Resource RU Viability Rankings - V2

Gonna keep it short and concise this time, but here's two noms that I'd like to make. The latter is especially important, as I believe it is completely misplaced in the current VR.

View attachment 114395 -> A
NP Firium has no definite defensive counter. Stuff like P2, Cress, Mandi, Milo etc all drop to it at +2. Specs trades some of its breaking potential with more immediate power, which lets it spam its fire STAB without the need to set up first. It also gives u the added benefit of saving your Z crystal for something else like for instance Viriz, Noivern or Meloetta. Ttrum being the most common fire resist these days only makes it that much more threatening.
Replays:
RUPL week 6: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-372110
RUPL Semi-Finals: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-375244

View attachment 114391 -> A-
This mon is fantastic. I completely agree with a rise, but B is nowhere near enough. It can 1v1 fat on its own thanks to strong STAB(s) and access to Taunt+Roost, whereas vs offense it does well bc of its great speedtier. It usually outspeeds everything but the opposing scarfer, and almost every time it comes in it claims a kill bc of its offensive prowess. Noivern also provides a lot of defensive utility by checking offensive grasses, Goli and NP Ninetales (specs oftentimes carries HP Ice). Having a mon that can break, check some of the tiers biggest threats and act as an rkiller that doesn't have to lock itself into a move (i.e. scarf Garde, Ttrum, Gon etc.) is incredibly useful. Additionally, it is a very splashable mon, which u can easily fit on any playstyle.
Replay from RUPL week 5: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-736050309

I completly agree to both noms. 9Tales is really good right now, she breaks offensive mons pretty fast and is also capable to spread out good dmg to phatter builds. I think she once again deserves a rise in the VR thread, as these two replays showed it clear enough.
Tales to A >>> Agreed

Noivern should also rise, it is a fast good dragon with two good STAB moves being Draco Meteor and Hurricane and seeing these two moves used via Z moves makes it an incredible force to scout and switchin.
Noivern to A- >>>Agreed
 
Cloyster: B to B-/C+: Disagree

I disagree with a Cloyster drop. It has a strong niche in skill link, and ice type is very very good. Ice shard is great for removing key threats like noivern and flygon. It has beyond excellent power at +2 and has far more physial bulk than Barbaracle. So yeah keep it B.

Mega Blastoise to A+: Agree
Yes. This should have happened even earlier. Extremely powerful and comes with hazard removal? Yes please. Additionally, having STAB dark pulse, aura sphere, dragon pulse, and Hydro Pump gives it amazing coverage. While it may suffer from 4MSS, it is a major threat in the meta, and with 135 special attack and great bulk, A+ represents this perfectly.

Mega Ampharos: B- to B/B+: Agree
Idk if it should go to B+ or B, but it's very refreshing to see bulky water cores fall to this beast. 165 special attack with a solid dual typing and some neat moves, along with great natural bulk, makes Ampharos potentially a bitch to deal with for unprepared teams. Slow Volt Switch is great for getting in another team mate, and is never easy to switch into. That being said, it is very slow, and wishes it's stabs were a bit stronger, especially dragon pulse, but is still very powerful and deserves a rise.

A nomination of my own:

Snorlax to A:
This is one of the best Entei checks you'll find. Especially if it can avoid a burn. Curse sets are pretty great right now thanks to fighting types generally not being the best right now and other sets like recycle 50% berry and even Choice band are all potent
 
RANKING UPDATES
Blastoise-mega A ---> A+
Shaymin A+ --> S
Tyrantrum A+ -->S
Salazzle S --> A+
Gardevoir A --> A+
Feraligatr A+ ---> A-
Abomasnow-mega A- --> B+
Golisopod B+ --> A
Ninetales A- --> A+
Entei --> Added to A+
Medicham --> Added to B-
Porygon2 A --> B+
Flygon A --> A-
Moltres A --> A-
Noivern B- --> A
Yanmega A --> A-
Snorlax A- --> A
Registeel B- --> B+
Doublade B --> B+
Drapion C+ --> B
Barbaracle C+ --> B+
Hoopa B --> C+
Sigilyph B+ --> B
Slowking B- --> B+
Klinklang ---> Added to C
Froslass B --> B-
Ampharos-mega B- --> B
Emboar --> Added to C
Honchkrow B+ --> B
Forretress --> Added to B
Necrozma B+ --> B
Umbreon B+ --> B
Escavalier B+ --> A-
Araquanid B+ --> B
Donphan D --> C- (no more discussion on this mon)
Cryogonal --> Unranked

Okay... Pretty big update but the meta has changed a lot since the last one.

I'll explain some of the more "controversial" things that either didn't receive a ton of discussion or were not moved any higher.

Ninetales - Went ahead and added this to A+. Everyone knows by now that it's arguably the most dangerous breaker in the tier and has maybe 3 things that can switch into it. On top of that, its ability offers support for mons like Noivern, which makes it useful outside of being a speedy, somewhat bulky nuke.

Forretress - This mon receives way too much flak despite how useful it is. Using Forretress well is all about playing into its matchup at the specific game. For example, in games where it's incapable of keeping Spikes up, it conveniently is able to get a free Spin on the most common Defog users. In situations where it can't Spin, such as the opposing team having a Doublade, it can Spike and force the hazard remover in to spin or even the playing field by stacking multiple layers of Spikes. This doesn't also go into its ability to pivot into a lot of dangerous attackers like Gardevoir, Shaymin, if using a specially bulky set, or Virizion, Scarf Tyrantrum, and Zygarde if its running the better physically bulky set. Between its ability to pivot in to bring in dangerous breakers like Ninetales and Entei, as well its ability to check several notable mons depending on the spread it uses, it more than makes up for its flaws as a spinner and spiker and earns it a place in B.

Gardevoir - This mon moved up to A+, but this mon simply isn't S rank worthy. Choice Scarf sets are very effective, but never dominate a match or do more than it's supposed to. It's extremely exploitable and allows way too many Pokemon, such as Entei, Ninetales, nearly any bulky Stealth Rock user, free turns. While Specs sets may be difficult to switch into, it has a hard time getting switch-ins itself, and even when it does, its Speed tier doesn’t let it to fully take advantage of those turns when many offensive Pokemon can outspeed and KO it. With Entei and Ninetales being so common, as well as the surgance of Registeel and Escavalier, the metagame just doesn't give it a lot of breathing room.

Emboar was added to C because it's RU by usage. It's mostly eclipsed by Entei, but its Choice Band set has significantly better coverage, so it's much harder to counter. Lack of Stealth Rock weakness is also nice, but its extremely poor Speed and competition with Bewear even prevents it from being placed any higher.

DISCUSSION POINTS:

Entei A+ --> S
Bronzong A --> A-
Mandibuzz S --> A+
Diancie B- --> B
Medicham B- --> B
 

MrAldo

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May as well tune in on some of this discussion points while they are fresh.

Mandibuzz from S to A+: This doesnt mean that this Pokemon isnt the dominant low key restricting presence but shows how much the metagame has adapted towards it. Gardevoir and Tyrantrum being some of the best mons atm alongside some metagame trends that promote sweepers that can plow through her regardless of her set like Barbaracle, being forced to pick between phys def and spdef sets to avoid losing to certain things and the Defog sets losing its initial luster of effectiveness really shows that she should drop tbh. Still an extremely defining metagame threat that can be really annoying to handle for many teams but not the one she was at the time of her inception in the RU tier. The metagame has found ways to tone her down and a drop to A+ rank should reflect that. Still an amazing mon tho (and I hate it).

