Metagame SM RU - RU Alpha Discussion - Month 2

What are you looking forward to in Sun/Moon?


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EonX

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Agreeing with Arikado on that one. I mean, yeah, there's some obviously broken stuff down here right now, but there's still room to explore. And that provides me a nice segway of sorts. I've seen everyone mention Scolipass, Drizzle, straight HO, but there's also another key weather setter that nobody is paying attention to:



Yes, standard Ninetales is still down here in RU Alpha despite its alolan form being a pretty solid upgrade. That being said, full Sun teams are much easier to pull off than full Hail teams due to the higher amount of abusers that the tier has (Chlorophyll Venusaur, Entei, Darmanitan, etc.) and it even has the best hazard remover in terms of defensive synergy in Donphan. So why is it harder to pull off than Rain and Scolipass teams? Pretty simple. The playstyle is centered around a Pokemon that is not nearly as useful outside of its playstyle as Politoed and Scolipede. Politoed has a solid defensive typing and decent overall bulk and Scolipede has Speed Boost. Of course Speed Boost is great on an offensive Pokemon. That being said, Ninetales is still useful in its own right; capable of running Toxic to ruin the fat Water-types that keep the powerful Fire-types from doing work. Here's a preliminary set I've been working with so far:

Heat Bullet (Ninetales) (F) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 68 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Flamethrower
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam


So this is the Ninetales set I've been working with. I had to go in the way back machine and look up some old PO teams from Gen 5 to figure out what EVs I ran on Ninetales and just went from there. Toxic is the key move as it lets Ninetales wear down the fat Water-types wanting to switch into it and it also can catch other neat stuff like Diancie and Politoed. Flamethrower is a STAB move that's reliable and packs a decent enough punch to KO what it's supposed to. Sunny Day seems super odd on a Pokemon with Drought, but there's a couple of reasons behind this. First and foremost, it allows Ninetales to steal insane amounts of momentum against Drizzle teams as Politoed switches in, maintaining the Sun and forcing it back out. The other is when Ninetales is forced to come in on a bulky Grass-type near the end of Drought, thus allowing her to still set Sun. Solar Beam is the last move and is generally best saved until the target of the move (Politoed, Swampert, Milotic, etc.) has been worn down enough by Toxic to be in KO range. When pulled off correctly, it's an absolute game changer against Rain teams as Ninetales can catch a low HP Politoed trying to set rain, only to have Ninetales set Sunny Day and KO it the following turn with Solar Beam. As far as the EVs go, they look strange but are rather simple. 248 HP EVs is a must as Drought teams need Ninetales to survive as long as she can to maintain favorable conditions. 192 Speed EVs + a Timid nature is enough to keep Ninetales in front of Jolly Bruxish as she can survive even a +2 LO Aqua Jet in the sun and still OHKO back with Solar Beam. This also includes Jolly Lucario (if that becomes a thing) as it is incapable of OHKOing with +2 Extreme Speed. The rest is thrown into Special Attack to give Ninetales a little bit more power behind its offensive moves, but max Speed is an option if outspeeding the likes of Sigilyph, Drapion, and Haxorus is important, though it should be noted that Ninetales generally will not fare well against Drapion and Haxorus without Will-O-Wisp anyway.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankrualpha-511748743 - a decent-ish battle against Arikado showcasing Drought. We both kind of screw up some but it still does a decent job of showing how difficult it can be to handle the likes of Entei and Venusaur in sunlight. Also, Talonflame is cute. Can't wait to try building around it.
 

MrAldo

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Son, just wing it on this one. All Alpha tiers are far from ideal so everyone is just gonna be testing new toys and draw conclusions from there, some of the mons that were absurd past gen could be perfectly balanced this gen based on the increase of power creep and the need to cover some defensive and offensive bases more effectively.

I guess it is matter of point of view, so just try to enjoy it. Im certainly enjoying watching some games with broken threats vs broken threats!
 

ManOfMany

Formerly Many
is a Tiering Contributor
I'm actually enjoying this tier a lot. There are a lot of super powerful mons but I've found that a lot of the "broken" threats that dropped check other broken threats. For example, Celebi is a great check to Suicune, Snorlax checks pretty much every special attacker, Slowbro checks almost all physical attackers....Doesn't mean I think they should stay but the metagame isn't as unbalanced as I thought it would be so far.

