Shell Break

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CRC said:
The only useful user of this is omastar. I guess smeargle could use it, lol.
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Not true, both Cloyster and Abagoora make fine use of it through more mixed attacking, as well as both having priority to not be revenge killed as easily.
 
I'm worried it only does give +1 speed and -1 def. People sure about what it does?

After icicle spear and hydro pump, the last slot will have 3 contenders. Explosion, ice shard and rock blast. I still like utilizing skill link, and I like coverage more than other stuff, so I'd probably choose rock blast.
 
lumpor said:
I'm worried it only does give +1 speed and -1 def. People sure about what it does?
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I believe it's been tested at the very least to prove that it is + Atk, Spatk, and Speed and -Def and Spdef. I don't think it's been tested yet if they're all sharp boosts yet though.
 
I checked the cloyster page and it seems like it is a sharp boost.

Shame shuckle doesn't get the move. He has a shell, right?
 
I don´t have an Abagoora, so I can´t test it myself, but just using it four times against a Minezumi and looking out for the increase/decrease at the fourth time should do the trick.

As for the move itself: I love Cloyster! I had one in my very first OU team where it faired quite well, if the battle didn´t last to long(and if it didn´t eat a Special move). I can definitely see Cloyster being a high level threat in OU and Abagoora will be strong with it in whatever tier Politoed will be in.

I really wanted to scream, when I realized that Daikenki doesn´t get it. That would have made him awesome.
 
Well, give Torkaol a break.

He's the only one (together with Abagoraa, Huntail and Cloyster to a lesser extent) that can go mixed.

It's something (even if this thing will not rise up in usage; at least not much).
Also can lure bulky waters and Explode on them.

Other than that: awesome move. Cloyster and Omastar became a lot more threatening now.
And Magcargo sweeps will be hilarious.
 
Dakotz said:
Since icicle spear is a 25 power move with STAB and deals physical damage, 5 garunteed hits of that will be able to 2HKO a lot of pokemon. Not to mention it hits Skarmory for neutral damage, or the fact that it completely ignores Focus Sash or Sturdy when it does OHKO other pokemon.
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Multi-hit moves don't bypass Focus Sashes.
 
wavedash said:
Multi-hit moves don't bypass Focus Sashes.
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They do now. Try keeping up with the research thread.

I predict Smeargle and Omastar will be the most popular initial users, but I mean, Cloyster and Torkoal can both smash holes in any sort of stall with this. Shell Break, high-powered STAB, Physical STAB, Explosion. While they can be shut down (Torkoal by Shanderaa in particular), it'll take a specific check to do so, which can be a little victory in itself.
 
MapleSandwich said:
They do now. Try keeping up with the research thread.

I predict Smeargle and Omastar will be the most popular initial users, but I mean, Cloyster and Torkoal can both smash holes in any sort of stall with this. Shell Break, high-powered STAB, Physical STAB, Explosion. While they can be shut down (Torkoal by Shanderaa in particular), it'll take a specific check to do so, which can be a little victory in itself.
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Torkoal isn't totally blocked by Shanderaa as he has access to Earth Power, Earthquake and Stone Edge, all of which tear Shanderaa to pieces. Yeah, even Torkoal is going to be a threat to look out for.
 
Crap, my mistake, I keep forgetting every Ghost in the world doesn't automatically have a Ground immunity. I'm thinking of Rotom-H, then, since Torkoal's special defense is so bad that even unboosted STAB Shadow Ball will be destroying Torkoal once it's at -2 SpDef with minimal investment.

To be honest, Vacuum Wave will pretty much shut down any of these Pokemon with offensive stat spreads and -2 Special Defense, especially Lucario's Vacuum Wave. I forgot that existed, and all but one Shell Break user is weak to it. Perhaps Torkoal will get more use than some after all, then.
 
Blastoise , daikenki , and maybe torterra envy all of these pokemon. I'm iffy with torterra because icebeam , blizzard, and fire attacks will be all over the place.
 
MapleSandwich said:
Crap, my mistake, I keep forgetting every Ghost in the world doesn't automatically have a Ground immunity. I'm thinking of Rotom-H, then, since Torkoal's special defense is so bad that even unboosted STAB Shadow Ball will be destroying Torkoal once it's at -2 SpDef with minimal investment.

To be honest, Vacuum Wave will pretty much shut down any of these Pokemon with offensive stat spreads and -2 Special Defense, especially Lucario's Vacuum Wave. I forgot that existed, and all but one Shell Break user is weak to it. Perhaps Torkoal will get more use than some after all, then.
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Priority is definitely an issue for most of these Pokemon, if they don't utilize White Herb to cover their defenses.

However, Cloyster (Ice Shard) and Abagoora (Aqua Jet) both receive STAB priority attacks that that will hit really hard off +2 attack. And if Abagoora is utilized in Rain to take advantage of Swift Swim as well, look out.
 
^I'd be more afraid of Omastar, Huntail and Gorebyss in the rain than Abagoora tbh. lol.

But yes, Abogoora + Rain + Shell Break + Aqua Jet is seriously going to lay the hurt down on anything not immune/resistant to it.
 
