Resource SM ZU Viability Rankings (VR Changes #375)

[Ampha]

So some may think this is controversial or not but
Simisear to A-
Simisear has been a thing i've been catching up some weeks before LA but LA made my perfect chance for this,simisears has a fantastic weapon on both NP and coverage moves,Z Firium, Fightium are also incredible in that also and many teams normally can be exploited by this, I've also personally run HP electric to bop swannas and some mareanies on switch-in,to finish of it gets a plethora of good scenarios to +2 and dish out damage
Bello to B+
Underrated af breaker,Bello is another guy which is amazing rn,strenght sap is really annoying for a lot of things and helps it on its setup way, which is kinda annoying to stop once on +1/2 bc of this

 

[czim]

Ok so we got Silvally-spook and i wanted to discuss how does it affect the viability of some of our other Silvally forms.

Silvally-Normal - Better - I'd suggest a rise to A-
This got much better, being a Ghost-immunity that can usually check Silvally-Ghost's SD set and doesnt fear anything but Toxic from Special Defogger sets is very good rn. It also usually runs Shadow Claw/Crunch in physical sets to get past Bronzor and Gourgeist-XL, so it can also hit it super effectively. Also the fact that we have a good offensive Ghost type in the metagame make the aforementioned Gourgeist-XL and Bronzor a lot more pressured. I'd also like to notably mention the Z-Heal Block set, which can also run Shadow Ball and bop Silv-Ghost.

Silvally-Rock - Useless - Unranked imo too, I agree with Union
This is now the worst of all Silvally forms since it lost its only niche of being a Silvally form with a normal resist, SD sets are usually outclassed by Lycanroc since it has Ground coverage, a strong Z-move and access to Sucker Punch, and mixed/special sets are better used by other forms since Rock is a bad defensive typing in a whole and it lacks a good special STAB move.

Silvally-Fire - Worse - C- or UU
With Roselia leaving the tier and Silvally-Ghost having STAB Shadow Ball to hit Bronzor, arguably using special sets better than Silvally-Fire in a whole, this mon lost one of its only niches of being able to pressure defensive cores formed with these 2 mons. The SD set isnt much better due to lack of coverage and being a SR weak Silvally form isn't very good so it doesnt succeed as a Defogger. Its only niche left is being the best Silvally form to check Abomasnow atm, but that isn't much to justify its use except in teams severely weak to Aboma.

Silvally-Dark - Mixed bag - Not sure on this one
This seems at first glance like a good check to Silv-Ghost, but since the SD set is the most common one atm it doesnt like to eat a +2 U-turn and goes into 50/50s of clicking Pursuit or Multi-Attack vs it bc it can potentially lose to Double-Edge otherwise, so it will most likely at better be a trade between both Silv-forms. It can somewhat reliably Trap Special sets though, so we need to see which set will become more common in the end for an input on Silv-Dark.

Silvally-Fighting - A bit worse - I'd move it to B+ personally
Silvally-Ghost just does its job better as a SD attacker, and it usually doesnt run coverage like Shadow Claw or Crunch in defogger sets since it doesnt do much to Gourgeist, so defogger sets will likely have a 4MSS rn with Toxic, Multi-Attack, Ice Beam, Defog, Crunch, U-turn/Pshot, otherwise this mon will struggle to actually do some consistent damage to Silv-Ghost.

Silvally-Ice - A bit worse (not like it was ever good JdRDMS ) - UU
Silvally-Ice really faces competition from Silvally-Ghost as a SD attacker since it can also pressure Gourgeist-XL, and special sets have never been that great due to Silv-Fire/Elec/Water usually overperforming it. So this seems like another one kinda hard to justify in any team atm unless you really wanna OHKO altaria. But like Silv-Fire, being a SR weak Silvally-Form has never really been great overall, especially for Silv-Icer which lacks useful resists and is even easier to chip than its Fire counterpart.

Those are my thoughts about it atm, I think Silvally-Water, Dragon, Ground and Poison's viability remaing unchanged at least so far, since they do different things than Silv-Ghost. Any feedback is welcome :)

I know replying to yourself isnt actually amazing but I'd like to address one of my early nominations in the Silv-Ghost meta and completely change it.

Silv-Fighting - this thing should actually rise instead of drop, I'm nominating it back to A. Shiftry's dominance created a need for Dark-resists in the metagame and this is actually the most reliable one around. The pressure Shiftry puts on bulky cores basically forces you to run this guy in fatter teams. It also benefits a lot from Shiftry's pressure on Bronzor, making it deal better with common rockers and having a reliable mon to U-turn into if Bronzor comes in.

