I've seen "SU", "FU", "DNU", and "7U" floating around, sometimes here on Smogon. What are they and what is their relation to ZU?
EDIT: SU=SubzeroUsed, DNU=Do Not Use
EDIT: SU=SubzeroUsed, DNU=Do Not Use
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Resource Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread
- Thread starter Jett
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From what I know, SubzeroUsed is an unofficial fan made tier below ZU while the other ones (less sure about these) are old failed attempts at making a 7th usage based tier from before ZU was a thing
Besides the stuff already mentioned about Subzero Used, 7U depending on the context is either: 1) RBY 7U, based around the Pokemon Perfect tiering system. 2) Imaginary Used (IU) (that's another one), below SubZero Used (SU) but at an older state. From generations 1-4 3) SubZero Used "competitor" (okay not really, just another version of SU) From generations 5-8
FU is the older term described for ZeroUsed by the PU community around when the current gen was ORAS/XY
is there any relevant viability rankings yet?
Unfortunately the answer is no. With the fast changing meta from all the new drops each month, usually Viability Lists (more broad rankings from Top, High, Mid, Low) are more common. However, it seems like they are either behind on getting one out this month, or won’t be doing on at all. Full on Viability Rankings likely will not come until the meta has solidified and when new drops are far less common which won’t be for another few months.
Sun is definitely a fine strategy to use at the moment. Offense in general is quite strong at the moment, and Sun teams can outpace these teams and take advantage of the fact that the Pokemon on these teams are fairly fragile. Do be aware that some of these Pokemon will still have tools to threaten Sun abusers despite being slower when Sunny Day is active such as boosted Ice Shards from Sneasel. The best Chlorophyll abusers are probably Lilligant, Shiftry, and Victreebel, but there's definitely room to play around with the different options available. Recently love chants dropped a bunch of teams in the team bazaar thread which included a sun team so be sure to check that out also.Have Sun teams any potential? On paper we have strong users such as,
,
or
and setters such as
or
Also Heat Rock being legal seems pretty cool.
NFE bans have no relation to the usage tiering system. Gurdurr is already "officially" a ZU Pokemon as it had dropped from PU to ZU during the February shifts. If you mean where it would rank on a ZU VR, it'd probably sit around A- or B+.
Way too much competition over other Electric-types like Magneton, Rotom, both Raichu formes, and Eelektross. Ampharos's good SpA and capabilities as a slow pivot isn't enough when the meta has gotten much faster and stronger. Magneton, Rotom, and the Raichu's much better Speed makes them better as wallbreakers, Speed control (for Rotom and Raichus), and they all have better movepools and abilities to take advantage of their checks. Magneton, Rotom, and Raichu-Alola even have a secondary typing to give them additional offensive/defensive presence. Eelektross as a slow pivot/attacker completely outclasses it too b/c of Levitate, and better utility choices like Knock Off, Coil, and U-turn.
Ampharos probably isn't the worst thing you could use but it just doesn't stand out enough to be used over other Electric-types.
Hey y'all! Still pretty new to competitive at this point and I've been trying out this set on Venomoth does this work ok/is Venomoth viable at all?
Venomoth (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Sludge Wave
- Psychic
Venomoth (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Sludge Wave
- Psychic
Hi! I’m glad to see you’ve been taking an interest in competitive Pokemon, and specifically ZU!!! That set seems to do the job well, but here are the sets on smogdex for reference https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/venomoth/ You can also use smogdex to check out common sets for other Pokemon you may be using too. Have fun laddering!
alcremie is definitely one of the most annoying mons to deal with in the current meta. ways to stop it on its tracks include:Guys, I need some help, how to deal with?
This thing can be so annoying to face: nice bulk, can boost both its defenses, reliable recovery, excellent typing and can't be Taunt'ed/Encore'd..
- tricking a choice item (which can be done by mons like hoopa and mesprit)
- using phazing moves to force it out of the field (roar and whirlwind can be fit into many walls, like articuno, bombirdier (after tera), bastiodon, farigiraf, and more)
- have a mon with haze to remove its boosts (both qwilfish forms, muk, articuno, and more can fit the move in their movesets)
- attack it hard before it gets going (this one is a bit less reliable since tera is a thing)
hope that helps!
