Sableye

Don't forget that sableye has STAB Sucker Punch as well.
Yes, his attack is garbage but priority is nice and most targets will want to attack Sableye.
Even with completely uninvested attack, it still does an average of 65% to Starmie.
That will KO after Burn damage and LO recoil if Starmie switches into SR and WoW (or any 25% residual).
With priority Substitute, Sableye could even stall the additional turn since breaking a sub induces LO recoil in BW.
However, you'll end up with 4-movelost syndrome because you'll still want Recover, Taunt, and WoW.

EDIT: BTW, after looking it over I almost thought Sucker Punch and Recover are illegal together with Prankster Sableye.
However, while both Sucker Punch and Recover are egg moves in Gen V, 4th gen Sableye learn Sucker Punch by tutor.
So a 4th gen male Sableye with those moves should be a viable parent along with a Prankster female.

Another thing: Sableye has the same anti-CM reuniclus typing as Spiritomb.
Taunt + Dark STAB will beat it eventually since it can't recover or harm Sableye at all.
(Even the TR variant isn't entirely safe. Uninvested Sucker Punch 3HKOs and Sableye can be EVd to avoid a 2HKO from Shadow Ball)
Cool to see a totally useless Pokemon graduate. They give him Stall (?) then Prankster...crazy GF.
 
Could be difficult, depending on the set Starmie uses. The variant with 252 HP and 252 speed can be 2HKOed if we take hazard's damage into account. However Sableye has to watch out for the Specs-Starmie, because it can net a OHKO on it with Hydro Pump (neat one) or Surf (there is a chance, higher chance with hazards, neat KO with two layers). Life Orb Starmie wont't OHKO Sableye with Surf, but Hydro Pump will do it most of the time (again, always with at least one layer of hazards).

The real problem is, that s spinblocker doesn't act but has to react. In the case you switch in Rapid Spin: nice job; because of team preview it can happen that you actually switch in Surf, and even the 252 HP Starmie can 2HKO Sableye (besides spinner Starmie can Recover from the damage done, in which case Sucker Punch will fail).

I personally wouldn't spinblock Starmie with him, unless you are already on the field.
 
Ms. Denbo said:
I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but he doesn't seem like he can hang in OU with defenses like that. Whimsicott's Prankster let's it stay OU because it has decent enough bulk to make it worthwhile. Sableye's poor defenses make him very situational and allow no room for any mistakes whatsoever. I think he better suited to UU, where Pokémon aren't hitting quite as hard as they are in OU.
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I disagree with this. Whimsicott, like most Pranksters, is a workable gimmick that struggles to find a place in the competitive scene. Sableye might actually have what it takes to make OU.

Sableye succeeds because it has specific purposes that are actually useful in OU, and the right tools to make it work. The typing is amazing, being immune to Psychic, Fighting and Normal. The combination of Prankster + WoW is unique to Sableye, and gives it the ability to check physical attackers quite well. Taunt and Recover help it defensively, guarding against status ect. Priority Recover is essential for Sableye's success. Without it, the little ghost would just be another Whimsicott or Murkrow.

I think that the problem here is that you (people who don't get much out of Sableye) are using him incorrectly. He's not a wall, he's a pivot. You switch Sableye in, threaten a WoW, Taunt, Trick ect. then predict accordingly. You don't sit there and try to soak up hits, Sableye doesn't have the raw bulk to pull that off. It's a momentum grabber. The difference between Sableye and Whimsicott is that Sableye doesn't have to switch in on Encoreable moves, or rely on Leech Seed for healing (which doesn't support Whimsicott's hit-and-run style.)

Sableye being an Excadrill check and a hard counter for Calm Mind Reuniclus, among other things, should reinforce its place in OU. It has specific, useful niches. It's not a glue pokemon, but it can cover holes in your team.
 
