Resource Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread

[shreves0]

Why did Venusaur drop to ZU in this Gen? After an amazing string of performances in UU and RU, how come it's all the down in the lowest tier?

 

[lettuce]

Why did Venusaur drop to ZU in this Gen? After an amazing string of performances in UU and RU, how come it's all the down in the lowest tier?

The simplest answer is because of usage-based tiering. It’s B+ on the PU viability rankings, but since it hasn’t reached the 4.52% threshold in PU, it’s down here in ZU.

I don’t have extensive knowledge about any other tier so this next bit is all speculation. But with Vileplume and Amoongus lingering around NU/PU this gen (the sleep ban dropped Amoongus from OU/UU territory), Venu faces more competition from them as a defensive grass/poison.

Offensively, the only thing impressive for Venu is the fact that it gets earth power for coverage. 100 SpA and 80 speed isn’t a lot at all, especially for higher tier standards. It’s good in sun with Chlorophyll, growth (I think), solar beam, and weather ball, but sun is the type of strategy that tends to either be banned from a tier or too inconsistent to rise up its users out of low tiers.

Now, it’s INCREDIBLE in ZU. it’s bulky, strong, and/or fast (base 80 OP) depending on how you run it. It can run almost any EVs and can run any of acid spray, sludge bomb, giga drain, energy ball, leaf storm, sunny day weather ball solar beam for itself, earth power/quake, synthesis, and knock off. The power level is low enough in ZU for it to basically do whatever it wants. As you go higher up in tiers though, the power level gets higher, venu can get away with less, and it has to deal with more competition from mons like vileplume and Amoongus.

 

[Evan the wise]

can y'all suspect test mespirit? it is so over centralizing and team building is harder because they need to counter it more and it's so good at it's many, I mean many roles, heck, it's S+ on the viability rankings, venomoth got banned but not mesprit? this must be fixed, suspect it please. we need this to calm the meta.

 

[lettuce]

can y'all suspect test mespirit? it is so over centralizing and team building is harder because they need to counter it more and it's so good at it's many, I mean many roles, heck, it's S+ on the viability rankings, venomoth got banned but not mesprit? this must be fixed, suspect it please. we need this to calm the meta.

It's only regular S-tier on the viability rankings, and it's not suspect worthy in my opinion, and honestly its the worst its ever been right now.

If you're struggling against the PhysDef utility Mesprit (with Psychic Noise, Stealth Rock, Knock Off/Encore, and U-Turn), try running Skuntank, who is usually OK switching into any one of these moves. Skuntank's Knock Off can either KO, heavily chip, or force out Mesprit. And, if you run into a Nasty Plot Mesprit, it's forced to commit to Tera Fairy if it wants any chance of breaking through Skuntank, which makes the Mesprit weak to Gunk Shot and therefore more killable from Skuntank.

If you don't want to have to use Skuntank, you can run any fighting with Gunk Shot and make Mesprit switch into that a couple of times. It doesn't have recovery so it's pretty easy to chip a Mesprit down through a game with strong neutral attacks like Gunk Shot.

 

[Evan the wise]

It's only regular S-tier on the viability rankings, and it's not suspect worthy in my opinion, and honestly its the worst its ever been right now.

If you're struggling against the PhysDef utility Mesprit (with Psychic Noise, Stealth Rock, Knock Off/Encore, and U-Turn), try running Skuntank, who is usually OK switching into any one of these moves. Skuntank's Knock Off can either KO, heavily chip, or force out Mesprit. And, if you run into a Nasty Plot Mesprit, it's forced to commit to Tera Fairy if it wants any chance of breaking through Skuntank, which makes the Mesprit weak to Gunk Shot and therefore more killable from Skuntank.

If you don't want to have to use Skuntank, you can run any fighting with Gunk Shot and make Mesprit switch into that a couple of times. It doesn't have recovery so it's pretty easy to chip a Mesprit down through a game with strong neutral attacks like Gunk Shot.

there's a nomination at the bottom of the vr, made by kafkafoon, on how overpowered mesprit is:
S ---> S+
This is by far the best mon in the tier and is leagues above the other S rank of , It's simply the best at every role, you want a rocker? , you want a scarfer? a sweeper? , you get my(his now since it's my post and i'm quoting his) point. This mon has a set that fits on every team, and is so good that it should be on every team, the only reason not to have a is because you want your to do something else. The sets themselfs are also really flexible, you want to counter NP with a ? Thunderbolt, ? Psyshock, Tera Fairy Draining Kiss, Trick Room slow . this mon can simply beat all of it's so called counters with the right moves. It's also an unstoppable rocker, and to top that it has all the good utility moves with Knock Off U-Turn Encore and even Thunder Wave. I remember using an AV and not liking it becuase I only got one and a half mons out of . To sum it all up is simply better than every other mon in the tier and deserves and S+ Rank or even higher.

Below: found footage of the roulette
View attachment 814177-Kafkafoon quote(legit, he did post this).

 

[lettuce]

there's a nomination at the bottom of the vr, made by kafkafoon, on how overpowered mesprit is:
S ---> S+
This is by far the best mon in the tier and is leagues above the other S rank of , It's simply the best at every role, you want a rocker? , you want a scarfer? a sweeper? , you get my point. This mon has a set that fits on every team, and is so good that it should be on every team, the only reason not to have a is because you want your to do something else. The sets themselfs are also really flexible, you want to counter NP with a ? Thunderbolt, ? Psyshock, Tera Fairy Draining Kiss, Trick Room slow . this mon can simply beat all of it's so called counters with the right moves. It's also an unstoppable rocker, and to top that it has all the good utility moves with Knock Off U-Turn Encore and even Thunder Wave. I remember using an AV and not liking it becuase I only got one and a half mons out of . To sum it all up is simply better than every other mon in the tier and deserves and S+ Rank or even higher.