Hello! Choice Band Snorlax struggles a bit in this meta with our plethora of Ghost-, Rock- and Steel-types. An All-Out Attacker set would work better so that Snorlax can choose between moves instead of relying on correct predictions, but it ultimately functions best as a special defensive wall like recommended in its Smogdex set. We will have drops July 1st, stay tuned!
Venomoth has fallen off a bit since it has trouble getting past popular picks like Hoopa, Snorlax, Regirock, Dudunsparce, and Articuno, since they all easily beating it. I would refer to the VL to see what some of the other top Pokemon are right now. It’s a bit outdated but it’s still pretty on point. If you’re looking for Quiver Dance users or Special Attackers, I would look into Oricorio, Hoopa, Mesprit, Mismagius, or Alcremie (although it might get banned soon).
Good to know, because I was using a team with Venomoth on it and I seemed to be losing a lot (maybe I'm just bad lol). But thanks
this is a team from a much older version of the metagame. you can still use it to success on the ladder im sure, but as you pointed out, they are not the most viable mons in the current iteration of zu. i’d honestly recommend starting from scratch or finding more recent teams to use
Now that GSC ZU has been totally transformed, when is the next planned GSC ZU team tour? Is it the Olympiad, or do we get another one sooner?
GSC ZU is only featured in Olympiad, team tournament wise. As for individuals, GSC ZU Cup will start sometime after September 9th when ZU Classic begins.
Hello there! I am currently making a "Ranking the Starter Pokemon of Gen 9" video and I have a few questions regarding the ones in ZU. Unlike the other tiers, I don't have any deep metagame knowledge on ZU and there is no VR to work off of.
I can see that Decidueye-H is #5 in usage for the past month. I am assuming comes off of its incredible support movepool and bulk, with its natural typing working well against some common mons (Electrode-H, Kingdra, Jolteon, etc.).
Charizard and Typhlosion are the cookie cutter Sun mons, but I am assuming that NU's Drought ban affects ZU, so I am also assuming both are in a bit of struggle state especially with Kingdra being #1 in usage, and other special walls like Alcremie and Snorlax also being prominent in the tier.
Samurott is the one with the most question marks for me in how good it is in the tier.
Meganium needs no explanation. lol
I am guessing Decid-H > Zard > Typh > Rott > Megan.
Sorry for the somewhat lengthy post, but can you kind of confirm my glancing observations for each of these? I am curious in learning more about the tier.
I can see that Decidueye-H is #5 in usage for the past month. I am assuming comes off of its incredible support movepool and bulk, with its natural typing working well against some common mons (Electrode-H, Kingdra, Jolteon, etc.).
Charizard and Typhlosion are the cookie cutter Sun mons, but I am assuming that NU's Drought ban affects ZU, so I am also assuming both are in a bit of struggle state especially with Kingdra being #1 in usage, and other special walls like Alcremie and Snorlax also being prominent in the tier.
Samurott is the one with the most question marks for me in how good it is in the tier.
Meganium needs no explanation. lol
I am guessing Decid-H > Zard > Typh > Rott > Megan.
Sorry for the somewhat lengthy post, but can you kind of confirm my glancing observations for each of these? I am curious in learning more about the tier.
Hi! We currently have a VR, though it is quite outdated since several of the Pokemon there have had viablilities based on previous metas (sun abusers like Leafeon and Scovillain are much more niche, Sneasel being underexplored). ZU council intends on working on a VR soon for ZUPL, however, so stay tuned for updates.
Decidueye-Hisui's high usage is indeed supported by its excellent utility movepool and helpful defensive stats. The variety in its support toolkit includes Knock Off, Defog, U-turn, Roost, and even Night Shade and Taunt to back up its defenses. While its Speed is low for an offensive Pokemon, the high Attack, typing, and versatility with moves like Triple Arrows, Sucker Punch, Swords Dance, the aformentioned Knock Off + U-turn, and even moves like Grassy Glide for Grassy Terrain teams makes it a great fit for many teams, offensive and defensive alike. As it stands, Decidueye-H continues to be a prominent force in the current metagame despite gaining two new checks in Whimsicott and Grafaiai.