Here's a team I peaked ladder with (although i only had to play 7 matches lol):

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Earth Power

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 80 HP / 220 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave
- Slack Off

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Absol-Mega @ Absolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Tail
- Swords Dance
 
Hey guys, I have been a non-entity for a long time (basically skipped gen 6 competitive altogether), but I wanted to get back into this. So far it looks to be a very fun alpha with a lot of huge threats. I was wondering what a good stop to Scolipede-pass would be. I love the thing but it's so frustrating to deal with, besides Haze. I was wondering if there were any more ideas for more solid stops to it.

That being said, I love using Scolipede because I'm a hypocrite and one cool 'mon I have been theorizing about, but not using, as a receiver of Scoli-pass is Kommo-o. It seems to lack the speed, but is bulky and relatively strong so it has its other bases pretty much covered. Sky Uppercut kind of sucks, but it still has a cool typing. I haven't gone into much set details or EVs, but I was thinking it would be a cool 'mon to use?
 
Hey guys, I have been a non-entity for a long time (basically skipped gen 6 competitive altogether), but I wanted to get back into this. So far it looks to be a very fun alpha with a lot of huge threats. I was wondering what a good stop to Scolipede-pass would be. I love the thing but it's so frustrating to deal with, besides Haze. I was wondering if there were any more ideas for more solid stops to it.

That being said, I love using Scolipede because I'm a hypocrite and one cool 'mon I have been theorizing about, but not using, as a receiver of Scoli-pass is Kommo-o. It seems to lack the speed, but is bulky and relatively strong so it has its other bases pretty much covered. Sky Uppercut kind of sucks, but it still has a cool typing. I haven't gone into much set details or EVs, but I was thinking it would be a cool 'mon to use?
Scolipede pass is banned because UU just banned Baton Pass earlier today. As long as we're in alpha, we have to follow UU bans. Once we're in beta, we can vote to break transitivity with UU (unban Baton Pass) or not (keep Baton Pass banned).
 
Scolipede pass is banned because UU just banned Baton Pass earlier today. As long as we're in alpha, we have to follow UU bans. Once we're in beta, we can vote to break transitivity with UU (unban Baton Pass) or not (keep Baton Pass banned).
Oops I must have missed that. Thanks!
 
I'm actually enjoying this tier a lot. There are a lot of super powerful mons but I've found that a lot of the "broken" threats that dropped check other broken threats. For example, Celebi is a great check to Suicune, Snorlax checks pretty much every special attacker, Slowbro checks almost all physical attackers....Doesn't mean I think they should stay but the metagame isn't as unbalanced as I thought it would be so far.

Here's a team I peaked ladder with (although i only had to play 7 matches lol):

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Earth Power

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 80 HP / 220 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave
- Slack Off

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Absol-Mega @ Absolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Tail
- Swords Dance
Lol this is literally just oras uu, but keep up the work !
 

aVocado

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Fun nasty little core I stumbled upon while playing with a joke team that includes 4 banded mons and 2 scarfers:



Haxorus @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Dragon Claw


Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge


It's very flexible. These two look like they go so well with each other, they both share pretty much exactly the same counters. I ran band on both of them cuz it's a joke team but DD/SD Hax and Scarf Moxie Hera also work well together in theory. Also DD Hax and Band Hera.. whatever you want honestly.

Heracross can't /really/ hit fairies that well but it does a decent chunk with knock off while getting rid of its item which should just pave the way for Haxorus alone w/ that. You can use Stone Edge on Hera to hit Togekiss hard and Florges for some neutral damage, or EQ to hit both doublade and florges consistently for good damage.

Some more sets I wanna try out (I mostly tried these but not in too many games):


Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Flare Blitz
- Roost


Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe <---- a bulkier spread can be used if u wanna do that
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Leaf Storm
- Earth Power / Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- Recover


Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Poison Jab

Mienshao looks like it'll be really fucking annoying for offense. HJK with Reckless is super fucking strong. Good thing we have good guy crobat to check it!! Celebi is amazing because it's an auto-switch in to any bulky water pretty much, and it can just do so much. Be strong with Psychic/Leaf Storm, nasty plot, pivot with u-turn, set SR, etc.. just not all at once ofc.

