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Serperior

In all seriousness, I think Perversity should be toned down here a bit because the Dream World abilities are not yet released, or so my knowledge exceeds me. Pretty much, this thread IS Perversity.

As for Jaroda's other options, by limitations of a Grass-type, it's certainly quite....limited. Not sure Calm Mind would be plausible due to Celebi and a limited movepool, again by virtue of being a plain Grass-type. If anybody could change my mind, that would be quite alright. Since Calm Mind is such an opportune move and all, I'm in the gray area. Jaroda just needs to note that it has competition with Celebi, who sports some ability to beat Blissey with 101 Subs and Baton Pass, and some other advantages that are completely obvious.
 
I know this may seem like a terrible moveset, but I think it's got genuinely interest possibilities. Jaroda's got a few nice resistances in electric, ground, water and other grass.

Tanking Jaroda
Leftovers - Timid/Jolly
252 HP/ Appropriate Speed investment to outspeed any particular speed level threats. The rest of the EV's can go into either a Def, SpD or can help recover stats lost due to nature.

Leaf Blade
Giga Drain/Energy Ball/Grass Knot
Calm Mind
Coil

I know this seems ridiculous, but it's not as ridiculous as it seems. Jaroda has great wall capabilities, and a surprisingly good speed stat you don't see on most walls. He's significantly faster than most threats you'll see out there, and with that unique speed stat of 113, you don't need to invest max speed, just enough to outspeed whatever you're concerned with (maybe 110?)

The idea with this set is pretty simple, max out all his stats, except speed which is already wonderful. I think Jaroda is the only pokemon that could possibly pull this off. The reason being he's likely to go first. That means you can use the appropriate stat-boosting move to boost your defence against whatever threat you may be facing. You start off with higher defence. I would expect unless they've got a STAB super effective move, Jaroda will be alright, and probably have enough health to pull off another boost to the particular defensive stat required. Leftovers of course helps with survivability. After two boosts, you can giga drain (hopefully you got to boost with calm mind) to recover extra health.

At this point in a battle, Jaroda has 2 defensive boosts in one area (with an already respectable defence), and a correspondingly more powerful STAB attack. At this point, unless you're close to death (in which case you weren't setting up against the right pokemon to set up against in the first place), you may expect a switch. Use that turn to boost your other defence (and again, other attack). And again, Jaroda should go first most of the time, and will likely get a boost in again before he takes a hit. Leftovers recovering HP all the while.

I'd love to see damage calcs, particularly against Jaroda, not for his attack strength, but to test his defence. I'll try doing em myself if I find the time. It's very possible that he's simply not a good enough wall to stand up to this sort of abuse, but imagine the possibilities of a pokemon with such massive defence, boosted attack, respectable HP and great speed.

unfortunately this set is MORE ridiculous than it seems. I'm sorry to be harsh, but unless you are planning this to be UU-exclusive this set is absolute crap. there are so many 4x grass resists that mono-grass will do absolutely nothing, no matter how many boosts you get. the defense boosts dont do anything since you dont have recovery and you are complete and utter setup bait. you cant stall out anything and you cant kill anything. mence, tran, hell any dragon/steel comes in and laughs its ass off as it sets up multiple times on you then sweeps.
 
Swap Coil and Leaf Blade for Substitute and Leech Seed/Toxic/Dragon Tail and you're on to something. Something going to set up on you? Dargon Tail his ass outta there.
 
In all seriousness, I think Perversity should be toned down here a bit because the Dream World abilities are not yet released, or so my knowledge exceeds me. Pretty much, this thread IS Perversity.

As for Jaroda's other options, by limitations of a Grass-type, it's certainly quite....limited. Not sure Calm Mind would be plausible due to Celebi and a limited movepool, again by virtue of being a plain Grass-type. If anybody could change my mind, that would be quite alright. Since Calm Mind is such an opportune move and all, I'm in the gray area. Jaroda just needs to note that it has competition with Celebi, who sports some ability to beat Blissey with 101 Subs and Baton Pass, and some other advantages that are completely obvious.

He can do Torment+SubSeed like a pro, bulkier than Erufun in pure SubSeeding, and he's got a fast Coil, meaning the next Physical hit he takes will be weaker

Looking back at him, he does have other options, however, they're just a notch above mediocre in terms of impact on the game :/

I still like him, though, SubSeed Torment could have its niche in OU; I believe it's in UU where his other sets have a lot of potential
 
Making this clear now: Perversity will reverse the stat change of the move you use. So yes, Leaf Storm does in fact +2 him. There is a video on Perversity somewhere in this thread that proves this.

