It wouldn't make any sense. Daikenki uses its shells as swords rather than for protection, so it would be ludicrous if it knew a move where it destroyed them and its attack raised.
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Which is why...Shell Armor is one of his abilities? What you're saying doesn't make any sense. It clearly uses them to protect itself as well if it has that ability.
i would say that unlike the other pokemon who get shell break, Heavy D would benefit the most simple because he isn't week to any priority. if a white herb were to be place on him the defense drop would be negated. with the exception of vacuum wave, all priority moves would be physical and with white herb do meh damage to daikenki. lucario is the only note worthy person that knows vacuum wave(blaziken has better things to do). Daikenki has perfect stats to take advantage of such a move and not be broken.
like i said before shell smash isn't even needed...with a agility he could be good too(now that i think make sacred sword not an exclusive move and pass it to other sword wielding pokemon)...well a special attacking variant. without a speed upping move he becomes fodder for natt and speedy pokemon packing thunderbolt. he has the offensive stats to maybe not sweep but to at least make dents.... he can also take a hit or two and dish it back. It has surprised me a lot just how well 95 base hp and 85 defense can go.
If we don't discuss what the future might hold for daikenki, we might as well stop the discussions because most of what he can do the three preceding water starters do slightly to much better(typing for empoleon , more defensive minded stat distribution for swampert with typing, and better movepool with feraligatr. to be fair they all have way more egg moves ). The original post pretty much shows all there is to him give or take a choice item.
it can be argued some of the shells are made for atacking and others for defending and shell break would...well break the defending ones. regardless of that daikenki is not gonna do anything other pokemons cant until pokemon grey give him something(i hope they will, if not then we better wait for gen 6) useful.
i have tried daiken with bulky spread and it work quite well in gimicky fashion.
Also lol at someone who said SB is not a good move
SB is arguably THE most broken move in existence of pokemon metagame history even with defense drops
Really(maybe before gear change or B Dance) and im dead serious
WH SB batton pass to something impossibly broken like Kyogre, Groudon, Ray, Zekrom, metagross etcetera is amazingly game finishing move even to prepared enemy
Also lol at someone who said SB is not a good move
SB is arguably THE most broken move in existence of pokemon metagame history even with defense drops
Really(maybe before gear change or B Dance) and im dead serious
WH SB batton pass to something impossibly broken like Kyogre, Groudon, Ray, Zekrom, metagross etcetera is amazingly game finishing move even to prepared enemy
Sets on the first page still need edited out of those.
Daikenki's SubSalac set is awesome!
A lot better than his other sets IMO.
I've swept with it quite a few times.
A lot better than his other sets IMO.
I've swept with it quite a few times.
I have a feeling that the move's usefulness is dependant on the Pokémon who uses it. Cloyster and Omastar can make good use of it because they have lots of Defense to spare, combined with the fact that a boost to their offensive and speed stats makes them potent. on the flip side, you don't hear a whole lot about Shell Break Blastoise. Or do you?
Um
Compared to Seaking, Daikenki has
More Speed
More Attack
More SpA
More physical bulk
Around the same special bulk
Swords Dance
Aqua Jet
Grass Knot
Dragon Tail
...Taunt.
Seaking has
Around the same special bulk
Swift Swim
OR
Lightningrod
...Poison Jab.
...nah.
And there's a lot more fully evolved Pokemon coming from there.
In all seriousness, Daikenki may be "outclassed" in some aspects, not all aspects in comparison to other fully evolved water-types. His use of Megahorn and some versatile moves that no other Water-type can use is what sets him apart from them. High to moderate support is needed to function with Daikenki. Moderate to high support is needed to function with Daikenki.
And yes, Shell Break is incredibly situational, and it'd be a godsend. I'd appreciate it if Daikenki got a better move, though.
He's not going to be shaking up the metagame by any means, but posts like Heeros are a bit unfair.
He's basically Blastoise but with better offenses and less defenses. That in itself isn't an overly attractive prospect but if I was trying to say something positive about this guy I'd probably say that he seems like a fairly decent tank. Pure water is an excellent typing as we all know and his physical bulk is really quite impressive (almost identical to Blastoise in fact, slightly better than Vaporeons and much better than Milotics). He has that handy Water/Ice/Grass coverage that Bulky Waters love, but this dude does it with Grass Knot instead of HP Grass. He also has that great base Atk which means you can slap Aqua Jet on the end of an otherwise purely special set and still deal respectable damage on specific targets like Doryuuzu and Ulgamoth as well as being nice for just picking things off in general. He also makes a decent Dragon Tail user because, unlike Milotic, he actually has the muscle to break the Substitutes of frail things like Ninjask. And don't forget about his immunity to critical hits - the bane of all bulky waters.
Something like...
Daikenki @ Leftovers
252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpA or SpD
Relaxed / Bold
Torrent (or Shell Armor in DW)
- Boiling Water
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Aqua Jet / Dragon Tail / Encore
EVs ensure he always survives +2 Doryuuzu Earthquake after SR (79% on avg), rest dumped into SpA to hit harder (108 base SpA makes him the second strongest of all bulky waters, only Vappy has more SpA) or SpD to patch up
that poor 70 base stat. The last slot is team support...Aqua Jet is ever useful priority and works off that base 100 Atk stat whereas Dragon Tail/Encore are generally awesome moves and allow him to phaze.