Exactly what I've been using my lil' ghost for, JT Swift. I'm using Sableye on my developing team (which is kind of a bulky offense team, and a SpD Sableye set with WoW/Taunt/Recover/Night Shade), and it patches up sooo many holes and random weaknesses that I don't think I'm ever going to make a team without it again; it's constantly the MVP of my battles. The main thing is that awesome priority WoW, stopping roughly one bazillion threats that you just can't do otherwise with only 6 members. Sableye stops/checks/handicaps/stalls the bajesus out of things like Terrakion, Dragonite, Cloyster, DD Scrafty, previously mentioned Excadrill, any Reuniclus, stall teams of all sorts, and more and more things I can't list without making this post a million words. Our little ghost doesn't seem to have to be on a stall-oriented team to work like a lot of people may think, mainly because of its lack of ability to truly absorb hits.

<3 Sableye.
 
Any of you guys see a Mean Look set as being potentially viable? Maybe, something along the lines of:

~Mean Look
~Recover
~WoW/Toxic
~Taunt/Sub/Night Shade/Toxic/Protect

Seems like it might produce a good deal of rage if you could get it to work, but it might need too much set up to reach that point.

However, if that's not viable, while it is generally a terrible move and I acknowledge this may be a terrible idea, Sableye does have Leer to lower defenses with so maybe it could run some sort of Mean Look-Leer set to set up for a pursuit trapper. It seems like a crappy idea, but if you could get something in against Sableye that can't two-hit ko it could work. Seems to have big problems with 4ms though since you can't run Mean Look/Leer/Recover/WoW/Taunt at the same time.
 
melvni said:
Any of you guys see a Mean Look set as being potentially viable? Maybe, something along the lines of:

~Mean Look
~Recover
~WoW/Toxic
~Taunt/Sub/Night Shade/Toxic/Protect

Seems like it might produce a good deal of rage if you could get it to work, but it might need too much set up to reach that point.

However, if that's not viable, while it is generally a terrible move and I acknowledge this may be a terrible idea, Sableye does have Leer to lower defenses with so maybe it could run some sort of Mean Look-Leer set to set up for a pursuit trapper. It seems like a crappy idea, but if you could get something in against Sableye that can't two-hit ko it could work. Seems to have big problems with 4ms though since you can't run Mean Look/Leer/Recover/WoW/Taunt at the same time.
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problem is that sableye has serious 4 moveslot syndrome, its hard to give up anything on a sableye set
 
WoW stalling looks like a waste of Recovery's already low PP for me. Imo, Murkrow does a better job as a trapper since it got Perish Song and Feather Dance, which is better for trapper because it is accurate and effective - while the enemy can't switch out.
 
Daimond Eyes is my favorite pokemon hands down. I once ran attract and swagger. it was frustrating for the opponent to say the least.
 
Mean Look is a VERY good option over Confuse Ray on Sableye's standard set.

Sableye (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Recover
- Confuse Ray / Mean Look
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Mean Look is great for trapping stall, support-mons like Bronzong & Deoxys-S/D, and most notably Tyranitar & Scizor once you burn them.

What most people don't realize about this set, if they haven't been playing Dream World OU at all, is the EVs. It looks very thrown together, but it actually allows it to take hits from both sides reasonably well and perfectly take specific hits from OU threats. For instance, Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch will do 57.6% - 68.1% to Sableye meaning that if Sableye burns it after it's first Bullet Punch, Sableye is never 2HKOd with Leftovers. The reason that is important is Scizor is one of the few Physical Attackers that can hit Sableye before Will-O-Wisp burns it. If it doesn't run enough Defense, it will be forced to switch-out and come back in with less than 30% of it's HP left regardless of if WoW hits or not.

That's one big reason Sp.Defensive Sableye isn't standard in DW even though DW has FAR more Special Attacking threats than Standard OU (Serperior, Genesect, Keldeo, Swift Swimmers, Zapdos, etc.) but probably the biggest reason is that it doesn't really threaten Special Attackers at all. It might have a shot of stalling them out, but 50 Base HP & 65 Base Sp.Def really bites it in the ass. If you ever need to switch Sableye on a Special Attacker, you're far better off using Stun Spore Whimsicott or Haze + T-Wave Murkrow. Whimsicott at least has the typing to handle Special Attacks where Sableye has nothing it really needs outside immunity to Focus Blast & Psychic. (Normal/Poison is just a terrible immunity/resistance on the Special side.)