Talonflame is gonna be interesting for sure. I'm not sure how good he is yet, he's probably solid but being outshadowed by other bigger threats right now. I tried the BU set with a weird EV spread (that I posted a while back) and it's generally worked well. I found myself able to get a few boosts and sweep with it. Only gripe is I can't run all 3 of Taunt, WoW, and Roost which kinda sucks.. but if your aim is more to break stall then taunt should be your option, otherwise WoW to cripple some switch ins.

SD itemless acro w/ Gale Wings is interesting too. Still trying it out. Choice Band (bb/flare blitz/u-turn/tailwind) should be pretty good too, has slight competition from crobat in that regard though.
 
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EonX

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+


So, uh, remember the OG dragonfly for RU (sorry Flygon) and how it was ridiculously hard to stop? Well, not a lot has changed for it in Sun and Moon. Specs Yanmega still hits insanely hard and doesn't completely fall flat on its face against offensive teams. It can easily come in after something like Heracross, Nidoking, or even Bruxish pick up KOs and proceed to throw out a Bug Buzz that will likely get a KO in return. Of course, Yanmega can carve up balance squads thanks to the Tinted Lens boost removing resistances from its STAB moves. While Speed Boost sets are probably still better due to the offensive state of the meta right now, don't sleep on Tinted Lens Specs sets. Sure it doesn't perform as well against offense, but once defensive cores start cropping up, it'll be a major force and still is pretty solid right now. As for Lucario, I'm sure everyone knew that this would be a major force if it happened to drop down. However, while most people have been using the SD set, I've been working with a Nasty Plot set to clean up what Yanmega leaves behind. Thankfully, most Pokemon that can stop Specs Yanmega is pretty passive in nature and is scared of Lucario. Once Lucario is boosted up, it outright maims bulky offense teams and has Vacuum Wave to nail key offensive threats, such as Sharpedo, opposing Lucario, and Crawdaunt. Get these two with something like Scarf Mienshao or Scarf Gardevoir, and its a very formidable offensive core.

Yanmega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- U-turn
- Giga Drain

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest or Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Vacuum Wave / Dark Pulse


Only choices are with Lucario. Vacuum Wave makes it better against offense (really important right now) while Dark Pulse can remove unsuspecting Ghost- and Psychic-types, which could help a potential Scarf Mienshao or something similar. I've been using Modest just to kind of test it out, but Timid is probably overall better considering how offensive the meta is right now.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankrualpha-512371106 - this does a pretty good job of showing what NP Lucario is able to do against slower teams that have 1-2 faster mons than it. Once I get it set up, it just picks up multiple kills before my opponent finally realizes what his / her only answer is.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankrualpha-512425202 - This replay does a better job of showing the utility of Vacuum Wave. Even though Lucario has no chance to ever set up on anything, the utility of Vacuum Wave allows it to pick off key threats, particularly my opponent's own Lucario.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankrualpha-512465136 - A complete sweep as I'm able to catch my opponent outside of Trick Room and set up to win

Probably not the best replays, and I don't think Specs Yanmega gets a chance to do much of anything due to the matchups, but NP Lucario is a serious monster in its own right, even though SD is probably overall better.
 
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe <---- a bulkier spread can be used if u wanna do that
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Leaf Storm
- Earth Power / Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- Recover
I've been running life orb 3 attacks celebi a lot and it's really good. One thing I would try is dazzling gleam > psychic though, you still hit fighting types hard enough and it stops all the dragons in the tier. You lose out against dragalge and roserade but I think it's a worthy option. Speaking of rose, I'd also like to know why you're running modest, I know modest leaf storm hits like a truck and all but there's roserade, yanmega, haxorus, moltres, and lucario (and electivire I guess) who all outspeed you without a positive nature, as well as ties with other max speed celebi and more importantly flygon. Finally, I personally prefer rest > recover since you're switching out a lot anyway with leaf storm but I know that one's much more personal preference.

