Resource RU Viability Rankings - V2


Slowbro from Unranked -> C
I would like to focus this post mostly on a nom that hasn’t been given much attention: ranking Slowbro. Slowbro fits best on fat balance cores due to its great bulk and typing, allowing it to check Entei, Gligar, Mega Steelix, Rhyperior, and Mega Glalie. Arguements brought up against Slowbro is heavy competition from Milotic as a bulky water that checks similar threats. However, Slowbro has key advantages and specific match ups that has practical advantages over Milotic. First off, it is not Toxicroak bait by any means when compared to Milotic, in fact acting as a Toxicroak check, which can be a great asset to teams that cannot afford to let it in. It switches into the uncommon, but scary Medicham, which is a feat not many can claim. Additional bulk makes it harder for the rising threat in DD Zydog to break through, as it always survives +1 Z-Outrage after rocks (even Adamant), while Milotic struggles to survive the hit, as it must stay extremely healthy, which Slowbro does much easier through Regenerator. Regenerator is an incredible ability, as it allows Slowbro to consistently check the threats it’s supposed to throughout the match, while preserving important momentum for teams. Regenerator also enables Slowbro to pivot into dangerous choice locked threats such as Banded Bewear and Scarf Tyrantrum, as even if they choose the “correct” move for Slowbro, the Slowbro player can simply switch into the proper resist, while still staying healthy enough. It also has the advantage of a wide movepool, allowing players to pick which move rounds off the team best, such as Toxic, Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and Grass Knot. It is not complete pursuit bait either if running Colbur Berry, as you can switch almost for free or even stay in against Drapion the first time for a potential Scald burn. Colbur also enables a better match up vs DD Feraligatr and Honchkrow. However, Slowbro, of course, has its weak points. It’s generally much more vulnerable to status, and does not efficiently check Mega Blastoise, which can be a big turn off when compared to Milotic. It’s also unable to Haze away boosts, leaving it stimmied vs Snorlax or Cresselia. Slowbro’s lacking special defense leaves it worse going against Dragalge and Moltres. Outside of the Milotic comparison, it cannot reliably check Fire types outside of Entei or fightings like Virizion, Pangoro, or SD Bewear, and is very slow. Despite this, Slowbro has a definite niche and can be justified over its competition due to Regenerator being great, and deserves to be ranked, especially with Entei still around.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 111-131 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 298-352 (75.6 - 89.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde-10% Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 288-339 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Adamant)

252 Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 157-186 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 180-213 (45.6 - 54%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Slowbro: 126-148 (31.9 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Drapion Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 168-200 (42.6 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO (no item)

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Slowbro: 129-152 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 3HKO (be wary that the next Crunch will KO)

252+ Atk Honchkrow Black Hole Eclipse (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Slowbro: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Z-Sucker Punch)

Other noms I agree with:
Mega Blastoise A+ —> S
Entei A+ —> S
Bronzong A —> A-
Feraligatr A- —> lower
Flygon A- —> B-
Barbaracle B+ —> A
Toxicroak B+ —> A-
Scrafty UR —> C
Torkoal/Venusaur B —> lower
Diancie B- —> B
Medicham B- —> B
Mandibuzz S —> A+
Roserade A- —> A+
 
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Molk

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One more nom i've been considering for a bit


Honchkrow B ----> lower

This thing.....kinda sucks right now in my opinion. It has solid offensive presence yeah, but there are a few factors that make me not want to use it. Like usual, Honchkrow really struggles with residual damage. Between its weakness to SR and reliance on Brave Bird for damage output along with the fact that it's really not that bulky to begin with, Honchkrow really struggles to stay around for long periods of time, especially if you're using LO Krow instead of say, Z-Taunt (which i consider the best set by the way). I guess you could argue that you can run Roost to heal off that passive damage, but with Honchkrow's general frailty, it's going to have to rely on forcing switches to get one off safely most of the time, and running Roost means it's going to be difficult, if not impossible to fit Pursuit or Taunt on your Krow. Outside of residual damage, my other main issue with Honchkrow is that it tends to have trouble cleaning up as much as it'd like to in the current meta, priority users such as Entei, Zydog, and Golisopod are very common right now and can pick it off pretty easily while bypassing Sucker Punch through either natural speed or a higher priority bracket. Outside of priority, a decent amount of the metagame both outspeeds it and can survive a +1 LO Sucker Punch either due to a resistance to Dark-type moves or just natural bulk from my experience. Honestly, right now i'd only really consider it on Sticky Web teams, and even then i find that those builds are pretty matchup dependent themselves (not to mention, having webs up doesn't help against Entei, Zydog, or Golisopod at all since all of their priority moves have a higher priority bracket than Sucker Punch, and the former two are absolutely everywhere right now).

I'm not sure how low i think it should drop, probably not too much since i still consider it a usable mon, but i don't think it fits well in B rank.
 
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Houndoom UR ----> C+

Houndoom makes for an interesting setup sweeper in the meta today thanks to a useful ability in Flash Fire, a boosting move in nasty plot, and useful stab typing. Flash fire allows for Houndoom to safely come into stab moves from Entei and force it out while getting a fire attack boost. More so, its typing allows for Ninetails' specs and nasty plot sets to be walled as well. The set I found to be most useful is:

Houndoom @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast

Given the ubiquity of steel or psychic types, Houndoom finds many opportunities to setup either by boosting or using Substitute. Most balance teams which favor the Milo/Gligar/Regi core resort to Milotic being the switch into Houndoom must predict the Z-Move since +2 Z-Dark Pulse is able to KO a Milotic ~80% of the time. More so, Houndoom is able to live a scald from full and 2HKO the Milotic after rocks.

Houndoom has some faults in its lack luster speed tier and weakness to rocks. More so its necessity of a Z-Move makes it unfavorable in many team building scenarios, however, its ability to provide an offensive switch-in to Entei and Ninetails, as well as its ability to force out the common steel, psychic and grass types which run rampant in the tier give Houndoom some merit and thus should be included in the VR.

+2 252 SpA Houndoom Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Milotic: 382-450 (96.9 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Milotic: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Milotic Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Houndoom: 206-246 (70.7 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 
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ok so im gonna try to make a nomination
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Slurpuff C --> UR/C-


This mon is outclassed in every thing he can do. As a belly drummer, is way more weaker than linoone, the lack of priority make him really easy to revengekill. Unlike linoone, in order to sweep he has to lose 25% of life because belly drum + sitrus berry (and im not considering hazards), so this makes him even more easily to kill immediatly and as i said before, in the case you dont oneshot him its reeeealy easy to reveng kill with some prioritys.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 149-176 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 124-146 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 90-106 (29.4 - 34.6%) -- 7.6% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 90-106 (29.4 - 34.6%) -- 7.6% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 159-187 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

He cant even beat some of the steel types, because hes attack is still really bad and he has only drain punch as decente coverage.

