Serperior

Specs is arguably the WORST item Jaroda could have imo.Theres hardly a differance when your boosting up to that level of Power.So +4 Leaf Storm is killing your every day Robushin and so is +5, +4 is doing 30% to Heatran and +5 is doing 35%...The boost in power is hardly noticable and not needed when you'r only increasing such a poor base stat.As far as Choice items go Scarf is far superior so you can actually outspeed most threats instead of just doing 200% dammage instead of 170% dammage to them..
 
N00b Lyf3 said:
Specs is arguably the WORST item Jaroda could have imo.Theres hardly a differance when your boosting up to that level of Power.So +4 Leaf Storm is killing your every day Robushin and so is +5, +4 is doing 30% to Heatran and +5 is doing 35%...The boost in power is hardly noticable and not needed when you'r only increasing such a poor base stat.As far as Choice items go Scarf is far superior so you can actually outspeed most threats instead of just doing 200% dammage instead of 170% dammage to them..
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I would think that the opposite is true. While neither option is very good in my opinion, any 4x resist forces the Scarf out while Specs gives you enough extra power to force your way through a lot of them. I could be wrong, though; someone better at calcs want to give a with/without Specs comparison for some counters?
 
a little calc showed me this

+6 252 SpA Specs Jarlordas Leaf Storm vs Heatran 70-82,4%
+6 252 SpA Scarf/Lefties w/e Jarlordas Leaf Storm vs Heatran 46,4-54,8%

+4 252 SpA Specs Jarlordas Leaf Storm vs Heatran 52,3-61,6
+4 252 SpA Scarf/Lefties w/e Jarlordas Leaf Storm vs Heatran 35-41,2


+6 252 SpA Specs Jarlordas Leaf Storm vs 252/0 Nattorei 59,4-69,6%
+6 252 SpA Scarf/Lefties w/e Jarlordas Leaf Storm vs 252/0 Nattorei 39,5-46,6%

+4 252 SpA Specs Jarlordas Leaf Storm vs 252/0 Nattorei 44,6-52,3%
+4 252 SpA Scarf/Lefties w/e Jarlordas Leaf Storm vs 252/0 Nattorei 29,5-24,9%

you see the damage goes much higher as its not just being at +7/5 but being at +6/4*1.5.
Sure you still won't OHKO, but picking off weakend Pokemon gets much easier especially given that these Pokemon are vulnerable to all kinds of hazards and don't have access to reliable recovery.
 
Specs wouldn't work. The biggest problem this guy has is his average speed; he is easily revenge killed before he can get to +6. With scarf, you just spam Leaf Storm even on things that resist it (careful of 4x resist though). Bring him in on a weakened, slower pokemon and he revenge kills and sets up simultaneously in one turn. I put HP there although I certainly never use it. You would only bring it in late game when most of the opponent's Steel/Bugs are gone. He needs support just like any other sweeper. I've used the scarf set on my offensive team and it has done wonders on PO.

Edit: Wow, scarfed Jarooda single handily got me to 1350 on PO in one day with a new alt. It outspeeds Ludicolo in rain as well as some Kabutops who don't run max EVs. Most importantly, it outspeeds scarfed Shanderra who die to one unboosted leafstorm after SR damage! For sand teams, with no defense investment, it survives a Doryuzzu x-scissor and then OHKOs back with leafstorm. This guy is so beastly.
 
I've seen Scarfed Jalorda in action and can see the destruction it makes late game. My question is, even though there are faster pokes, is it possible to build a bulky version of Jalorda who can still abuse Perversity without a scarf, or does it have to have max SPE and SPA to work? I've seen bulky DD Gyarados work, though that's probably because it boosts two stats instead if just one.
 
N00b Lyf3 said:
Specs is arguably the WORST item Jaroda could have imo.Theres hardly a differance when your boosting up to that level of Power.So +4 Leaf Storm is killing your every day Robushin and so is +5, +4 is doing 30% to Heatran and +5 is doing 35%...The boost in power is hardly noticable and not needed when you'r only increasing such a poor base stat.As far as Choice items go Scarf is far superior so you can actually outspeed most threats instead of just doing 200% dammage instead of 170% dammage to them..
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Specs is not a +1 boost. +5 = 350% of the original stat; +4 with Specs = 300% * 1.5 = 450% of the original stat and thus, higher than +6 (400%).