Whimsicott & Murkrow are about stealing momentum. Not Sableye. Sableye is about complete preventing momentum or stopping it very early on.

These sets you are throwing out have been around for months & months on PO's DW OU. I mean, seriously, here's the top 10 Sableye sets:

# 1 - 8.22 % (1574 battles)
Sableye @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Keen Eye (0.1 %) / Prankster (99.9 %)
Nature: Careful - EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef (17.1 %)

  • Recover
  • Confuse Ray
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Taunt
# 2 - 7.86 % (1505 battles)
Sableye @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Keen Eye (0.5 %) / Prankster (99.5 %)
Nature: Careful - EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef (15.2 %)

  • Night Shade
  • Recover
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Taunt
# 3 - 7.34 % (1406 battles)
Sableye @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Keen Eye (0.8 %) / Prankster (99.2 %)
Nature: Impish - EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef (22.0 %)

  • Recover
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Taunt
  • Foul Play
# 4 - 6.17 % (1181 battles)
Sableye @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Keen Eye (1.7 %) / Prankster (98.3 %)
Nature: Careful - EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef (57.6 %)

  • Recover
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Taunt
  • Knock Off
# 5 - 4.71 % (902 battles)
Sableye @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Prankster
Nature: Bold - EVs: 208 HP / 48 Def / 252 SDef (32.0 %)

  • Night Shade
  • Recover
  • Confuse Ray
  • Will-O-Wisp
# 6 - 3.53 % (675 battles)
Sableye @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Prankster
Nature: Careful - EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SDef (47.3 %)

  • Toxic
  • Recover
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Taunt
# 7 - 2.04 % (390 battles)
Sableye @ Wide Lens Lv. 100 -- Prankster
Nature: Bold - EVs: 164 HP / 92 Def / 252 SDef (100.0 %)

  • Recover
  • Confuse Ray
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Taunt
# 8 - 1.66 % (317 battles)
Sableye @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Prankster
Nature: Bold - EVs: 164 HP / 148 Def / 196 SDef (53.0 %)

  • Toxic
  • Recover
  • Substitute
  • Will-O-Wisp
# 9 - 1.54 % (295 battles)
Sableye @ Choice Scarf Lv. 100 -- Prankster
Nature: Bold - EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SDef (100.0 %)

  • Recover
  • Substitute
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Trick
# 10 - 1.31 % (251 battles)
Sableye @ Lagging Tail Lv. 100 -- Prankster
Nature: Modest - EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd (76.1 %)[Electric]

  • Toxic
  • Hidden Power
  • Taunt
  • Trick

http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/Past Stats/august-2011/DW OU/302.html

Even though DW has new threats, most of the current Pokemon in OU remain completely unchanged down to their EVs unless they got a new ability. Really the biggest difference is no team preview & Swift Swim, which just makes Grass-types & Water Absorb more common really. I still think DW tier is a really bad idea, (fun though) but PO's usage stats are a very good and VERY overlooked source of information regardless.
 
I know you're going by PO stats, but shouldn't set #3 be running a Bold nature (w/ a 0 Atk IV)? (to have maximum damage from Foul Play)
 
Cipher Admin Lovrina said:
Is it really good though? Or just a gimmick?
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I use it, and it's amazingly effective. I run set #3 from Katakiri's PO list, but with a Bold nature/0 Atk IV.

Trust me, Bold, w/ 0 Atk IV hits harder with Foul Play more often than not.

I'm only a wi-fier though. I'll hope that a reputable PO battler will confirm my claim.
 
I was thinking of using this. Should I just max out HP and SAtk?