Diancie from B- to B: Really agree with this nomination. One of the few Pokemon that can claim to counter Noivern in this metagame regardless of set which is an incredible feat on its own given how good Noivern is atm, but the inception of Entei makes Diancie a much more favorable pick since it is a SR setter capable of sustaining itself from a potential burn against Entei thanks to Heal Bell. Good Sacred Fire sponges are on demand atm and Diancie is one of the best and the only one that offers SR + Cleric support so thats really great role compression for plenty of teams. Having to choose between Earth Power or Heal Bell since you are either walled by Steel-types or miss the cleric value, and not being a surefire counter to Salazzle suck but that doesnt stop Diancie from doing its thing, and the metagame trends compensate for these faults to an extent. Also Fairy STAB is really nice to pressure Mandibuzz and to not invite Pokemon like Virizion or Bewear is pretty cool to. Also an okay check to Ninetales (to its STABs that is...). Definitely deserves a rise.

Medicham from B- to B: This one is fairly interesting. Really potent wallbreaker with late game cleaning potential thanks to LO bullet punch doing a massive dent and a rather competent choice scarf user rather similar to Gardevoir thanks to its access of Trick but exchanges fairy for Fighting STAB (and I certainly appreciate having a scarf fighter for once, damn). Despite Doublade and Cresselia gathering more steam as of lately, teams without these 2 are in deep trouble to find switch-ins for this thing. Certainly needs a good amount of support but isnt too do so with some Pursuit Trapper (it pairs well with Drapion and Escavalier) and its complementary coverage let it punish other fighting sponges found on plenty of teams like Gligar or Slowking/Slowbro. Deserves a rise, I like this mon. Perfect example of a B Pokemon imo.

Bronzong from A to A-: This is understandable too and I agree with it too. Very similar to Mandibuzz, the metagame is really adapting to it and going against Bronzong a bit. Pursuit is seeing more and more usage and that puts Bronzong in a complicated position since it really depends on its health to check stuff, and not having reliable recovery really affects him on that department. Still has the edge over Registeel since Levitate is pretty important on a metagame where Immunity Defog Gligar is really prevalent so it can potentially keep rocks against it but the metagame right now has found plenty of ways to overwhelm the bell so a drop is justifiable.

No opinion on Entei, Id rather pretend that mon doesnt exist...

Shoutouts to Nat for fulfilling her Golisopod prophecy. Not bad!

Cheers!
 
Most of these changes all made sense, but there were a few that didn't make sense, but I am only going to cover the one that made the least sense imo.

Feraligatr to A-???
I get it faces competition from Golisopod and all, but for what purpose was it moved all the way down to A-? It's still very good and gets out of control fast and I think it should be the same rank as Golisopod. It's water stab is stronger than Golis's, plus it can take on Entei much easier than Golisopod thanks to a fire resistance. Unlike Golisopod, Feraligatr has DD too, which boosts it's already amazing offensive power and boosts it's speed.
 
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Most of these changes all made sense, but there were a few that didn't make sense, but I am only going to cover the one that made the least sense imo.

Feraligatr to A-???
I get it faces competition from Golisopod and all, but for what purpose was it moved all the way down to A-? It's still very good and gets out of control fast and I think it should be the same rank as Golisopod. It's water stab is stronger than Golis's, plus it can take on Entei much easier than Golisopod thanks to a fire resistance. Unlike Golisopod, Feraligatr has DD too, which boosts it's already amazing offensive power and boosts it's speed.
I'd like to know too. Feraligatr functions differently from Golisopod and completely different from Milotic. I know that it faces competition from Mega Blastoise but I feel that it should be A at most.
 
Feraligatr struggles to get past Milotic that became even more common with Entei on the tier when running DD, and it's outsped and easy to revenge kill when running SD, specially since Grass-types and Golisopod are very common on the tier.

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 160-188 (40.6 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

When you talk about other Water-types, most of them have different roles. Golisopod is a wallbreaker and revenge killer with a powerful First Impression, other Priority options and Spikes support; Blastoise is a strong and bulky attacker that can actually check Fire-types and provide hazard control while being incredibly threatening with it's coverage; Milotic is one of the best defensive walls on the tier and can virtually take almost anything. Note that when it comes to defensive utility, Feraligatr cannot switch at all into most things it's supposed to check;

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Feraligatr: 123-144 (39.5 - 46.3%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
248 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 162-192 (52 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr in Sun: 203-239 (65.2 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As for an Water-type setup sweeper, this role is much better played by Barbaracle (it really should swap places with Fera tbh), that gets a really threatening Speed tier and power with Shell Smash and has resources to beat Milotic and Grass-types by having a very good secondary typing, can run a Z-Move to straight up kill Milotic after a bit of chip, has good options in Aerial Ace, Return, Low Kick, and even Protect and more reliability to setup against the likes of Noivern, Salazzle, Gligar, choice locked Entei, Ninetales, Golisopod, Escavalier and Drapion.
 

MrAldo

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SD Feraligatr is still really threatening mind you since it can afford to run different combinations of moves that make responding to it pretty annoying in terms of switch-ins (Aqua Jet, Liquidation, Superpower, Ice Punch, and Crunch all form valid combinations for the Swords Dance set) but the Feraligatr drop is justified since the metagame has managed to adapt to the Dragon Dance set and while the SD set is still effective the general speed tier of many things is above Gatr at this point, stuff like Toxicroak and Jellicent and in general are really prepared to deal with it even if the scarfer of many teams cant kill it from full since the rest of the team can put it in range of the scarfer (thats what the team should be doing anyways). A consideable drop in the rankings is justified since it is much more effective on paper that it is on practice at this point.

Id say Feraligatr is still a tad better than Barbaracle (both are screwed over by Golisopod anyways) since Barbaracle true potential comes in the late-game once the opportunity arises while Feraligatr can use its immediate power and less vulnerable typing/raw bulk to throw powerful attacks and chip down the opposing teams. I believe Adamant can be a cool option for SD too.
 
Goodra: C+ to B-/B

I'm nominating Goodra to rise because of one specific set.

Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
Careful Nature
- Outrage/Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse

It's pretty cheesy, but this thing just flat out wins games by itself. EVS are to not get 3HKO'd by STAB Foul Play. Laughs at Shaymin, Yanmega, defensive Nidoqueen, Salazzle, and pretty much any other Special attacker. It still requires support to deal with Fairies and the Outrage set is stopped by Milotic and Duoblade, but if you can deal with them and strong physical attackers Goodra will run wild.

Replays:

Outrage Sweep
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-736604071

DTail Sweeps
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-707464757
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-707073859
 
SD Feraligatr is still really threatening mind you since it can afford to run different combinations of moves that make responding to it pretty annoying in terms of switch-ins (Aqua Jet, Liquidation, Superpower, Ice Punch, and Crunch all form valid combinations for the Swords Dance set) but the Feraligatr drop is justified since the metagame has managed to adapt to the Dragon Dance set and while the SD set is still effective the general speed tier of many things is above Gatr at this point, stuff like Toxicroak and Jellicent and in general are really prepared to deal with it even if the scarfer of many teams cant kill it from full since the rest of the team can put it in range of the scarfer (thats what the team should be doing anyways). A consideable drop in the rankings is justified since it is much more effective on paper that it is on practice at this point.

Id say Feraligatr is still a tad better than Barbaracle (both are screwed over by Golisopod anyways) since Barbaracle true potential comes in the late-game once the opportunity arises while Feraligatr can use its immediate power and less vulnerable typing/raw bulk to throw powerful attacks and chip down the opposing teams. I believe Adamant can be a cool option for SD too.
fair enough. it really shouldn't drop any further though
 
guess it has been a hot minute so i'm due for a post. excuse the shortness of explanations:

Bronzong A --> A- - disagree, as i've said on discord for a bit now, meta trends to counter zong in the form of suiters (esp drap) for sure have hurt this thing. that being said, it's still incredibly viable and easily annoys teams unprepared for it. i really don't think it's ready to drop to A-, though i'll touch on some newer competition it has in a bit.

