Shoddy Battle Team-Free Lemonade Inside!

tdub13

Oh, and BTW, the Lemonade has sulfur in it, I hope you got a barf bag. Anyways, I've been toying with teams on Shoddy under different alts, and this one has been pretty successful. However, I believe it could be better.
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Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Hp/58 Satk/200 SpD
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Earth Power
- Lava Plume
---
Surprisingly, Heatran has been a very good lead for me so far. It shuts down popular sleep leads, and hit them back hard with Earth Power or Lava Plume. This is very bulky, and the burn rate from Lava Plume has helped me a lot. It's very easy to switch this in, with its many resistences and Flash Fire.
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Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/180 Def/76 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
---
Gliscor accomplishes several things for my team. First, it lays Stealth Rock, which softens up the opposing team. Secondly, it counters SD Lucario and Heracross, which would otherwise walk over this team. Evs let it outspeed Jolly T-tar.
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Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Blizzard
- Ice Shard
- Stone Edge
---
So many teams on Shoddy are Mamo weak, it's not even funny. I can't count the amount of times I've swept with this. IT also serves as my dragon killer, as Ice Shard OHKO evry OU dragon.
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Gengar (M) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Focus Blast
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
---
Revenge killer, ground immunity, fighting/normal immune, sleeper, whatever. ScarfGar is awesome. It's really my only special sweeper on the team, and deals with all the Choice Scarf Pokemon running around, and it can sleep potentially threatening Pokemon.
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Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 148 HP/252 Def/8 Spd/100 SAtk
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled
- Aromatherapy
- Thunder Wave
---
Blissey serves as my cleric, as nothing on my team enjoys status or have a way to get rid of it(Heatran). I've found Calm to be much more useful than Bold, as Blissey really has no business taking physical hits anyways.
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Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 172 HP/120 SAtk/216 Spd
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
---
I've replaced Vaporeon with Starmie, due to several suggestions. Starmie and spin away rocks, and counter Gyarados. Although it can't pass Wish, it's faster and can outspeed Infernape/Gengar.

This team has been pretty successful, however I've had troubles with Stall Teams. My team gets worn down despite several members having recovery and I can't seem to deal enough damage. Any problems on how to fix this?

Threat List:

Tyranitar: Gliscor counters physical versions, and Vaporeon 'counters' special versions. Despite Focus Punch doing 2/3 to Heatran, it can be used as a last ditch effort.

Gyarados: Vaporeon easilty counters this, as HP Electric does 75%.

Infernape: GLiscor counters Physical Nape, Vaporeon counters Mixnape, and Blissey handles Special ones.

Azelf: Blissey, although it risks the chance of being Exploded on.

Electivire: This is a bit hard to counter. Most of the time, I'll switch to Gliscor while it uses EQ/T-Punch on Heatran/Gengar/Vaporeon. Then I can take a Ice Punch with Gliscor and OHKO with Earthquake.

Heracross: Gliscor

Salamence: Physical version are taken care of by Gliscor, and Vaporeon occasstionally. SpecsMence are handled easily by Blissey. I haven't come across a Mixmence yet, but I believe Vaporeon can counter it.

Togekiss: Blissey, although ParaFlinch is annoying.

Gengar: Blissey, risk of being exploded on. Gengar can come in and revenge kill it too.

Garchomp: Gliscor can survive 2 unboosted Outrages, and Mamoswine revenge kills.

Lucario: SD Luke loses to Gliscor, but nothing can take on SpecsLuke. Blissey can survive 2 Aura Spheres and T-Wave it, but that's pretty risky.

Starmie: Blissey, Vaporeon. Gengar threatens with Shadow Ball.

Weavile: Vaporeon takes it pretty well, and Gengar can Focus Blast it into bits if something dies.

Dugtrio: Wut?

Porygon-Z: Blissey can T-Wave it.

Machamp: Gliscor, although confusion is annoying.

Snorlax: Haven't run into one yet, but I not sure on how to counter it. Gliscor?

