Metagame Shared Power

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Lewi11 said:
I was looking for Battle Armor in the team, but completely forgot that Type: Null gets it! fml
You make some good points though, thanks!

The problems I have though are:

Unnerve isn't a great ability and to sacrifice a slot on a team only to counter one specific stall mon seems ridiculous to me.

Long Reach is good, but is solely allowed on one mon, Decidueye, which lets be honest is a meh kind of mon competitively, especially in a meta like this.

Moves like Darkest Lariat and Sacred Sword are a good shout tbh, I may utilise that! (some great mons learn them, but it's a shame there aren't more that can).

I need to play a few more matches first now to see if stall is as potent as I thought it was and then I'll review it again, see if the meta has become more playable for me.

:)
Click to expand...
I’ve been trying out Bulk Up/Darkest Lariat/Play Rough/Taunt Grimmsnarl holding Protective Pads in conjunction with Queenly Majesty and Wish support and it absolutely tears through stall. Prankster Haze isn’t a problem with Queenly Majesty, and Grimmsnarl is immune to Dragon Tail and Prankster Roar so phazing doesn’t work well against it, so it’s very difficult to stop it from setting up, especially for stall teams. Taunt stops most stallmons in their tracks, and a lot of stall carries mostly physical attackers (such as Bewear and Mudsdale) so a Bulk Up or two will make it very hard for them to deal any sort of damage to you. Protective Pads makes it ignore Fluffy, and Darkest Lariat invalidates Stamina, so two of stall’s biggest buffs are completely gone against this thing. Play Rough even makes Grimmsnarl pretty decent against offense, since it catches Pokémon like Crawdaunt, Conkeldurr and Dracozolt. I wish I could find a way to fit Rest on it, since the lack of healing can hinder it a lot, but with Wish and Regenerator support it’s a force to be reckoned with.

Plus, it straight-up destroys that Mew.
 

Oublié

Hematite said:
Prankster Roar being blocked by Dark-types but not Queenly Majesty actually sounds correct, I think. The priority is being increased by Prankster, which is what gives Dark-types immunity; the immunity there is an effect of Prankster, not an effect of priority. On the other hand, the priority is still negative, which is what stops Queenly Majesty from attempting to block the move. If I understand the two effects correctly, that's exactly how I would expect them to interact.
Click to expand...
It does make sense. I was surprised dark types would block it consering it still has negative priority, but it's affected by prankster nevertheless and it's a single-target move. I'm still wondering what causes queenly majesty to bug, and I feel like it's pretty recent too
 
iLlama

iLlama

Nothing personal, I protect my people
Don't have time to make a long post but I have noticed a large shift thanks to the presumably bugged interaction between Queenly Majesty and priority Haze. Tsareena seems to be the single most important mon on offense currently outside of maybe Crawdaunt. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but Sturdy stat-boosted offense seems like it's almost impossible to beat right now outside of Skill Link offense. Haven't had time to figure out some sort of counter-play for it yet but maybe this will spur some discussion for how people are building around it. I had expected Skill Link offense to become much more prevalent with the banning of Fur Coat but I really could not have foreseen such a rise out of Sturdy + Heavy Duty Boots on everything offense. Good lord, what if we need an item clause. Mostly a joke but I hope that we can figure out ways around this strategy because damn is it scary. I am very curious what people are currently having success with outside of Sturdy offense, Skill Link offense, and Pressure stall though. I've noticed discussion of this Mew anti-stall team over the past couple days and I'm shocked it's garnering so much attention. The only matchup that style of team succeeds in is against the most passive of teams without setup or stallbreakers and judging from the current state of the meta, there are plenty of those running around.

Stall looks to be in a much more manageable place now with Fur Coat gone. From stall's perspective, it seems as though there isn't a solid way to check the various archetypes nearly as efficiently with such passive builds anymore so people are finally building for specific matchups instead. I think the current state of offense and balance keeps Regenerator in check, however I think Queenly Majesty blocking Prankster Haze is playing a huge part in this. Definitely don't think Toxapex should come back after playing and watching more; Mareanie can fulfill it's role plenty well and having a considerable drawback in Eviolite is healthy for the meta. Now concerning Sturdy and/or Queenly Majesty, those may be things to look into over the next few days depending on what kind of builds and counter-builds people can come up with.
 