+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Steelix-Mega: 200-236 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 226-267 (65.6 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 207-244 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And doublade completelly wall him. I dont even what to talk about sticky webs, because we all know that araquanid is the best sticky setter. So yeah this mon needs too much support and its not even rewarding at all.

Others nom i agree with:
Sneasel to C+
Honchkrow to lower
Houndoom to C, i think C+ is too high.
Barbaracle to A
Diancie to B
 
I'd like to nominate one Pokemon which is not strictly RU, but is good here: Pinsir from unranked to C / C-

pinsir.gif


Pinsir (F) @ Buginium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker / Moxie
EVs: 192 Atk / 64 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge / Earthquake


This set has good late game sweeping potential, and a good mid-game sweeper. It can set up on Defensive Pokemon like Milotic and Golisopod or passive walls like Cresselia and Bronzong, and once it sets up a Swords Dance, is effective in taking out tanky offensive Pokemon like Mandibuzz, Shaymin, Blastoise Mega, Gardevoir, Necrozma and Bronzong, and with Webs Support, can further take out faster threats like Entei, Virizion and Zygarde-10% . However, this set cannot handle physically defensive Pokemon like Rhyperior, Mega Steelix, Gligar and Doublade even with EQ. This fact can also be used to force switch-ins into these to enable Pokemon like Ninetails or Salazzle to switch in and get a free Nasty Plot setup turn to sweep these Pokemon. Furthermore, it also needs Hazard removal because Rocks, Spikes, TSpikes all hurt him. The ZMove usually is needed to take out bulkier threats like Milotic and Feraligatr (after a Swords Dance). In addition to this, Pinsir also can't handle faster special Pokemon like Moltres, Noivern or Swellow, or Pokemon which had setup previously, like Dragon Danced Tyrantrum or Shell Smashed Cloyster. Overall, Pinsir has decent antimeta potential, and so, I'd like to nominate it for C / C+.

Edit: Many edits later, this one was to iterate the fact that the Defense invested is specifically for this:
(After a Swords Dance) 0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 64 Def Pinsir: 271-319 (84.4 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 192 Atk Pinsir Savage Spin-Out (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 339-399 (79.9 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 64 Def Pinsir: 222-263 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
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Thanks to the RU council for helping with this update :)

Ranking update:

Milotic A --> A+
Tyrantrum S --> A+
Entei A+ --> S
Roserade A- —> A+
Blastoise-mega A+ --> S
Barbaracle B+ --> A
Mandibuzz S --> A+
Slowbro --> Added to C+
Escavalier A- --> B
Ampharos-mega B- --> B+
Flygon A- --> B
Vikavolt --> Added to C-
Minior --> Added to C
Salazzle A+ --> B+
Steelix-mega A+ --> A
Glalie-mega B+ --> B
Golisopod A —> B+
Registeel B+ —> A-
Diancie B- --> B
Doublade B+ --> A-
Marowak-Alola --> Added to B-
Passimian --> Added to C
Torterra --> Added to c
Dhelmise & Moltres --> Unranked


Reasoning:

Doublade has moved up due to the great utility it has in this meta in checking Barbaracle, Pursuiting Bronzong, Roserade, and checking other important Pokemon like Gardevoir and Tyrantrum. Nidoqueen has dropped because it has been out of favor for a long time. Nidoqueen cannot break common defensive cores without having the perfect move for its given matchup and struggles to keep up with faster offensive teams where it gets few switch-ins.

Golisopod has moved down because the meta has largely adapted to its presence with Pokemon like Registeel and Noivern becoming increasingly common. Roserade moved up because of its fantastic LO set that allows it to break common balance teams, while having the speed tier to keep up with various offensive threats, making it a consistent breaker in many matchups.

Steelix-mega has moved down due to the increasing competition it faces with other Steels and occupying a mega slot that many teams would rather allocate to Mega Blastoise. Ampharos has moved up due to its great potential as a breaker that's capable of exploiting common water/steel balances. Drapion has moved up because of its great utility as a Pursuit user and for its proficient SD sets.

Reasoning on C ranks (thanks to col49 for writing this):

Minior - While it competes as Shell Smash user with the much more versatile Barbaracle, Minior maintains a couple unique traits. Shields Down allows Minior to set up freely against Pokemon reliant on Toxic to punish boosting, notably allowing it to grab 1-2 boosts against Registeel when healthy and netting turns against Gligar almost unconditionally. Furthermore, the reliance on Acrobatics for STAB inadvertently opens up the option of an alternative Z move user.

Torterra - Torterra was ranked for its Swords Dance + Synthesis set, which makes the most of its niche in this metagame. As an offensive threat, most conventional responses to physical attackers (Milotic, Gligar, etc.) struggle to respond to it, while Torterra's merit as a Rock resist is valuable in a metagame that is so friendly to Tyrantrum and Barbaracle. Its low speed, tendency to trade damage for status or at worst risking Scald burns, and inability to effectively break down common Pokemon such as [Foul Play] Mandibuzz and Noivern make it a Pokemon needing build-around to strive, but this niche is enough to be worth highlighting.

Passimian - Passimian's good physical bulk, access to U-Turn, and [Stealth] Rock resistance offer it a niche as a Choice Scarf user in the current metagame. Similarly to Scarf Tyrantrum, Passimian is able to loosely check problematic Pokemon for teams (in this case opposing Tyrantrum) while doubling as an adequate cleaner, but by cracking the 284 Speed tier (allowing it to tie Gardevoir and outpace both Tyrantrum and the occasional Feraligatr) and relying upon an accurate STAB with arguably lesser drawbacks distinguishes it further.

Vikavolt - Beyond its obvious merits as a strong special attacker, Vikavolt is ranked for its ability to play into would-be counters thanks to it's combination of decent bulk and access to Roost and Levitate; Pokemon such as Steelix and Gligar that forgo Toxic find themselves unable to directly pressure Vikavolt and thereby are slowly whittled away by repeated use of Bug Buzz. This aforementioned bulk and access to recovery, alongside the Substitute-piercing ability of Bug Buzz, also grant it a heightened longevity in responding to Grass-types such as Shaymin and Rotom-C, further distinguishing it from competing Electric-types such as Ampharos.

Some of the council may post to elaborate on these changes or discuss ones that I did not, so stay tuned.


