If you couldn't already tell by the post immediately before this one, I really REALLY like Thundurus-Therian. One of the most threatening things to see behind a successful dual screens (I almost said substitute because I'm fantasizing about using gen 3 subpass zapdos on this team to make him even more scary). HP Flying Thundy arguably 6-0's shed stall and HP Ice Thundy T is super threatening, notably beating all non-scarf non-sash landorus. While he is very flawed, he's also incredibly fun to use and obscenely strong.
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OU SM OU Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ausma
- Start date
the goat, K-B
bulky set goes ridiculous
bulky set goes ridiculous
erm akshually he is a dragon not a goat
I was gonna ask what pokemon do you like to run with Thundurus-Therian. Im not that familiar with HO so I dont really know what they normally run except Lead Lando-T.
dual screens tapu koko and and a hawlucha to pair with that terrain. I also choose to run mega alakazam as my "do not lose instantly to rain" button and thundurus therian isn't exactly optimal but he's still very good and extremely underrated in the tier. I think he even has a place on non-ho teams as an alternative to zapdos
please enlighten me on this bulky kyu b set, I'm out of the loop
Mega Mawile AoA with Fire & Ice Punch Manaphy in Rain with Waterium-Z SD Mega Garchomp in Sand, very Underrated, Modest Specs Tapu Lele
can I peep the sets
SD Z-Steel Exca
4A (with HP Ice) Mega-Garchomp
Rocks Toxic Hippowdon
Haze Toxic Toxapex
Flamethrower Heavy Slam Celesteela
Defog U-turn Knock Off RH Tornadus-Therian
(Smogdex ev spreads are fine for every pokemon here)
I think it's very silly that sand veil is legal in this generation. I know sand is temporary but I have literally won games because I was able to dodge a move with garchomp before megaing. Probably worth looking at during the next tiering convening or however this works even if it's not that big of a deal because it's just kind of the principle of the thing
cringe double post alert but this team is actually pretty fun
one thing I noticed is that kyurem black kinda fucks it really hard without mind games + getting a toxic off but that's one of the only major flaws I can really find in my (Very limited) experience.
also I somehow built this from memory this morning but put a gliscor in the torn t slot and it's not even that bad (and is also definitely exacerbating the kyurem problem)
Hi, I was using this little fellas 
recently with this set:
Mandibuzz (F) @ Dread Plate
Ability: Overcoat
- Knock Off
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Taunt / Iron Defense / U-turn / Toxic / Whirlwind
Mandibuzz is fat but, on paper, it looks quite passive and does not provide anything apart a bulk and some niche resists. The idea of that set is to patch this issue and let Mandibuzz being actually meaningful in a team. Foul Play boosted with Dread Plate hit hard and punish DD or SD users (even Mawile-Mega or Gliscor). Knock Off and Roost are obvious. However, I'm not sure about the best last move. Taunt is great to avoid hazards from Ferrothorn, Skarmory or Clefable, U-turn is rarely bad (same for Toxic), Whirlwind is useful with Toxic Spikes and Iron Defense can be clutch in the right conditions.
For the ev spread, I was using mainly two spreads:
-EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 Spe
Bold Nature
-EVs: 240 HP / 28 Def / 8 SpD / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
The first one let's you check Swampert-Mega under Rain or Kartana Band while you outspeed Magnezone Modest. The second one let's you outspeed Heatran Jolly while you still retain the bulk to take Hydro Pump from Greninja Specs under Rain and a Flare Blitz from Charizard-Mega-X after one Dragon Dance at full. Both spreads cover Alakazam-Mega lacking Calm Mind + Focus Blast.
In term of core I tried, I like these two the most:
+ 
: While Heatran provide a strong fairy-resist, Mandibuzz will provide a Ground-immunity and also a better check to Alakazam-Mega.
+ 
: I tend to use Spedef Hippowdon with that core since Mandibuzz will cover Charizard-Mega-X or other Ground. Hippowdon will cover Zapdos and Tapu Koko while Mandibuzz match well into Kartana or Swampert-Mega. Overcoat obviously pairs well with Sand Stream.