Charizard and Typhlosion now sit in a worse spot due to Drought's ban. Charizard has ran specially offensive and Belly Drum sets to decent success, though it fails to live up to the success it had on sun teams. Nevertheless, it still remains a decent attacker here. Typhlosion has been fairly strong thanks to its solid Speed and not being as reliant on sun to function, though unlike Charizard, it's easier to fit on teams without a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock and usually being consistent with Eruptions thanks to Boots. Kingdra has also banned as of our recent suspect. And yes, Alcremie and Snorlax continue to become elite walls and wincons in the tier; Alcremie in particular remains a focal point thanks to its typing, bulk, Recover, and Aroma Veil being very consistent and easy to set up and close out games.
Samurott is in a weird spot where it's not bad per se, it just faces a ton of competition with other offensive Water-types like Bruxish, Clawitzer, Qwilfish, Veluza, and even Poliwrath for a slot on teams. Its Speed is in a crowded spot where standing up to the power crept meta here requires even more standout qualities, and while I think Samurott is perfectly usable to dismantle slower builds with SD or mixed sets, the aformentioned Water-types above (esp. Bruxish) just tend to be easier to get consistent milage out of. Be it power, Speed, a secondary typing...but again, it's not bad, it's just hard for it to distinguish out of the other Water-types.
Meganium sits alongside memes like Regigigas and Mightyena for how outclassed it is by...literally every other Grass-type and defensive Pokemon. You're not wrong about the worst starter here, as soon as it dropped here it never saw use.
I think the comparison is going a bit on apples and oranges. In terms of viability? They fulfill different roles here, as you can't really compare Charizard's offensive prowess with say, Decidueye-H's defensive utility. But based on how well they fulfill their roles and how they fare in the meta, I'd switch around Zard and Typhlosion's placements and you'd be good to go.
Hope this helps!
I think you mostly have it correct. Everything about H-Decidueye is spot on.
I'd argue that Charizard and Typhlosion are either equal or Typhlosion being better. The main thing Zard has over Typh is the ability to run sets other than Choice items, but those sets are really lackluster and only have surprise factor going for them. Outside of Sun, Typh is just plain better Choicer since Eruption is 150 BP regardless of the presence of Sun while Weather Ball is worthless without it. And even with sun Choice-Zard being locked into single move means its better movepool is effectively pointless. Regardless Sun teams players tend use use both Zard and Typh anyway.
tdlr If one must be put in a higher place, it should be Typhlosion, but having an = sign there would be acceptable.
Samurott is weird because it is quite versatile offensively, but it doesn't quite have the power to really justify its use even with in the low power level of ZU.
I've never seen a single person use Meganium the entire time I've played ZU, your assessment of it as the worst is sadly spot on.
glad to see an interest in the tier! your assumptions were pretty much all correct, though we do have a viability list.
decid also functions as a potent and at times oppressive sweeper with its wide attacking options--stab cc, triple arrows, and leaf blade, and coverage options like knock, sucker, and u-turn--bolstered by sd. zard and typh were staples on sun, which was indeed affected by nu's ban on drought, but zard is still serviceable as a standalone attacker thanks to its useful speed tier and high special attack. it also sees play as a physical sweeper with sd, dd, and belly drum, and moves like flare blitz, eq, thunder punch, and acro. typhlosion is a bit more one-dimensional as its coverage is way more lackluster than zard's, though it boasts identical stats and a powerful stab eruption.
samurott has seen better days. it was once a scary attacker that could go physical, special, or mixed, with move options like sd, knock, and flip turn, and held items like boots, lorb, and mystic water. it was a wild card that could mow down teams if you didnt know its set. it's mostly fallen out of favor because of faster and/or stronger water-types, and often competes for your team's water-type slot with qwilfish, which provides invaluable utility. and meganium is meganium. it's got some cool new tricks like knock off and dice + bullet seed, but offensive sd sets kind of have 4mss (you want sd, stab, eq, knock, synth, maybe even tera blast rock) and just fall short in the role with other grass-type mons like the aforementioned decidueye, or ones with more immediate power like scovillain and even alolan duggy, or the insane speed of hisuian electrode, or heck even dipplin is better