Zapdos: Blissey, Mamoswine and switch in on T-Bolt and Stone Edge.

Suicune: Blissey? I'm not real sure on how to counter this. Help?

Breloom: Heatran takes the Spore, Gliscor comes in and owns with Aerial Ace.

Ninjask: BPer are forces out/killed by Heatran, Gliscor walls attacking versions.

Metagross: Gliscor walls it pretty good and threatens with Earthquake, Vaporeon helps in a pinch.

Heatran: Blissey, Vaporeon, or my own Heatran.

Celebi: Blissey, Gengar can come in on Reflect/Leech Seed/Grass Knot and threaten with Shadow Ball.

Jirachi: Gliscor, Mamoswine EQs it on the revenge.

Dragonite: DDNite loses to Gliscor, mixed lose to Vaporeon, Special loses to Blissey. Mamoswine can reveng kill it.

Mamoswine: Vaporeon's my best bet.

Gallade: Gliscor.

Yanmega: Heatran.

Kingdra: Blissey, Vaporeon.

Roserade: Heatran, Blissey.

Scizor: Gliscor, Heatran.

If this is tl&dr then ignore. What does tl&dr mean? Totally lame and ...
 
I'm not sure Choice Scarf on Gengar is the best option for this particular team, especially since you say you have trouble with stall teams. Gengar is great at breaking stall and you don't seem to use it to counter too much besides the ability to switch into Fighting moves (SpecsCario especially) which shouldn't have too much speed behind them anyway. You could use the same moveset with a different item (Life Orb or Black Sludge come to mind) and I don't think it would make much of a difference other than losing the speed advantage over other scarfers and Starmie which you can paralyse and switch into on a Recover anyway.

I don't like using Vaporeon without both Protect and Wish but its your choice there and it sucks to lose coverage against Fire/Grass/Water so I understand why you have chosen that moveset.

I'm not sure that Heatran is the best lead as it loses to more than half of the common ones iirc, but if it works then it works I suppose.

Looks like a solid team to me... Watch out for SDCario with Hidden Power Ice though.

edit: It also seems that you can't beat SDGarchomp without a sacrifice unless you make some really risky prediction but most teams have to do this anyway due to the power and defenses Garchomp has.

edit2: You may find Jolly is useful on Mamoswine too since you can then outspeed Timid Heatran and Adamant Lucario, as well as most defensive Celebis and Jirachis.
 
I really dislike Heatran:s evs, I would hust use 252 Hp/200 Sp. Defense/58 Special attacks, it gives you more insurance on the likes of gengar. Another thing is that you may want to use bliizard over ice fang on manoswine, as it 2hkos skarmory, and puts a huge dent in celebi. Lastly imo I would put starmie over vaporeon as it seems better. Use:Thunderbolt,Ice Beam Surf,Recover.
:)
 
Earthworm said:
I'm not sure Choice Scarf on Gengar is the best option for this particular team, especially since you say you have trouble with stall teams. Gengar is great at breaking stall and you don't seem to use it to counter too much besides the ability to switch into Fighting moves (SpecsCario especially) which shouldn't have too much speed behind them anyway. You could use the same moveset with a different item (Life Orb or Black Sludge come to mind) and I don't think it would make much of a difference other than losing the speed advantage over other scarfers and Starmie which you can paralyse and switch into on a Recover anyway. But with my current moveset, Gengar can't do anything to Lucario if it gets in on a fighting moves. Although it has Focus Blast, I'd rather not rely on the 70% accuracy. Wide Lens maybe?

I don't like using Vaporeon without both Protect and Wish but its your choice there and it sucks to lose coverage against Fire/Grass/Water so I understand why you have chosen that moveset. Like you said, if I drop any of those moves, I lose coverage and something can set up on me.

I'm not sure that Heatran is the best lead as it loses to more than half of the common ones iirc, but if it works then it works I suppose. It works surprisingly well, if it meets something it can't handle, I'll just switch to a counter.