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Qiyanna's thighs

Qiyanna's thighs

After the ban to fur coat, I've been trying to figure out how to round out this team. Any suggestions?

It's raining ice (Ninetales-Alola) @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Toxic
- Moonblast
- Encore

Sessual Chocolate (Salazzle) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Sludge Wave
- Protect

Dummie thicc (Avalugg) @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Toxic
- Body Press
- Rapid Spin

Gotcha nose (Frosmoth) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Defog
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard

Mother Mercy (Mareanie) @ Eviolite
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
- Knock Off
 
PokaPK

PokaPK

Qiyanna's thighs said:
After the ban to fur coat, I've been trying to figure out how to round out this team. Any suggestions?

It's raining ice (Ninetales-Alola) @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Toxic
- Moonblast
- Encore

Sessual Chocolate (Salazzle) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Sludge Wave
- Protect

Dummie thicc (Avalugg) @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Toxic
- Body Press
- Rapid Spin

Gotcha nose (Frosmoth) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Defog
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard

Mother Mercy (Mareanie) @ Eviolite
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
- Knock Off
Click to expand...
Ferrothorn for hazards/chip damage or fluffy for extra bulk but then you become very susceptible to fire...
 
lolgod3

lolgod3

are there a viability rankings?
if not, I think I can make a small one
S-Tier is the top–notch few that offer great abilities and isn't plain garbage otherwise and is easy to put on a team
A-Tier consists pokemon fulfilling certain roles but are unable to be fit on certain teams
B-Tier is mostly abusers or ones with good abilities but is mainly garbage
C-Tier is ones that's either overrated or underrated

S-Tier:
Doublade (No Guard)
Mudsdale (Stamina)
Tsareena (Queenly Majesty)
A-Tier:
Ferrothorn (Iron Barbs)
Frosmoth (Ice Scales)
Grimmsnarl (Prankster)
Mew (Syncronize)
Reuniclus (Regenerator)
Sylveon (Pixilate)
B-Tier:
Dracozolt (Hustle)
Dragapult (Infiltrator)
Dubwool (Fluffy)
Durant (Hustle)
Eldegoss (Regenerator, Cotton Down)
Hydreigon (Levitate)
Jirachi (Serene Grace)
Kommo-o (Soundproof, Bulletproof)
Pelipper (Drizzle)
Perrserker (Tough Claws, Steely Spirit)
Sableye (Prankster)
Torkoal (Drought)
Toxtricity (Punk Rock, Technitian)
Zeraora (Volt Absorb)
C-Tier:
Cincinno (Technitian, Skill Link)
Cloyster (Skill Link)
Dhelmise (Steelworker)
Grapploct (Technitian)
Mareanie (Merciless, Regenerator)
Snorlax (Immunity, Thick Fat)
 
justideas

justideas

Got an offensive special based team for those interested. Guaranteed for quick games, even against stall, as it'll kill itself slowly in trade for extra firepower

It has the much abused quick feet, paired with flare boost instead of guts for that special att+spe boost. Solar power + drought for unstoppable fire attacks. Psychic terrain to stop priority/misty terrain. No guard to make use of overpowered moves without risking misses like Zap cannon, inferno, hurricane, etc.

I've had a pretty reasonable win rate with it so far, it's one of those teams that if played well, has a chance against nearly any team. Besides probably Kommo-o teams as that cripples Jolteon (Zap cannon/shadow ball), which is the main sweeper and usually the fastest Pokemon in the entire game (Scarf dragapult with a speed boosting nature is usually the only faster mon). It even outspeeds things like shell smash cloyster.

Here's the import:

Drifblim @ Flame Orb
Ability: Flare Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
- Defog
- Icy Wind

Jolteon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Zap Cannon
- Volt Switch

Machamp @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Counter

Ninetales @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Psyshock
- Dark Pulse

Charizard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Inferno
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast

Indeedee (M) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Hyper Voice
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect


The key is to play super aggressively, attack with overpowering moves and get jolteon's flame orb activated as early as possible (switching in on predictions so you can volt switch out). I've won games against opposing quick feets teams just by leading with specs ninetails and clicking fireblast on every mon they had, Crawdaunt included.