Just so this isnt completely me talking to myself, here's a new nomination.

Monferno - B to B+/A- - with the drop of Altaria, Swanna, Floatzel, Gourgeist-XL and now Silvally-Ghost, Monferno's choiced and set-up sets took a huge blow and were becoming less and less common, but now, in all its ORAS PU glory, Bulky Monferno is back to deal with Shiftry's dominance and set rocks vs the common new popular hazard removers in Komala and Shiftry. It can also still bluff its other sets to potentially force stuff out and set rocks more reliably. Also, having access to a plethora of useful moves such as Taunt, U-turn and Slack Off really set it apart from other rockers and created a new (not so new :)) and very effective niche for the monkey in the metagame.

 

[SBPC]

I'd like to nominate Mawile for B+ ranking.

Mawile is currently highly effective in this meta as a good teammate to a lot of offensive silvally forms (e.g. Dragonvally) and is able to hard counter the prominent shiftry by the blessing of it's Steel/Fairy typing. It also has an excellent time against bulkier teams due to its tools in Toxic, Taunt, Pain Split, and Super Fang, with the option of running Seismic Toss as well. It's ability in intimidate also helps it switch in against physical attackers it wants to wall, giving it opportunity to set up stealth rocks.

A reason I am nominating for B+ rather than an A ranking is that it's recovery option in pain split is rather meager, and it faces competition from Monferno, who possesses a bulky slack off set and can KO threats with more ease than Mawile.

 

[BloodAce]

I'd like to nominate Mawile for B+ ranking.

Mawile is currently highly effective in this meta as a good teammate to a lot of offensive silvally forms (e.g. Dragonvally) and is able to hard counter the prominent shiftry by the blessing of it's Steel/Fairy typing. It also has an excellent time against bulkier teams due to its tools in Toxic, Taunt, Pain Split, and Super Fang, with the option of running Seismic Toss as well. It's ability in intimidate also helps it switch in against physical attackers it wants to wall, giving it opportunity to set up stealth rocks.

A reason I am nominating for B+ rather than an A ranking is that it's recovery option in pain split is rather meager, and it faces competition from Monferno, who possesses a bulky slack off set and can KO threats with more ease than Mawile.

Mawile is a pretty solid counter to Swords Dance Shiftry but Mixed LO sets, one of if not the most potent Shiftry set rn, can deal around 50% to Mawile with Leaf Storm since Mawile has pretty abysmal Special bulk. A lack of reliable recovery and a tendency to get worn down also means that Mawile may struggle to check Shiftry multiple times during a match. Special Shiftry sets are able to use Nasty Plot on the switch and flat out OHKO Mawile with either LO boosted Leaf Storm or Z-Dark Pulse. These factors leave Mawile a less effective Shiftry check in practice than it is in theory.

4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mawile: 134-159 (44 - 52.3%) -- 14.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mawile: 343-406 (112.8 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Shiftry Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mawile: 326-384 (107.2 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

Swanna to A+ to S

The amount of viable Grass, Bug, and Rock types in the tier absolutely justifies the threatening power of a good Water/Flying STAB user. In fact, the only Pokemon in the entire viability ranking that resits this STAB combo is Chinchou, at C- nonetheless. This, with Swanna's variability to be any choice user or a couple Z move uses makes me think that Swanna is a must pick for any offensive team.


Most of the time, the best the opponent can do is switch in to a check to scout the set. Bronzong, Pyuk, and Liki can do a good job to this, and can stop most sets. However, CB has a 46% chance to 2HKO a full health Pyuk after rocks, Z Mirror or Rain Dance can deal with Bronzong and 2HKO, and either the aforementioned sets can 2HKO Liki. Any of these sets can deal with its would be checks, and still have enough HP to dent the team after. Even Liquidation's 20% chance to drop def can be great for spamming against stall, even for the scarf sets.

252 Atk Choice Band Swanna Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Lickilicky: 231-273 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Swanna Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Lickilicky: 219-258 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Swanna Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Bronzor: 160-189 (50.3 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Swanna Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 135-159 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


If it's the scarf sets, Swanna can out speed most of the competition, and doesn't care about the rest. It can happily at the very least 2HKO all scarf users, and out speed and likely 1HKO all the tier's Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, and Rock Polish users of the tier. Vire is easily a very popular scarf, and being to 2HKO with Liquidation means Vire cannot risk getting worn down or taking say a Sucker Punch or it'll outright fail as a speed check to Swanna. The only other fast scarfer that seems to be used is Rapidash, which Swanna resists its Flare Blitz and can even have a scarf Aqua Jet to hit it in a 1v1 to shave off 50% if it's afraid of Wild Charge.