Also just want to say agility lucario is really underrated right now, since lucario doesn't really need atk boosts to clean up HO teams (hint: every team right now is HO). Having an extra coverage slot for iron tail (or ice punch if you hate gligar like me) is nice and it's good against teams that rely on something like aero or scarf chandy to tank an espeed and revenge. It would be even better if we had coba but grumble grumble.

Also stop using suicide lead lycanrock if you don't have a really good answer to lucario in the back. I've swords danced to +3 on too many lycanrocks whose best option against me is to stone edge my quad resist for 20%.
 
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Feliburn

Trance
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Kommo-o @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Sky Uppercut
- Poison Jab

Been using a team around DD Kommo-o and it has been doing quite good (topped the ladder w/ it), thanks to soundproof you literally get a free set up versus specs Swellow if it decides to click Boomburst. Using Fightium Z cause Sky Uppercut is a really underwhelming fighting STAB, tho I guess you could use Dragonium Z too cause the same goes for Dragon Claw lol. Regardless, Kommo-o is naturally super bulky , which makes it way easier to a Dragon Dance, it also has a really high attack stat so it does damage with a boost, don't let the underwhelming STABs tell you otherwise. A lot of ppl have asked me why I'm using it over Flygon or Haxorus, I guess it's cause it has an easier time getting a DD up than the other two cause of the bulk and also because of both Soundproof and Bulletproof, might be new mon syndrome too but w/e, been enjoying this mon a lot.

Other dudes have been telling me specs Kommo-o is really fun to use too so I'll have to give it a shot, this mon is really epic I love it.
 

Feen

Formerly Arifeen
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Spikes is insanely good atm, there are a couple of hazard removers in Crobat, Donphan, Togekiss, Gligar but all of them are highly pressured by the sheer amount of threats in the tier. I've tried Klefki + Milotic + Minior where Milotic acts as a Defog deterrent due to Competitive. Another cool thing I tried is a Spikes HO team with Frosslass + Mega Absol + Metagross with Normalium Explosion. Needless to say, you can pair Spikes with pretty much any offensive threat and it'd most likely end up as a good team.

Rain teams are just plain broken, lol. I used Politoed + Ludicolo + Kabutops alongside Klefki and Specs Tornadus. Rain does have some checks I guess, Porygon2 is a pretty solid Rain check if it spams Twave and Discharge. I also faced some randoms using Ninetales for no reason to ct my rain team -_-

There's still like a billion threats, and building a balance team to check all of them is next to impossible. A team of Florges + Suicune + Cresselia won't go too far without a hazard remover, and we all know how hard it is to remove hazards atm. Hopefully next month we'll see some threats rising so hazard removers become relevant. Spam mindless offense while it still lasts!
 
The fact that literally every hazard remover bar Komala loses to Froslass 1v1 is a huge testament to her effectiveness. If Froslass runs Ice Beam and SpA investment she can OHKO all of the aforementioned hazard removers with the exception of Togekiss (high SpD, and Ice Beam 2HKOes anyway while Togekiss fails to do so in return; Thunder Wave is also prevented with Taunt) and Sturdy Donphan. Crobat does not KO with Brave Bird, especially with Focus Sash up, and if it is running Taunt, Froslass can just KO with Ice Beam after BB recoil.

I'm also really liking some of the former ORAS UU additions to RU Alpha such as Heliolisk. Heliolisk makes for an excellent Milotic and other Water-type switch-in due to its Dry Skin ability. With its great speed tier and highly spammable dual STAB moves in Volt Switch/Thunderbolt and Hyper Voice, it can easily punch holes in any offensively oriented team. It even gets moves like Signal Beam for Celebi and Surf (O.o) for Ground-types. A really great pick in general, especially on VoltTurn offense.


Heliolisk @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hyper Voice
- Surf / Signal Beam
- Thunderbolt
 

playerW17

the shackles known as possibilities
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Although the metagame as of now is extremely offensive, drops to RU such as Suicune, Florges and Snorlax make defensive teams possible as well, although covering the insane amounts of threats present in the tier at the moment is a struggle, as well as lack of good answers to hazard stack in general. Despite this, after building a stall team, I was able to reach the top of the RU Alpha Ladder, which shows that this playstyle does have some merit, even if its mostly overshadowed by HO spam.