If you do 170% damage with Scarf, you will do 255% with Specs.
 
Rayquaza_ said:
Err 113 base speed is definitely not average and with its respectable defenses it's really not THAT easily revenge killed.
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yeah 113 Speed is awesome even this Gen as only very few Pokemon outspeed it and with Jarlordas good bulk it can take even a strong neutral Hit (well no Specs Draco Meteors, but what can take that anyways).

Actually i think more and more that choice items are actually a very good choice on him (no pun intended :P) since his Special Move Pool i so extremely limited.
Yeah Hiden Power might get you a Kill on Mence or Nattorei when they are more healthy, but thats not the point where you should try to sweep anyways.
Imo you should come late game on a bulky water like Suicune/Manaphy/Vapoeron (even unboosted Kingdras/Kabutops could work) grab a boost or two and proceed to sweep a weakend opponents Team.

Damn i really hope this thing gets realeased soon because it starts to sound more appealing than i first thougth.
 
BurningMan said:
yeah 113 Speed is awesome even this Gen as only very few Pokemon outspeed it and with Jarlordas good bulk it can take even a strong neutral Hit (well no Specs Draco Meteors, but what can take that anyways).
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Pokemon that outspeed, by base speed stat:
-Sky Shaymin, gets STAB off Flying advantage
-Electrode
-Alternate form Meloetta (normal/fighting)
-non defense Forme Deoxys (x3 forme)
-Alakazam
-that crazy fast Bug #617
-Persian
-Chinchilla (normal)
-Ambipom
-Dugtrio (ground)
-Erufuun (grass)
-new bat, kokoromi (psy/fly)
-final Zebra (electric, herbivore from Dream World)
-Arceus
-Mewtwo
-Azelf
-Jolteon
-Starmie
-Aerodactyl
-Crobat
-Sneasel & Weavile
-Raikou
-Sceptile
-Floatzel
-Ninjask
-Swellow
 
^ To add to his point, most of those Pokemon are either suboptimal or outright banned. Allow me to bold the ones that are:

-Sky Shaymin, gets STAB off Flying advantage
-Electrode
-Alternate form Meloetta (normal/fighting)
-non defense Forme Deoxys (x3 forme)
-Alakazam
-that crazy fast Bug #617
-Persian
-Chinchilla (normal)
-Ambipom
-Dugtrio (ground)
-Erufuun (grass)
-new bat, kokoromi (psy/fly)
-final Zebra (electric, herbivore from Dream World)
-Arceus
-Mewtwo
-Azelf
-Jolteon
-Starmie
-Aerodactyl
-Crobat
-Sneasel & Weavile
-Raikou
-Sceptile
-Floatzel
-Ninjask
-Swellow

By my count, that's 13/26 Pokemon. Jaroda's speed is troll tier lol.
 
Most of those guys can't OHKO either while nearly all of them they do get knocked out if Jaroda has picked up any boosts.

The biggest counters out of those are Shaymin and Crobat who 4x resist and can OHKO with flying STAB

Scarf Shandera can switch in before Jaroda has picked up too many boosts and OHKO with Overheat though. Kind of a problem when the #1 pokemon's #1 set is a pretty strong counter.

However once you've weakened his counters and checks, all you have to do to sweep is spam Leaf Storm
 
I'm personally going to use this poke in OU just to see how he fares. I think he has the potential to do well in OU, but we will just have to wait and see.
 
lol, considering we've been playing with him for a good four months now, we have a pretty good idea of how he fairs. And quite honestly, he's one of the best late game sweepers in the entire game.
 
Jaroda said:
lol, considering we've been playing with him for a good four months now, we have a pretty good idea of how he fairs. And quite honestly, he's one of the best late game sweepers in the entire game.
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With Shaymin-S now gone this is even more true. Before, Jaroda was both competing with Shaymin-S and checked by it. And Darkrai is gone, and Deoxys-A and Deoxys-N. Which means it has less threatening Pokemon to deal with that are in higher speed tiers. This is the best time for Jaroda.
 
I use scarf personally and i like it more than specs. with specs, i would keep getting forced out by scarfed pokemon and while its speed stat is above average, its still not good enough to be as effective as it would be without the scarf.
 
CanadiEntei said:
Maybe. I haven't, and don't, just because of the idea of a BP boost being a drop. Or having to middle man a DW Perversity Spinda just to BP the Belly Drum.