You don't need every ability active, your main goal is to keep the highest speed tier (Jolteon/Charizard will typically outspeed all non scarf mons) preventing set up by threatening everything with high power moves.
Charizard and jolteon are the main sweepers and although you should spam them whenever possible, you should keep them alive to beat opposing scarf users. After no guard is active, they spam inferno/hurricane and zap canon and with all abilities active, they've tend to one shot even stall mons

Drifblim still does good damage with flare boost, but is mostly there for the ability/defog. Icy wind to stop set up, but it's mostly a sack. Machamp is good for beating down troublesome mons like hydreigon, if you preserve the sash. Indeedee actually has respectable stats, and can also sweep occasionally.

My usual leads are Jolteon (If you think they won't attack-giving you a flame orb boost), machamp (No misses for the rest of the game, allowing power moves) and Ninetails (instantly applies pressure, forcing sacks and beating opposing weather)

Have fun
 
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MegaFanOfShedinja

MegaFanOfShedinja

lolgod3 said:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1097986603
Sticky hold didn't work
Click to expand...
If Knock Off kills a pokemon when is used, Sticky Hold doesn't activate, this is something that has been known for a long time really.

Just try it in a normal battle, and use knock off against a level 1 pokemon, you will see that Sticky Hold doesn't activate, lol, because is an ability that takes effect at the moment the pokemon takes damage, and in that replay, the pokemon dies before the ability can take effect.
 
Clefable

Clefable

I wanted to share a team I've been working on that works great in the current meta. I've gone undefeated in 15 ladder games with this team.

--> Click here for Dual Screens Body Press Spam <--

Shared Power right now is very fast and physically oriented, so I built around a Fighting spam core of two def boosting Body Press users and a Scrappy mon. Body Press + Cotton Guard Dubwool is about the hardest counter there is to physical attackers, and it can set Agility to sweep. Kommo does the same thing but with access to Taunt. Pangoro provides Scrappy and breaks down walls with Protective Pads hitting through Fluffy.

To round off the team, I used Grimmsnarl for screens and Prankster. I think Prankster + Taunt is one of the keys to beating Haze stall for setup teams. Frosmoth and Chandelure provide abilities that complement Fluffy and can be scary if allowed to set up.
 
Lewi11

Lewi11

So I'm still not sure about Regenerator so I tested a team out a bit:
My past 10 Matches:

Rain Team can’t face it:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1097433245

Analytic team can’t deal:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1097439309

This one here, the opponent forfeited in 6 turns of the team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1097443859

A victory against a player who made good plays throughout (better than me), but lost due to inactivity after I knocked out the main threat they had to my team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1097445916

Here I battle a ghost based team (very creative, love it!), but another easy win:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1097500539

In this one, a HO (Hustle, No Guard, Adaptability, Sheer Force) team forfeited on turn 8:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1097511962

Another HO team here, beaten by the stall team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1097513368

Here the opponent has an interesting Rain Stall/Offence team, but still can’t get through the bulk of my team. The stall lasts until I predict the Toxic on turn 58, and the opponent forfeits:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1097516477

1 loss (adaptability Terrakion (I played poorly, and the opponent played well and my team doesn’t like Terrakion).
1 time the opponent immediately forfeited because we had the same time xD

So that’s 10 matches, 8 legit wins, 1 default win and 1 loss. This is extremely potent as a team and it makes me question if Regen is balanced. Despite this, I did another 5 or so battles with it afterwards and it was half wins and half losses. It makes me think that Regen is OP, but only if you play a good game. There are counters, (particular HO and specific Pokes like Terrakion), but t shuts down most teams overall.

In conclusion, I actually think for now the meta is working pretty well overall.

I have come up against a Cheek Pouch, Ripen, Substituting team that seems pretty powerful too, love the idea of it as well!

I've also had a lot of success with a Priority team with Pixilate, Dragapult and Technician. Obviously it hates Tsareena, but I've won almost every battle with it! Sometimes I wish there were more slots on a team! haha
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Lewi11 said:
I have come up against a Cheek Pouch, Ripen, Substituting team that seems pretty powerful too, love the idea of it as well!
Click to expand...
How do Cheek Pouch and Ripen interact? Do you heal 66% of your HP when you eat a Berry? Because I could see that being crazy on Berry sets. Kee Berry would give +2 Defense and heal you for ⅔ of your HP the first time you’re hit with a physical move, and on something with Recycle you could use it more than once. Combine that with, say, Sturdy, and I think you can stop physical sweeps pretty well.
 