Not sure if Mandibuzz actually has a niche in the metagame, but it was decent/good for what I saw during test on ladder or friendlies. I will see later if I can post some decent squads with it.
recently with this set:Mandibuzz (F) @ Dread Plate
Ability: Overcoat
- Knock Off
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Taunt / Iron Defense / U-turn / Toxic / Whirlwind
Mandibuzz is fat but, on paper, it looks quite passive and does not provide anything apart a bulk and some niche resists. The idea of that set is to patch this issue and let Mandibuzz being actually meaningful in a team. Foul Play boosted with Dread Plate hit hard and punish DD or SD users (even Mawile-Mega or Gliscor). Knock Off and Roost are obvious. However, I'm not sure about the best last move. Taunt is great to avoid hazards from Ferrothorn, Skarmory or Clefable, U-turn is rarely bad (same for Toxic), Whirlwind is useful with Toxic Spikes and Iron Defense can be clutch in the right conditions.
For the ev spread, I was using mainly two spreads:
-EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 Spe
Bold Nature
-EVs: 240 HP / 28 Def / 8 SpD / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
The first one let's you check Swampert-Mega under Rain or Kartana Band while you outspeed Magnezone Modest. The second one let's you outspeed Heatran Jolly while you still retain the bulk to take Hydro Pump from Greninja Specs under Rain and a Flare Blitz from Charizard-Mega-X after one Dragon Dance at full. Both spreads cover Alakazam-Mega lacking Calm Mind + Focus Blast.
In term of core I tried, I like these two the most:
+ : While Heatran provide a strong fairy-resist, Mandibuzz will provide a Ground-immunity and also a better check to Alakazam-Mega. + : I tend to use Spedef Hippowdon with that core since Mandibuzz will cover Charizard-Mega-X or other Ground. Hippowdon will cover Zapdos and Tapu Koko while Mandibuzz match well into Kartana or Swampert-Mega. Overcoat obviously pairs well with Sand Stream.Not sure if Mandibuzz actually has a niche in the metagame, but it was decent/good for what I saw during test on ladder or friendlies. I will see later if I can post some decent squads with it.
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During SMPL (and last year too), I saw that there was a Suspect Slot for Aegislash. What is the overall effect of unbanning it?
german111 runs fire punch medi
Fire types will become even more important, with zardy being the best mega in the tier lol. Fat becomes even more cancerous with aegislash as king shield is an abomination from satan. HO gets another broken pokemon eating every attack and KOing in return. This is a pokemon that is immediately warping teambuilding and the tier becoming weather war is quite a loss in diversity that I think is a bad idea.
On the subject of unbanning stuff, and in the same vein, I'd be interested to see how a Shaymin-S unban would affect the meta, if at all. It's effectively a better Togekiss, but Stealth Rock still exists, plenty of things with a Scarf are still faster than it, and notably unboosted (Specs) Tapu Koko and MLop still outspeed and OHKO. I guess you just end up with Magearna running Ice Beam on AV sets (which you should run anyway imo) since Earth Power only just 3HKOs with the standard Ubers Life Orb set
Hi everyone, recently, I was testing this funny little guy 
with this set:
While I'm aware SM OU is full of breaker that looks way better (Kartana, Tapu Lele, ...), I still believe a lot in Diggersby. One of its biggest appeal is Frustration. This move is extremely free to spam and, on practice, a lot of balance struggle to switch on Frustration + Earthquake (especially with recent trends using core such as Cresselia + Toxapex). Moreover, even if you fail to predict, the damage output of Diggersby is nuts and it will deal a ton of damage on most normal-resist:
-
: 236+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Frustration vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 123-144 (34.9 - 40.9%)
-
: 236+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 90-106 (26.9 - 31.7%)
-
: 236+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Frustration vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 111-131 (29.6 - 35%)
Diggersby can also run a lot of different options such as Spikes, U-turn and Knock Off. Imo, Quick Attack is really useful to deal with the likes of Volcarona and Mega Swampert while giving a potential winco. Foul Play is also neat to offer a nice midground into Landorus-T + Heatran core while having a neutral move to hit the likes of Celesteela and Kartana:
-
: 0 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Celesteela: 196-231 (49.2 - 58%)
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: 128 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 294-347 (101 - 119.2%)
Finally, Diggersby provide an essential immunity to Electric-type and, even with the Adamant nature, is fast enough to outspeed Modest Heatran.