The fact that any set of Swanna has dual STABs to be SE to over 25 of the top mons in the viability ranking, and then can hit all the rest, is insane. It's strong and incredibly unpredictable. It is ridiculous how good Swanna can be to any offensive team, besides maybe screens or TR. While stall may have some answers to many of the sets, a lot of Swanna teammates include either SB or WB grass types. Shiftry is great for dealing with all of Swanna's checks, and Swanna backs it up by threatening Silvally-Fighting and Gourgiest. Even scarf Swanna can have Surf and 2HKO defensive Mawhile, considering Defog and Aqua Jet are just extra and interchangeable moves on that set.


Any offensive core can enjoy having Swanna in it or backing it up. It is always a safe pick, as it can easily deal with the entire meta one way or another. To me, that justifies its place above all other A+ picks.

 

[DurzaOffTopic]

VR Update Time! Explanations can be found in respective forum nominations throughout this thread, as well as in the voting sheets. However, I'll provide explanations for more divisive Pokemon.

RISES

Komala A+ to S
Shiftry A to A+
Silvally-Fighting A- to A
Simisear B+ to A-
Tangela B+ to A-
Mawile B- to B
Jumpluff C+ to B-
Furfrou UU to C-
Gourgiest-Small UU to C-

Komala is as dominant as ever, with its sets from Choice Band to Bulk Up being extremely threatening in the current meta. We felt that the drop to A+ was a bit preemptive as we discussed what the qualifications for an S-rank Pokemon should be, and it will now rise back up to the rank we feel it deserves.

Shiftry has proven itself as a premier threat with its great STAB-moves, priority, and boosting options that allow it to dominate in the current meta. It is able to run both Swords Dance and mixed offensive sets and dissuade revenge killing with a powerful STAB Sucker Punch. Access to Defog furthers its many offensive options and lets it capitalize on the many switches it forces. It's ability to wallbreak and beat Pyukumuku (through its Grass STAB) is comparable to Pinsir, but Sucker Punch gives it a much better matchup versus offensive teams.

Silvally-Fighting's ability to threaten many of the top ranked Pokemon in the tier, such as Komala and Shiftry, pushes it up in the ranks. It's the single best Knock Off absorber in the tier and pivoting and Defog support add to its usefulness.

Simisear uses its great speed and coverage to break through defensive teams with its Nasty Plot sets that set it as one of the best Fire-types in the tier. It is also able to pick from various Z moves, most commonly Firium and FIghtinium, and many coverage options to tailor it to whatever it needs to beat.

Gourgeist-XL's dominance as the physically defensive Grass-type in ZU allows Tangela to revert back to older offensive sets which are near unmatched in terms of role compression. Regenerator and great support moves in Knock Off and Sleep Powder give it a less passive presence than Gourgiest-XL and a great Special Attack stat with a powerful Leaf Storm allows it to pressure switch ins and keep up momentum.

Kay has discovered this Pokemon's niche as an extremely bulky setup sweeper and win condition on stall teams. Good setup options and natural speed allow it to beat many of the things that commonly plagued bulkier teams.

Gourgeist-Small's speed tier allow it to perform differently and have better matchups versus things like Regigigas. It is bulkier when invested than Gourgiest-Large when it needs to hit certain speed benchmarks that it is able to reach as a result of its naturally higher base speed.

DROPS

Bronzor A+ to A
Chatot A- to B+
Fraxure B to B-
Masquerain B- to C+
Smeargle B- to C+
Chimecho C+ to C
Natu C+ to C
Ampharos C to C-
Silvally-Ice C- to UU
Illumise UU to UR
Krokorok UU to UR
Onix UU to UR
Seaking UU to UR
Gourgeist-Large UU to UR

and

reference czim's excellent nominations here

Many of these Pokemon which have dropped are just not as good in the current meta and are long overdue for a drop.

I'd like to hear some discussion on many of the Pokemon which might be due for a drop in the B ranks, some that come to mind might be Metang, Servine, Gabite, Quilladin, and others.

