SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[Worldie]

There has been a recent update to Scarlet and Violet. Seems fairly limited. Anything new that could be data-mined for this latest update? And do we have any other indications on when Home will be updated?

Indication of a Home update wouldn't come from a SV update.
Mainly cause it's Home that needs to be updated to actually be able to send/receive Pokemon. SV doesn't need one.

Afaik there's nothing notable in the current update other than the removal of some more dex entries (and uuuh i'd assume the cud chew correction)

 

[pkmfan]

Indication of a Home update wouldn't come from a SV update.
Mainly cause it's Home that needs to be updated to actually be able to send/receive Pokemon. SV doesn't need one.

Afaik there's nothing notable in the current update other than the removal of some more dex entries (and uuuh i'd assume the cud chew correction)

Thanks, was hoping for some hidden gem. Guess for Home they will just put out an update and announce compatibility the same day.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

There has been a recent update to Scarlet and Violet. Seems fairly limited. Anything new that could be data-mined for this latest update? And do we have any other indications on when Home will be updated?

Well more Dex entries got scrubbed, new ones including Snivy and Tepig lines

 

[Worldie]

Thanks, was hoping for some hidden gem. Guess for Home they will just put out an update and announce compatibility the same day.

If we have to go by how they went for the 3 gen 8 games, we'll just wake up one day with the announcement of a patch + compatibility the day after

Game shouldn't actually need any patch for it since all the Pokemon that are meant to be coming are already in the game files. Unless they also plan to do some event raid for it or drop another surprise like WW/IL

 

[R_N]

The reason for there to be an update to SV would be dependent on them wanting to patch in the few evolution methods not present for some of the Home Pokemon, to add in a "battle ready mark" NPC, or if there needed to be something on the SV side of things to expedite a process in Home's reading of the save file .

"Wouldn't they have done that in the latest update" yeah well i wouldn't have expected it to take 3 updates to add the pokeball placeholder icon for box assets that haven't loaded yet, the thing SWSH already had at launch, but here we are

 

[pkmfan]

The reason for there to be an update to SV would be dependent on them wanting to patch in the few evolution methods not present for some of the Home Pokemon, to add in a "battle ready mark" NPC, or if there needed to be something on the SV side of things to expedite a process in Home's reading of the save file .

"Wouldn't they have done that in the latest update" yeah well i wouldn't have expected it to take 3 updates to add the pokeball placeholder icon for box assets that haven't loaded yet, the thing SWSH already had at launch, but here we are

So maybe there might be another patch then.

The pokeball place holder was a good quality of life improvement. Online stability seems to be better for me as well.

 

[yamxen]

Regarding update 1.3.0, it has been reported that Carbink and other Pokémon have been removed from the Pokedex, does anyone know which file to actually look at to confirm this?
I looked in "personal_array" and it is the same file as in 1.2.0.

 

[R_N]

Regarding update 1.3.0, it has been reported that Carbink and other Pokémon have been removed from the Pokedex, does anyone know which file to actually look at to confirm this?
I looked in "personal_array" and it is the same file as in 1.2.0.

I'd hit up https://twitter.com/mattyoukhana_ for that question, since he's the one who looked into it originally

 

[mattgcn]

I assume it was the actual dex entries which may have held placeholder information previously that are now "scrubbed" in accordance to possible DLC inclusion.

Longshot, but does anyone have the personal tables dumped anywhere with like, auxiliary data? There used to be one with the Body Shape indicators for all the new mons but I cannot for the life of me find it now, and I apparently had a bunch of them mismatched in my own data so a fresh dump of them would be great... if I knew how to do that lol. Apparently it's stored right next to the Color value.

EDIT: Thanks to MattYouKhana, here's an only lightly-parsed Personal Table for anyone who needs it

 

[LPBvgc]

Regarding HOME compatability for Scarlet and Violet:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1656050793450024960

YAY! Backwards Compatability!

 

[R_N]

If true, impressive! I didn't think they'd do it (as shown earlier, with this conversation)


I look forward to them breaking it in a million pieces

 

[Worldie]

I'll believe it when I see it. Between it being on centro and it actually implying being able to send pokemon backwards, I really struggle to see it.

Though at least if that was the case, at least *maybe* it'd justify the delay. Maybe.

Edit: Also, I said it back when this shitshow started, while it doesn't really affect me as cartridge player, if anything it'd remove the need for me to keep maintaining no longer obtainable moves on my previous gen mons, it would be pretty funny to see where the smogon tiers will end up with without the transfer moves.

But alas... I mean, saying that "Home is ready and will come soon :) :)" at start of may reminds me a lot of Astrology. Just throw a generic statement that is very likely to happen regardless, if it does, pretend you foresaw it, if it doesn't, say that you may have misread the cards :|

 

[R_N]

I suppose, thinking on it, it would make some amount of sense to prevent Pokemon Home from just being successively more striated Pokemon Jail for Pokemon that get stranded in different generations
At least with this you can say "well you can still bring them to ONE of the sets of games"
Unless you're Spinda. Just plum out of luck on that one.

