame threats like mandibuzz, milotic, and rotom cut and uses them to freely set up hazards or just beat them 1v1. it hits extremely hard, 2hkoing every steel type except bronz which drops after even a small bit of chip and using registeel as spikes fodder. even pokemon like 252 / 252+ mandi and cresselia struggle to come in after they've been poisoned as that + rocks will let roserade outright beat mandibuzz and run through cresselia's recovery quickly. rose has a great mu against hazard control too, able to OHKO rotom-h and gligar after rocks, ohko m stoise and rotom c, and 1v1 the aforementioned mandibuzz (lacking bb). z lets it bluff a choice item and it can run any of spikes, toxic spikes, hp fire in the third slot, giving it good versatility.

here's a replay of me using it against tdk in rupl-- keep in mind that rose will definitely fare better against rotom-c if you have a ground type like m lix that can more easily pressure the rotom c player to click leaf storm (or a sr setter that beats it), otherwise they'll just keep volt switching.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-732797403

also if any of you guys are wanting to try this poke out feel free to take the team i used some in r11 ssnl and this week of rupl

View attachment 111002


also want to add to some of the discussion points

View attachment 111003
moltres a > a-

have to agree here. i think choice scarf is a really terrible pick for slower balance teams as relying on it to revenge kill a plethora of metagame threats just pressures it way too much with the crippling sr weakness. on teams with more means of revenge killing its fine but i still wouldn't use it over other choice scarf users like gardevoir, ttrum, or flygon unless i needed to.

i also definitely support a medicham ranking and the froslass drop

thanks for reading!!!

I do agree strongly with the majority of this but I do strongly disagree with the moltress drop, due to the rise of pokemon such as shaymin the defense set has become rather potent recently and it's wallbreaking skills are as amazing as ever with very few pokemon wanting to switch in or attempt to set up on the flame turkey, while it's choice scarf set is good I do honestly think that the wallbreaker set is worthy of the current moltres rank for how much of an iron grip it holds against bulky teams and teams in general.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top