Mandibuzz S --> A+ agree, i think this thing is inferior to gligar in most ways atm. mandibuzz doesnt answer at all what i'd like it too atm, struggling vs most of the prominent offensive metagame, if mostly by virtue of typing alone. i used to agree w/ s rank but now it struggles so much picking a good moveset, i almost feel like you absolutely are forced to use brave bird, as otherwise mandibuzz teams generally can have problems w/ viriz and co. p scatterbrained thoughts on her i guess but idk i've been feeling very shaky about mandibuzz lately compared to a few months ago.

Blastoise-Mega A+ --> S this thing is probably one of the best 3 mons in the tier atm alongside tyrantrum and entei. modest spreads are so punishing and stoise has such incredible coverage w/ decent natural bulk that youre almost guaranteed to get a positive result from stoise most games. it's easily offenses best remover, and punishes setters better than any other remover in the tier, though quite frankly better than almost any mon in the tier. hp invested spreads are popping up more which is p cool, i've for sure felt the slight bulk helping in some games and most times you arent missing the speed. the most notable thing i could see you missing is tyrantrum though there's a strong chance it could just be scarf anyway lol.
anyway yeah send this to s it's rlly rlly good, if only it was an entei counter. which brings me to my next mon:

Milotic A --> A+ This is the best Milo has been in at least a month or 2 imo. for awhile it was just abused left and right and i didn't see as much of a point in slapping it on any given team though sure enough this gem has again been validated w/ entei entering the tier. no mon is a better counter to entei in the tier and it already can be annoying to the rest of any given team provided they arent hardprepped for it, something people have been doing less and less as milo has faded from among the best mons in the tier.

Salazzle A+ --> A Salazzle, as loved as it is by some, just isn't anywhere near as notable as it used to be, and most acknowledge this. it's the 3rd best fire in the tier realistically, and arguably the 4th. the grass coverage paired w/ sun fire coverage of ninetales completely overshadows salazzle to me, esp since you can opt for a specs set just as easily. the largest thing it has going for it is speed but unfortunately some of the most splashable mons in the tier atm are scarfers that best it.

Registeel B+ --> A- at least Registeel is something i've been hyping for a week or so now since metatrends have made bronzong less splashable on any team. registeel has much better natural bulk than zong as well, though for sure struggles with gligar and the lack of a free typing resist that bronzong offers. that being said, i consider it a v viable alternative atm, esp w/ the influx of garde tyrantrum shaymin golisopod running around (these four mons are my bread and butter so believe me it's a real pain).

Torkoal/Venusaur B --> C+ these two rlly have not been relevant for an awfully long time. i'd argue torkoal probably is better than venusaur but even still the pale in comparison to mons in the b ranks. venu isnt in a meta where it can really setup and take adv of a lot of stuff imo, esp w/ the influx of stuff like trace scarf garde, golisopod, and our very fat steels, among other things. torkoal is fatter than folks give it credit for but it has terrible typing for a defensive mon and it really shows w/ how fast it can get wittled. i just don't think it pulls its weight in games often.

Diancie B- -> B agree, i originally wasn't going to write on this nom but after a cursory glance through the flat B ranks it's clear how much better and more relevant diancie is compared to the majority. decent coverage outside of steels w/ nice defensive capability and hb/rocks is enough for me. i don't think it's anywhere near the best rocker but it for sure has a niche that ppl are realizing.

Sigilyph B --> B- sigi sadly just cant compare to any of the other defoggers. on top of this, i dont feel the cm sets it could get away w/ in old sm meta are as relevant here, given how much more offensive we are now. abusing stuff like registeel/p2/etc was a lot more comfy for roost cm sigi, since i feel now it hardly ever has a chance to breathe.

Flygon A- --> B+ I've been hating on flygon for awhile but i still don't think it has a place in the rank it is at despite alrdy falling. it has two sets essentially since defog roost is useless, and neither set i feel is particularly incredible. scarf is very weak and unfulfilling, and basically only serves as a shadow of a mon that occasionally gets a cute switchin on stuff like salazzle or scarf lazzle. i think it's heavily outscarfed in its realm as a dragon scarfer by tyrantrum, an s rank mon that packs a serious punch in comparison. scarf flygon can run uturn for momentum but this is the only real benefit over tyrantrum imo. dd has more of a fighting chance of being viable on flygon and i still like dd 3atk or dd sub, both have real merit, though are easily shutdown by a couple of mons depending on the set, like golisopod/garde/m-lix etc.

Jellicent B- --> C+ jellicent sadly is just not incredibly viable. it's completely outclassed as a watery wall by stuff like slowbro pyukumuku and milotic, and is also outclassed as a stallbreaker by most notably the recent favorite noivern, though also stuff like mandibuzz. it's not an incredible spinblocker either, since stoise, the most relevant spinner, can just click dark pulse twice and ruin your day. i guess it's worth nothing that it also doesnt spinblock vs tsareena while doublade does. but yeah it's legit like the 11th best water in the tier, pls drop out of Bs.

Umbreon B- --> C+ much like mandibuzz, recent metatrends have been very unkind to umbreon. rising stallbreaker noivern and rising rocker regi both give it a very hard time, and it already has a difficult time vs all of the physical threats anywhere in the A ranks of the vr. it also can struggle v easily vs stuff like melo/ninetales/shaymin/salazzle. it's just too passive for the current meta atm, and i don't think it deserves to be where it is.

Doublade B+ --> A- i've been seeing a lot of sd pursuit doublade lately which has been super cool for stuff like -2 rose, gardevoir, zong, shaymin, etc. it also works decently well vs some of the tiers better physical attackers that it resists. one of the most fortunate features of doublade is most of the time outright walling mons like snorlax/registeel, both who are very reliable in the meta atm. being one of the few mons to be able to stick it to toxicroak from a defensive standpoint is pretty neat too. you could say the same for viriz.

Sneasel C- --> C i think sneasel deserves a little more credit than the depths of c- lol. being able to bother gligar while also trapping zong is a pretty unique ability, and 361 isn't at all a bad speed tier. could see iron tail seeing usage w/ diancies roaming around more too. low kick is also something that could be considered for lix. it just has a lot of options that could rlly assist a team that needs it, though it for sure isnt some incredible good-in-every-mu powerhouse.

Ampharos-Mega B --> B+ Amphy breaks through a certain conglomeration of walls that rlly interests me. mold breaker is very useful for stuff like sturdy-lix and rhyperior. modest amphy hits harder on the special side than probably anything neutrally in the tier. dragon/fighting/elec is good coverage as well imo. being able to abuse gligar/steel/milo cores is v valuable in this meta atm, and being a soft entei answer isnt too bad either. some teams dont even have an answer to this still, it's for whatever reason overlooked and really shouldnt be.

Slowbro UR --> C+ i don't have any replays but i've broken the rules of this thread discussing donphan so i'm hoping this isnt as bad as that. has a unique niche as a mon that is a nice fat watery entei resist that doesnt largely mind burn. regen is hilariously good and can be abused w/ little effort. rindo and colbur sets are probably the best thing for this mon, as psyshocking virizions or besting drapions is pretty cool. could run speedcreep for escava w/ fireblast if you really really wanted but idt it's worth it. i'd probably use a 2 attack set w/ a status move if anything, i dont think the meta highly rewards cm bro atm.

Entei A+ --> S - agree, i alrdy touched on this when it was unbanned. nothing in ru is more unhealthy to teambuilding than this mon, and it's a rlly bad joke to say it's manageable because super-abuseable mons like diancie/milotic exist. pls do this.

i could write a few more but i think this is enough for now, cya in a month or so.
 