That's horrible...

And @ previous comments:

Yeah, forgot about coverage... haha... oh boy. And Jaroda would need a good partner to switch between. Heatran makes a viable option, I don't know about the other guy buy seemed good.

From the current metagame, Lucario, Magnezone and Metagross would all resist both grass/HP Rock.

Giga Drain does offer increased survivability, so it'd be Leaf Blade that goes. And in order to offer real type coverage, HP Rock is a necessity. So I suppose Giga Drain/ HP Rock/Dragon Tail would have to be used with Coil/Calm Mind.

All that being said, if it's confirmed that Leaf Storm + Jaroda = Incredible, I don't see my set being all too useful :P

Still a fun idea, but fire would be a problem. Heatran makes a great partner as Jaroda baits fire, ice, poison (though uncommon attack type), bug (also uncommon) and flying. All of which Heatran resists. Heatran baits fighting, water, and especially ground, and though Jaroda doesn't resist fighting, it covers the other two.

Dragon Tail does also work as an option, to cycle pokemon through. I'm surprised though. Does it have negative priority? Because a move like that doesn't seem like it should be allowed. 90% accuracy and cycling of pokemon means teaching something with say... speed boost, dragon tail, auto-wins you the game (barring the PP restriction).
 
Wring Out, anyone?

For a coverage attack?

To tell the truth, I think I got this from a warstory or somewhere...
 
I do think Wring Out shouldn't be underestimated as a coverage move due to its potential BP.

Dragon Tail does also work as an option, to cycle pokemon through. I'm surprised though. Does it have negative priority? Because a move like that doesn't seem like it should be allowed. 90% accuracy and cycling of pokemon means teaching something with say... speed boost, dragon tail, auto-wins you the game (barring the PP restriction).
Yes, Dragon Tail has negative priority (except when used with Sleep Talk).
 
I do think Wring Out shouldn't be underestimated as a coverage move due to its potential BP.


Yes, Dragon Tail has negative priority (except when used with Sleep Talk).

And with Assist, Menetrome, blahblah.

Yes Wring out, with +2, coupled with a good Hidden Power, destroys everything.

What hidden power is good?
It needs to deal with Steel Types.
I think Water would be good. For Empoleon, Leaf Storm Away. For Dialga, no one ares. For Nattorei, I don't know.
What about Fire? Nothing except Heatran will resist it. Heatran is rare right now with all the playtests.
Ice? Ice can't hit the regular steels, Nor Heatran. The Dragons will have a bad day though.
Ground? Skarmory comes and ruins your day. Bronzong too. But both of them aren't all that common right now.
Fighting? I think that's perfect. Steel/Ghost would resist it, but it doesn' t exist. Oh crap, Gengar and Shanderra...
Electric? Nattorei comes again, bringing Steelix and Doryuuzu with him. And Giratina, but the staff keeps him out.

You choice of Hidden Power.
 
Jaroda annihilates the 'core' and receives a full stat up while at it, while ChanBliss and Erufuun can actually give Jaroda fits.

Jaroda @ w.e (Lefties, Life Orb, Wise Glasses, Rock Gem, Choice Scarf)
*Snak3 N Da Gr@ss*
Perversity
Timid, 252 Spd 252 Satk
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Rock/Ground]
- Dragon Tail
- Substitute/Wring Out

- Leaf Storm does it's obvious thing
- HP Rock handles Dera/Sala/Nite/Uruga and does heavier damage to Skarm/Natt/Scizor/Ran, provides PP relief against grasses
- HP Ground handles Dera/Ran/Jira/Gross and does heavier damage to Natt/Scizor
- Dragon Tail is the most valuable move, it phazes Skarm out quicker than it can Roar/WW, and allows Jaroda to scout, damage, and phaze its' counter on the switchin to add more hazard damage
- Substitute gives protection against ChanBliss and Scarfed switchins
- Wring Out does neutral damage to a lot of things and provides PP relief to Leaf Storm and gives Celebi less capacity to last-poke stall sets lacking HP Rock

Sub, Phaze, Boost, Break. And switch out when you're done.

Lefties recover HP
Life Orb lets Jaroda score a few key 1/2/3hkos and save Leaf Storm pp
Wise Glasses may or may not give Jaroda a key 1/2/3hko here and there to save PP
Rock Gem allows key KOs when running HP Rock
Scarf is what you'd expect, and carries the problems you'd expect. Run Wring Out with this.
 