Below: found footage of the roulette
View attachment 814177-Kafkafoon quote.

That was a post made in March. Skuntank (best hard counter to Mesprit we have) dropped into the tier in April.

Nominations on the VR are voted on by the VR council, who chose not to rise Mesprit to S+ when they updated it a couple weeks ago.

The first post in that thread has the current VR: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-zu-viability-rankings.3747001/

 

[Evan the wise]

That was a post made in March. Skuntank (best hard counter to Mesprit we have) dropped into the tier in April.

Nominations on the VR are voted on by the VR council, who chose not to rise Mesprit to S+ when they updated it a couple weeks ago.

The first post in that thread has the current VR: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-zu-viability-rankings.3747001/

you have a point, skuntank could finally counter it, but you never know until you test it, that's why I want the test so bad.

 

[t44Torkoal]

Why isn't ranked?

 

[Tizio]

Why isn't ranked?

If you think it should be, make a post advocating for it in the viability rankings thread.

 

[zaybo_0]

If I wanted to use Zangoose in the higher tiers, what team would ya'll recommend?

 

[lettuce]

If I wanted to use Zangoose in the higher tiers, what team would ya'll recommend?

The best Zangoose set here is Toxic Boost + Toxic Orb + Facade, probably with Swords Dance, Knock Off, and Quick Attack or Close Combat. It's not the best in ZU since its revenged easily by our choice scarfers (all fighting type) but even though normal resists (Orthworm, Regirock, Naclstack, Sableye, Spiritomb) are somewhat common, they're beatable.

If you are using Zangoose in a higher tier (or ZU ig) I'd consider:

• Can you get away with its top speed being 306?
  • in ZU that's faster than non-scarf Toxicroak, so yes. I'd check the speed tiers for the tier you want to play in, so you can see if you need to pair Zangoose with faster mons or just accept that it's only outspeeding defensive mons
  • If not, how do you fit speed control (or answer faster things)?
• How do you get Zangoose on the field?
  • teammates with pivot moves, using Zangoose to revenge KO things, double switches
• How do you beat ghosts/steels/rocks/things walled by Zangoose?
  • Teammates that help with them; Zangoose also has good coverage if you want Zangoose to break/chip walls for something else

That's probably how I'd approach it? What you end up doing with it greatly depends on the tier. A ZU team probably won't be good if you just started loading it in RU, so I'd recommend building something new or editing a sample from the tier you want to use Zangoose in.

 

[cakebugg]

hey guys!1! so i was browsing the tiers of pokemon on showdown and when i finished looking at pu, zu came and i got confused, cuz i didnt see any battle format available for zu pokemon. it took me too long to realize that the format and this thread are under unofficial metagames? zu has its own pokemon separated from pu and theres even zubl pokemon, so im wondering why its not an official metagame? i hopethis is a valid question

 

[BaitWiz]

hey guys!1! so i was browsing the tiers of pokemon on showdown and when i finished looking at pu, zu came and i got confused, cuz i didnt see any battle format available for zu pokemon. it took me too long to realize that the format and this thread are under unofficial metagames? zu has its own pokemon separated from pu and theres even zubl pokemon, so im wondering why its not an official metagame? i hopethis is a valid question

ZU isn't an official metagame due to overall tier activity; we're simply not as active of a tier as the official tiers you've noted here, though actions are being taken to work towards making ZU an official tier at some point in the future. Otherwise, though, ZU works very much like the tiers above it and has many of the same resources and things that those tiers have!

 

[cakebugg]

ZU isn't an official metagame due to overall tier activity; we're simply not as active of a tier as the official tiers you've noted here, though actions are being taken to work towards making ZU an official tier at some point in the future. Otherwise, though, ZU works very much like the tiers above it and has many of the same resources and things that those tiers have!

ohh okay ic, this tier looks very fun and whimsical, i hope it becomes official soon!! thank u for ur time

 

[zaybo_0]

The best Zangoose set here is Toxic Boost + Toxic Orb + Facade, probably with Swords Dance, Knock Off, and Quick Attack or Close Combat. It's not the best in ZU since its revenged easily by our choice scarfers (all fighting type) but even though normal resists (Orthworm, Regirock, Naclstack, Sableye, Spiritomb) are somewhat common, they're beatable.

If you are using Zangoose in a higher tier (or ZU ig) I'd consider:

• Can you get away with its top speed being 306?
  • in ZU that's faster than non-scarf Toxicroak, so yes. I'd check the speed tiers for the tier you want to play in, so you can see if you need to pair Zangoose with faster mons or just accept that it's only outspeeding defensive mons
  • If not, how do you fit speed control (or answer faster things)?
• How do you get Zangoose on the field?
  • teammates with pivot moves, using Zangoose to revenge KO things, double switches
• How do you beat ghosts/steels/rocks/things walled by Zangoose?
  • Teammates that help with them; Zangoose also has good coverage if you want Zangoose to break/chip walls for something else

That's probably how I'd approach it? What you end up doing with it greatly depends on the tier. A ZU team probably won't be good if you just started loading it in RU, so I'd recommend building something new or editing a sample from the tier you want to use Zangoose in.

Gotcha. I might edit out a team from PU to make things a tad bit easier.