Sweet Devil (Snorlax) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse

World Is Mine (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Roar

Senbonzakura (Registeel) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave

Look This Way (Chesnaught) @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Drain Punch
- Synthesis
- Wood Hammer

Rolling Girl (Florges) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Synthesis
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy

Dream of a Dream (Gligar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Toxic


Snorlax is incredibly specially fat and a catch all check to basically every special attacker in the tier, which works wonders for role compression. Sleep Talk + Curse provides a strong wincon and Body Slam fishes for paralysis on things that would eat infinite amounts of Returns (e.g Fighting/Steel types). Run EQ if you want to not lose to Chandelure and hit Doublade, although the lack of Sleep Talk makes Snorlax easy to abuse.

Suicune is an incredibly strong mon in this tier similarly to how it was in Oras UU, with its ability to eat most physical hits with excellent bulk and typing, as well as clutch out games as a second bulky wincon. Roar is my "counter" to fat setup mons like Slowbro/Snorlax/other Suicune, while CM boosts past the previous threats and is a wincon to make Suicune less passive. Sleep Talk > CM is possible to help reduce Suicune's deadweightedness during sleep, but I prefer the secondary wincon. Speed to creep other Cune is a good idea (not revealing my spread though).

Registeel is...yet another compression check. Its also my Bruxish "switchin", Alakazam/Swellow check, and generally just checks anything without supereffective coverage against it. It provides Stealth Rock to punish switchins, Seismic Toss for consistent damage and Toxic to wear down switchins. The last move doesnt really matter, but I'm running Thunder Wave to fish for hax on stuff that can't be Toxic'd. Iron Head to hit Togekiss harder or Z-Psych Up for recovery and Trick immunity works too.

Chesnaught is basically just here for Spikes to pressure switches and a Crawdaunt counter. I guess it also beats stuff like Kabutops and is also very physically bulky as a catch-all check. Wood Hammer because I like not being walled by fat Waters like Swampert/Jellicent/Suicune and Drain Punch to hit steels like Lucario and provide reliable anti-Dark STAB without causing recoil.

Florges is the obligatory Fairy type cleric and wish passer. Its also my answer to most Dragons and Fighting types (e.g DD Flygon, DD Haxorus, Heracross, Machamp) although in practice a lot of them carry anti-Fairy coverage. Its also a counter to Sableye. Aromatisse works here for a bit of extra physical bulk and Taunt/Encore immunity, but I prefer Florges' extra SpD.


Gligar is one of the only hazard removers that doesnt suck. It's also the Lucario "counter", ground immunity, electric immunity, and secondary physical wall. Its fat enough to wall basically every physical attacker lacking Ice coverage, although Knock Off annoys it. Toxic wears fat grounds/waters/fliers down, but filler like U-Turn / Knock Off works here.

Common Threats: SubCM Chandelure 6-0's due to no Earthquake on Snorlax, Haxorus/Specs Kommo have no guaranteed switchins, Spikes are broken and hard to remove, NP Luke / Ice Punch SD kill the entire team unless dodges happen, Heal Bell NP Togekiss can blast past the team with enough flinches on Registeel. Jellicent walls both my wincons, but is pretty easily Toxic'd or blown back with Wood Hammer.

Despite the extensive threat list in theory, in practice the team still works pretty well in the RU alpha ladder.
 


Porygon2 @ Normalium Z
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Conversion
- Ice Beam
- Recover

P2 is a reliable wincon, I tested it in ladd and some tournament it did well its job. Its speed is pretty low (modest ties with Flygon at +1) imo Max Speed Timid seems to be the best option for the Electric Duck one, you can outspeed the 110 BS and it still reaches 618 in SpA in the best scenario with a natural Eviolite boost.
It did well mainly against BO and balanced teams in general. I took advantage that most people doesn't anticipate this set, things like Whimsicott still annoying and prevents you to set up and counters like Lanturn, Togedemaru (w toxik ofc) and Swampert can phaze you and Quag doesn't care about all your boost, great wall Regi still annoying.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankrualpha-512181080 I don't think about save some replays but this one shows you the perfect Match Up for P2 sweep.


