Scizor (Choice Scarf)

[Philip7086]

Guys, can we please stop the shoddy theorymonning in this topic? If you can't see the merit of:

1. Guaranteeing a KO in a checkmate situation on Pokemon (please note: I never said a 100% health Pokemon)
2. Nabbing a KO on the element of surprise (don't try to tell me that there will be no more surprise element once this set is posted on Smogon - stats have proven time and time again that CB Scizor will be the standard, and don't try to convince me that anybody would assume you're running anything BUT CB Scizor if they don't see Leftovers)
3. Allowing Scizor to finish something off with a fast U-turn and getting out to a Pokemon which forces your opponent's hand (as opposed to Scizor getting outsped and KOed itself)

then you're obviously either just biased or missing something.

Has our theorymonning really become that shallow that only 100% vs. 100% situations are applied? Can people no longer see the bigger picture? Lets use Latias for example here (god, I can't believe I'm wasting my time on something this simple):

Let's say Latias is locked onto Specs Surf and Scizor comes in on revenge. It is likely to stay in and use Specs Surf again for guaranteed damage, as opposed to eating a CB Pursuit for no damage. However, with Scarf, you can outspeed and U-turn out to a water resisting Pokemon without taking ANY damage. If they switch out, big deal, you still are granted the upper hand. If you have a weakened CB Scizor, this is not possible.

Cool, I love how for some reason Life Orb isn't considered in the Gengar calculations. Sure, this set might lose to Leftovers HP Fire Gengars (lol?), but it will beat every other variant. It also beats MysticGar, unlike the Choice Band set.

Life Orb Starmie has a small chance to OHKO CB Scizor after one turn of SR, and is almost guaranteed to OHKO it after two with Hydro Pump anyways, so I don't even know why that was mentioned. I guess no damage at all is superior to guaranteed damage? Yeah, I sure don't see the merit of Scarf here... -__-

Finally, Scarf Scizor can check threats like Lucario, Infernape, and non-Scarf Heatran whereas CB Scizor can't.

Seriously, can someone tell me why the two sets are even being compared? Obviously CB Scizor is superior in more scenarios, but how does that take away from the viability of this set at all? Since when does the general superiority of one set over another (which is designed to play completely differently than the former set) mean the latter is no good at all? Maybe we should just take down every set on-site but the best sets for each Pokemon, if we're going to use this logic. I don't even particularly like Choice Scarf Scizor, I just hate seeing when no actual thought was put into objection theorymon. People get bogged down in calcs without seeing the big picture and realizing that Pokemon is hardly a pre-calculate-able game at all.

/end rant

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Look, I hate to say this, but I'm going to be the "big mod" and put a stop to this.

This set has passed the Quality Control board, which means that it has been determined to be "good enough" to go on-site. The next poster who feels the need to chime in saying "scarf is a shitty gimmick and writing an analysis ruins the surprise" will be infracted.

There. Now can we actually get on with the topic at hand?

 

[Philip7086]

I wanted to clarify that objections are welcome (which is why I'm having the Quality Control team do this in public now). I don't want to convey the message that you are NOT TO EVER QUESTION QUALITY CONTROL! or anything, I just would like most objections to have some solid thought backing them up. We're human too, we can make mistakes when judging a set and I fully expect others to catch us if that happens. However, like I said, make sure you think out your objections before cluttering up a topic (we would love to see reasonable objections).

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Also, a followup. Blatant and pure theorymon is absolutely unacceptable when you're discussing sets like this. It doesn't matter if you think "this set runs purely on surprise and in 4 months, 7 days, 13 hours it's going to stop being useful after we start writing about it" when you post in C&C. This is not the place for blatant theorymon. Sets mustbe tested before they are posted, and posts contesting sets must be couched in something that is fact-based and actually confirmable. If the metagame shifts enough that a set is no longer viable, Quality Control will take care of it when the time comes, and when the time DOES come, decisiontime happens and you can go "ok this set is no longer surprising which means it sucks". (i happen to believe that is not what's going to happen but i can't prove it so i wouldn't attempt to use it as an argument)

 

[Universal Berry]

If you aren't using Bullet Punch and carrying Night Slash over pursuit (which would be strange but whatever) I would recommend slashing Swarm as an Ability. 157 power U-turn is awesome, especially when your opponent has no choice but to bring a pokemon in to take the hit.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

You would never use this set without Pursuit. I was thinking about Swarm, but that tech'd Pursuit is one of the huge reasons this set is good.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I still believe slashing Aerial Ace in has it's merits just like Iron Head and Night Slash have their "usable" but "poor" merits, and tbh I already covered this in my last post that was completely ignored for some reason.

 

[Bribery]

I've used Scarf Scizor a few times and it makes a superb revenge killer and scouter. Sometimes I prefer Iron Head over Bullet Punch to deal higher damage to MixMence, and the possible flinch hax is nice. Scarf Scizor's Bullet Punch can be rather underwhelming at times.