Discussion Points:

Barbaracle A --> A+
Mandibuzz A+ --> A
Rotom-C B+ --> B
 
glad we got an update, now for the discussion points

-> A+

Barbaracle has been terrorizing the metagame for quite a while now, and got even better with the departure of mega slowbro and mega sceptile. anyway we all know what barb does at this point which is beating the shit out of everything and possibly just winning from preview against lazy builders (i can relate). also gets to pick its checks and counters with its last slot which is p nice

-> B

rotom has been falling off for quite some time unfortunately. a defogger that can't beat two very prevalent rockers- bronzong and registeel - and flat out gets fucked over every time by roserade is just really bad. losing to big fire type threats like ninetales and entei that have been making their marks on the meta doesn't do rotom any favors either. all it really does is beat milotic (every good grass does this and way more- viriz / shaymin can bust defensive cores rose is absolutely incredible atm), defog against defog against like 2 rockers or something, and give volt switch / wisp support. i dont see the point in using this unless you're really desperate for role compression

something of my own

-> higher somewhere

this girl is so good, trapper that has some actual power behind its hits unlike drapion + it can actually revenge kill some faster things like virizion. anyway i dont have much to say, here are some replays of it trapping things and letting me win 1 2

not much else to say other than that i think mandi can stay in a+ solely for its taunt toxic set and that mega abomasnow can drop a rank or two
 
Since roman alredy said what should be done with barb and rotom (the same arguments can be used for the heat form too imo, he should drop too ) and i dont really have a strong opinion on mandi, im gona make a nom on my own.

Yanmega to A.

Yanmega with moltres gone from the tier, escava and salazzle losing viability, slowbro getting popularity and grass type being a good type overall, is only getting better. Access to u turn help him handle passive steel types like registeel or florges, and now that rocks are more easily to take out thanks to mons like mega stoise or gligar he can enter the battlefield without problem. Now that most of the virizion wouldnt run stone edge without moltres in the tier, he can easily be used as a counter, and its good speed tie and bulk (86/86) make a bit difficult to revengkill with priority, for example
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 149-176 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 145-172 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 66% chance to 2HKO
92 Atk Abomasnow-Mega Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 134-162 (42.8 - 51.7%) -- 60.2% chance to 2HKO after hail damage (o yeah let this mon drops too thanks)
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 133-157 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 195-230 (62.3 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

So yeah make mega aboma and the two rotoms drop, and let yanmega barb and sneasel rise.
 
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Extremely aggrovating to deal with. It is among the tiers deadliest cleaners and something all teams should take into account on their threatlist. It's last moveslot gives it a surprising amount of versatility giving enabling it to heat a would be check. Also has ample setup opportunities and can't easily be revenge killed unless you have a really fast scarfer.


Not too hot a mon in this meta. Generally speaking I don't really find many teambuilding scenarios I would pick this over the tiers other top offensive grass unless you really need all of what it does in one slot but at that point it just becomes a jack of all trades master of none. Stuff like virizion,shaymin,and rose are way more effective at abusing the tiers fat waters and virizion in particular compresses a ton of roles for teams making it way easier to fit, and shaymin/rose have far more reliability making them far more consistent in most matchups.


I guess this can stay at A+ because toxic + taunt is a really good stall breaker and stopping utility moves but wouldn't be too mad if it dropped to A. Not much else to say about it


And for a few noms of my own:

Vanilluxe to C: Complete lack of defensive utility makes it hard to justify over the tiers other wallbreakers. Plus compared to the other mons in C+ it doesn't really have that much of a defined niche compared to them(tsareena is a viable spinner on teams with a different water type, lycanroc can revenge kill dangerous stuff with its strong priority and can be a reasonable cleaner once fat rock resists like rhyperior are out of the way, goodra gives teams a way to deal with shaymin + can check ninetales to an extent). C rank I think better reflects it's viability due to how hard it is to fit on a team.

Quagsire to D rank: basically it only fits on stall and even there its outclassed by Pyukumuku which is already a below average mon. Unaware doesn't save it for some set up mons regardless as they just blow past its mediocre bulk through sheer power like bewear, and the stuff that it does beat with unaware it barely does because any prior damage and it gets 2hkod.
 
I agree with the reasonings above and i want to nom another mon:

Gurdurr to C Rank: With the rise of Barbaracle, I started to see (and suffer) this mon in some RU Open games as his check. Is a good answer to it and it can become a potencial wincon with Bulk Up + Recovery with Drain Punch and a good priority in Mach Punch. It can also remove some crucial Items as Eviolite or Lefties with Knock Off.
 
hi
i kept things short so you might actually read it

> A+
Seconding this, many people have already taken pains to articulate why above and I have nothing major to add.


> A
Very solid defensive typing, but rather poor matchup removal wise, and being overshadowed by Blastoise, means this thing really needs to own its defensive niche's to find a spot on a team, while often not contributing a lot, in a metagame where every slot in the builder needs to fit a lot of roles.


> A -
Nasty plot can be incredibly threatening for balance, but it faces competition from Entei and now Marowak-A, which can fit more roles and generally require less support to segue onto a team. Further, the metagame is increasingly aggresive, to the point where hardcore corebreakers like Ninetales are not always necessary over strong wallbreakers like Entei.

> B
Fast aggresive trapper, threatens numerous grasses, can run low kick to suprise a lot of traditional switchins, definitely has a spot on the metas most aggressive builds

> A
I don't know why this is at B+, when it can switch into Entei and Tyrantrum, some of the scariest breakers in the tier, while providing rocks support (yes ik Entei has a chance to burn but its Entei that's literally what it does you godamn omastar users just accept ur rock is getting burned and move on with your life already). This thing can also run ice punch to rock on Gligar, which has been very popular as of late, megahorn to threaten grass switchins, and sd to prevent curselax from winning. All around a really solid and versatile rocker for a lot of squads.

+
> B-
Both a victim of being overshadowed by opportunity cost, with Blastoise providing spin support while providing consistent offensive pressure, and Mega Ampharos being a much stronger breaker. While they both can have their respective niches, neither can consistently be more useful, and its very hard to find extra room on builds for mons that aren't providing multifaceted role compression atm.

> C+
Zygarde does DD better, Choice Scarf is an ineffectual nightmare to use.

>B+
It's hard to point to a lot with this mon given its newness, but with SD it can trade itself for Milotic, and is generally a terrifying threat to switch into, while being able to compress rocks into one set. B- is way short shrift for this, but time will see.

> B
SD panda is very scary, carving a niche over Bewear with a stronger Drain Punch, and Bullet punch making it so Gardevoir and Roserade can't revenge it safely after an SD. It is far more viable than its fellow B- counterparts.