Golisopod @ Insect Plate/Sitrus Berry
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leech Life
- Liquidation
- First Impression

I like this mon so much. Yes, its ability is...weird. I mean in some cases it can be nice to gain momentum with its strong priority move but when it is at +2 and there is no Emergency because it can finish, it even leaves when its life reaches below half.
So why do I play SD on this ? Because at +2 it becomes hard to take his STAB in this tier except if your name is Toxikroak. You can pressure bulky water with SD, faster Pokémon are frailer in general and are afraid of First Impression. Leech Life permits you to regain some HP to stay away from Emergency Exit.
Sucker Punch or Aqua Jet to have more priority against offense are nice too, Sitrus Berry instead of Insect Plate permits you to gain more staying power and mainly OHKO support Crobat at +2 if you are full (it does 63% max with Brave Bird).
Some speed to outspeed the 50BS.


Minior-Meteor @ White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Substitute
- Shell Smash
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake

A alternative to Minior set, the main flaw it can really touch Rotom Heat without Stone Edge. But Substitute allows you to anticipate the Scarf Switch-in (then reach the Shields Down range, Shell Smash and outspeed) that is the main answer to a Shell Smash Minior and you can avoid a Sucker Punch which is the another answer to a Shell Smash Minior (w Bronzong, Quag, Whimsicott). You can sub on Gligar which can pivot and you are protect from any priority move behind a sub for example.
 

aVocado

@ Everstone
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
A potentially slept on threat everyone's forgetting about:


Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Haven't used it yet but in a super hyper aggressive mindless offense tier that is RU alpha it sounds pretty damn good.
 

eren

je suis d'ailleurs
hy, im nice so i employed eonx n mazary to help (minimally -_-) me throw this role compendium together for you all's pleasure.
Megas:



Hazards:

Rockers:
Offensive:

Defensive:


Spikes:
Offensive:

Defensive:



Toxic Spikes:
Offensive:

Defensive:


Sticky Web:
Offensive:

Defensive:


Hazard Removal / Prevention:

Defog:

Offensive:

Defensive:


Rapid Spin:
Offensive:

Defensive:


Magic Bounce:


Boosters:

Swords Dance:
(all formes)


Nasty Plot:


Dragon Dance:


Calm Mind:


Other:
(shell smash)
(shell smash)
(shell smash)
(shell smash)
(curse)
(curse)
(bulk up)
(bulk up)
(speed boost)
(speed boost)
(z-celebrate)
(shift gear)
(belly drum)
(belly drum)
(belly drum)
(belly drum)
(quiver dance)
(dancer)
(quiver dance)
(hone claws)

Clerics:

Heal Bell / Aromatherapy:



Wish:


Healing Wish:
 
Last edited:

Wanka

THUNDERCLAP
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Looking at what mons the alpha meta was going to have, it looked like a lot of fun so I thought I'd give it a try. I've only made one team and it's been doing p well so far so I thought I'd share it.

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Nasty Plot
- Roost

Metagross @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Tri Attack

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge

Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball




So I saw toge was allowed so that was the first mon I wanted to build around. It's a speedy stall breaker set that has a fair amount of bulk. Paired with zam, stall teams are pretty easy to break down, which is really nice and can nab some free wins on the ladder. Being able to win games at team preview and the defensive utility it provides is really nice to have.

I generally only like building with 2 mon backbones and P2 and roar cune make a pretty good one. P2 is just a nice blanket check to a plethora of mons and roar cune checks a lot of physical attacks and provides phazing support at the same time and can spread burns around. The core itself can be overwhelmed at times, but it does a good enough job to keep me in battles long enough to the point where I can clean with toge, shao, or zam.

Life orb zam sets are really scary for opponents to go up against. As I said, It really bolsters the stall matchup and can help break down anything that checks togekiss. Metagross sets pebbles and is a quick check to togekiss. I started out running shuca since I saw that the nidos were allowed, but switched to colbur since I noticed a fuck ton of dark mons running around. Celebi's seem to be running EP so you could still use shuca for that since it's annoying for me to face, but either one is useful.

Scarf shao gives me speed control and a form of momentum. Works well as a cleaner and is complimented by zam's ability to hole punch opponents teams.

1DIABOLIC142577.2%1732 ± 54--

in action:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankrualpha-511838756

EDIT: fixed some evs that got messed up.
 