 

[Nokocchi]

If true, impressive! I didn't think they'd do it (as shown earlier, with this conversation)

Assuming this is true, as I said earlier it's a lot simpler than most people thing to do backward compatibility with Home as long as SV has it own separate moveset data like with BDSP and Arceus. SV has more in common coding-wise with SwSH than BDSP does. All of the current games fans designate as the increasingly inaccurate "Gen VIII" have failsafes for having Pokemon with Ribbons, Pokeballs, and Origin Marks that do not exist in those titles. While I don't know what BDSP and Legends will do with Origin marks, SwSh just makes all game identifiers listed after itself show the Galar origin mark when sent to Sword and Shield, thus making those Pokemon legal for the Master Rank ribbon. For Ribbons and Pokeballs, they have checkboxes for any fields where either can be coded so you don't lose them. For Ribbons they're just invisible but still present on the Pokemon. For Pokeballs the game cannot identify SwSh visually defaults them to normal Pokeballs while BDSP, Arceus, and SV they show Strange Ball instead. How SwSh handles it is actually identical to how Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, and Battle Revolution handle the HGSS exclusive Pokeballs.

 

[doipy hooves]

While I don't know what BDSP and Legends will do with Origin marks, SwSh just makes all game identifiers listed after itself show the Galar origin mark when sent to Sword and Shield, thus making those Pokemon legal for the Master Rank ribbon.

SWSH isn't the game with the failsafes, it's all handled on HOME's side which is why SWSH didn't need to update for compatibility. HOME is responsible for faking each pokemon to appear as having a SWSH origin.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527451956494622752

 

[PokePoindexter]

For the first time ever, you will be able to transfer Pokémon caught in Scarlet/Violet to previous generation games.

Ironically, with Past/Future being the underlying theme of SV, this would actually make some semblance of sense. And it would also give us a way to evolve a Stantler or Ursaring caught in Paldea, which I, a man with two shiny Ursarings in his Violet save file, would very much approve of.

I'll still believe it when I see it, though.

 

[pkmfan]

I wonder how "soon" "very soon" is. Seems like it can still be 15-30 days out.

Regardless of Home, they really need to add 40 boxes like Brilliant Diamond/SP. For most mainline games we've been stuck at 32 for years. With more types than ever it is safe to assume we will have more types we want to use in game without doing the Home dance.

 

[Worldie]

I wonder how "soon" "very soon" is. Seems like it can still be 15-30 days out.

Regardless of what Centro says, tecnically if they want to stay with "spring 2023" as target (which isn't really "early 2023" but early enough in the year that they could pretend it is), release window would still basically go all the way until the end of june.

That said, considering that last Home update was basically shadowdropped out of the blue, pretty much any week we could randomly wake up and see an announcement on the Pokemon twitter about it being updated the next day.

...man they really need to hire better PR...

 

[Perriechu]

Centro is generally somewhat reliable when it comes to HOME so I'm inclined to believe him, especially as Khu also hinted at backwards compatibility last week. Remember Centro managed to somehow have a source who leaked things about HOME/DLC in 2020/2021, so he's not completely useless

I would probably estimate HOME coming next week, it came around May 18th for PLA/BDSP - I think they'd announce it though. BDSP/PLA was different as they were same generation games, SV is a new generation and opens up a lot with HOME compatibility, unlike the other two.

As for backwards compatibility, this is huge if true, as it not only allows us to evolve some trade-item Pokémon relatively easy thanks to PLA but it also means that we don't have to transfer for Hisui mons, we can breed them in SV for our own specifications (Apriballs, cough) and then send them back to PLA for evolving and then back to SV. So I'm v happy about this.

 

[R_N]

SWSH isn't the game with the failsafes, it's all handled on HOME's side which is why SWSH didn't need to update for compatibility. HOME is responsible for faking each pokemon to appear as having a SWSH origin.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527451956494622752

Which is weird since previous games can just default to some other location for location data it doesn't know.

 

[AztecCroc]

Which is weird since previous games can just default to some other location for location data it doesn't know.

No? They just don't display anything when traded from another game in their gen that came out later (that doesn't share the same locations, and transferring from a previous gen sets the met location to a generic one corresponding to the Pokémon's game of origin. Gen 8/9 have wordier summary screens than previous and cutting out bits no longer works, but they didn't want to patch SwSh to have the met location overrides for PLA and BDSP.

 

[pika pal]

The reason I would hope for backwards compatibility, besides alleviating Multiple-gens of Dexit absence or one-way "Home Limbo" for some mons, there are some species where the Regional evolutions will become increasingly hard to obtain if their old games eventually phase out in 10-15 years (Alolan Exeggutor and Raichu for example), not to mention if people want to evolve Pokemon they catch in a later game into said forms without an in-game avenue (like how I've caught a Shiny Goomy in SV).