Molk

Godlike Usmash
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Oh boy, have i got a nomination for all of you!


Scrafty Unranked -->C+

So summer break just started for me and since i have a fair amount more free time, i decided to play some Pokemon again, i decided to see how RU was doing meta wise and looking through this list, i realized that there were only two Pokemon above C+ that resisted Scrafty's STAB combination in Florges and Toxicroak, and that the latter was frail enough that it could just drop to a +1 HJK with just a little bit of prior damage. Noticing this, i decided that trying out Scrafty might be worth it in this meta, and after building a team with it with MrAldo and laddering with it for a bit i believe it's worth a rank here. What Scrafty has over other Fighting-types in RU such as Bewear, Virizion, and Pangoro is the ability to boost its speed with Dragon Dance, which allows it to clean up in situations where the others wouldn't be able to. Shed Skin's also an absolutely amazing ability that basically "status proofs" it and increases the amount of times it can set up safely over the course of a match. It's still slow enough after a DD to be outsped by basically any Scarfmon and a few Pokemon even naturally outspeed it at +1, but it can use Knock Off to remove the Choice Scarf of an opposing Pokemon so it can clean up later, making switching these Pokemon in directly quite risky, and it can take a surprising amount of punishment too, letting it survive attacks from several Pokemon that outspeed it after a boost such as Scarf Tyrantrum, Flygon, and Shaymin, and Zydog/Salazzle, who outspeed it naturally. I used a Fightinium Z variation with Shed Skin and High Jump Kick during my testing to make up for its occasional lack of raw power and to reduce the risk of missing at crucial moments. I think Shed Skin and Fightinium Z are probably the best item and ability at this point, but one of Scrafty's main draws as a Pokemon back in ORAS was that it was quite customizable between its 3 abilities and a multitude of viable items, so trying out other variations might be worth a shot and heck, another variation entirely might be the *best* set (for example, i think Intimidate might be worth using, but i haven't tested it out yet). C+ seems like a solid starting rank to me, I'm not sure if i'd put it any higher atm due to competition with other Fighting-type Pokemon and (in my opinion) an occasional reliance on Z-HJK/lack of raw power, but you never know.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-751899173 - DurzaOffTopic makes a bold play by DDing in the face of a Scarf Gardevoir that ends up with Scrafty singlehandedly winning the match from there.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-750444748 - MrAldo puts a ton of work in with Scrafty in this match.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-751054484 - Scrafty puts an end to a "fat" team by setting up on Umbreon with impunity.


Scrafty @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch / Ice Punch

Pretty standard DD Scrafty, Drain Punch is pretty neat and can give Scrafty a bit more staying power, but Ice Punch is really neat too for catching Noivern on the switch and breaking through Gligar more easily.
 
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just some thoughts i had earlier, they are probably a jumbled mess so lol

this is real good rn. great flying and fire resist, being able to switch into stuff like noivern and moltres consistently. it can also at least force prediction w entei which is nice, too. it can come into knock which is great since there's not much in the current meta that can switch into knock consistently. offensive diancie can pressure other rockers like mega steelix and rhyperior well w earth power (you can do groundium too if you have the slot), too.
i think lazzle should stay a+. ofc everyone knows what np does but i want to touch on the choice scarf set. it really takes advantage of current trends like barbaracle, being able to outpace it after it has shell smashed and take it out w/ hp grass. ofc you miss out on dd gon then but i've been using sludge wave / fire blast / hidden power grass / dragon pulse which has been doing just fine
this thing is fucking disgusting to switch into, literally most of the sdef pokemon- cress, snorlax, slowking, jellicent, bronz, regi all struggle to switch into stoise because modest + it's coverage is so good that you'll probably lose something before you've fully scouted its set. it also has spin which is amazing and people are finally catching onto the good set
cress has been labelled as a do nothing poke for a while, which is admittedly true w the standard psyshock moonlight moonblast toxic set, but i think ppl are just writing cress off completely. it's OOs are, like, endless (hp fire, colbur, twave, lunar dance, whatever else) so that you can use whatever to support your teammates really nicely. i've been using twave / moonblast / moonlight / another oo (whatever is best for the team) w/ colbur so that i can at least cripple stoise as well as revenge killers like drapion. also subcm is p cool
this thing is so hard to switch into. rose can overwhelm whatever switch ins w/ sludge bomb poison + rocks or just use them to set up free spikes. shaymin is ofc competition but i feel like roserade in a would better reflect roserade's ability to set spikes, hit steels hard w/ tech fire, and hit a lot harder in general.

i also have to agree w/ a cham rise, scarf is really hard to switch into. barb and entei could probably rise, mandi should drop - taunt toxic is absolutely amazing but half the time i feel like you're forced to use the subpar defog set that comes w a lot of issues, unfortunately
 
A couple brief thoughts

Salazzle > A-
This is reflective of a long observed metagame trend, which somehow has not been acknowledged. While Salazzle was monstrous early on, the metagame has evolved to be able to consistently pivot around on it and always revenge kill it. The addition of CB Entei and relatively new popularity of scarf Tyrantrum and Golisopod have furthered this. Yes, Salazzle is tricky to switch into, but there are many more offensively threatening mons such as Roserade or Bewear who receive more switchin opportunities, while Salazzle is hard pressed to find a chance to come in on the vast majority of the metagame. Salazzle is too frail, and often can even lack coverage, to be consistent enough to be A+. A- is perfectly reflective of where it should be at.

Roserade > A+
This thing is a terror to switch into, with Dual Stab + hp fire hitting essentially every relevant Pokemon in the metagame, even breaking through spdef Mandi with LO + sludgebomb poisons. Synthesis allows Roserade to keep itself healthy vs. fatter squads pivoting around on it, while it can run spikes to deal pressure as well, making it super versatile. Roserade has the benefit of, by virtue of being so hard to hard to switch into, being a standalone Milotic punish.

Shaymin > A+

I think I just recommended this to S but oh well that's how metagames go. Basically the emergence of Noivern happened, compounded with renewed Registeel use which alone is enough to justify a fall imo.

Scrafty > C+

This thing sets up on Milo + Mandi and is actually pretty scary imo if it gets out of hand. Molk wrote a manifesto above so I assume it says whatever else I would say.

Sneasel > C+
This thing having banded pursuit is always an asset, and most teams don't appreciate banded knock in conjunction with offesnive support. Ice shard prio is a nice bonus.

Flygon > B-

This thing is a liability as a scarfer, having to choose between momentum loss or u turn over predicts, and there are many more advantageous offensive sweepers usually, such as Barbarcle or even Zydoge. It's ridiculous that this has been this high up for so long.
 
Salazzle to A- and Flygon to B-?? That's insane. While the meta has adapted to salazzle, it's definitely not an A- mon, and I'm not even going to try to explain everything wrong with your flygon nomination. For one, it's not used a scarfer nearly as much as DD and they never run U-turn
[00:22:53] eifo: .usage1630 flygon items
[00:22:53] *TIBot: Choice Scarf 45.938% | Dragonium Z 31.321% | Life Orb 5.385% | Groundium Z 4.800% | Leftovers 4.043% | Lum Berry 1.962% | Choice Band 1.867% | Other 4.684%

[00:23:31] eifo: .usage1630 flygon moves
[00:23:31] *TIBot: Earthquake 97.630% | Outrage 82.569% | U-turn 54.051% | Dragon Dance 44.808% | Defog 24.705% | Fire Punch 22.402% | Dragon Claw 20.181% | Iron Tail 15.622% | Stone Edge 5.729% | Roost 5.718% | Aerial Ace 4.035% | Toxic 3.988% | Other 18.562%

As you can clearly see from the stats above, Scarf Flygon is the most common set on ladder, and it actually has U-Turn more often than not. Hell, even some non-scarf sets use it (which for the record is a bad choice, make no mistake about it, as it benefits much more from sub or a coverage move depending on the team composition). In tournaments DD is never seen anymore. Instead, people have been opting to use more effective set up sweepers like Barbaracle and sometimes even Zygarde, like KW mentioned above. These mons find more set up opportunities in the current meta and are not as easily revenged, thus proving to be more efficient sweepers than Flygon as of right now.