Holy Shit. Stall is fucked. If Blissey, the bane of all special attackers, is destroyed by these moves, then you don't need to set up. BW is going to do to offense what GSC did to stall.
 
*Sigh* Blastoise wanted this move soooooo much.

Abagoora is my favorite user of this move. despite the low speed.... Sturdy (assuming no rocks) is great ability to abuse this with. Shell break with 3 attacks seems good. Waterfall/stone edge(Rock slide)/Body Slam(return) only being resisted by empoleon I think.
 
I'm excited to try this out on Omastar/Gorebyss in the rain. I've always thought their main problem was that they had no way of naturally boosting their attacking stats, so I've always had to pass plots to them. Now that they do, it'll be interesting to see how much damage they can do..
 
^I'd be more afraid of Omastar, Huntail and Gorebyss in the rain than Abagoora tbh. lol.
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So in other words Clamperl also receive this, right ? In other words thanks to DeepSeaTooth it reaches 494 special attack with neutral nature. In other words after Shell Break this one litle fella reaches... 988 Special Attack. Of course you can't abuse physical attack with it, but say honestly - do you need it with such monstrous stats ? In Rain only thing which can handle Surf from this guy are Water Absorbers.

Yes, I see problem here with his shitty defenses (however you can take one weaker resisted physical attack), especially after drop on defenses. With Wobba around you may find this turn. Unfortunately it's extremely slow, however with +2 positive nature speed boost you outspeed Erufuun (it's a total shame that you miss by... 3 points on Positive 115's. So in other words it's not that hard to stop. However if you may provide it good support, it may be interesting. Simple Shell Break/Surf/Ice Beam/HP Grass or Electric.
 
All of these Pokemon have terrible speed stats, so Shell Break is like a blessing to them. Abagoora looks like a threat with the power from Shell break. Think of it, becoming a completely potent sweeper in one turn of setup.
 
Damage calcs for Cloyster:

+2 Icicle Spear vs. max HP / max Def Bold Lugia: 103.85%-122.60%
+2 Icicle Spear vs. max HP/ max Def Bold Giratina: 91.07%-107.14%

This is with 252 Atk and a +Atk nature... but no boosting item. And he outspeeds both of them at +2 with no EV investment.

Could someone check my calcs? This can't be right...
 
I say a Rapid Spinner. A Focus Sash may help Cloyster more than any attack-boosting item. Of course, Sandstorms could still be a problem... But then, he's Rock weak, so he wants Rapid Spin support either way. Not necessary, but it's very helpful.
 
Abagoora with Swift Swim would be pretty neat. It reaches 652 Speed and 692 Attack with an Adamant nature, 252 Atk / 252 Spe. You can even invest in Special Attack and get a solid mixed sweeper with a spread of Naughty 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe; 556 Attack, 530 Special Attack, and 652 Speed, all backed by Rain-boosted Water attacks. My set would probably be the Adamant spread, Waterfall / Earthquake / Stone Edge / Shell Break. In the rain, Waterfall does 87.4% - 103.3% to 252/176 Impish Skarmory, a nearly guaranteed OHKO with Stealth Rock. Stone Edge does 106.4% - 125.4% to offensive Suicune, and 66.3% - 78.2% to 252/252 Bold Suicune. Even outside of Rain, you're running off 326 speed, which is pretty solid.
 
Could someone check my calcs? This can't be right...
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I checked those calcs on Cherubi Calculator (old Libelldra). They're slightly different, however damage is still insane.

If I'm not mistaken Icicle Spear thanks to Skill Link has 125 base power, right ?

Bold Max Hp/Max Def Lugia
103.85% -->122.60%

Bold Max HP/Max Def Giratina
90.87% --> 107.14%

I checked also few other physical walls just in case, not weak against Ice.

Max HP/Max Def Bold Cresselia
51.58% --> 60.81%

Cresselia in this situation may only use T-Wave, Reflect and try to recover any health back.

Max HP/Max Def Stoned Porygon2
49.73% --> 58.82%

Probably best bet. Porygon2 handle it and retaliate with Thunderbolt for OHKO.

Max HP/Max Def Positive Nature Stoned Dusclops
50.70% --> 60.21%

You better hope that WoW hits...

Max HP/Max Def Positive Nature Intimidate Zuzuruzukin
53.29% --> 62.87%

I think that STAB Close Combat should OHKO back.

If we look for something ridiculous to take hit... (however Hydro Pump is huge problem for them, so... yeah)

Max HP/Max Def Positive Nature Intimidate Hitmontop
66.45% --> 78.29%

Max HP/Max Def Positive Nature Granbull
60.94% --> 71.88%

In other words I think that stall can barely handle it if they don't have Empoleon, Poliwrath, Kerudio (all of them resists standard Water/Ice/Rock combination) or Water Arceus (I need to check Arceus though). Oh, and I guess Unaware Quagsire should also work ignoring easily these beastly boosts and... Defensive Bibarel (lol :D) ;). So I change my mind - it's stoppable, however you need a bit specialized check.
 
How does Omastar get this move? I can't find it anywhere, and I'm doing research for the Omastar thread. That last bit of information is all I need, so RESERVED, MOFOS.
 
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