This would be future proofing rather than having to bend around to fit evolution locations or item methods into every single entry, or save frustration from transferring a mon before it's evolved into the desired form (which is within possibility as a mistake since Bank mass-transfers to Home from the Alola games).

 

[TheMantyke]

I am conflicted about full on moveset wipes. On one hand, there is so much fun history attached to movesets. Random event moves like Octazooka Sableye and bizarre footnotes in movepools like Water Gun Donphan are super cool to have around. Seeing everything finally get wiped away is a bit sad. It's also just a bit annoying knowing stuff you set up for future use like teaching your Arceus all the tutor moves in PLA is just, you know, not a thing anywhere.

That said, I realize programming robust movepool legality checks is a bit of a challenge and it's a lot easier to just collectively clean things up so you're only tethered to one game. It also generally is just kind of wild that we can send Pokemon back in time again, now that they have no reservations lopping off a bunch of a Pokemon's data to store it server side.

Also, given that intergenerational Gen 8 stuff preserves a Pokemon's ribbons, EVs, ability, etc, there's a solid chance that if this rumor is true, SWSH would have genuine tradeback Pokemon! It wouldn't involve movepools at all, but Gen 9's ability to uninvert the ability patch means a few legality issues in Gen 8 are now totally legal. Off the top of my head, the most interesting one is probably Curse + Technician Scizor, since being a VC Pokemon requires an HA. Another vaguely interesting one is Clefable; it's on the datamined list of eventually returning Pokemon, which would make the combination of Knock Off (Gen 7 Tutor) + Teleport (Gen 1 VC) + Magic Guard (Incompatible with Gen 1 VC moves) legal on it. Of course, if that system works and Gen 9 adds in the Machamp line, after a long 7 years of waiting, No Guard Fissure Machamp finally gets to reign! ...Over tradebacks Gen 8 AG I guess lol?

 

[R_N]

No? They just don't display anything when traded from another game in their gen that came out later (that doesn't share the same locations, and transferring from a previous gen sets the met location to a generic one corresponding to the Pokémon's game of origin. Gen 8/9 have wordier summary screens than previous and cutting out bits no longer works, but they didn't want to patch SwSh to have the met location overrides for PLA and BDSP.

In gen 4 it would default to "Faraway Place" (Source: I literally jsut did that), though

I don't see why SWSH cannot do the same thing without Home intervening and inserting "The Faraway Place"
There's no reason it can't do that, default the ball to Pokeball, and not display the mark without Home stepping in.

 

[Perriechu]

I am conflicted about full on moveset wipes. On one hand, there is so much fun history attached to movesets. Random event moves like Octazooka Sableye and bizarre footnotes in movepools like Water Gun Donphan are super cool to have around. Seeing everything finally get wiped away is a bit sad. It's also just a bit annoying knowing stuff you set up for future use like teaching your Arceus all the tutor moves in PLA is just, you know, not a thing anywhere.

That said, I realize programming robust movepool legality checks is a bit of a challenge and it's a lot easier to just collectively clean things up so you're only tethered to one game. It also generally is just kind of wild that we can send Pokemon back in time again, now that they have no reservations lopping off a bunch of a Pokemon's data to store it server side.

Also, given that intergenerational Gen 8 stuff preserves a Pokemon's ribbons, EVs, ability, etc, there's a solid chance that if this rumor is true, SWSH would have genuine tradeback Pokemon! It wouldn't involve movepools at all, but Gen 9's ability to uninvert the ability patch means a few legality issues in Gen 8 are now totally legal. Off the top of my head, the most interesting one is probably Curse + Technician Scizor, since being a VC Pokemon requires an HA. Another vaguely interesting one is Clefable; it's on the datamined list of eventually returning Pokemon, which would make the combination of Knock Off (Gen 7 Tutor) + Teleport (Gen 1 VC) + Magic Guard (Incompatible with Gen 1 VC moves) legal on it. Of course, if that system works and Gen 9 adds in the Machamp line, after a long 7 years of waiting, No Guard Fissure Machamp finally gets to reign! ...Over tradebacks Gen 8 AG I guess lol?

Well if what Khu is saying currently is correct then there's going to be a feature in v3 (so Indigo Disk) that allows distribution moves to be given to Pokémon again;

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1656564159428046850

The above tweet is Khu confirming a move tailoring, something that allows us to choose(?) moves for Pokémon and he mentioned something about distribution moves prior to that, so putting together his pieces implies that event-only moves are going to be re-teachable.

However Khu did confirm that they can't be used in competitive. So there's that, not sure what Smogon would do with it but V-Create Ray may be back on the table.