Please refrain from posting if you do not have an adequate amount of experience within the tier. If you so choose to post anyway, please do explain your thought process, rather than merely making random statements of which you claim to be self explanatory. This is especially important when you are arguing against the consensus.

As for KW's noms, I support all of them. I suppose Flygon could be ranked a tad higher, but frankly, whether it is ranked as B or B- is of no importance to me. The main point is that it deserves to drop severely. Lastly, I also support Diancie to B+ and Blastoise-Mega to S. Diancie is quite nice in the current meta, soft checking Entei/9tales/Salazzle/Yanmega and walling Noivern and Molt, all the while providing the team with a Stealth Rock setter and cleric in this Entei+Milo infested meta of burns, and thus deserves a raise.
Stoise is an absolute menace for any team, due to its raw power+coverage leaving it with almost no switchins, in addition to its insane bulk letting it tank almost any given neutral hit. Dark Pulse having a 30% flinch chance to bs its way through Milo only makes it that much better.

-doninators
 

Molk

Godlike Usmash
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Gonna post a few thoughts, i formed these opinions independently but 3 or the 4 echo what's been mentioned above funnily enough.

Roserade is not an A- rank Pokemon, it's easily A/A+ in the current meta in my opinion. It's really good against "fat" builds due to how hard it hits and its access to Spikes, which lets it both dent things really nicely (even Registeel takes about 40% from LO Hidden Power Fire, that's pretty solid!) and help its teammates break through what they need to. As mentioned above, Spikes isn't the only option to use in the last slot either, both Sleep Powder and Synthesis are fine options too! The only reason why this thing isn't seen more often in my opinion is because Shaymin and Virizion fit certain teams better as an offensive Grass-type. Also, as a side note, Z-Roserade is pretty interesting to me, I've seen Ajna run Acid Downpour Roserade to good effect, and Bloom Doom seems somewhat interesting to me too as a one time super powerful Grass-type move with no drawbacks.

Barbaracle is extremely dangerous right now and fits better with the A rank crowd than in B+. I posted about it in the NP thread a few days ago but for anyone who hasn't seen it, my basic perspective on it is that it's both terrifying late game due to how difficult it can be to revenge kill (survives most priority even after the defense drop and outspeeds pretty much every scarfmon except the aforementioned Salazzle), and is capable of functioning as a breaker early game too due to how powerful +2 Continental Crush and Liquidation are. Its last moveslot is quite flexible too and can be tailored to what fits best with the rest of the team (as i mentioned in my post in the NP thread, some good examples of moves you can run in this slot are Low Kick, Substitute, Aerial Ace, and Protect).

Mega Blastoise is a great candidate for an S rank Pokemon. It has enough raw power and solid enough coverage options to function as an effective breaker (also remember, Mega Launcher means Blastoise essentially gets a STAB boost on both Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse), is far and away the best user of Rapid Spin in the tier, and is incredibly easy to fit on teams with a high payoff as long as you're not using another mega Pokemon such as Steelix or Ampharos already.

Diancie should move up from B- rank and be placed somewhere higher in the B ranks. It checks quite a few common Pokemon such as (as mentioned above) Noivern and Moltres. It's a SR setter that does quite well against Mandibuzz, and despite all of this i'd argue that it's nowhere near a passive Pokemon.
 
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CryoGyro

far from basic
is a Contributor to Smogon

A -> A-
With Fire-types and Pursuit trappers being the names of the game right now, it's all too easy for Bronzong to be a defensive liability for your team. So many threats can come in for free as it sets Stealth Rock that it's under a lot of pressure to use Toxic instead, which means it can't comfortably do its main job. It taking the Steel-type role of a team without being able to handle Tyrantrum whatsoever* makes it even more unattractive. I view it as pretty comparable to Cresselia; it walls some cool and unique things, but gets utterly bopped by others. It's still got plenty of value, but has become a harder sell.

I was going to have some nice symmetry going on by nominating Diancie for a rise based on how it benefits from the same trends that hinder Bronzong, but roman already took care of that :fukyu:

*I was mistaken, it checks Scarf handily, but it's still not the hardest to wear down
 
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Regarding a few of the nominations:

Mega blastoise is certainly S rank in this meta. Between it's bulk, power + very good coverage, and access to spin stoise is among the easiest mons in the tier to fit onto a team. Not only is it a strong wallbreaker but it's a reliable hazard remover as it beats stealth rock setters and has the ability to deter opponents from blocking rapid spin. In pretty much every match stoise pulls it's weight and for the most part is low risk high reward further adding to it's splashability unless your team would rather have a different water type like milotic for example and benefits more from running mega steelix or mega ampharos over it.


Flygon as of now really kinda just struggles and is far less effective than in the beginning due to various things like changes or simply competition with other top mons. The best set it really has is the choice scarf set which not only has bad moves to be locked into (locked into outrage is pretty unideal and being locked into earthquake invites ground immune mons and mons like shaymin and virizion free switch ins which just means it has to go for a very weak u turn which really hinders it when revenge killing and also has competition with tyrantrum Which is much more reliable as a scarfer due to it not being piss weak. As for the dragon dance set it faces competition from other setup sweepers that are much harder to revenge kill or have more power like barbaracle,zygarde, or feraligatr. In particular gatr has a lot more power behind it barbaracle is far harder to revenge kill as it resists extreme speed, outspeeds every scarfer minus salazzle, and is much harder to reliably wall. Zygarde despite having similar c&c to flygon is the better setup sweeper due to three things:speed tier which outruns a large chunk of the metagame even when running adamant which helps it beat it's checks much easier and still outspeeds every scarfer while boosted minus salazzle and the odd delphox and both of them fail to take boosted extreme speed well. Extreme speed not only makes zydoge much harder to revenge kill with scarfers and opposing priority but gives it even more utility letting you revenge kill if need be. Finally thousand arrows lets zygarde deal with ground immunes much better without having to resort to burning out devastating drake or getting locked into outrage.


This mon alone heavily constrains teambuilding by the fact that it mandates multiple fire switch ins on a team to deal with it. Plenty of said fire Resists hate switching into sacred fire because the fact that
  1. Said switch ins hate getting burned.
  2. Don't have reliable recovery.
  3. Get destroyed by whatever coverage entei is running
  4. They give a switch in to shaymin or virizion minus noivern moltres ice beam mega blastoise or mega ampharos to an extent.
The other factor that makes it S rank is that entei is low risk high reward due to sacred fire most often having a good outcome vs whatever wants to absorb it.

Tl;Dr Entei's huge constraint on teambuilding,exploitability of it's checks in some form, and the low risk high reward outcome it has with sacred fire make it S rank.
 
Entei A+ > S: Agree
Most of Entei’s switch ins either hate being burnt, or have little to no recovery. Extreme Speed hits like a steamroller and excels at revenge killing. It’s only issues are it’s vulnerability to rocks, and a lack of options for water types besides Grassium-Z (If you really wanted to). Sacred Fire is a broken move on a mon with such raw power. Could get banned imo.