 

[JdRDMS]

Misdreavus: B- -> C+
This is probably going to be a bit controversial, but I honestly think that Misdreavus isn't worthy of B-. 5gen explained that it's B- because it can do a lot of things that Silvally-Ghost can't do, such as Will-o-Wisp and Taunt, but honestly, I don't think that's enough to keep it this high. Don't get me wrong, those are nice and all, but we have better options for both. For Taunt, we have Floatzel and Vigoroth (both of which also have decent breaking power on top of this), and for Will-o-Wisp, we have Gourgeist-Super, who is a much better defensive Ghost-type in general. In addition to that, some meta trends have been mean to it as well, mainly the rise of Shiftry. Even when burned, Knock Off from Life Orb Shiftry still does more than 50% to Misdreavus, and Hex against burned Shiftry does no more than 33.9%. Misdreavus has even been dropping off in usage. Look at our usage stats, all the way back to our first set.

Usage

| 21 | Misdreavus | 6.43124% | (2018-05)
| 30 | Misdreavus | 4.43213% | (2018-06)
| 29 | Misdreavus | 5.67487% | (2018-07)
| 30 | Misdreavus | 6.21552% | (2018-08)
| 74 | Misdreavus | 2.25507% | (2018-09)
| 114 | Misdreavus | 1.03433% | (2018-10)
| 87 | Misdreavus | 2.06003% | (2018-11)
| 111 | Misdreavus | 1.39442% | (2018-12)
| 125 | Misdreavus | 0.79014% | (2019-01)

As you can see, last month was the lowest it's ever been in the usage stats. Anyway, while it's utility is nice, I think C+ is a more appropriate rank, but again, this is probably going to be controversial.

Gumshoos: C -> C-/D
The sample set is Choice Band. So Gumshoos is a Choice Band Normal-type. Gee, where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, Komala. Gumshoos is completely outclassed by it. Komala is stronger, faster, and has better special bulk. We also have Toucannon too, which isn't Choice Band to be fair, but it is still a Normal-type wallbreaker, and it's stronger and faster than Gumshoos as well. That's really my point here, it's too outclassed. Stakeout does give it some form of a niche, enough to keep it ranked, but not enough for C imo.

Metang: B -> Lower: Agree (Maybe B- or C+)
I know that Bronzor just fell to A, but it's still very viable, and Metang is still outclassed by it. It can run offensive moves, but it's surprisingly weak, and anything else it wants to do is done better by Bronzor. Combine that with Ghostvally coming into the tier giving it another obstacle, yeah, B is a bit high.

 

[Tuthur]

I'd like to hear some discussion on many of the Pokemon which might be due for a drop in the B ranks, some that come to mind might be Metang, Servine, Gabite, Quilladin, and others.

If you ask for,

I've used Quilladin this week. Here is a quick recap of why it's bad:
- invites every Grass-resistants threats in the tier: Combusken, Pinsir, Toucannon, Oricorios, Muk, ... This means that clicking Spikes gives a setup opportunity to any of this mon.
- needs to Synthesis almost everytime it comes on the field because it gets easily chipped by hazards (paradoxal for a Pokemon that only fits on stack hazard), VoltTurn (SR damages+Volt Switch from Scarf Vire is 20% damages taken, U-Turn from WaterVally is 20% without SR), Wood Hammer recoil (since Seed Bomb is to weak to even 2HKO SpD Mareanie) and takes way more damage from the things its supposed to check such as Golem than Gourg and Tangela.
- it's forced out by almost every hazard remover that is not Sandslash, Shiftry or non-Ice Beam Silvally (4- SpA Silvally-Fighting Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Quilladin: 116-138 (35.6 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock)
- Quilladin can't even switch on Mareanie or Gourgeist safely since if it gets burned it loses all its ridiculous offensive presence and can't do anything.
- Quilladin has a terrible 4mss since without Drain Punch Abo and Shiftry come for free and destroys Quill, without Taunt Quill can't prevent Defog and Toxic, without Synthesis Quilladin is going to faint before setting up its first layer of Spikes.

Indeed there is no real reason to run Quill over any Crustle set, so please move this to C+.

Metang: B -> Lower: Agree (Maybe B- or C+)
I know that Bronzor just fell to A, but it's still very viable, and Metang is still outclassed by it. It can run offensive moves, but it's surprisingly weak, and anything else it wants to do is done better by Bronzor. Combine that with Ghostvally coming into the tier giving it another obstacle, yeah, B is a bit high.