> C
This is not inherently bad, but does not in any way have a large enough niche over Barbarcle at any one thing to make a preferred team option.

that seems good for now
this listing is progressively more accurate
: )
 
Hlelo I really only have one thing to mention but it's a cool mon and helps a lot with some of the standard builds running around:

to C-

Golem-Alola does one thing and one thing only, but does it pretty darn well: it traps Regi/Bronzong/Escavalier for extremely powerful metagame threats. Here's the set I ended up running:

Golem-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Explosion

Extremely easy to explain honestly, Fire Punch beats Bronzong and Escavalier, EQ beats Registeel, Wild Charge hits waters and stuff like Mandibuzz for good damage (jolly outspeeds both and still traps the other things, so I went with that). Boom is just nice when you're done with it and want the momentum. Here's one replay of mine and two from others to support it:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-774958241 Basically trapped the Bronzong and made Z-Celeb Shaymin win super easily.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-773974329 Same thing, traps the Escavalier to make life easier for Garde and Shaymin, then gets free damage and a free sack because it did everything it needed to.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-775295475 Different take on it as a rock setter, but you can see it did its job once again getting free turns on the Bronzong and rocks up for Shaymin. I think it's a bit more risky since I'd rather have the steel dropped cleanly, but it was effective (Durza fully supports this nom btw).

I'll try looking at the other stuff and see if I have something to contribute, but this imo definitely has a small but worthwhile niche.
 
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to further piggyback off of what my darling friend evigaro has said about golem-a, the ability to trap things in this game is inherently overpowered. as of right now many teams heavily depend on their steel types to cover/check fairy/grass types. after successfully eliminating the steel type even extremely common mons like scarf garde can be troubling to deal with. this general over-dependence mixed with how effectively golem is able to trap these steels makes it actually pretty good. surprisingly golem's utility actually does not end there as golem acts as a decent check to a pokemon that has recently picked up massive popularity, noivern. especially when considering the set that noivern is running right now (z fly without dragon stab) this could change in the future but as of now its pretty effective. furthermore golem is actually strong and has decent offensive coverage so it can be pretty threatening even outside of pressuring steel types. now its also worth mention that there is a reason evi has only nommed it for c-. when going over the positives of the mon it sounds dandy but it also has many important shortcomings as well. to list a few its overwhelming lack of speed, it defensive typing is generally quite poor (can't even check most flying types can only check noivern because ppl aren't using dragon moves rn), and its difficulty to fit on a team. worst of all of these flaws with golem is the fact that it is so reliant on matchup. golem for the most part has the potential to decimate lazy balance teams with mons like registeel, zong but versus certain offense builds golem is just straight up worthless. this dependence on matchup makes golem an extremely volatile pokemon which is what is pretty much what is holding it back from greatness in the ru tier. when weighing pros and cons its clear that golem is gimmicky, fun to build with, and fun to use but by no means a top tier mon so i agree with c- as of now.
 
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I would like to nominate Charizard to a C+ ranking. Charizard niche before moltres moved up was as a fun sun abuser. This was basically the only situation where it could be justified using a Zard over a Moltres. With Moltres gone, Charizard has found even more of a niche on Stall teams. Zard can basically be a poor mans moltres. It can still beat the common stealth rockers and hazard setters in the tier (Registeel, Bronzong, Nidoqueen (non t-bolt), Rhyperior(If grassium Z), foretress, golispode(Z- air slash/ air slash), Araquinid(Z-air slash) and Chesnaught). This allows Zard to make its SR weakness not a huge deal as it can switch on on a majority of SR and threaten them out and defog away the hazards that they just set up.

Also it defensive typing allows this thing to check stuff that is usually probalematic to stall teams. Stuff like Escavalier and Drapion (also naturally outspeeds both) can be checked by Charizard. Moltres was often times what allowed stall to be so potent in RU. Now, Charizard can do a similar role.

While this may just seem good in theory, it actually also works in practice too. I have already got my RU reqs and got the highest gxe on the ladder (as of this post), in part, due to Charizard. I have 1 good replays showcasing Zard (Sorry forgot to save most of my matches). In this match Zard was able to deal with the teams stealth rocker (Nidoqueen). It was able to switch in on this and also pick up a surpise KO on Nidoqueen. This allowed me freely switch between mons as there was no fear of rocks on the field.

Kendrick (Charizard) @ Firium Z
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 20 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Defog

When I was running Zard this was my favorite set to use. The evs allows it to hit 242 speed and and also have the same special attack as moltres. The rest just goes to Hp and defense as most of its the stuff it checks is physical. I choose firium z because allows the most power in a z move. It also allows it to check pangoro due to the fact Pangoro cannot knock off zard's item. The z move also allows you to be able to switch in on a predicted trick and make sure that no mon is choice locked. Blaze is a better option due to the fact sun is kinda rare. It can also end up hurting you as it may make you lose health in sun. Blaze can also boost z firium if at a low amount of health. Other options include grassium z for milotic and rhyperiot and flyium z for fighting types.

The team around Zard was actually surpisingly good. I would an RMT about it, but it was basically Ov3r Ac3's stall team with a few adjustments. So, I believes this proves that zard can be a replacement on Moltres on stall teams. It has difficulty on other playstyles as it doesnt have the same fire power as Moltres, but it doesnt really need to on stall teams.

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rususpecttest-780860623
 
Kingdra B- to B. I've been using a Timid Sniper set with Substitute and Surf, and I feel Kingdra is very consistent at breaking down balance cores that are using water types to blanket check water types and steel types to blanket check special attackers. It can take a lot of maneuvering to really get it to break - not unlike most B-rank breakers - but it has all the tools it needs to really bust open a lot of generic builds at the moment and it can exploit its typing to create mindgames with sub and then bust open teams. And its one of the few set-up sweepers who not only beats both Quag and Pyuku but sets up on them as well.

I had trouble getting good replays of this because people kept switching in their Milotics or no-Psywave Bronzongs into it but it's good I swear.

Florges B- to B. Decent check to Blastoise, Shaymin, Noivern, Virizion (sort of), Yanmega, Ampharos, pretty much any special attacker that doesn't hit it super effectively, has multiple sets that all sort of do different things. I feel like its a threat to prepare for moreso than the entire rest of B- bar Kingdra, Pyukumuku and Marowak, and two of those are wallbreakers. I think its on Chesnaught/Umbreon's level as a bulky mon.

on the discussion slate

Barb should move up, it's good and can exploit good mons like Entei to set up (it doesn't actually care that much if its burned vs offense, all you want is the speed tbh). When I see one in team preview, I often feel like I have to play very aggressively the whole game just in case. It has a very free last moveslot which can lead to it running stuff like Grass Knot, Protect, or Aerial Ace or whatever and blowing away a potential check.