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EonX

One and Only
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
The main things we forgot that I can see on that list is Celebi as a Healing Wish user (it does get the move) and the lack of a wallbreaker section. Aside from that, hopefully that list helps a little bit as we try to make an attempt to build for this tier.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankrualpha-512631163 - so I was on Skype call with a friend last night while I was giving him an intro to the tier and we ended up facing playerW17 on the ladder a couple of times. The first one was where I was testing Dragalge (and I realized how bad it was to not have Sludge Wave LOL) and the 2nd time (seen in the replay) kind of showcases how potent NP Lucario is against that team (as he acknowledged in his post about the team) For those wondering why I use Focus Blast over Aura Sphere, I'll provide calcs at the end of this. I also finally got a battle to show with Specs Yanmega actually doing something on this team LOL. But in all seriousness, that stall team is very impressive considering the hyper aggressive state of the tier right now and I'm glad I got to face it first hand before the team got posted here. And the answer to how Lucario can hit that many Focus Blasts? He's the Aura Master. He sees where you'll be. And now, here's those Focus Blast vs. Aura Sphere calcs:

Vs Suicune
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 413-487 (102.2 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 274-325 (67.8 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 106-126 (37.7 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. That chip damage is no bueno

Vs AV Escavalier
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 298-352 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 199-235 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Drill Run obviously OHKOes if it carries the move

Vs AV Metagross
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 337-398 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 226-266 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Do I really need to calc EQ? LOL


So yeah, Focus Blast helps a fair bit against fatter teams, but you can obviously use Aura Sphere if you trust your wallbreakers to weaken these kinds of Pokemon enough for Lucario to sweep later
 
Roserade @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 140 HP / 208 SpA / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb / Leaf Storm
- Spikes
- Sleep Powder
- Dazzling Gleam


While it might seem strange to equip a scarf on a mon with only 2 attacking moves, Roserade can use it well. It's capable of functioning as a revenge killer, sleeper and Spiker all in one. The EVs allow it to outpace threats like Swellow, Mienshao, Yanmega and MAbsol and OHKO them with Dazzling Gleam or Sludge Bomb. You can run Leaf Storm to net extra KOs on stuff like Zam, Suicune and Lisk but Bomb is generally better, netting nice KOs like Togekiss.

Spikes are really nice and it's pretty easy for Rose to get all three layers up.

Fast sleep is also really great and can let setup sweepers thrive or let Rose set up Spikes later.

Might add in calcs in a bit.
 
Last edited:

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Yeah... Scolipede is really whack in this tier atm.

545.gif


Scolipede @ Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

With the ban with Baton Pass to OU - you would think this thing would be more manageable here. Nope - alongside the assistance of Trickscarf mons like Rotom, you can find plenty of opportunities to set up. Having +2 attack and +1 Speed in the space of one turn means that not a lot can switch into it alongside having max neutral coverage (bar Sheninja, which dies to SR anyway). Some calcs:
  • +2 252+ Atk Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 262-309 (74.6 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • +2 252+ Atk Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Araquanid: 256-303 (75.2 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • +2 252+ Atk Scolipede Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 188-222 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • +2 252+ Atk Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 339-400 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • +2 252+ Atk Scolipede Aqua Tail vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 284-336 (70.4 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • +2 252+ Atk Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 301-355 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +2 252+ Atk Scolipede Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 320-378 (98.7 - 116.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • +2 252+ Atk Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dhelmise: 238-282 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And so on and so forth...

Lum Berry helps me with the off burn, but on ladder I haven't really come across much that inflicts status that's really fatal for Scolipede otherwise. I'm thinking about changing that for Muscle Band / Life Orb / Protective Pads... hell, Poisonium Z might be possible on this set (which i've tested on the 1v1 ladder before).

Also here's a rather unconventional Slurpuff set I've been experimenting with, based off the Firium Z Garchomp sets in OU that baits out Skarm/Tapu Bulu/the odd fat Ice type etc.. Might want to change Draining Kiss for Dazzling Gleam, idk.

685.gif


Slurpuff @ Firium Z
Ability: Sweet Veil
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Flamethrower
- Surf
- Aromatherapy
 
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