LOL, passing a Belly Drum to DW Spinda. That would be what? Minus six Attack?
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I have a hacked female Jarooda with Perversity. Maybe I'll mass breed Perversity smugleafs someday.

Anyway, baton passing it Belly Drum gives you +6 attack. Perversity ONLY activates when there's the blue/red sparkles animation, you know, the one that happens upon lowering/icreasing a stat. Thus, if Jaroda used Belly Drum, it'd be at -6 attack.
X-Speed trolls me in the pokemon league, as it DECREASES my speed. Paralysis also lowers my speed, regardless of perveristy. Burn also halves my attack instead of boosting. Intimidate gives me +1. Not much else to say here.
 
Yet another pokemon with so few reliable counters. Jalorda has above average speed and bulky enough that it's not easily revenge killed by most scarfers. What can counter this apart from heatran?
 
Dragonite works well, it x4 resists grass and can x8 resist it with its ability. it can and does carry fire moves and can phaze Jaroda's boosts out with dragon tail.
 
astrohawke said:
Yet another pokemon with so few reliable counters. Jalorda has above average speed and bulky enough that it's not easily revenge killed by most scarfers. What can counter this apart from heatran?
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Depends on the set the Jalorda is using. If it is choiced... there are many Pokemon that 4x resist grass attacks (we have many buy/steel Pokemon now). Shubarugo is one of them, which should OHKO it with Megahorn, it also has base 105 SpD so it should survive a hit... and of course Nattorei, which can Gyro Ball it. But because of such Pokemon some Jalorda carry HP Fire (of course that will only help if it isn't choiced), which can OHKO some of them (depending on how many boosts it already has and stuff).

There are also many Pokemon with Herbivore which is really great against all kinds of grass attacks. Baffuron, with his good 95 base HP and 95 base SpD can probably take a HP and can switch in on a Leaf Storm to get +1 Attack and OHKO with Megahorn... Of course all Pokemon with Herbivore will be really good since they get +1 and Jalorda doesn't get the +2 boost, making any HP probably not strong enough to be useful.

Pokemon with any combination of the types 4x resist grass:
Bug, Grass, Dragon, Fire, Flying, Poison and Steel

So I guess... Dragonite, Salamence, maybe Altaria, Charizard, Moltres, Crobat, Genosekuto, Urugamosu/Ulgamoth ... (of course Jalorda is 1 base point faster than Pendoraa so it doesn't counter it xD)
Most bug/(flying/poison) Pokemon are pretty bad (although they have Butterfly Dance now) so I didn't list them... Scizor and Scyther could do something, but it's the same for other Bugs (like a scarfed Heracross (which most of them are)), but yeah it really depends on the set and they risk getting OHKO'd by HP Fire, I'm also not sure if Scizor can even take 2 Leaf Storms... Scyther with Evo Stone needs to watch out for a SE HP, same with all Grass/Poisons.

Jalorda could also carry a different HP, like fighting (is also okay for some guys that 4x resist grass)...

It guess you first have to find out if the Jalorda if choiced or not, and depending on that you have a variety of Pokemon that can take boosted attacks.


​
 
astrohawke said:
Yet another pokemon with so few reliable counters. Jalorda has above average speed and bulky enough that it's not easily revenge killed by most scarfers. What can counter this apart from heatran?
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Scarfed Shandera can kill non-Scarfed Jaroda (but then again, what doesn't Shandera kill) with Fire Blast. It also survives a +2 Leaf Storm, even if Rocks are up. This means that it can also kill Scarfed Jaroda as long as it doesn't have +4 Special Attack.

Scarfed Ditto can also kill all non-Scarfed Jaroda and have a 50% chance to kill Scarfed Jaroda. Personally, I like Focus Sash Ditto in Dream World as it allows you to sweep once priority and weather is gone.


Heatran doesn't necessarily counter Jaroda. Most, if not all, Jaroda carry a Hidden Power of one of the following types: Ice, Fire, Ground.

Ice hits the Dragon- and Flying- type pokemon for SE damage, which makes it the more popular decision. Dragonite is hit for ridiculously hard damage if it switches into a Leaf Storm then is hit by HP Ice, and random stuff like Zapdos and Xatu take more damage.

Fire hit the Steel-types, most notably Nattorei, who could otherwise wall Jaroda all day, since Glare helps its Gyro Ball, Leaf Storm does lol damage, and Leech Seed doesn't affect it.