Mandi should move down, it's still an excellent defogger and excellent defensive check to a lot of good mons but the meta is very ready for it. I never really think about how I might need to play around Mandibuzz the way I think I need to play around Milotic, Gligar, or even Bronzong. I also generally feel that the stuff it checks is somewhat down in usage and the stuff it checks is up, but that could just be perception.

Rotom-C sucks I'd be fine with it going into B. While it does defog on certain rockers, and forces out milotic, it loses miserably to a lot of good rockers and many teams have multiple good switchins to it naturally, causing it to throw momentum in a lot of situations despite being a pivot.
 
When Mega Sceptile was banned one of the reasoning about his departure was his very high speed, that allows him to outspeed both Scarf Gardevoir and Scarf Tyrantrum, two the most common scarfers in the actual RU metagames, making him very difficult to revengekill. Well, there's still one pokemon having this one single characteristic while still having some sort of viability.


Accelgor @ Life Orb / Buginium Z
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Spikes
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Encore / U-Turn / Focus Blast / Sludge Bomb / Final Gambit / Recover / Knock Off / Energy Ball

Accelgor has a very unique niche in the metagame, being capable of covering different roles in the current with some success. Standing on with a very high speed he's an optimal choice for teams who needs spikes support and still need some sort of speed control (pls don't use Scarf Spikes Roserade). He's typing and movepool makes him very strong vs some high ranks Pokemon like Shaymin and Gligar (hes excellent at spike stacking against defog Gligar, being also pretty resilient to Knock Off) while having very good MU against teams that have Scarf Garde/Tyrant as form of speed control. Orb Bug Buzz can hit pretty hard if not resisted, while HP Ice gave him the capability to deal with the nasty bat who could otherwise remove your juicy Spikes. I'm still testing on the 4th move, all the listed one can have some sort of niche in the metagame but Im still unsure what could be the ideal move (it seems dependant on the matchup btw). While having some sort of strengths, Accelgor still lacks some points to make it to the big show, it really doesn't have a way to touch Fire types (Sludge Bomb and FBlast can be annoying but they are very unreliable) while most of the Ghost types and Poison Types in the tier just straight-up hardwall him, taking all this in consideration with his poor defenses and weakness to hazards plus the need to pack a Life Orb to be somehow consistent we can say it certainly has clear weaknesses. Some of his weaknesses can be assisted with the presence of a bulky water that can have optimal MU against Fires and Ghosts (yea, Milotic clearly comes to mind) but still I think you really have to be in a precise phase of your teambuilding to prefer Accelgor over something else.

Here are some calcs to prove that's not completely garbage :blobthumbsup:
252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 182-218 (54.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 142-168 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 243-289 (79.4 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blastoise-Mega: 142-168 (47.4 - 56.1%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 320-377 (93.8 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery wait this one sucks-
252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Hidden Power Ice vs. 168 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 343-406 (97.1 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 153-182 (42 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Accelgor Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Steelix-Mega: 244-289 (68.9 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


for all I stated I'm nomming it for C-/C (I don't really gets how mons are ranked down there, there are some C- I think are better then some C, while some C actually stands out from the pool idk)

I still don't have a lot of replays, so I will post them when I have them and if they are needed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Hello everyone, this time im gonna nominate

Torterra C ---> C+/B-


Ok when i actually saw this being ranked i was "wtf is this a joke" so i decided to try it. And o my god if that was worth it. Grass-Ground is really a scary combination in this meta, being blocked effectively only by Bronzong, Shaymin, Rotoms, Mandibuzz, Noivern and Yanmega. He has a decent speed that let him outspeed most of the more used defensive mons like Milotic, registeel, and Gligar.
Its great defensive type combined with great defensive stats make make him really difficult to kill, and synthesis is a good recovery move.
This is the set ive been using.

Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 156 HP / 64 Atk / 40 Def / 248 Spe
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Synthesis
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

156 hp with 40 def and impish nature allows torterra to tank an ice punch from toxicroak at full and easily survive an +2 liquidation from barbaracle.
252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Ice Punch vs. 156 HP / 40+ Def Torterra: 312-369 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
248 speed make Torterra faster then the mons alredy mentioned before.
156 hp are even enough to beat ice beam milo in 1v1
0 SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 156 HP / 0 SpD Torterra: 296-352 (80 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The team i used: https://pokepast.es/d8fd1b28d299d084

Torterra needs really little support to actually do something, and most of the better mons in the tier give him the support he needs. Thats why in my opinion torterra should rise, and comparing him to the other mons in the C rank, i think hes actually better then them all.

Edit: Fixed with Lep spread, thanks bud
 
Last edited:

The Leprechaun

life is getting quite exciting
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 156 HP / 64 Atk / 116 Def / 172 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Synthesis
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
you maintain the same speed stat and gain 6 points in defence with this spread which allows you to avoid toxicroak ice punch ohko 100% of the time :)

Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 156 HP / 64 Atk / 40 Def / 248 Spe
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Synthesis
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
 

Senpai D.M

さようなら
is a Tiering Contributor

Accelgor @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Final Gambit
- Bug Buzz
- Encore

A fun set ive been spamming for a while now and I agree it should at least be ranked. This set is good even with all the hazard removers because of final gambit preventing removal and can be used to attack as well. Bug buzz is just chip and hits espeons that switch in for some reason lol and lastly encore is p helpful for set up sweepers with Accelgors speed it can outspeed most of the tier and encore also can help set up set up sweepers.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-790583510 - not the best replay but it shows exactly what I said above
 
I agree with the guy above which nominated Houndoom, Houndoom its one of the best answer against Ninetales in the tier, probably the best offensive answer because not only its inmune to their strong STAB but also takes advantage of that thanks to Flash Fire and takes advantage from Drought to boost Fire Blast.