Badger

Badger

alephgalactus said:
How do Cheek Pouch and Ripen interact? Do you heal 66% of your HP when you eat a Berry? Because I could see that being crazy on Berry sets. Kee Berry would give +2 Defense and heal you for ⅔ of your HP the first time you’re hit with a physical move, and on something with Recycle you could use it more than once. Combine that with, say, Sturdy, and I think you can stop physical sweeps pretty well.
Click to expand...
No, you just heal the flat 33% regardless. It doesn't double berry abilities, just the berry effects. However, cheek pouch gives you enough HP for another substitute, so it works out.
 
Negative Charge

Negative Charge

Okay I can confidently say this meta is probably unsalvageable as the rules are currently constructed but we can attempt to move towards playability by banning flinch spam elements and regenerator. The icescales + fluffy stuff is needed to counter out the adaptability hustle flame orb guts flare boost spam but this brings me back to my first point. If regenerator goes I'd love to see flame and toxic orb leave too, while they aren't as immediately threatening as weather spam it often acts the same way with quick feet.
 
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Lewi11

Lewi11

alephgalactus said:
How do Cheek Pouch and Ripen interact? Do you heal 66% of your HP when you eat a Berry? Because I could see that being crazy on Berry sets. Kee Berry would give +2 Defense and heal you for ⅔ of your HP the first time you’re hit with a physical move, and on something with Recycle you could use it more than once. Combine that with, say, Sturdy, and I think you can stop physical sweeps pretty well.
Click to expand...
Ripen doubles the berry's power (so +2 Attack with a Liechi Berry), but you still get the 33% too :D

Negative Charge said:
Okay I can confidently say this meta is probably unsalvageable as the rules are currently constructed but we can attempt to move towards playability by banning flinch spam elements and regenerator. The icescales + fluffy stuff is needed to counter out the adaptability hustle flame orb guts flare boost spam but this brings me back to my first point. If regenerator goes I'd love to see flame and toxic orb leave too, while they aren't as immediately threatening as weather spam it often acts the same way with quick feet.
Click to expand...
I totally agree on the flinching ban. Maybe a ban on King's Rock and Serene Grace? Relying on flinch hax (as the sole purpose of your moves) is not really competitive, it's just luck.
I'm still unsure about Reganerator, but it can be used fairly and competitively imo. (that may change at some point tho) haha
I don't see a huge problem with Quick Feet atm, but if there is a problem with it, the orb items still shouldn't be banned. They have more uses then just with Quick Feet.

:)
 
Shoopz_Whisper

Shoopz_Whisper

Lewi11 said:
I totally agree on the flinching ban. Maybe a ban on King's Rock and Serene Grace? Relying on flinch hax (as the sole purpose of your moves) is not really competitive, it's just luck.
Click to expand...
I saw it happen earlier, and I'm not going to let it repeat. Where I know something that happened and it'll happen again.
We can't only ban King's Rock/Razor Fang, but we should also ban the ability version of these moves: Stench. Considering it was able to move into this generation through Garbodor, and we may need to stop flinching, we would need to add the ability on top of King's Rock/Razor Fang.
 
garoninja

garoninja

BulletProof is very underrated, with enough suppport you can make your team immune to almost anything, letting you setup fully on some teams

Prevents Gyro Ball, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast, Zap Cannnon, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Weather Ball
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Why are people calling this OM dead or unsalvageable? I’ve seen a lot of variety in the meta since all the super-broken stuff was banned (though, in fairness, a lot of it should have been banned before day 1—Speed Boost, Magic Bounce and Regenerator + Emergency Exit come to mind). I haven’t seen anything in the past few days that breaks the meta on the level of Steelworker + Steely Spirit or Contrary. Flinch spam isn’t the most competitive strategy (but then neither is PP stall), but it can be countered pretty easily—many of the Pokémon that exploit flinch spam can be OHKO’d easily, lots of multi-hit moves are blocked by Bulletproof or affected by Fluffy, Stamina invalidates multi-hit moves in general, and the entire strategy is useless against faster Pokémon.
 
Clefable

Clefable

I think Dragapult is something we should look into for a possible ban, even post-Contrary. The issue with Dragapult is that it's faster than practically everything in a meta where speed boosting abilities are banned, and it has the tools to circumvent most defensive abilities and ensure its sweep.