Pervisty Jaroda is very dangerous.If you lose your grass check, you are literally fucked. It's insane speed, an ability to simultaneously boost and attack at the same time make this thing a fearsome sweeper.
 
Pervisty Jaroda is very dangerous.If you lose your grass check, you are literally fucked. It's insane speed, an ability to simultaneously boost and attack at the same time make this thing a fearsome sweeper.

Speaking of that, Jaroda has very few true checks:

Partial Checks:

Nattorei - [strike]May as well not exist.[/strike] Resists HP Rock. Every HP Jaroda runs can hammer this thing's face in, and Natt can't do much but lay a layer of spikes during this. Can Natt even break Jaroda's subs?

Skarm - can assault with Brave Bird/Drill Peck and threaten to phaze with WW/Roar, but phazed by Dragon Tail, KO'd by Gemmed +4 HP Rock. If Jaroda's already pretty hurt and not well boosted, can kill it off.

Heatran - gives Jaroda a heart attack if it's not behind a sub, but badly damaged or KO'd by HP Ground if behind a sub. +4 Gemmed HP Rock hurts too after SR and a +2 Leaf Storm. Revenge killer.

Scizor - +2 Gemmed HP Rock hurts after SR and Leaf Storm. Revenge killer. CB Bullet Punch hurts.

Shandera - scarf is its friend, but Substitute and Gemmed HP Rock are issues. Revenge killer.

Urugamosu - another one that needs scarf, but Sub and Gemmed HP Rock make it nonviable. Revenge killer.

Gengar - not too bad. Can easily score a scarfed revenge kill when Sub's down.

Grass types - Really, only Celebi. Celebi can annoy a bit but Wring Out dominates it, HP keeps it picking recover, and Gem puts it within 2hko range with a few boosts. Jaroda can sub to avoid Sleep Powder vs most grasses, though Erufuun and Mischievous Heart are problems if sub isn't up. Jumpluff has no issues sleeping a Jaroda without HP Rock using Slip Through. Sceptile can be a solid counter when running X-Scissor.

Dragon/Flying types - Scarfed ones can revenge kill when Sub isn't up, but Gemmed HP Rock isn't something they want to tank, and Dragon Tail hits Super Effectively while getting them out of the field.

Crobat can survive a Leaf Storm or two, but +2 Gemmed HP Rock will take it down from behind a Sub.

Scarf Users in general are problematic to Jaroda, bypassing it's excellent speed and hitting it hard. Mostly revenge killers.

Weather Speeders
are the same. Swift Swim, Chlorophyll, and Sand Throw are problematic, though only a few, if any, want to switch in on Jaroda behind a sub.

Yanmega and Ninjask resist Leaf Storm and Mega can Protect in order to put itself at the speed advantage. Yanmega has 2 reliable OHKOs and an offensive Jask can do great harm. Sub helps because Gemmed HP Rock ohkos.

True Checks:

Zeburaika
- With Herbivore, can switch in on a Leaf Storm and outspeed to Overheat/Nitro Charge. Only risk: HP Ground

All other Herbivore users - Girafarig can't really do much but Double Hit or Psychic/Zen, but Jaroda hardly has any options either. Mebukijika and Baffuron both have Megahorn and the attack stat to abuse it, and Miltank has a decent attack stat. Azumarill has Ice Beam, but Huge Power's a better trait. Most of these pokemon don't like Jaroda favorite HP Fighting, but meh.

Blaziken - Actually, not a true check that can wall Jaroda, but forces a KO war.

Switching in, if Jaroda doesn't have a sub, Ken wins.

If Jaroda does have a sub, and isn't boosted yet, Ken wins at 100% hp. At lower levels, Jaroda wins.

If Jaroda has a boost AND a sub, Ken's in deep trouble. But Ken shouldn't be coming in during such horrid circumstances anyway.
 
Grass types - Really, only Celebi. Celebi can annoy a bit but Wring Out dominates it, HP keeps it picking recover, and Gem puts it within 2hko range with a few boosts. Jaroda can sub to avoid Sleep Powder vs most grasses, though Erufuun and Mischievous Heart are problems if sub isn't up. Jumpluff has no issues sleeping a Jaroda without HP Rock using Slip Through. Sceptile can be a solid counter when running X-Scissor.