Mega-Blastoise A+ > S: Agree
Another mon that is borderline op. It’s great bulk, hazard removal, and a check to a plethora of top tier threats like Tyrantrum, Entei, and Noivern makes it one of the most splashable mons in the tier. Not much can stand up to its immense coverage. Electric types are rare in the tier as well as Umbreon’s decline is nice for Mega-Toise.

Bronzong A > A-: Disagree
Despite it’s weakness to the dreaded Entei and being easily Pursuit trapped, it’s still one of the best counters to Noivern, Non-Shadow Ball Gardevoir, and Tyrantrum. Not to mention the sudden rise for Diancie. I can agree with its other issues like getting beat by most defoggers and spinners, but the flaws it has are slightly negated by its ability to take hits from some of the biggest threats in RU.

Medicham B- > B: Disagree
It’s ridiculously hard to wall but it’s speed tier kills it imo. It’s bulk makes it hard to get in a good switch in unless one of your party members die or you make a good prediction. Medicham can be played around with by Protect, and proper prediction to make sure it’s chances of getting off a kill smaller. The afromentioned speed tier forces it to switch for the most part. Good wallbreaker, but speed is still important.

Goodra C+ > B-/B: Strongly Agree
Goodra is very anti-meta rn. But I’m not supporting it for the set Crying Lighting nommed it for, but for the common Assault Vest set, and even the uncommon Specs set. Goodra’s coverage allows it to hit nearly the entire tier. Many common special attackers such as Shaymin, Salazzle, and even Gardevoir lose to it in a 1v1 cause of how collosal its SpD is. It’s matchup vs Mega-Blastoise and Ninetales can make it splashable on Balance and Bulky Offense. One of the more underrated dragons imo.

Now for noms of my own.

Comfey C- > UR
Just unrank it already, it has been dying to come to NU since Nidoqueen came back and that is more apparent than ever. Despite Nidoqueen and Salazzle losing usage since then, it’s hard to justify using Comfey over Gardevoir or Diancie. It basically gives off free turns to Entei (Which hits really fucking hard), and Moltres. Draining Kiss doesn’t even OHKO Tyrantrum.

Poygon2 B+ > A-
There are very good reasons to bring it back to the A ranks. Noivern, Gardevoir, Tyrantrum, and Shaymin have rose to the top and lose to Porygon2 (Except for Sub-Seed Shaymin). It’s passivability is backed up by two things. Download, and Ice + Electric coverage being harder to switch into. But it has a few issues like being forced to swap when dangerous threats like Virizion, and Bewear come in.

Decidueye C > D
It’s hard to justify it anymore over other grass types or ghost types. What good is a Grass/Ghost Type Wallbreaker when you are outsped and OHKOd by almost everything in the tier. Why even bother with it, we already have Barbaracle, Zygarde 10%, Feraligatr, and ofc Virizion taking on its role. Ninetales, Noivern, and Entei being more common than ever digs a graveyard for this already dead bird. Can’t wait for it to drop to NU some day where it can do its job without being outclassed (But Incineroar is a bitch).
 
Entei A+ --> S
yes
this mon is just generically good at everything you can make it do and you usually end up needing 2 checks for it on most teams. i don't think it's as hard to check as other people say but that's the difference between absolutely fantastic mon and broken.

Bronzong A --> A-
yes
bronzong can be a liability at the best of times and the current meta just amplifies that.

Mandibuzz S --> A+
yes
i don't think about this half as often as i used to, it's great and it does everything but i think more specialized mons are stepping on its toes, and its ability to omniwall teams is mostly gone.

Diancie B- --> B
no
it does beat entei and noivern but not like, particularly well. the meta is kinder to it but i'd argue that it was ranked too high. the meta is kinder than ever to gigalith for most of the same reasons, and gigalith doesn't deserve a rise. it needs the same amount of support (which is to say a lot) as always.

Medicham B- --> B
yes
this thing is crazy if you don't have doublade. it's faster than notable mons on offense so it's not like its dead weight in those matchups, though its obviously not at its peak.

Comfey C- --> UR
yes
it's awful
 

Robert Alfons

DEHUMANIZE YOURSELF AND FACE TO BLOODSHED
is a Tiering Contributor
B+ -> A-: Toxicroak is benefiting from a number of meta trends right now, in particular Entei's impact on the tier. Milotic is on the rise since it's the easiest reliable Entei switchin to fit on a team, and any non-Ice Beam version lets Toxicroak in entirely for free, so Croak works off Entei really well. Its amazing coverage makes it really obnoxious to switch into (always run Drain Punch + Ice Punch btw these are essential), nothing except Doublade or something funky like pdef Psychic Bronzong can come in on it without fear, and its resistance to SR + potential heals from Scald make it more durable than one would expect. This replay and this one should give you a good idea of how difficult Toxicroak is to handle for a lot of teams (the former replay having a Vaporeon for some reason but replace it with a Milotic and it still works).

B+ -> A:
Molk touched on this already but the nom doesn't seem to get a lot of attention so I'm backing him up here. Barbaracle is truly disgusting, it only needs one or two things weakened before it can sweep through entire teams and as a result whenever you play against a Barbaracle you need to walk on eggshells lest you want to get blown back. With its STABs alone it kills the vast majority of the tier after a boost, leaving its final slot entirely customizable to suit your team's needs. Resisting Entei's Espeed is also huge since you need a fair amount of damage on Barbaracle if you want to revenge it with Entei, something you cannot say for most sweepers of this caliber such as Linoone (and Barbaracle has more useful resistances to give it setup opportunity too). Overall this thing just feels way too dangerous to be below the A ranks.

A- -> B+:
And while Barbaracle is on the rise, I feel Feraligatr is being put in an awkward position more and more. This has very little to do with a lack of power or coverage, it's obviously still very dangerous in battle, but Gatr is extremely difficult to fit on a team. This has everything to do with its lack of defensive utility, since the most important resistance for a Water-type to have right now (Fire) is completely useless when you fear Entei's Sacred Fire burns and when Moltres, Salazzle, and Ninetales either have a powerful secondary STAB or supereffective coverage to screw Gatr. As a pure Water-type, Gatr directly competes with Stoise and Milotic, the former providing a team with hazard control and a decent Entei switchin while being no less difficult to switch into than Gatr, and the latter providing a sturdy, durable defensive backbone. Both of these are extremely valuable for many teams and nigh impossible to successfully fit on the same team as Gatr. Meanwhile, other offensive Water-types that cannot switch into Entei have more to offer than Gatr: Golisopod provides teams with a valuable Ground- and Fighting-resist and the strongest priority in the entire game, whereas Barbaracle's aforementioned ability to easily sweep through teams after only a bit of chip on a few mons completely alters how your opponent should approach how they play. Gatr may be threatening, but in terms of viability, ie how it performs vis-a-vis the rest of the meta when competing for a team slot, it falls short, so I think a drop from the A ranks is justified.

Some thoughts I'm not really interested in working out but might be worth discussing: Swellow seems kinda bad right now, might be due for another drop, its utter lack of defensive utility and the fact every team has like two good switchins to it makes it way inferior to the comparable Noivern. Mega Abomasnow seems increasingly difficult to fit on a team, faces stiff competition both as a Mega and as a Grass-type. Registeel and Bronzong are at least on the same level right now, Regi possibly being the better one. When's the last time Froslass HO has seen any significant success? Drop it.

I agree with all the discussion points. Mega Stoise also needs to go S already. I haven't used Cresselia for a while so correct me if I'm wrong but it's kind of a shit do nothing mon for most teams and it probably doesn't belong in the A ranks to begin with, it's due for a drop rather than a rise. Flygon to B- seems too harsh but B+ or B seems fair for it since much like Gatr it's struggling to find its place in this meta despite past successes. Shaymin absolutely shouldn't drop, it's still insanely splashable and while it dislikes Noivern's spike in usage, it loves that Milotic is as common as ever. Other noms I agree with or don't care about enough to comment on.
 