Offensively Houndoom can break steel/milo balance cores and its a great stallbreaker against the most fat hard stalls if you decides to use Taunt as last move. Houndoom is not the most threatening pokemon in the tier clearly, but Houndoom does pretty well against certain matchups. This is why I think has to be ranked in the VR, probably C or even C+
 
this thread is dead lol


from S rank to A+ rank: Honestly I dont think Shaymin its worth S rank anymore, mostly because has a newsworthy 4mss syndrome, Noivern popularity that beats every Shaymin set unless you runs Hidden Power Ice, Shaymin was used to get lot of free switch against stuff Milotic and Mega-Blastoise but now bulky waters are running Ice Beam which makes Shaymin a worse switch in. Shaymin also finds a fierce competition with other grasses in RU: Roserade with a better coverage thanks to their double STAB, technichan and being able to run Spikes for a more utility overall, Virizion with SD or CM and Z moves its another big competitor because its able to break bulkier teams way easier than Shaymin (cant pass threats such like Registeel, Mandibuzz, etc). Even finds competition with more anti-meta grasses types such like Mega-Abomasnow and Chesnaught which can fit better on certain teams than Shaymin. Personally I think the only pokemon that deserves to be ranked at S rank its Mega-Blastoise.


from A rank to A+ rank: Noivern after SPL metagame got specially popular, specially at high-level games (you only have to watch ru slam, snake games, other tournaments in RU). I think Noivern versatility along with their Speed makes it one of the scariest threats to face in RU atm. Its one of most fast pokemon in RU which gaves you a amazing speed control along with a very good versatility, you can use Devasting Drake Noivern to destroy common Noivern checks as Rhyperior or Rotom-H. Noivern has few solid answers which can check pretty much beat all set like Diancie, Porygon2 and Assault Vest Slowking but even Taunt + Super Fang Noivern in the long run can beat them.



from A+ rank to A rank: Mandibuzz dont fit well on lot of teams, its very good but only on certain balance builds (and stall teams obviously). You need support because Mandibuzz its a bit underwhelming against more offensive / bulky offensive that pressure well Mandibuzz and basically dies doing nothing. I think A rank seems a more accurate rank.


from A- rank to A rank: I should rank Registeel on the same level as Bronzong, both of them are a bit different but I should say they are both equally good. Registeel has some advantages over Bronzong to list: no pursuit weak and its a better tank cause its bulkier against certain threats such like Roserade, CB Tyrantrum spamming Head Smash that actually 2hko SpD Bronzong, Yanmega, etc.


from B- rank to B rank: Aerodactyl its solid pokemon to use atm With Noivern popularity, Aerodactyl its a good offensive check if you're tired to use more defensive Noivern checks, also Aerodactyl its a great check to Ninetales and Salazzle, its a great addition to your team if you need some speed control.

People needs to stop using Pursuit Aerodactyl, thats a bad set. Taunt + Roost @ Life Orb its the only way to go, so you can beat Gligar and Registeel, pressures better Milotic, Cresselia and Pyukumuku stall teams. Also helps against certain threats such like Doublade to prevent from Sword Dance in your face.


from C- rank to C+ rank: this thing its too low in C- rank, its a good pokemon to trap certain threats such Bronzong, Meloetta or Roserade. Good speed + Ice Shard which is good to RK Virizion or Noivern. Generally its worse than Drapion because lack of defensive utility and its really frail but on certain teams fits better cause its stronger + faster + gets priority and threats Gligar.
 

CryoGyro

far from basic
is a Contributor to Smogon
Absolutely agree with the Shaymin, Mandibuzz, and Registeel nominations. (Aero and Sneasel are ones I can't comment on)


Noivern in A+ is something I'm much less sure about. It's no doubt effective, don't go thinking I dislike it, but it just doesn't live up to what I consider worthy of the rank. With how it practically requires a Z-Crystal to be a reliable revenge killer (making it somewhat restrictive to build with), is pretty susceptible to getting bopped by coverage moves, and is left helpless once something faster hits the field (Speed-boosting sweepers, Choice Scarf users, the occasional Aero or Swellow), it's just not something that you can slap on a team without a care in the world and still do decently with like Milotic, Gligar, or Scarf Garde. Its risk-filled STAB attacks in Hurricane and Draco Meteor aren't nearly as spammable as Ninetales's or Tyrantrum's, and it lacks a particularly amazing combination of prowess and utility like Roserade. Overall, it's a respectable Pokemon that rewards good building and play, but cannot work just about anywhere like A+ would imply.


C+ -> B-
I've found that fitting decent switch-ins to both Shaymin and Roserade on bulky offense can be a pain, and that's where Goodra comes in from obscurity. The Choice Specs set has proven itself to be pretty nifty when I can fit it, taking any sort of special punishment to OHKO back, having the coverage to threaten almost anything after forcing a Grass-type out, and being an emergency check to Milotic, but the real surprise here is the Choice Scarf set I only tried thanks to roman's insistence on it being effective. With an identical Speed tier, a decently strong Draco Meteor, the aforementioned great coverage, and enough special bulk to take a hit when it can only 2HKO, it makes for a pretty solid alternative revenge killer to Gardevoir that holds its own niche in consistently forcing out Grass-types. (the surprise factor doesn't hurt either) Nothing can properly replace Moonblast and Healing Wish nor that raw cleaning power, of course, but that's why I'm only proposing a small rise.


B -> C
Cloyster's current rank is very possibly just something that's escaped notice until now, but B seems awfully high for something so soundly outclassed by Barbaracle. Cloyster has fewer resistances to use to set up, falls over if a special attacker so much as twitches, can't beat Water-types with STAB moves, and lacks a free moveslot it can use to screw over a specific kind of counterplay. It belongs down with its fellow hype-but-impractical sweepers.
 

Robert Alfons

DEHUMANIZE YOURSELF AND FACE TO BLOODSHED
is a Tiering Contributor
First of all, I strongly agree with ranking Houndoom C+ at the very least, while its power may seem disappointing compared to Ninetales, it has more defensive utility thanks to its ability to come in on Ninetales with ease and also gets interesting setup opportunity vs stuff like choice locked Drapion, Gardevoir locked into Psyshock/Psychic thanks to its Dark-type. Also, its great coverage with its STABs alone gives it room for Taunt, which is huge since it actually destroys stall teams that rely on Pyukumuku to beat NP Ninetales, and it also prevents stuff like Mandibuzz and Registeel from potentially getting a Toxic off as you're trying to set up. Underrated mon, easy to overlook but definitely a threat.

I agree with HnC's nominations except for Shaymin (I'd sooner move Roserade to S than Shaymin to A+ tbh, both are very threatening and meta-defining Pokemon atm) and Aerodactyl (I'd have to see more of it in action to be convinced that it deserves more than B-, Ttrum seems like a better Rock-type in most instances). Also, I kinda wanna see more of Accelgor and Torterra cuz idk how they really work in practice.