In term of structure, I didn't try any kind of Diggersby + Magnezone core since I dislike Magnezone on anything not named Balance. After some tests, my conclusion was that the optimal playstyles with Diggersby is somewhere between BO and Balance. I will show two teams I liked with Diggersby then explain some cores that seems ideal if you wish to use the funny bunny:
-Diggersby + Mega Latios BO:
https://pokepast.es/d8f0c694511d7bf2
Very straight-forward team. Diggersby + Spikes Ferrothorn pressure a lot Mega Latios's checks. Fast Zapdos offer much more flexibility into Mega Scizor and pretty much anything. Overally, cool team but feels like it can be improved somehow.
-Diggersby + Mega Charizard Y Offense:
https://pokepast.es/24765278bf2b9268
It's basically ABR sun offense but with Diggersby over Weavile. The idea here is that Fire Punch under sun melt Skarmory for free meaning Diggersby + Kartana will cover most Balance MU while Mega Charizard Y will carry Offensive MU. Not a great team but still alright.
Like I said, I will put some words about the cores I think are ideal if you want to build with Diggersby:
-+: I think those two are pretty solid since Tapu Fini likes the Ground-type provided by Diggersby while Tapu Fini cover the Water and Fight weakness of Diggersby's Normal- and Ground-type. Finally, misty terrain is really useful to helps Diggersby to switch more easily on the field.
-+: Spikes support is crazy to completly fuck up any slow builds. Moreover, Ferrothorn cover the Grass and Water weakness of Diggersby.
-+
/: Having a fast mega to force reactions from the opponent and use them to give opening to Diggersby is the best way to use it imo. Mega Diancie offer more momentum with Magic Bounce and Mega Latios provides more defensive value (which cover nicely Diggersby's weakness).
That's all for today. How you enjoyed the post and S/O Proftreez for helping me building and testing Diggersby.
with this set:Diggersby @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
Happiness: 0
EVs: 8 HP / 236 Atk / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Foul Play / Fire Punch
- Quick Attack
Ability: Huge Power
Happiness: 0
EVs: 8 HP / 236 Atk / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Foul Play / Fire Punch
- Quick Attack
While I'm aware SM OU is full of breaker that looks way better (Kartana, Tapu Lele, ...), I still believe a lot in Diggersby. One of its biggest appeal is Frustration. This move is extremely free to spam and, on practice, a lot of balance struggle to switch on Frustration + Earthquake (especially with recent trends using core such as Cresselia + Toxapex). Moreover, even if you fail to predict, the damage output of Diggersby is nuts and it will deal a ton of damage on most normal-resist:
-
: 236+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Frustration vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 123-144 (34.9 - 40.9%)-
: 236+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 90-106 (26.9 - 31.7%)-
: 236+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Frustration vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 111-131 (29.6 - 35%)Diggersby can also run a lot of different options such as Spikes, U-turn and Knock Off. Imo, Quick Attack is really useful to deal with the likes of Volcarona and Mega Swampert while giving a potential winco. Foul Play is also neat to offer a nice midground into Landorus-T + Heatran core while having a neutral move to hit the likes of Celesteela and Kartana:
-
: 0 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Celesteela: 196-231 (49.2 - 58%)-
: 128 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 294-347 (101 - 119.2%)Finally, Diggersby provide an essential immunity to Electric-type and, even with the Adamant nature, is fast enough to outspeed Modest Heatran.
In term of structure, I didn't try any kind of Diggersby + Magnezone core since I dislike Magnezone on anything not named Balance. After some tests, my conclusion was that the optimal playstyles with Diggersby is somewhere between BO and Balance. I will show two teams I liked with Diggersby then explain some cores that seems ideal if you wish to use the funny bunny:
-Diggersby + Mega Latios BO:
https://pokepast.es/d8f0c694511d7bf2
Very straight-forward team. Diggersby + Spikes Ferrothorn pressure a lot Mega Latios's checks. Fast Zapdos offer much more flexibility into Mega Scizor and pretty much anything. Overally, cool team but feels like it can be improved somehow.