Sableye@ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Modest Nature
EV:
- HP Fighting
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Calm Mind
 
Joel said:
I use it, and it's amazingly effective. I run set #3 from Katakiri's PO list, but with a Bold nature/0 Atk IV.

Trust me, Bold, w/ 0 Atk IV hits harder with Foul Play more often than not.
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I don't quite understand what you're saying here. I run the same thing with Bold and 0 ATK IV's, but that has no effect on Foul Play's damage output. Foul Play uses just the opponent's Attack stat, while - forgive me if I misunderstood- you're implying it's the difference between the two numbers, which it's not.

Mind you, I run Sableye that way, but for a different reason I think. I do that because I'm not using the Attack stat and all (as I usually do either Night Shade or Foul Play in the last slot), and in case something confuses me I minimize the self-inflicted damage. Given my luck, I'll run into something stupid like Foresight+DynamicPunch Machamp, or I'll get Confuse Ray'd by something else random, so I'm prepared with my crap 139 Attack stat to do the least damage to myself.
 
Seth Vilo said:
I don't quite understand what you're saying here. I run the same thing with Bold and 0 ATK IV's, but that has no effect on Foul Play's damage output. Foul Play uses just the opponent's Attack stat, while - forgive me if I misunderstood- you're implying it's the difference between the two numbers, which it's not.

Mind you, I run Sableye that way, but for a different reason I think. I do that because I'm not using the Attack stat and all (as I usually do either Night Shade or Foul Play in the last slot), and in case something confuses me I minimize the self-inflicted damage. Given my luck, I'll run into something stupid like Foresight+DynamicPunch Machamp, or I'll get Confuse Ray'd by something else random, so I'm prepared with my crap 139 Attack stat to do the least damage to myself.
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I thought it was calculated by how high the Foul Play users attack stat was in comparison to the target of Foul Plays attack?
 
Joel said:
I thought it was calculated by how high the Foul Play users attack stat was in comparison to the target of Foul Plays attack?
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It uses the target's attack stat (including boosts), and the user's damage modifiers (eg STAB, burn, Life Orb etc).
 
I don't think the event TM is out yet but Sableye also gets Snarl.
The SpAtk reduction effect combined with priority recover could help it outlast special attackers in a pinch.
 
Now that he's released, this is probably the set that's going to push Sableye up the tiers. Old post, but still.

Himanattsu said:
Sableye @ Leftovers
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover
- Calm Mind

Even without attacking moves, Calm Mind Sableye is a solid threat that can take down an abundance of threats using residual damage and Will-o-Wisp. Taunt takes care of setup sweepers and walls that attempt to cripple it. Physical Sweepers are met by Sableye's decent Defense stat and WoW. If you can find time to set up one CM, Sableye's SpD stat reaches a usable 249, which is bolstered further if you can manage another one. Recover is a necessity for keeping Sableye alive, as well as helping to PP stall.

Sableye's main concern here are not being able to set up enough CMs to successfully wall more powerful special sweepers. Blissey and Burungeru can handle threats like Shandy and Sazandora all day. Faster MH users (all of them) can be easily be handled by proper team synergy. Morobareru can Clear Smog Erufuuns (that don't carry Hurricane) right out. Voltolos can be revenge killed easily by Weaville or Mamoswine, whom all have great synergy with Sableye due to a Fighting weakness. The same goes for Lepardas and Volbeat/Illlumise, due to their frailty. Sableye is unable to touch Fire types with WoW, which is easily remedied through any bulky Water, such as Swampert, Vaporeon, or even Milotic. 8 Speed EVs are there to outspeed other Sableye, but can be invested into HP if you're not afraid of it.

tl;dr: Sableye CAN be bulky, toying with huge threats such as Onono, Scizor, and Tyranitar Garchomp and Dory, this set will almost surely save a spot for it in OU. Any set with offensive moves will fail miserably, since it's slow as a Munchlax and more so suffers from moveslot syndrome. Deal w/ it, (h).
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