The set that I think is the most problematic is the physical Dragon Darts set. Dragon Darts is non-contact, so it avoids Fluffy, and it works great with Technician. It hits through Sturdy and, with team support, crits through Stamina. Thanks to Infiltrator, Dragapult hits through Screens/Veil as well as Substitute. With a Scarf, Dragapult is naturally faster than every Shell Smash user and can OHKO all of them. Due to Queenly Majesty, revenging Dragapult with priority moves is unreliable.

Dragapult isn’t without its defensive checks (although Steel Wing beats many fairies), but thanks to U-turn it can pivot freely and win the end game.

Here is one example of Scarf Dragapult effortlessly playing the role of revenge killer and late-game cleaner: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1099225476

Edit: I'll add more replays of Dragapult being the MVP below:
Technician LO Dragapult has no defensive counterplay, and after the scarfer is removed it has no offensive counterplay either https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1099703251
 
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alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Clefable said:
I think Dragapult is something we should look into for a possible ban, even post-Contrary. The issue with Dragapult is that it's faster than practically everything in a meta where speed boosting abilities are banned, and it has the tools to circumvent most defensive abilities and ensure its sweep.

The set that I think is the most problematic is the physical Dragon Darts set. Dragon Darts is non-contact, so it avoids Fluffy, and it works great with Technician. It hits through Sturdy and, with team support, crits through Stamina. Thanks to Infiltrator, Dragapult hits through Screens/Veil as well as Substitute. With a Scarf, Dragapult is naturally faster than every Shell Smash user and can OHKO all of them. Due to Queenly Majesty, revenging Dragapult with priority moves is unreliable.

Dragapult isn’t without its defensive checks (although Steel Wing beats many fairies), but thanks to U-turn it can pivot freely and win the end game.

Here is one example of Scarf Dragapult effortlessly playing the role of revenge killer and late-game cleaner: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1099225476
Click to expand...
Hmm. I understand the concern here—Dragapult does beat a lot of stall and offense teams. The only relevant things that outspeed it are Accelgor and Zeraora, and neither can reliably KO it—Accelgor’s Final Gambit doesn’t work against Ghost types and Zeraora needs a Choice Band to guarantee an OHKO with Play Rough (assuming Dragapult isn’t protected by Fluffy or Sturdy), leaving it either outsped by Scarf Dragapult or unable to OHKO; Dragapult’s Technician-boosted Dragon Darts has a good chance of OHKOing unless Zeraora has defensive investment, which it doesn’t, ever. So Dragapult’s almost impossible to beat offensively (completely impossible after just one Dragon Dance with Queenly Majesty support), very hard to beat defensively, and can U-Turn at any point to preserve itself with little to no risk. It’s a bit like Pheromosa with actual defenses and a good defensive typing, except Pheromosa was walled by Aegislash and Dragapult is walled by nothing. Yeah, we definitely need to look at Dragapult.
 
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Lewi11

Lewi11

Clefable said:
I think Dragapult is something we should look into for a possible ban, even post-Contrary. The issue with Dragapult is that it's faster than practically everything in a meta where speed boosting abilities are banned, and it has the tools to circumvent most defensive abilities and ensure its sweep.

The set that I think is the most problematic is the physical Dragon Darts set. Dragon Darts is non-contact, so it avoids Fluffy, and it works great with Technician. It hits through Sturdy and, with team support, crits through Stamina. Thanks to Infiltrator, Dragapult hits through Screens/Veil as well as Substitute. With a Scarf, Dragapult is naturally faster than every Shell Smash user and can OHKO all of them. Due to Queenly Majesty, revenging Dragapult with priority moves is unreliable.

Dragapult isn’t without its defensive checks (although Steel Wing beats many fairies), but thanks to U-turn it can pivot freely and win the end game.

Here is one example of Scarf Dragapult effortlessly playing the role of revenge killer and late-game cleaner: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1099225476
Click to expand...
I don't usually have any trouble knocking out a Dragapult tbh, but the Dragon Darts set with Hustle/Guts/Adaptability/Technician is obscenely powerful. AND ignores fluffy AND gets through Sturdy.

Despite it being so good, there are ways around the pokemon: Priority, Pixilate (this destroys it), a Ferrothorn, Fairy Types in general, Scarfed pokes. There's probably more?

Anyway, if there is an issue regarding Dragapult, if anything, its move Dragon Darts should be banned, not the poke. But I don't see it as OP enough to be banned atm imo.

:)
 
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