As for my own noms:

A -> B: Rankings should always reflect not only how good a Pokemon is in and of itself, but also how good it is compared to other Pokemon, and for my money Bronzong faces too much competition from the superior Registeel to be worthy of the A ranks atm. It does have its specific niches over Registeel that make it worth considering: better matchup vs non-Knock Off Gligar, lack of Fighting weakness, the ability to be more offensively threatening with Gyro Ball, and the ability to deal with Nidoqueen and Flygon are nice benefits you don't get from Registeel. However, the last point is less relevant than it used to be, with the current meta highly favoring bulkier SR setters and Zydog over respectively Nidoqueen and Flygon. Meanwhile, some other meta trends (Stoise being so common, Drapion becoming a prominent trapper) make it harder for Bronzong to do its job and stay healthy. In addition, Registeel's extra bulk cannot be underestimated: 80/150/150 vs 67/116/116 is a seriously big difference and has serious consequences for each respective mon's longevity, and many breakers Registeel can check to a degree (Specs Yanmega, CB Ttrum, Golisopod etc) simply blow past by Bronzong by spamming their STAB move. So basically, the meta favors Bronzong's direct competitor in Registeel and as a result, the rankings should reflect Registeel's superiority.

A- -> B-: That this thing remained so highly ranked for so long kinda pisses me off, since it's a really awkward pick for most teams. Cress can be an alluring option, since its obnoxious bulk allows it to check a ton of threats at once, but unlike a lot of prominent walls, Cress offers very little outside of its ability to be fat. One obvious issue is that it can't do anything whatsoever to threaten Steel-types, and in this meta you'll want to run a Steel-type 9 out of 10 times because you need that kind of defensive utility on your team. Unlike other top tier walls, it cannot do much to actually threaten the opposing team: Milotic is fairly powerful and can spread burns, Gligar can Defog/set rocks and gain momentum with U-Turn, Registeel/Mega Lix/Bronzong can set rocks, Mandibuzz can Knock shit, but what can Cresselia really do? The aforementioned omnipresence of Steels makes it impossible to do much chip to your opponent's team, and Cress has no utility moves to speak of other than Lunar Dance. Since it's basically a dumb wall that provides very little for teams in a meta this offensive, I think it's fair to rank it alongside another stall staple in Pyukumuku, or at least knock it out of the A ranks.

B- -> C: Jellicent's niche is pretty minuscule, Milotic is a more reliable pick on the vast majority of teams and it happens to be just about the only true counter to (arguably) the number 1 threat in the meta (Mega Blastoise) and generally takes on everything it needs to wall a lot better than Jelli does. I guess what makes Jellicent appealing mostly boils down to its ability to beat non-Knock Off Toxicroak, which other Water-types can't do, and its ability to come in on Milo, although it doesn't do too much in return anyway. Being able to Taunt Registeel is nice I guess. Still, I don't think it's worth ranking this highly when it faces stiff competition as a bulky Water from Milotic and Mega Blastoise (as well as Slowking, Araquanid, Golisopod).

A- -> A: Speaking of which, Toxicroak has become a dominant force in the meta and I think the rankings ought to reflect that. Like most offensive threats in the A ranks, Toxicroak is very difficult to handle defensively thanks to its great coverage (which can be customized, with for example Knock Off providing you with a way to handle Doublade and beat Haze Milo more easily), but what sets it apart from something like Meloetta or Yanmega for me is its ability to come in several times and remain healthy thanks to its powerful Drain Punch and its unique typing + Dry Skin allowing for a decent amount of switchin opportunity. Having LO Sucker Punch is also incredibly useful in a meta that sorely lacks great priority users otherwise. The surge of some things like Ice Beam Milotic and Doublade make Toxicroak's life a bit more difficult, but to me this is just testament to how good it is in the meta and how easily it rips apart defensive cores when they do not properly account for the frog. Lastly I should mention that Scarf Croak has recently become more of a thing, further expanding its versatility. In this meta, offensive threats that provide more utility than "it breaks things" are extremely good, and Croak fits right into that category, so imo it should be up there with the best of them.

B -> C: KW nominated this down quite a while ago and I agree with him (not so much with a Mega Aboma drop, or at least not to B-), but I think B- is still too merciful. As a breaker, Mega Glalie tends to struggle too much with some of the biggest defensive threats in the tier such as Milotic, Registeel, and Doublade to be worth of your mega slot, so its main niche is that of an offensive Spiker. Four problems arise: first of all, although it gets Freeze-Dry it still kinda struggles with Mega Blastoise, the top hazard remover in the tier alongside Gligar. Secondly, it has huge competition from prime offensive Spiker Roserade, which does beat Blastoise and is a more threatening breaker to boot thanks to its excellent coverage options and access to Sleep Powder. Furthermore, it faces competition from two of the best Pokemon in the tier (Mega Blastoise, which would have been an excellent partner for Glalie otherwise, and Mega Steelix) by virtue of occupying the Mega slot. Finally, because it is a Spiker that is extremely weak to hazards, you're practically forced to run either Donphan, Forretress, or Xatu to keep hazards off the field while you try to set your own, and none of these are known to be amazing Pokemon. This is without even going into problems you'll struggle with in teambuilding afterwards due to the complete lack of defensive utility Glalie provides + the fact that you have to run a fairly mediocre Pokemon alongside it. My point being, Glalie is far too niche to be deserving of the B ranks, and I wouldn't even mind seeing it getting unranked at some point.

C+ -> D: Speaking of things that are not worth your time, this thing's ranking has been bugging me for a long time and I think it's time we did what's necessary. The fact of the matter is that Banette has no real niche that makes it worth using on a serious team and it takes up your Mega slot to boot. Defensively it's nothing worth writing home about, offensively it's too easily walled, its Prankster utility moves are a nuisance at best, as a spinblocker it obviously fails against Mega Blastoise, and in a meta where teambuilding is as difficult as it is you really don't have room for this thing.

C -> UR: The lower ranks could be deflated a little bit in general, this one for example really sucks since you're forgoing three amazing Grass-types for a mon that is too frail to defensively check the stuff you want it to like Zydog and too weak to dent anything, it's been in a few tour games as of late and in none of those games did it really do anything at all. Just really not worth using.

This post is getting too long so I'm gonna keep it short, but all of these mons could probably go unranked right now unless someone can prove they have a significant niche that actually makes them worth using over their competition: Cofagrigus, Smeargle, Tsareena (loses too hard to all common SR setters sorry), Hoopa (maybe not UR but could go lower cuz it's like impossible to fit on a team + Pursuit shits all over it), Galvantula, Delphox (maybe). Also, someone should nom Vaporeon, it's pretty decent tbh, definitely better than a lot of stuff in the C ranks.
 

MrAldo

Bird Enthusiast
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Pretty neat proposals and I certainly agree with most of them except the Bronzong one. The difference between Bronzong and Registeel isnt 2 whole sub ranks, period.