B+ -> A-: Toxicroak is benefiting from a number of meta trends right now, in particular Entei's impact on the tier. Milotic is on the rise since it's the easiest reliable Entei switchin to fit on a team, and any non-Ice Beam version lets Toxicroak in entirely for free, so Croak works off Entei really well. Its amazing coverage makes it really obnoxious to switch into (always run Drain Punch + Ice Punch btw these are essential), nothing except Doublade or something funky like pdef Psychic Bronzong can come in on it without fear, and its resistance to SR + potential heals from Scald make it more durable than one would expect. This replay and this one should give you a good idea of how difficult Toxicroak is to handle for a lot of teams (the former replay having a Vaporeon for some reason but replace it with a Milotic and it still works).

B+ -> A:
Molk touched on this already but the nom doesn't seem to get a lot of attention so I'm backing him up here. Barbaracle is truly disgusting, it only needs one or two things weakened before it can sweep through entire teams and as a result whenever you play against a Barbaracle you need to walk on eggshells lest you want to get blown back. With its STABs alone it kills the vast majority of the tier after a boost, leaving its final slot entirely customizable to suit your team's needs. Resisting Entei's Espeed is also huge since you need a fair amount of damage on Barbaracle if you want to revenge it with Entei, something you cannot say for most sweepers of this caliber such as Linoone (and Barbaracle has more useful resistances to give it setup opportunity too). Overall this thing just feels way too dangerous to be below the A ranks.

A- -> B+:
And while Barbaracle is on the rise, I feel Feraligatr is being put in an awkward position more and more. This has very little to do with a lack of power or coverage, it's obviously still very dangerous in battle, but Gatr is extremely difficult to fit on a team. This has everything to do with its lack of defensive utility, since the most important resistance for a Water-type to have right now (Fire) is completely useless when you fear Entei's Sacred Fire burns and when Moltres, Salazzle, and Ninetales either have a powerful secondary STAB or supereffective coverage to screw Gatr. As a pure Water-type, Gatr directly competes with Stoise and Milotic, the former providing a team with hazard control and a decent Entei switchin while being no less difficult to switch into than Gatr, and the latter providing a sturdy, durable defensive backbone. Both of these are extremely valuable for many teams and nigh impossible to successfully fit on the same team as Gatr. Meanwhile, other offensive Water-types that cannot switch into Entei have more to offer than Gatr: Golisopod provides teams with a valuable Ground- and Fighting-resist and the strongest priority in the entire game, whereas Barbaracle's aforementioned ability to easily sweep through teams after only a bit of chip on a few mons completely alters how your opponent should approach how they play. Gatr may be threatening, but in terms of viability, ie how it performs vis-a-vis the rest of the meta when competing for a team slot, it falls short, so I think a drop from the A ranks is justified.

Some thoughts I'm not really interested in working out but might be worth discussing: Swellow seems kinda bad right now, might be due for another drop, its utter lack of defensive utility and the fact every team has like two good switchins to it makes it way inferior to the comparable Noivern. Mega Abomasnow seems increasingly difficult to fit on a team, faces stiff competition both as a Mega and as a Grass-type. Registeel and Bronzong are at least on the same level right now, Regi possibly being the better one. When's the last time Froslass HO has seen any significant success? Drop it.

I agree with all the discussion points. Mega Stoise also needs to go S already. I haven't used Cresselia for a while so correct me if I'm wrong but it's kind of a shit do nothing mon for most teams and it probably doesn't belong in the A ranks to begin with, it's due for a drop rather than a rise. Flygon to B- seems too harsh but B+ or B seems fair for it since much like Gatr it's struggling to find its place in this meta despite past successes. Shaymin absolutely shouldn't drop, it's still insanely splashable and while it dislikes Noivern's spike in usage, it loves that Milotic is as common as ever. Other noms I agree with or don't care about enough to comment on.
You say gatr "Directly competes with stoise and milotic", when feraligatr plays completely different roles than both of them. First off, Milotic is a defensive water type and does not use offensive sets, and then mega blastoise is a special wallbreaker, not a physical booster. Overall, I would disagree with a Feraligatr drop. Sure it may see some competition from golisopod and barbaracle, but really it is still a serious threat, and imo should remain A-.
 

Rabia

IM ME, I DO ME, AND I CHILL
is a Pre-Contributor
You say gatr "Directly competes with stoise and milotic", when feraligatr plays completely different roles than both of them. First off, Milotic is a defensive water type and does not use offensive sets, and then mega blastoise is a special wallbreaker, not a physical booster. Overall, I would disagree with a Feraligatr drop. Sure it may see some competition from golisopod and barbaracle, but really it is still a serious threat, and imo should remain A-.
I think you don't understand what he means by "competes with Mega Blastoise and Milotic"; he does not mean in any sense that Feraligatr fulfills the same role as either. Rather, Feraligatr competes for the slot of a mono Water-type, and considering both Milotic and Mega Blastoise are objectively better Pokemon than Feraligatr, it's difficult to justify using it on a team. This is further compounded by Barbaracle's recent rise which gives Feraligatr competition for its role - a setup sweeper.
 

fanyfan

i once put 42 mcdonalds chicken nuggets in my anus
A0AC7504-2E04-4777-9709-D3CF7AE2296F.png

Mega Blastoise to S: Agree
This mon basically has a chokehold on the hazard game right now. Most of the hazard setters right now fall to Mega Blastoise, giving the advantage to the blastoise player right out of the gate in a lot of games. Even if it doesn’t directly beat the setters like Roserade, it can easily chip them on the switch, making it really hard to keep hazards up versus a well-played blastoise.

On top of that, unless you have a Milotic or spdef cress, blastoise is extremely hard to switch into. Usually it runs one of dark pulse or aura sphere, but you don’t know which until you scout, which can be hard to do due to its raw power.
 
Mega Blastoise: A+ -> S

Mega Blastoise has solidified itself as easily the most threatening special attacker in the tier (bar like ninetales which is stupidly good too). The sheer amount of power this mon packs is insane and the great coverage it gets makes it stupidly hard to wall unless you're using Milotic/Florges/Pyukumuku, all of which are easily abused by some common Pokemon like Toxicroak. Rapid Spin makes it the best type hazard control available and 4 Atks, although rare, is one of the most fierce wallbreakers in the tier. The recent standardization of bulky Mega Blastoise (which is much better than Timid btw) adds to its serviceable defensive utility by making it an actual Entei check (if running 168 HP) or hitting far harder with a Modest nature (especially if running max Special Attack). Its low speed hurts it, but its solid bulk mitigates this issue by a lot, and you still outspeed lots of common walls like Cresselia anyways. Even though it dislikes bulky Water-types rising because of Entei, it is still such an influential Pokemon that I'd rank it above all of the current S Ranks atm.

Entei: A+ -> S

sacred fire is unhealthy its got like 2 counters espeed is too much blah blah honestly everyone's already said just about everything that needs to be said about entei. I don't think it would be helpful to regurgitate everyone's statements again.

Bronzong: A -> A-

While Bronzong is just as defensively potent as always, the meta has managed to adapt to it to a large extent. Pokemon that can easily beat it, like Mega Blastoise, Entei, Ninetales, Zygarde-10%, and Roserade are on the rise, and Pursuit is still one of the best moves in the meta, in part because of Bronzong's popularity itself. Drapion, Sneasel, Escavalier, and Doublade are all menaces in the tier, all of which are able to trap and eliminate Bronzong if they get a free switch-in. This can be extremely problematic for teams that rely on Bronzong as their sole Fairy/Ice/Ground/Psychic check, since powerful wallbreakers like Gardevoir, Vanilluxe, Nidoqueen, Meloetta, and Comfey can rampage through teams without it to stop them on their tracks. Although it has great utility options (Stealth Rock / Gyro Ball / Psyshock / Psychic / Toxic / Protect / Psywave), it is forced to choose only four of them, making it more vulnerable to certain checks depending on what it runs.