Venusaur and Roserade have STAB Sludge Bomb, as do Vileplume, Victreebel and Morobareru, Meganium ties with it, Ludicolo can use Ice Beam, Breloom has Spore and strong Focus Punches (not to mention Poison Heal and Substitues of his own), Tropius has STAB Flying type moves, Leafeon will KO it with SD X-Scissor (or just X-Scissor), Shaymin ties with it, Skymin laughs in his face, Nattorei doesn't fear anything outside of HP Fire, Brijion can also use X-Scissor. To all this, add Jaroda's lack of reliable recovery and the fact that all of the aforementioned Pokemon get access to Synthesis.

Really, Jaroda has more Grass type checks than just Celebi, Sceptile, Jumpluff and Erufuun
 
Venusaur and Roserade have STAB Sludge Bomb, as do Vileplume, Victreebel and Morobareru, Meganium ties with it, Ludicolo can use Ice Beam, Breloom has Spore and strong Focus Punches (not to mention Poison Heal and Substitues of his own), Tropius has STAB Flying type moves, Leafeon will KO it with SD X-Scissor (or just X-Scissor), Shaymin ties with it, Skymin laughs in his face, Nattorei doesn't fear anything outside of HP Fire, Brijion can also use X-Scissor.

Really, Jaroda has more Grass type checks than just Celebi, Sceptile, Jumpluff and Erufuun
A lot of those Grass/Poisons (which is a combo i forgot) perfectly check Jaroda, but Tropius eats HP Rock, Natt gives an almost free setup and then dies (in practice), Skymin's doable but when Jaroda's subbed, takes a heavy hit from Gemmed HP Rock or gets phazed just to be hit with 25% SR again and possibly get KO'd later.

Neither Meganium nor Shaymin do any better than Celebi, and the same tactics take them down (except Meganium has scarier status options).

Leafeon's not a threat when Jaroda's behind a sub. Non-Scarfed Leafeon's not a threat to +2 non-subbed Jaroda if it's switching in to Leaf Storm and SR with it's 65/65 defenses and 1/2 resist.

Brijion is a True Check, doesn't fear a single thing Jaroda can do. Worse case scenario is getting phazed.

2 of Breloom's Technician Mach Punches would hurt Jaroda, but so would Breloom taking +0 and +2 Leaf Storms with only 60/60 defenses and a 1/2 resist. Spore and Subpunch aren't going to fly with Sub/Tail Jaroda.
 
2 more potential movesets for Perversity Jaroda which offer surprisingly good coverage:

Leaf Storm
HP Fire
Dragon Tail/Aerial Ace
Giga Drain

Dragon Tail variation is only resisted by Heatran. Aerial Ace variation is resisted by Zekrom and Heatran. Aerial Ace version means you don't have to waste that great speed stat with a negative priority Dragon Tail to deal your damage, but Dragon Tail offers coverage for anyone who thinks it'll be a free setup. It may only be there as a threat, so people are forced to attack rather than be coy and set up. In that case, partner with Heatran. HP Fire checks Jaroda's grass counters. Aerial Ace is mainly used with Infernape in mind. And with Infernape's paper thin defences, even with only 60 BP and being a physical attack, it can definitely do enough damage to make Infernape think again about switching (likely 2HKO, and if infernape gets hit on the switch in, very well may KO without getting hit).

Alternate moveset:

Leaf Storm
HP Ground
Iron Tail
Giga Drain

Resisted by Zapdos and Skarmory in OU, and a few outside OU (notably Moltres and Charizard, who can be checked by SR). This moveset uses Iron Tail for the extra power, since it's likely EV investment will be outside physical attack. A strong base attack is required to do any real damage. Again, Giga Drain is included for healing potential, but you could remove it or Iron Tail for Wring Out or something to provide further coverage, if healing isn't a problem.
 
2 more potential movesets for Perversity Jaroda which offer surprisingly good coverage:

Leaf Storm
HP Fire
Dragon Tail/Aerial Ace
Giga Drain

Dragon Tail variation is only resisted by Heatran. Aerial Ace variation is resisted by Zekrom and Heatran. Aerial Ace version means you don't have to waste that great speed stat with a negative priority Dragon Tail to deal your damage, but Dragon Tail offers coverage for anyone who thinks it'll be a free setup. It may only be there as a threat, so people are forced to attack rather than be coy and set up. In that case, partner with Heatran. HP Fire checks Jaroda's grass counters. Aerial Ace is mainly used with Infernape in mind. And with Infernape's paper thin defences, even with only 60 BP and being a physical attack, it can definitely do enough damage to make Infernape think again about switching (likely 2HKO, and if infernape gets hit on the switch in, very well may KO without getting hit).