Hidden Power Ground is what makes Heatran cry. Grass/Ground doesn't give much coverage, but it can lure in Heatran, Shandera, and Blaziken, all of whom die to a surprise Hidden Power.

I think that Jaroda is a very hard pokemon to counter if you don't know its set. Once you know its set, or more accurately the Hidden Power, you can counter it accordingly. Balloon Heatran is probably your best bet, though.
 
Um sorry for the question, but what would a good moveset for Jarooda be? I'm new, but I like Jarooda a lot. It doesn't seem to have that great of a movepool.
 
Having used Jalorda extensively on the Smogon BW tier, the primary benefit of the scarf is that it allows you to use your opponents revenge killer as a "ramp-up" pokemon.

Take this scenario for example: you revenge someone to get +2. Your opponent sends scarfed Garchomp to revenge back. While you won't OHKO Garchomp at +2, you can definitely 2HKO it while surviving anything (even Outrage) thrown at you (due to natural bulk). After Garchomp is down, you'll be at +6, fast as hell, and ready to sweep.

Of course, it's not always so simple. Jalorda can survive a lot (unboosted Dory X-scissor for example), but Shandera is still a major thorn. It needs to be around 60% or so for you to have a chance to kill it at +2. Moreover, smart opponents who send in their 4x resists early greatly hamper this strategy. Leaf Storm has a max of 8 pp and if you can't get set-up, then Jalorda will be nothing more than a bench warmer until those resists are gone or doing minuscule damage coming off its rather below average regular special attack. Finally, Leaf Storm tends to miss far more than 10% for me. There are games where it would miss 3 times in a row, greatly eating pp. Protect stallers exacerbation this problem. Once, after a very hard-fought battle against a rain team, it was down to me with +4 Jalorda vs. Politoed. I had 5 pp left on Leaf Storm. The opponent then proceeded to protect 4 times in a row and I missed the 5th. Talk about frustrating.

The big trade-off of course is the lack of Hidden Power. There are so many things that 4x resist Grass that having HP ice, ground, fire greatly increase the likelihood of a sweep by taking out those counters. Non-scarfed versions are also available to provide more utility such as paralyzing the opponent with glare or leech seeding incoming counters. However, here, you'll have to add scarfed revengers as counters.

Thus, in the end, playing with Jalorda is all about positioning. Who you are facing and how many boosts you have decide the battle. Scarfing helps with positioning against faster Pokemon while non-scarfed versions have more utility out of sweeping. Both are stopped cold by 4x resists (pick an HP and somebody will still 4x resist both attacks).
 
Choiced versions are easier to handle imo. It's the ones that have Sub/Leech seed/Leaf storm/HP Fire/Ice that's really annoying. First you have to find out what HP it has and whether you need to send in a dragon or a steel and that assumes you actually have both in your team. Otherwise it just rampages through everything. It also isn't that easy to revenge kill as it's faster than most commonly used non-scarfed pokemon and bulky enough to usually survive 1 attack if it isn't coming from a strong super effective STAB. Not to mention it might still have a sub up when the revenge killer comes in and it's probably already at +4 if not +6.
 
It's a toss up really. Most teams have a dragon or steel so you opponent has a 50% chance of getting it right, which means you also have a 50% chance not to be completely walled. If you switch out, then you opponent will know (more or less) for certain what HP you have. Then again, they might have Heatran which means it's time to leave the field for both choiced and unchoiced versions.

Remember, when you come in the field, you have to make a choice: sub first or attack immediately. Either way, you're going to be hard-pressed to kill a revenge killer like scarfed Garchomp or Shandera. If you sub, you'll be at +0 meaning your next LS is weak, if you attack, you won't have the protection and even at +2, you won't kill them. However, someone mentioned an interesting tactic of glaring the switch and then subbing until parahax hits. Reminds me a lot of SS SD Chomp, with a crapier attacking type but the ability to set-up while doing damage.
 
Usually during the early stages you sub to see what they bring in. If it's something you can't handle, you leech seed and get out or you subseed stall for a bit.

A big problem is that it outspeeds just about all of its counters and subseed stalls you which annoys the crap out of anything that doesn't have recovery and can usually bring them down to KO range. There aren't too many bulky salamences or dragonites being used either so its main counters are steels and most will be packing HP fire which really limits the number of viable OU counters to this thing.
 
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