Looks like a solid team to me... Watch out for SDCario with Hidden Power Ice though. I didn't know SD Luke ran HP Ice?

edit: It also seems that you can't beat SDGarchomp without a sacrifice unless you make some really risky prediction but most teams have to do this anyway due to the power and defenses Garchomp has. My best bet is usually Gliscor, who can take 2 unboosted Dragon Claws and wear it down. If it's stuck on Outrage, Mamo can revenge kill.

edit2: You may find Jolly is useful on Mamoswine too since you can then outspeed Timid Heatran and Adamant Lucario, as well as most defensive Celebis and Jirachis. I'll try that, but would the power loss hurt it too much?
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Brawlex said:
I really dislike Heatran:s evs, I would hust use 252 Hp/200 Sp. Defense/58 Special attacks, it gives you more insurance on the likes of gengar. I just used the set from the anlysis and dumped the speed into both defenses. Blissey already covers Gengar pretty well, but I'll try your set.

Another thing is that you may want to use bliizard over ice fang on manoswine, as it 2hkos skarmory, and puts a huge dent in celebi. I've thought about it, but the accuracy really puts it down. I'll try it, as Ice Fang isn't doing crap.

Lastly imo I would put starmie over vaporeon as it seems better. Use:Thunderbolt,Ice Beam Surf,Recover. If I use Starmie, I lose wish support. That's what I'm really concerned with, otherwise I'm all for it.
:)
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Wow, this is the team that you fought me with! I can honestly say it's a very well built team... although how much damage does NP Grass Knot from Infernape do to Vaporeon? She seems to be your only counter for Infernape so try and keep her alive! BTW, there is no Blissey in your threat list... how do you defeat opposing blissey's?

I really don't think Scarf is a good item for Gengar. Most of the stuff that needs to be revenge killed are Dragons anyways, and Mamoswine handles all that. Try Choice Specs, Life Orb, or maybe.... MCGAR.


PS: certain parties think I was a jerk in our battle because I was so confident about Lucario... lol
 
Vappy is mediocre at providing wish support, I would just go with Starmie for that spot, but unlike Brawley I'd have to recommend Rapid Spin/Tbolt/Surf/Recover to help you deal with non spin blocking stall (which is the more common form from my experience. Then I would drop aerial ace on Gliscor for Ice Fang so you don't have to drop defensive dragon coverage.

Also agreeing with Jolly > Adamant on Mamoswine. The extra power doesn't come close to the number of times you need that extra speed to outspeed Lucario or Heracross and other Pokemon in that range.

I'd recommend putting in something like Metagross over Heatran. Right now the only pokemon that can consistently take down Blissey is Mamoswine which can't switch into constant seismic tosses or even the occasional flamethrower and also has to deal with Life Orb recoil.
 
Infernape could be a problem for this team. It would kill 1/3 or more every time you would face it, this theory-mon so don't actually say I'm wrong, I know that.

Heatran would really die to the most common leads, especially Gyarados

It seems that without Vaporeon, MixNape kills Gliscor with HP Ice, kills Mamoswine, Heatran, Blissey, and Vaporeon if you switch in anyways because of Grass Knot.

Standard MixNape
Naive @ Life Orb
- HP Ice
- Grass Knot
- Flamethrower
- Close Combat

For Suicune, Heatran with HP Electric can be your best bet if you don't want to change Pokemon, and if you do decide to use HP Electric you would be able to take out Gyarados as well. I would advise taking out Sleep Talk, but then Rest wouldn't work and you would need to change the EVs of your Heatran, and switch Rest for Explosion to screw over Blissey because you don't really have a sure-fire way of killing. If you switch in Mamoswine to Blissey, Blissey would switch and and the opponent will now know about your Mamoswine, so you really don't have a surefire way of killing it, Explosion would be helpful.