Bronzong certainly has some issues against promiment breakers but it has an easier time adapting to some things since it has a bit more of a respectable offensive presence compared to Registeel which cant even aim to do good damage to stuff like Zygarde and Barbaracle while Bronzong at the very least can make Zygarde-10% think twice about switching directly since gyro hurts the dog a lot and Bronzong can aim to run grass knot for barbaracle if it wants to (which can 3hko mega blastoise so isnt just for barb). So yeah, if we run both Bronzong and Registeel with very similar sets (Seismic toss Tect vs Psywave Tect) Registeel wins the battle by a gigantic margin since being mono steel has much more benefits. As I see Bronzong in current meta it really cant afford to run Psywave as it only mean of doing damage in this meta, if you wanna run tect zong may as well change to a Registeel RN. IMO Bronzong should be used a bit more aggressively since Gyro let it pressure stuff that Regi cant beat in a vacuum like Taunt Roost Noivern, Virizion, even making Sigilyph Roost on a Gyro switch-in is great to regain momentum on your side.

As I see right now if Bronzong were to drop, both Registeel and Bronzong should be on the same rank, A-. Both shine and drop on many prevalent matchups and that should be reflected on the ranking as 2 very similar options with added benefits, and that you shouldnt be running Bronzong like it is a Registeel right now. Dealing good damage to Noivern, Virizion, Zygarde and stuff is as prevalent as non being pursuit weak and being to pivot into Golisopod and Tyrantrum. The difference of effectiveness isnt 2 sub ranks.

And let me explain some of the lower ranked mons:

- Tsareena as a spinner is certainly unranked material but the Choice Band set is pretty cool imo. Choice Band Power Whips hurt like a bitch and Knock Off alongside High Jump Kick give it neat coverage to hit many common grass resists for good damage. Can also run U-Turn to preserve momentum and even Play Rough if you wanna hit Noivern and Dragons on the switch. Queenly Majesty also fucks up priority users like Golisopod and Zygarde being locked into it which can be pretty neat. I believe it deserves to be ranked based on the merits of that set, but not as a spinner.

- Cofagrigus makes use of a Ghostium Z Offensive Trick Room set pretty effectively even tho dark types becoming more prevalent (especially Mandibuzz which stops that set cold) sucks for it on the right matchup this mon can easily clean other teams cause many times teams either have a dark type or have no ghost resist at all. And the neat Physical Bulk give it a good amount of setup opportunities like Golisopod locked on a Bug-type move or Bewear locked into a STAB and stuff like Virizion that is too weak on neutral to do notable damage to it. Believe C- is fair for it right now, is a mon that can work from time to time.

No idea about Smeargle and Delphox tho. Dont have a single idea about what smeargle does and Delphox was ranked for a scarf set but with Barbaracle in the tier Scarf Salazzle is by far the most optimal option. No real opinion about Hoopa but Sub Nasty Plot is still rather functional so I guess.
 
Going over a few of the things mentioned, I do agree like others that Houndoom deserves to get back on the VR, as the stabs / NP / Taunt shows lots of promise as a breaker and surprising defensive utility in not only being an offensive hard check to Ninetales - really its main selling point - but also in resisting almost every priority in the tier that isn't used by Golisopod. Between that and a very good speed tier by virtue of outpacing two massive threats in Meloetta and Roserade, it's definitely a C to C+ mon in my eyes. I have very limited replays despite me building a ton with it but here's one where it cleaned up in seasonals: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-799443984 You could maybe argue that Ninetales would have done a lot there too, but resisting both Ice Shard and a potential Sucker Punch from Croak allowed me to be a bit more aggressive with it. It's also noteworthy that its damage output against Snorlax is significantly higher than Ninetales.

- Regarding Robert Alfons' post, I do agree with a Bronzong drop, because yeah it's alright but Pursuit is back in fashion and still causes it a lot of trouble. Registeel's added bulk is more appealing despite the added offensive pressure Bronzong can provide, but then you're wondering why you are not using Steelix because it's way bulkier and way stronger, and even if you are reluctant to give up the mega, Forretress has comparable offensive output, a momentum creating move, and can keep a lid on a potential Zydog sweep. You can do a lot of cute things with Bronzong, but consistently it's in my eyes hurting a lot, and its immunity isn't as a relevant as it used to be.

- Cresselia... could also probably drop. Although I do like its wonky coverage, fairly customizable spreads, and Lunar Dance, it being stopped dead in its tracks by any variant of Milotic + Steel is just terrible, which makes it annoying to build balance around, and puts a lot of pressure on the remaining five if you want to use Lunar Dance on more offensive teams.

- I do disagree - again! - on sending Banette to D rank though. It's still practically good on hyper offence teams, no matter how rare they are, despite it struggling heavily with Mandibuzz or Steelix, those are not the mons you really want it for on those teams anyway. C- sure, but nothing else fills up the niche it has on HO teams and no, Whimsicott fricking doesn't.

- Aldo covered Tsareena, and how the Choice Band is really what you should keep an eye on, but I'll add this: it's kinda wrong to say Tsareena struggles with rock setters. The combination of Power Whip and Low Kick effectively punishes all of them, and you can even tech either Knock or Aromatherapy for more on Bronzong / Gligar /Doublade or to prevent passive steels from tecting on you. Tsareena's problem as a spinner comes from middling bulk, subpar speed that needed a few points more for that role and that you will almost always miss a moveslot in game, despite being able to threaten rockers decently. I was toying with a Grassium + Aromatherapy set and while it's surprisingly decent, it's giving up a lot for what is still essentially support, and when you run Tsareena ideally you'd like a more offensive backbone.

One last thing, again alluded in Robert's post, that I do think should happen is Roserade making it to S, preferably alongside Shaymin dropping but I think it can be independently done. Roserade has been, alongside Blastoise-Mega, the most defining RU mon of the past few months, and it's not looking like it will stop anytime soon. The power it offers alongside its significant utility is incredible, on top of it having replies to almost anything the metagame can throw at it. The renewed popularity of z-move sets makes it even more difficult to cover, making Dragalge quite possibly your best bet to cover all options despite it dropping to two HP Ice if offensive. And like mentioned, in a Blastoise era, with so many mons being keen on outspeeding that thing, Roserade being able to check it on top of outspeeding everything below 90 makes it really darn valuable utility wise, being able to cover dangerous trends with its expansive support movepool and, unlike Shaymin, keeping an extremely potent offensive presence. Heck Soulwind even used Leech Seed in Open and that did a ridiculous amount of work. Shaymin does hold certain advantages over Roserade - bulk, a cute z-celebrate set, ground resist though watch out on that - but at best I feel like they apply concurrently to those of Roserade, as in you pick what fits best for your build, and less so about direct competition in terms of in game application, so having them both S rank isn't something I'd be concerned with.
 

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