Alternate moveset:

Leaf Storm
HP Ground
Iron Tail
Giga Drain

Resisted by Zapdos and Skarmory in OU, and a few outside OU (notably Moltres and Charizard, who can be checked by SR). This moveset uses Iron Tail for the extra power, since it's likely EV investment will be outside physical attack. A strong base attack is required to do any real damage. Again, Giga Drain is included for healing potential, but you could remove it for Wring Out or something to provide further coverage, if healing isn't a problem.
Cool sets, but all I'm concerned about is the natures and EVs that Jaroda would use. If it went with Hasty or Naive, then one of its defensive sides would be wasted. If it went Timid or Jolly, then the power of certain moves in those sets would be weakened.
 
Lol its funny how Jaroda is just another Wobby as only one set is actually dangerous and that only consists of about 2 moves and the rest are filler.Too bad his movepool is so dumb that you have nothing but Leaf storm and hidden power to run...
 
Cool sets, but all I'm concerned about is the natures and EVs that Jaroda would use. If it went with Hasty or Naive, then one of its defensive sides would be wasted. If it went Timid or Jolly, then the power of certain moves in those sets would be weakened.

Speedy nature. Based on what's below, I'll say Timid.

You'd need heavy EV investment in speed, but you wouldn't need to max out speed EV's. Just enough to outrace Gengar or Infernape. Which means you get an extra 6 or 11 stats respectively you can invest elsewhere. Definitely need to max out SpA otherwise you won't hit hard enough even with a 2x boost.

after running sims... it actually looks pretty bleak. I underestimated the power of 70 base defence. You'd probably need to invest some EV's in attack, as well as SpA to make this viable. Though Infernape may also be weakened by SR. Surprisingly, Leaf Storm does the job much better. Hitting for somewhere around 135 damage unboosted against minimum defence Infernape (neutral nature), and 2x boosted would 1HKO with Stealth Rock 100% of the time pretty much.

I think people are underestimating the power of Leaf Storm here... and by association, Jaroda. All it needs to do is Leaf Storm and very little will stand in the way (with a 2x boosted HP Fire). 140 BP attack with max SpA and 2x boosts each time you use it is actually pretty frightening when put into practice.
 
STAB NVE Leaf Storm does more damage than a neutral Hidden Power. Perversity removes the risk of mispredicting with Leaf Storm since you aren't penalized for hitting the wrong Pokemon. Why use HP Rock or Water or something funny when you can SubSeed stuff like Heatran and Sazandora? If you're using a Hidden Power it's more to make sure stuff like Nattorei and Pendora don't set-up entry hazards on your weak attacks or switch-out, so I feel HP Fire is the only one worth considering. You can carry out your strategy as per normal against everything else.
 
PP issues aren't as much of an issue when your SpA goes up 249 points each time you attack.

If anything, just have something to hit Grass types SE so that you can use Leech Seed + Substitute to deal with everything else. If we are looking at that as "coverage," then HP Flying would actually be a good option to hit every grass type except nattorei SE.
 
I dunno, Pressure Moltres seems quite an efficient check. Suddenly you can only use Leaf Storm like 4 more times. Meanwhile, Moltres Roosts all over you, then dispatches you with Fire Blast once you're done. Seeding Moltres solves nothing since Roost will cover the Leech Seed damage, and Moltres will take you apart with one Fire Blast.

Could someone calc this? I'm not sure if I'm right and I'm not very sure how to get Jaroda's stats.
 
Still think Sub / Seed / Storm + HP Fire/Ice is the way to go.

This thing is going to be a awesome Manaphy check (among others).
 
Leaf storm + perversity really is sick. At first I thought it didn't work on self-induced drops (or otherwise this would be waay overpowered).

But it turns out it actually works that way.

Draco meteor, leaf storm and overheat etc. were popular attacks, when they DROPPED your sp. attack. Nasty plot was also a rare, sought after move, which a few pokemon were priviliged with.

Perverse leaf storm gives a 140 bp move without a drawback, PLUS a nasty plot, in one turn!
 
Hidden Power Ground/Rock/Water.

We know Moltres will try to Roost all over Jaroda, so when it does, it gets a beating.

Hidden Power Fire asks for Heatran to wall Jaroda completely, and really isn't all that great at coverage.
 
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