Heatran
Modest @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA / Speed & 6 HP
- Lava Plume
- HP Electric
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Explosion
 
It doesn't really need HP Ice, I'm sure that NP Flamethrower would OHKO it... lemme check: NVM, it does 76.55% - 89.83%...
 
skiddle said:
It doesn't really need HP Ice, I'm sure that NP Flamethrower would OHKO it... lemme check: NVM, it does 76.55% - 89.83%...
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Okay, but I was just listing the Standard MixNape on Shoddy Battle, and that is the Standard. BTW, HP Ice is needed to OHKO Gliscor according to your calculations! :P
 
IMO Oblivious on Mamoswine is wasteful. Confusion inducing moves are often not used due to it being a crappy pseudo status. The most common one is No Guard Machamp's DynamicPunch, which you will be OHKOed by anyways. Snow Cloak gives you a chance to sweep if your opponent is using Abomasnow.

Lastly, this team isn't very weak to Mix Infernape. Even if that Infernape had Nasty Plot, it would only 2HKO Vappie. Close Combat barely misses the 2HKO, which means Vaporeon beats it. BTW, Grass Knot does a mere 40% to Vaporeon.
 
Aerial Ace isn't all that useful on Gliscor. Yes, it gets STAB and OHKOes Breloom and Heracross, but any Heracross with a Choice item is eventually worn down by Earthquake anyways and walled by Gliscor ad infinitum, and the occasional Swords Dance Heracross will be weakened to the point where Gengar can revenge kill it. Aside from those functions, Aerial Ace has very little to offer; Pokemon that are 2x weak to it take almost the same damage from a neutral Earthquake. Ice Fang is great for Dragons and also wins against Breloom; Gliscor only has to fear Leech Seed if Heatran absorbs the Spore.
 
Thank you for all your insights, y'all. And really, in the times I've battled, Mixape's never really been a problem. That's pretty much the job of Vaporeon.
Vappy is mediocre at providing wish support, I would just go with Starmie for that spot, but unlike Brawley I'd have to recommend Rapid Spin/Tbolt/Surf/Recover to help you deal with non spin blocking stall (which is the more common form from my experience.
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I guess I'll try that since everyone's hating on Vaporeon. (my attempt at a bad joke)

Then I would drop aerial ace on Gliscor for Ice Fang so you don't have to drop defensive dragon coverage.
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But then I can't do anything bad to Heracross. EQ only does 21.85% - 25.83% to 4 hp/0 def Hera.
Also agreeing with Jolly > Adamant on Mamoswine. The extra power doesn't come close to the number of times you need that extra speed to outspeed Lucario or Heracross and other Pokemon in that range.
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fixed
I'd recommend putting in something like Metagross over Heatran. Right now the only pokemon that can consistently take down Blissey is Mamoswine which can't switch into constant seismic tosses or even the occasional flamethrower and also has to deal with Life Orb recoil.
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what Gross set should I run and if I remove Heatran, what should I lead with?

IMO Oblivious on Mamoswine is wasteful. Confusion inducing moves are often not used due to it being a crappy pseudo status. The most common one is No Guard Machamp's DynamicPunch, which you will be OHKOed by anyways. Snow Cloak gives you a chance to sweep if your opponent is using Abomasnow.
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lol, that's what you get for being in a hurry when building a team. I'll fix it.

Great Sage: Kay replace AA with Ice Fang.

Poster below Great Sage: wtf?
 
I think you messed up Blissey's ev spread. 110 Special Attack? lol it doesn't even have a special move. Take those hundred out and add them to HP or Special Defense.
 
Oh wow, ridiculous Weavile weakness. Sadly, the only replacement I can see is something like Metagross or Forretress or Bronzong over Heatran. Not sure how they'll affect you, but at least they can all offer Explosion for later, maybe set up a Screen and perhaps even use SR if you want instead of Gliscor. Gliscor in turn could use Taunt or Knock Off. If you pick Forretress, Starmie just cleared up a slot for Rapid Spin.
 
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