-Diggersby + Mega Charizard Y Offense:
https://pokepast.es/24765278bf2b9268
It's basically ABR sun offense but with Diggersby over Weavile. The idea here is that Fire Punch under sun melt Skarmory for free meaning Diggersby + Kartana will cover most Balance MU while Mega Charizard Y will carry Offensive MU. Not a great team but still alright.
Like I said, I will put some words about the cores I think are ideal if you want to build with Diggersby:
-
+: I think those two are pretty solid since Tapu Fini likes the Ground-type provided by Diggersby while Tapu Fini cover the Water and Fight weakness of Diggersby's Normal- and Ground-type. Finally, misty terrain is really useful to helps Diggersby to switch more easily on the field.-
+: Spikes support is crazy to completly fuck up any slow builds. Moreover, Ferrothorn cover the Grass and Water weakness of Diggersby.-
+/: Having a fast mega to force reactions from the opponent and use them to give opening to Diggersby is the best way to use it imo. Mega Diancie offer more momentum with Magic Bounce and Mega Latios provides more defensive value (which cover nicely Diggersby's weakness).That's all for today. How you enjoyed the post and S/O Proftreez for helping me building and testing Diggersby.
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Short answer is that the Meta is dominated by HO (filled with Fire-types such as Mega Charizard X, Volcarona and Victini), Sand with Excadrill (to answer those HO) and other different playstyles (Rain Manaphy, Psy-Spam with Tapu Lele, Hazard Stacks Balance, ...). Moreover, Cresselia (popular in Balance and HO) is bulky enough to check Mega Mawile's variants without SD.
Therefore, Mega Mawile suffer of not being self-sufficient to beat modern balance (since Spikes and chip damages in general are very hurtful for it) and also not being very useful into HO (too much Fire-types that can abuse Mega Mawile or Tapu Lele that deny Sucker Punch).
Finally, a lot of Mega Mawile's usual partners are also quite underwhelming in the current meta (Tapu Bulu, Rotom-Wash, Garchomp, ...).
Yeah no, the only Uber I could considers unbanning or at least testing would Deoxys Defense but that's all.
IC. Thank you!
Wdym certainly? Isn’t that the whole point of a suspect test?
This post found its way into my notifications so I figured I’d chime in while I have a moment. Suspect tests are traditionally Smogon’s way of letting the community, more specifically the more experienced playerbase, voting and having a say in tiering policy decisions regarding specific Pokémon, moves, items, Abilities, and more. The problem some people have with the system is that even though the counsels that host these tests are still giving some power to the people, they’re still the ones with the final say as to what can and can be tested. Ironically, sometimes tier counsels will host their own votes on what to suspect test before actually “revealing” the suspect test to the public.
I used to have my own gripes with the system but save for maybe Gen 5 OU’s tiering history
Now, switching topics over to Darkrai and how some posts suggest it could be tested to drop from Ubers. On paper, this makes sense for the reasons other people have already posted about. Theoretically, this could work, but you also have to ask yourself something. Even if something seems balanced, would the metagame be better off with or without its inclusion? This generation of OU has a lot of things I could make theoretical arguments for bringing down from Ubers, and I’ve seen people post about a number of them, but specifically focusing on Darkrai here I do think it’s better for OU if Darkrai were to stay banned from the tier.
Darkrai’s issues come from its natural inconsistency and nerfed mechanics, namely Sleep being worse on account of Electric Terrain and the Dark Void nerf, but the same RNG and offensive playstyle that hold Darkrai back happen to be the same things that tend to break it in earlier generations. This feels more like a situation where the theoretically balanced Pokémon would still end up being incredibly restrictive in the team builder, warping the metagame around itself in such a way that forces higher usage rates of its offensive and defensive checks and destabilizing the metagame from its natural answers to the dominant hyper-offensive focus.
Darkrai might be lacking in some areas, but it’s still packing really strong Special Attack and Speed for the tier, wielding Nasty Plot to great success as a potential win condition while having the flexibility to swap over to Choice Specs/Scarf if the hypothetical Darkrai player wants to take advantage of select matchups. The combination of Dark STAB and the coverage it does get, namely Focus