I used Metang and it's better than Bronzor on many build. Sure not having that Ground-Immunity nor that superior bulk makes Metang worse than Bronzor in a lot of way. However Metang is better than Bronzor on most offensive builds, because it's not setup fodder to as much things. Also I disagree with you saying Metang is weak. Sure it's not a wallbreaker, but it's able to rack up high damage on stuff like Shiftry (min 52% with Mash) and don't let Fire-types and Pawniard come for free since Earthquake OHKOes most of them. Also Metang last slot if pretty costumisable between Toxic for Gourg, Sandslash or Silvally-Water that would want to switch in, Thunder Punch for Swanna and the other Water-types, Pursuit for Psychic-types like Beheeyem that are very hard to switch into with offensive builds, Bullet Punch is a strong priority.
Tldr: Metang is a valuable Tank for offensive team because it doesn't sink as much momentum as Bronzor and doesn't let those dangerous Dark and Fire-type come for free. So keep Metang in B.

Misdreavus: B- -> C+
This is probably going to be a bit controversial, but I honestly think that Misdreavus isn't worthy of B-. 5gen explained that it's B- because it can do a lot of things that Silvally-Ghost can't do, such as Will-o-Wisp and Taunt, but honestly, I don't think that's enough to keep it this high. Don't get me wrong, those are nice and all, but we have better options for both. For Taunt, we have Floatzel and Vigoroth (both of which also have decent breaking power on top of this), and for Will-o-Wisp, we have Gourgeist-Super, who is a much better defensive Ghost-type in general. In addition to that, some meta trends have been mean to it as well, mainly the rise of Shiftry. Even when burned, Knock Off from Life Orb Shiftry still does more than 50% to Misdreavus, and Hex against burned Shiftry does no more than 33.9%. Misdreavus has even been dropping off in usage. Look at our usage stats, all the way back to our first set.

Usage

| 21 | Misdreavus | 6.43124% | (2018-05)
| 30 | Misdreavus | 4.43213% | (2018-06)
| 29 | Misdreavus | 5.67487% | (2018-07)
| 30 | Misdreavus | 6.21552% | (2018-08)
| 74 | Misdreavus | 2.25507% | (2018-09)
| 114 | Misdreavus | 1.03433% | (2018-10)
| 87 | Misdreavus | 2.06003% | (2018-11)
| 111 | Misdreavus | 1.39442% | (2018-12)
| 125 | Misdreavus | 0.79014% | (2019-01)

As you can see, last month was the lowest it's ever been in the usage stats. Anyway, while it's utility is nice, I think C+ is a more appropriate rank, but again, this is probably going to be controversial.

First, usage=/=viability (see Vigoroth). Then obviously Missy can't handle Shiftry and it has always been the case, same for BU Komala. You can't compare Floatzel to Missy only because they carry Taunt, Float is breaker whereas Missy is an offensive utility, same with Vigoroth which is a sweeper. Misdreavus can check many offensive threats from Pinsir to Bouffalant, while disturbing defensive Pokemon such as Mawile and Gourg. This is Misdreavus niche and it has always been, Shiftry becoming always more common hurts Missy's viability a bit but Missy can always burn it with a fast WoW if necessary. Komala's increasing BU usage doesn't change a lot of things, since it also means a decrase in other sets' usage which Missy wasn't already able to handle. So please don't drop Missy, it's good.

About the other B-ranks, I wont hold forth on them but I'm even so going to give my opinion on them:

Thoughts on B-ranks

B+
Chatot Don't drop

Leafeon Don't drop

Pawniard Don't drop

Raichu Don't drop

Rotom-Fan Don't drop

Sawsbuck Don't drop

Silvally Don't drop

Silvally-Poison Don't drop

Simipour 50/50 between drop to B and keep it B+

Toucannon Don't drop


B

Bellossom Idk

Camerupt Don't drop

Carbink Idk

Dusclops Don't drop

Gabite Don't drop

Golem-Alola Don't drop

Granbull Drop, it's bad. Intimidate is cool but Bull's bulk isn't and it doesn't have Mawile's resistances.

Machoke Don't drop or rise
Mawile Don't drop or rise

Metang Don't drop

Monferno Don't drop

Oricorio-Baille Don't drop

Oricorio-Pom-Pom Don't drop

Sandslash Don't drop

Servine Drop

Silvally-Dark Don't drop

Simisage Don't drop or rise


B-

Butterfree Don't drop

Cradily Don't drop

Dugtrio Don't drop

Dusknoir I know you don't want to drop this, but it becomes always rarer on TR teams and sucks in other teams.
Fraxure Don't drop, fantastic breaker

Grumpig Don't drop

Hakamo-o Don't drop, underrated setup sweeper now that Mareanie runs more SpD
Jumpluff Don't drop

Lapras Drop this, Specs is bad and Perish Trap isn't far better

Marowak Don't drop this, it's incredebly hard to switch on this.