I would just run max Speed to beat base 120's (unless those HP EVs are preventing some sort of KO). While none of them are OU, you never know when you'll get caught off guard by one of them. Remember, "many teams get caught off-guard by LO Sceptile these days" - The Smog #8. :naughty:

Aerial Ace is worth a mention in the AC to deal with Breloom and Machamp, like the above poster suggested. Everyone knows how annoying these two Pokemon are.

Also, I think Night Slash should be moved to AC instead of slashed in. I don't see what it's uses are since Pursuit is only 10 base damage less if they don't switch out. The only notable KO that Night Slash gets that Pursuit doesn't is on Gengar and defensive Rotom. Night Slash is a guarenteed OHKO on Gengar after Stealth Rock, whereas Pursuit does 75% min to it. Against defensive Rotom, Night Slash does 44% max, which gives it a slight chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. However, I would rather switch out than risk a Will-O-Wisp.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Night Slash hits Rotom-A on the switch if you predict right. That's the big draw.

As for max speed, I agree, Phil's beloved LO Sceptile is outsped by a max Speed set, which this spread can't do, so... yeah.

 

[Philip7086]

I've used Scarf Scizor a few times and it makes a superb revenge killer and scouter. Sometimes I prefer Iron Head over Bullet Punch to deal higher damage to MixMence, and the possible flinch hax is nice. Scarf Scizor's Bullet Punch can be rather underwhelming at times.

I would just run max Speed to beat base 120's (unless those HP EVs are preventing some sort of KO). While none of them are OU, you never know when you'll get caught off guard by one of them. Remember, "many teams get caught off-guard by LO Sceptile these days" - The Smog #8. :naughty:

Aerial Ace is worth a mention in the AC to deal with Breloom and Machamp, like the above poster suggested. Everyone knows how annoying these two Pokemon are.

Also, I think Night Slash should be moved to AC instead of slashed in. I don't see what it's uses are since Pursuit is only 10 base damage less if they don't switch out. The only notable KO that Night Slash gets that Pursuit doesn't is on Gengar and defensive Rotom. Night Slash is a guarenteed OHKO on Gengar after Stealth Rock, whereas Pursuit does 75% min to it. Against defensive Rotom, Night Slash does 44% max, which gives it a slight chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. However, I would rather switch out than risk a Will-O-Wisp.

Wow, someone read my article??? lol

Anyways, I personally don't see the use in making it max speed if it's only to outpace random UU Pokemon which are rarely ever seen in OU. The extra bulk will probably make a difference more often than the speed would (unless more people start using Sceptile after reading my article / hearing the Smogcast ;P). However, it is worth mentioning that max Speed beats the base 120's in AC imo. Aerial Ace... I'm not sold on. I suppose it couldn't hurt in AC, but... meh.

 

[Fuzznip]

Just putting this out there, but since you may not use max Speed, you can run 228 Speed to outpace 184 Speed Gyarados (the bulky Dragon Dance set) after a Dragon Dance (you reach 367, it reaches 366). Even though Scizor can't do much to it, it still might be helpful in certain situations, and the leftover EVs aren't really used for anything anyway, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Colonel M]

I know SDS mentioned why Bullet Punch should be on the set, but to be frankly honest I do not see how it should be the "main option" over Iron Head. Perhaps this is more or less personal preference, but if I'm going to use Bullet Punch for anything it's probably +1 Salamence and maybe randoms like Choice Scarf Flygon. Iron Head is actually pretty cool to use on MixMence overall. If you can draw Salamence in twice and not force it to Roost, you can actually obtain a chance to OHKO it (but I think 9 times out of 10 you'll face 75% Salamence at the worst). Being able to 2HKO MixMence is a nice thought though. Like I said, I can see the merits to having Bullet Punch despite still wearing the Choice Scarf. Won't ever deny that. I just question it as the main option overall.

 

[Squirrel.]

There isnt to much of a point to having pursuit, scarf scizor on its own is going to suprise people so things will probbaly stay in and get ohkoed by night slash predicting a CB pursuit

 

[Luf]

When I used Choice Scarf Scizor, I ran a spread of 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe. 244 Speed EVs with a Choice Scarf allows you to outspeed base 120's with a positive speed nature. It is actually useful to hit 373 Speed because I ran into a couple Dugtrios and I lost because I didn't have 373+ speed.

 

[Cherub Agent]

i agree with having aerial ace on the set, but the problem is fitting it in... Mabye it could simply be mentioned in the analysis, but not slashed in. On loads of rmts you see how many teams hate breloom and machamp, and aa really does deal with them to an extent. Many breloom have stayed in on me tryimg to spore but end up getting killed. Also, i think iron head should be the main option over bullet punch, since overall it deals more damage, and BPs damage output is shockingly low.