So yeah, Daikenki is mediocrity personified but I tried. :(
(and jesus guys, stop talking about Shell Break)
He's basically Blastoise but with better offenses and less defenses. That in itself isn't an overly attractive prospect but if I was trying to say something positive about this guy I'd probably say that he seems like a fairly decent tank. Pure water is an excellent typing as we all know and his physical bulk is really quite impressive (almost identical to Blastoise in fact, slightly better than Vaporeons and much better than Milotics). He has that handy Water/Ice/Grass coverage that Bulky Waters love, but this dude does it with Grass Knot instead of HP Grass. He also has that great base Atk which means you can slap Aqua Jet on the end of an otherwise purely special set and still deal respectable damage on specific targets like Doryuuzu and Ulgamoth as well as being nice for just picking things off in general. He also makes a decent Dragon Tail user because, unlike Milotic, he actually has the muscle to break the Substitutes of frail things like Ninjask. And don't forget about his immunity to critical hits - the bane of all bulky waters.
Something like...
Daikenki @ Leftovers
252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpA or SpD
Relaxed / Bold
Torrent (or Shell Armor in DW)
- Boiling Water
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Aqua Jet / Dragon Tail / Encore
EVs ensure he always survives +2 Doryuuzu Earthquake after SR (79% on avg), rest dumped into SpA to hit harder (108 base SpA makes him the second strongest of all bulky waters, only Vappy has more SpA) or SpD to patch up
that poor 70 base stat. The last slot is team support...Aqua Jet is ever useful priority and works off that base 100 Atk stat whereas Dragon Tail/Encore are generally awesome moves and allow him to phaze.
So yeah, Daikenki is mediocrity personified but I tried. :(
(and jesus guys, stop talking about Shell Break)
Lee's Bulky Water set a actually looks pretty fun, despite there being a thousand other *fish* out there to use in the sea. I might test it out and see how it does, and hopefully it won't be too comparable.
As far as offensive goes, there shoukd be a way to make a loophole.
As far as offensive goes, there shoukd be a way to make a loophole.
^not with 70 base speed :/
hey guys i found some proof that daikenki can walk on two legs.( i know this has nothing to do with him competitively but hey, it's interesting.)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_chu/5213691639/
some dude drew a picture on deviant art of a bipedal daikenki and gave a like to pictures of items he purchased from pokecenter japan. With this proof we know that it's the art for daikenki that makes him look like a plush toy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_chu/5213691639/
some dude drew a picture on deviant art of a bipedal daikenki and gave a like to pictures of items he purchased from pokecenter japan. With this proof we know that it's the art for daikenki that makes him look like a plush toy
Okay, right now we need to worry about what Dai can do right now. Worrying about Shell Break can wait, and I'm really one to talk :P. Anyway, from experimenting, the only sets I've used so far that have done okay or moderately well are these two
S.S.S. (Subbing Samurai Sealion) (my own name for the set): By Rhykard3
Item: Salac Berry
Nature: Jolly
EV: 252 ATK/ 252 SPE/ 4 HP
Move Set:
Waterfall/ Aqua Jet
Substitute
Megahorn/Return/Night Slash
Swords Dance
and
Bulky Bushido (again original name):By Lee
Item: Leftovers
Nature:Relaxed / Bold
Torrent (or Shell Armor in DW)
EV: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpA or SpD
- Boiling Water/ Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Aqua Jet / Dragon Tail / Encore
If anyone has any other ideas, please post them. The guy who made the OP hasn't been on since mid october so we don't have any other up to date sets.
S.S.S. (Subbing Samurai Sealion) (my own name for the set): By Rhykard3
Item: Salac Berry
Nature: Jolly
EV: 252 ATK/ 252 SPE/ 4 HP
Move Set:
Waterfall/ Aqua Jet
Substitute
Megahorn/Return/Night Slash
Swords Dance
and
Bulky Bushido (again original name):By Lee
Item: Leftovers
Nature:Relaxed / Bold
Torrent (or Shell Armor in DW)
EV: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpA or SpD
- Boiling Water/ Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Aqua Jet / Dragon Tail / Encore
If anyone has any other ideas, please post them. The guy who made the OP hasn't been on since mid october so we don't have any other up to date sets.
What are you talking about? Shell Break is an incredible set up move.
Because Blastoise doesn't learn Shell Break for some reason. If it did, its niche would probably be attempting to fire off extremely powerful Water Spouts.
Anyway, Daikenki can be useful. One of its benefits over other Water-types is its solid mixed offenses and a few nice coverage options outside of the Water/Ice combo.
Its main problem is that it doesn't really stand out anywhere. It's sort of on the same page as Huntail, except Daikenki has better base stats but lacks Swift Swim and Shell Break, so he might even be worse off in some circumstances (such as in the rain).
You're... kidding, right? With +5 attack Jolly 252 Atk Daikenki hits like 1400 attack with Torrent activated hits 60BP then factoring in STAB, that's 90BP (correct me if I'm wrong). That should be doing some serious damage...