Misdreavus Don't drop this

Noctowl Idk

Probopass Don't drop this

Purugly Idk

Rampardos Don't drop this

Quilladin Drop this

Raticate Don't drop this, it's excellent

Regigigas I believe you can drop this, because it never breaks stall between Furfrou, Rest Pyukumuku, Rest Dusclops and Gourg-S and it's MU against the other teams isn't good enough to keep it B-. Also, Mawile's rise in usage gives it a lot of trouble.

Shuckle Drop this, it's not better than Smeargle or Masquerain.

Silvally-Ground Don't drop this. It should rise actually.

Swoobat Don't drop this, Salac Berry is lit.

Wishiwashi Idk

 

[BP]

B+ ----> A-

In a meta ruled by one Electric-type its no wonder why other Electric-types are seldom seen. I'm here to preach the usefulness of an often overlooked Electric-type. Raichu is an often overlooked setup sweeper. Especially in the current meta where Hail and that demon Shiftry are seeing a lot of use. With access to a fantastic Speed tier it cements itself as a great late game cleaner. Below I'll be highlight a few replays where Raichu performs quite well. I'll be nomming another Pokemon as well alongside Raichu but Raichu is my main focus here. My goal in this post is to highlight the uses of other useful Electric-types in hopes that our current meta (a scarf Electivire Circle Jerk) will start to grow a little.

Raichu Set

Raichu @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Substitute

Thanks to its access to both Nasty Plot and Substitute, Raichu is a fantastic wallbreaker, stallbreaker, setup sweeper, etc. It forces plenty of switches and its able to easily take advantage of those via a Nasty Plot boost or a quick Substitute. In addition, Raichu's fantastic Speed tier gives it the ability to Revenge Kill slower Pokemon. Another thing to note is Raichu threatens a decent amount of top tier Pokemon right now such as Abomasnow, Komala, and even Golem with its incredibly power Z-Focus Blast thanks to its decently high Special Attack stat. Raichu works best during the midgame forcing switches and breaking past walls but it can be used early game as well if given the oppurtunity.

With all these positives Raichu still suffers from awful defensive stats which means it needs to be weary of priority moves such as Aqua Jet, Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, etc. However it can take advantage of Sucker Punch users thanks to Substitute. However Raichu really does not like receiving chip as it reduces the amount of times its able to set up Substitute.

I'm not going to ramble on about Raichu as I know other Users wanted to give their 2 cents.

B+----> A-
Finally I would like to brush up upon Rotom-Fan, a very over looked Electric-type Pokemon right now. I've been using scarf a lot recently and I've liked it a lot more than Electivire to be honest. Furthermore, Rotom-Fan has a Defensive set and Choice Specs set both of which are overlooked imo. Below I'll link a few replays that showcasing Rotom-Fan and Raichu on the same team.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-866630540https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-866627421https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-866392295https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-866400282

 

[Apagogie]

B+----> A-
Finally I would like to brush up upon Rotom-Fan, a very over looked Electric-type Pokemon right now. I've been using scarf a lot recently and I've liked it a lot more than Electivire to be honest. Furthermore, Rotom-Fan has a Defensive set and Choice Specs set both of which are overlooked imo. Below I'll link a few replays that showcasing Rotom-Fan and Raichu on the same team.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-866630540https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-866627421https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-866392295https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-866400282

Can you be more specific about why you want a Rotom-Fan rise ? Your personal preference without giving any reasoning to explain your purpose isn't a convincing argument. Defensive and Choice specs have always been common sets for Rotom-Fan and nothing has changed to project it A-.

At the contrary, Rotom-Fan struggles against common pokemons such as Komala SpD, Golem, Silvally-Ground, Muk, Vally-Dragon, etc. Locked sets are easily blocked by the numerous of electric immunities runned by team nowadays and lacks of speed/coverage on its scarf set makes it not as reliable as evire to RK threats Combusken at +2, Scarf Mime, RP Rampardos, etc. It relies globally on more support than other pivots and suffers from a 4mss.
I'm not fully opposed to a Rotom-Fan rise in theory but your post lacks of datas to show a strong evidence about the qualities of rotom-fan.

Silvally-Ground B- -> B/B+
Silvally-Ground is one of the best Vally form currently due to its ability to be one of the most punitive electivire answers. Its offensive utility coupled with a effective pivot move makes it more agressive than sandslash, which is very enjoyable in an offensive meta. It brings a lot of cool things in the teambuilding such as a rock resists (which is nice notably in pivoting), an eletric immunity, a way to pressure fire types in general and the ability to have only few guaranted switch in thanks to edgequake coverage or toxic. I have even played a variant with rest to improve its longevity and its match up against toxic users, in these conditions, it becomes difficult to get rid of even if it loses a bit of reactivity. Despite of a 4mss, it is one of the vally which brings the most utility to a team, it deserves a higher place according to what it does in the current meta.