Noivern: A > A-

I would like to start off by saying Noivern is definitely a fantastic wallbreaker and a threat most teams need to prepare for: being able to run several variations of sets like Taunt + Roost, Stallbreaker, 3 Attacks, max hp and Choice Specs. Its great typing makes it a pretty splashable and defining pokemon in RU, earning its spot on some balanced and bulky offense teams, and an amazing speed stat let it revenge kill numerous threats like Virizion and Salazzle. However, I feel it was really overhyped initially; it just does not hold up with the rest of the A-ranked pokemon. Checks to Noivern are at their prime right now. Rock-types are in demand because of the prevalence of Entei and Fairy-types are as good as ever, and giving free turns to very threatening sweepers like Barbaracle, Comfey, and Tyrantrum is really bad. Other counters like Registeel, Ampharos, and Slowking are rapidly becoming more and more relevant in the meta. Noivern, while still really good, just struggles to keep up with the higher ranks.

Feraligatr: A- -> B+/B

The problem with using Feraligatr, in my opinion, is that you are missing out on using another of our fantastic water-types; offensively Barbaracle, Golisopod, Mega Blastoise, and hell, even Bruxish are all extremely threatening and most importantly, offer excellent defensive utility while still pressuring the opponent. While Swords Dance Feraligatr is really hard to wall, its complete lack of defensive utility, even despite its decent bulk, 4 moveslot syndrome (it wants Swords Dance / Liquidation / Aqua Jet / Superpower / Ice Punch / Crunch), and middling speed stat just makes it harder to justify using right now. Dragon Dance was extremely potent in SM, but it has fallen off really hard lately. More and more checks seem to be resurfacing and its low speed for a sweeper means almost every relevant Choice Scarf user outspeeds it even at +1 (bar Tyrantrum). The prevalence of bulky Water-types to check Entei is also a huge thorn in Feraligatr's side. The meta has completely adapted to the threat of Feraligatr and that deserves a drop from the A ranks.

Flygon: A- -> B/B-

I don’t think people were really taking Dragon Dance Flygon into account when it dropped last shift. Instead, the mediocrity of the Choice Scarf set was pointed out and it was the reason for its drop. However, around the same time, people were starting to realize the potency of Dragon Dance Zygarde-10%, which, compared to Flygon, requires significantly less support from its teammates to pull off a sweep. Despite both Dragons having the same attack stat, Zygarde-10% has several other advantages that make it worth using over Flygon most of the time. Firstly, having a 115 base speed stat compared to Flygon’s 100 is easily the most significant difference. It allows Zygarde-10% to comfortably run an Adamant nature and still outspeed 100 base speed Choice Scarf users, which makes a big difference compared to Flygon being forced to run a Jolly nature or risk being outpaced by 90 or 100 base speed Scarfers. Adamant Flygon is an option but you miss out on a lot of relevant speed benchmarks, which is why I'm really not a fan of it. Secondly, Zygarde-10%’s access to Thousand Arrows makes it far less dependent on team support to sweep teams. For example, it allows it to beat really common defensive and offensive pokemon that Flygon struggles with; Bronzong, Moltres, Gardevoir, and Rotom-Heat all drop to Thousand Arrows, but can avoid Earthquake and either revenge Flygon or force it to lock into Outrage, which is far more exploitable given the prevalence of Fairy- and Steel-types. Finally, Zygarde-10% has Extreme Speed, which lets it revenge kill the few Choice Scarf users that can outspeed it, like Salazzle, Delphox, and Espeon. It's also pretty helpful when unboosted. Although Flygon's better bulk + Levitate can definitely come in handy, Flygon lesser Speed, the necessity of higher team support, and being forced to waste its Z-Move whenever it finds a Ground resistance, makes it a far less appealing option. A Pokemon so thoroughly outclassed like Flygon should definitely not be so high up the viability rankings.

Barbaracle: B+ -> A-/A

Barbaracle is just fantastic right now. Shell Smash makes it one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier, even more so than some of the pokes in the A ranks. Its great typing gives it a lot of setup opportunities versus some of the best mons in the meta, and can force choice locked pokemon to be extremely careful when using their coverage lest they give this monster a chance to click Shell Smash. The aforementioned typing gives it excellent resistances to some of the best offensive types in RU, particularly Fire, Flying, and Normal. Lets briefly go through some of the more relevant Pokemon it can set up against: Fire STAB locked Ninetales, Salazzle, non-Draco Meteor Noivern, Snorlax, Moltres, and Glalie. Because its typing is also offensively great, it gives it basically a free moveslot in which it is free to run one of Aerial Ace / Substitute / Protect / Low Kick / Return / Taunt. Some of those are admittedly pretty niche, but they are a testament to the versatility of this mon. While its speed isn't actually that great unboosted, once it gets off a Shell Smash very few Choice Scarf users would be able to revenge kill it, (pretty much only Salazzle and Espeon) something that very few offensive pokemon can boast. Being able to blow apart most defensive answers like Milotic or Bewear with an insanely powerful +2 Continental Crush is an excellent way to pave a sweep from another Pokemon like Entei, which is why it tends to find itself in numerous offensive and balanced teams alike.
Toxicroak: B+ -> A-

Toxicroak is really enjoying the state of the metagame right now. Entei being everywhere means an increase in bulky Water-type usage, which it really really likes cause it means free Sword Dances for it. It also fares well against some of the tiers best offensive Pokemon like Mega Blastoise, Virizion, Golisopod, and Barbaracle. Although it does suffer from pretty bad 4mss, this also means the opponent is left in the dark against an opposing Toxicroak because you never know what to expect from it. Additionally, the emergence of the Choice Scarf set is another testament to its versatility. Despite a not so great 85 Speed stat, it still outspeeds a large portion of relevant Pokemon, like non-Choice Scarf Gardevoir, Mega Blastoise, and Tyrantrum, and it can run Sucker Punch to have an even better matchup versus offensive teams. It can run a variety of items like Life Orb, Poisonium Z, Choice Scarf, and Darkinium Z, letting it choose its checks and counters. This makes it quite a flexible yet powerful mon and in my opinion, this warrants a rise into the A ranks.


Swellow: B -> B-/C+

Swellow is actually a pretty neat Pokemon; Boomburst + U-turn makes it a real pain vs offensive teams, especially after considering the rarity of offensive Steel-types, and its Speed tier is so useful versus threats like Salazzle, Virizion, and Noivern. However, it has a number of flaws that I feel like have been ignored for a long time. Ever since its prime in SM, it just hasn't been as consistently effective in my opinion, especially considering how the meta has evolved to favour more balancey/bulky offensive teams. While offense and hyper offense are still viable, the other two are simply more consistent and common. This means the types of team structures Swellow is best at breaking apart aren't used as much anymore. Considering Rock-type Pokemon like Barbaracle, Rhyperior, Omastar, Tyrantrum, and even Gigalith are at their heyday and there's usually at least one of these on every team, Swellow has a hard time fitting onto a team due to the amounts of support it needs to succeed, and its complete lack of defensive presence which means you're essentially playing a 6v5 defensively. It's still a decent mon overall but it has too many flaws that prevent it from being consistently useful imo.

some other noms i agree with
Sneasel: C- -> C+

Omastar: UR -> C

Scrafty: UR -> C/C+

Sun duo: B -> B-/C+

Uxie: C -> higher
 
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