 

[Colonel M]

Leave it to the master, seizebot.

I tried this on shoddy, i dont think it works very well :( CB scizor beat it to a pulp in a BP contest ... no other moves could of hit it and it couldn't do much on a heatran (unless you predicted the switch in)

I dont think this is a very plausible set, because one of the main draws of scizor is its amazing bulk with 248hp evs it can have with choice band, choice scarf removes this option.

Look kids, I'll tell you your problem right here and now.

You're obviously using this set wrong.

I cannot even begin to interpret what you are saying. In the first quote... CB Scizor vs. CS Scizor? Um, hey, are you nuts? You don't ever put two Scizors in a cage fight. In the second paragraph, the reason you're running HP EVs is because Scizor is not outspeeding anything after the Speed Evs, or at least of anything significant.

Here, read this post from Philip. This is "how to use the set":

Guys, can we please stop the shoddy theorymonning in this topic? If you can't see the merit of:

1. Guaranteeing a KO in a checkmate situation on Pokemon (please note: I never said a 100% health Pokemon)
2. Nabbing a KO on the element of surprise (don't try to tell me that there will be no more surprise element once this set is posted on Smogon - stats have proven time and time again that CB Scizor will be the standard, and don't try to convince me that anybody would assume you're running anything BUT CB Scizor if they don't see Leftovers)
3. Allowing Scizor to finish something off with a fast U-turn and getting out to a Pokemon which forces your opponent's hand (as opposed to Scizor getting outsped and KOed itself)

then you're obviously either just biased or missing something.

Has our theorymonning really become that shallow that only 100% vs. 100% situations are applied? Can people no longer see the bigger picture? Lets use Latias for example here (god, I can't believe I'm wasting my time on something this simple):

Let's say Latias is locked onto Specs Surf and Scizor comes in on revenge. It is likely to stay in and use Specs Surf again for guaranteed damage, as opposed to eating a CB Pursuit for no damage. However, with Scarf, you can outspeed and U-turn out to a water resisting Pokemon without taking ANY damage. If they switch out, big deal, you still are granted the upper hand. If you have a weakened CB Scizor, this is not possible.

Cool, I love how for some reason Life Orb isn't considered in the Gengar calculations. Sure, this set might lose to Leftovers HP Fire Gengars (lol?), but it will beat every other variant. It also beats MysticGar, unlike the Choice Band set.

Life Orb Starmie has a small chance to OHKO CB Scizor after one turn of SR, and is almost guaranteed to OHKO it after two with Hydro Pump anyways, so I don't even know why that was mentioned. I guess no damage at all is superior to guaranteed damage? Yeah, I sure don't see the merit of Scarf here... -__-

Finally, Scarf Scizor can check threats like Lucario, Infernape, and non-Scarf Heatran whereas CB Scizor can't.

Seriously, can someone tell me why the two sets are even being compared? Obviously CB Scizor is superior in more scenarios, but how does that take away from the viability of this set at all? Since when does the general superiority of one set over another (which is designed to play completely differently than the former set) mean the latter is no good at all? Maybe we should just take down every set on-site but the best sets for each Pokemon, if we're going to use this logic. I don't even particularly like Choice Scarf Scizor, I just hate seeing when no actual thought was put into objection theorymon. People get bogged down in calcs without seeing the big picture and realizing that Pokemon is hardly a pre-calculate-able game at all.

/end rant

Next person that posts this set is bad without thorough evidence is going to get a warning. This is your final one to help you understand why to use this set.\

EDIT: Yes, I do realize that Latias is Uber now.

 

[Demoness]

This set serves no purpose. banded will always be better.

So Band Scizor will alwasy be better at revenge killing things that aren't weak to Bullet Punch or are slow? Thats news to me


post below: I was saying that to the deleted post saying Band Scizor did everything better

 

[Forte.EXE]

So Band Scizor will alwasy be better at revenge killing things that aren't weak to Bullet Punch or are slow? Thats news to me

I much prefer the speedy U-turn and Pursuit over a stronger, but slower version. This way, as Philip explained, I can U-turn out, go to a Pokemon resistant to the attack type I'm going to be hit by, and take less damage, compared to having a slower Scizor, who gets hit and damaged badly, and then gets U-turn.

 

[Osef]

This is different from the very common choice band set, that's very nice to see :P


For the 4th move slot, metal claw can be used(double STAB, thanks to the technician boost
We can also add that Rotom forms make a decent partner for this Scizor set because he scares away/ kills most of it's counters (especially Rotom-C who is able to take care of swampert )

 

[RaikouLover]

This looks promising. I'm eyeing it up because anything that can check SD Lucario, especially with Salamence's tiering in Limbo.. gets the nod from me :).

Make sure you give the SD Lucario check a mention in the comments!