 

[Graceclaw]

Thanks BP for beating me to the punch but allowing me to share some of my thoughts on Raichu. I've added a little bit to his post and provided additional analysis below.

B+ ----> A-

In a meta ruled by one Electric-type its no wonder why other Electric-types are seldom seen. I'm here to preach the usefulness of an often overlooked Electric-type. Raichu is an often overlooked setup sweeper. Especially in the current meta where Hail and that demon Shiftry are seeing a lot of use. With access to a fantastic Speed tier it cements itself as a great late game cleaner. Below I'll be highlight a few replays where Raichu performs quite well. I'll be nomming another Pokemon as well alongside Raichu but Raichu is my main focus here. My goal in this post is to highlight the uses of other useful Electric-types in hopes that our current meta (a scarf Electivire Circle Jerk) will start to grow a little.

Raichu Set

Raichu @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot / Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Substitute / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ice

Thanks to its access to both Nasty Plot and Substitute, Raichu is a fantastic wallbreaker, stallbreaker, setup sweeper, etc. It forces plenty of switches and its able to easily take advantage of those via a Nasty Plot boost or a quick Substitute. In addition, Raichu's fantastic Speed tier gives it the ability to Revenge Kill slower Pokemon. Another thing to note is Raichu threatens a decent amount of top tier Pokemon right now such as Abomasnow, Komala, and even Golem with its incredibly power Z-Focus Blast thanks to its decently high Special Attack stat. Raichu works best during the midgame forcing switches and breaking past walls but it can be used early game as well if given the opportunity.

With all these positives Raichu still suffers from awful defensive stats which means it needs to be weary of priority moves such as Aqua Jet, Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, etc. However it can take advantage of Sucker Punch users thanks to Substitute. However Raichu really does not like receiving chip as it reduces the amount of times its able to set up Substitute.

I'm not going to ramble on about Raichu as I know other Users wanted to give their 2 cents.

[/hide]

I agree with this nomination. Raichu has been an underappreciated threat for a long time now, probably (as noted by BP), because Electivire is just so darned prevalent in-game and in-discussion. Let's look at a couple things Raichu can do:
- Outspeed and threaten all relevant unboosted speed tiers.
- Notable mentions include Swanna, Rapidash, Kadabra, Electivire, and Leafeon. It's even fast enough to outspeed off-meta scarfers up to base 60 speed (unfortunately not Abomasnow)
- Boost SpAtk to reasonable levels with Nasty Plot and break/clean teams
- Threaten switch-ins with coverage move (HP Ice or Grass Knot for Gabite/Altaria/Gourgeist and Golem/Sandslash/etc, respectively)

Between these 3 attributes, Raichu threatens or flat-out beats everything in S and A+ rank and well over half of A rank Pokemon. If that doesn't scream "Meta Relevance", I don't know what does. Let's just look at a few scenarios that occur quite often (as BP showcased in his replays) and how Raichu can influence the game in the user's favor.

Komala
Unboosted Z-Focus Blast does a massive chunk to even the fully SpDef sets, and at +2, Komala is just obliterated. Given Raichu's ability to run Sub effectively (again as shown by BP), BU-Mala does not threaten unless it's at +1. This means that, if BU-Mala is a real problem for your team, you can customize to beat it.

Rapidash
Rapidash's inherent speed means it threatens a lot of teams and is almost uncontestable in unboosted speed, except Raichu and Floatzel. Raichu has no problem coming in on a predicted Morning Sun or after a KO to threaten this threatening fire-pony out or flat-out KO it, even unboosted.

Swanna
Swanna is meta-defining, no matter if you call it A+ or S. It exerts a ton of offensive pressure no matter which set or what's on the opponent team. It's paramount that each team have offensive answers to it, and Raichu fits this bill perfectly. It outspeeds all but Scarf Swan and obviously OHKOs with any STAB. Further, it can either pivot on the switch-in or hit the likely Ground (cough Golem cough cough) switch-in with Grass Knot or AOP. I can't stress enough how important it is to have a mon which consistently threatens Swanna and forces it out by outspeeding it.

Electivire
Everyone's favorite yellow monster kind of counters itself in that it has to lock itself into a move in order to nab its KOs, something which is exploitable. Simply having Raichu on your team can give you assurance that no, Scarf Vire is not going to lock itself into Wild Charge on your Silvally-Water. If it does, you get to bring in your Raichu for free and get a free +1 SpA. Non-Choiced Vire is threatened out or KO'd with Z-or-not-Focus Blast.

These are all extremely meta-relevant mons and situations, and Raichu finds itself in a position of power versus each of them. Looking at the difference between A- and B+, mons which are ranked B+ are potent and strong, but not broadly against meta mons. Everything in A- has a specific use vs the top-tier ZU Pokemon, something which Raichu also has.

Raichu isn't without its drawbacks, of course; 4mss is obvious because it really can't run everything it wants (Grass Knot, Focus Blast, and HP Ice as coverage options), but it is able to run any set (even specs) which fits your needs and the way you've built the rest of your team, and is definitely worthy of A- rank.

Now, briefly on to other noms:

Fantom B+ to A-:

Disagree

I've always been a supporter of the Buff Fan, but it really finds it hard to be relevant in a metagame defined by Shiftry and Electivire. Even the fully physdef set takes minimum 85% from +2 Shiftry Knock Off, and Scarf sets take more than enough from Sucker Punch to make it irrelevant as an offensive Shiftry counter; you may be able to pull off a cheeky burn with Will O on Scarf/Specs, but then you're locked in and Shiftry just SD's again while you switch out pitifully.

Electivire's prevalence makes it hard for Fantom to be useful, since every team packs at least one Electric immunity and prevents Volt Switching. Couple that with its rocks-weakness and you find yourself in a lot of situations with Fantom where you regret bringing it in. I wouldn't go so far as to say it should drop, but it definitely isn't in a strong enough position to rise (and this is coming from the guy who got destroyed by it in BP's replay).

Misdreavus: B- -> C+

Disagree

I don't know a lot about the finer points of this, but I've used Missy a couple times, and it's a nice niche Taunt + NP user which is surprisingly potent even without Will o + Hex shenanigans. I'd have to see a lot more evidence of it being irrelevant in normal play to support a drop.

Metang: B -> Lower:

Disagree.

I agree with Tuthur that it has a useful role in being a more offensively oriented rocker. I've found success with it as a Swanna check/counter because it can carry Thunder Punch; you really can't compare it to Bronzor because they do two distinctly different things.

Drop - Disagree strongly, I'd even argue for a rise

While Tuthur brings up good points about Quill inviting setup sweepers in and having 4mss, it is far too useful in checking several dominant threats. If you're concerned about inviting in setup threats like Muk / Busken / Pinsir / etc, run Roar. Chances are, you'll be able to Synth off the damage you took in the process.

Here's a replay showcasing a great performance vs 5gen in a packed roomtour final
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-866225697
Also styling on me because I'm bad. This one showcases how useful the Roar set could be on spikestack, as he just stayed in and Roared, confident he could live Flare Blitzes, etc.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-861832444

Gumshoos ---> Drop
Agree. As much as I love the idea of The Shoos, I find it hard to justify in a tier where Komala exists and is prevalent.

More to come from me, specifically regarding Gabite, but duty calls.

 

[BP]

B- -----> B

I'm making this post on love chants behalf who has graciously provided me with replays and his set. Recently he'd been testing Substitute Marowak as breaker. After I received his set I began to play with it myself and use it over Substitute Raichu which I mentioned in my last VR post. Below I'll provide you with the set that was used and few replays showcasing it in action. Lastly, I'll be touching upon some of the in B- and why I disagree with them dropping

Ready to get boned ;)

boneman (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bonemerang
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Substitute

Marowak holds a niche over the other Ground-types in the meta thanks to its signature item Thick Club which doubles its attack Stat. This mon is able to force so much shit out when it gets the chance. The beauty of it is that when you are able to predict a switch you can just Sub on it and most often times get some massive chip on a Marowak answer. Usually the opponent switching out is slower than you are. This makes it easy to take advantage of Pokemon like Golem, Bronzor, Muk, and Choice Band Komala. Marowak tends to put in work whenever it gets a chance to come in really. It's a fantastic physical Wallbreaker that is often over looked for other Pokemon such as Komala, Toucannon, and Granbull. Marowak loves to prey on cores such as Bronzor and Mareanie. Slow U-turn, P Shot, and Volt Switch users usually make for the best partners for Marowak allowing it to come in on slower mons for FREE!

While Marowak does possess extreme wallbreaking capabilities it falls victim to the absolute most disgusting move of all time, Knock off. This coupled with its poor speed stat means that it can be difficult for Marowak to maintain its offensive prowess during later stages of a match. However, once Marowak has broken passed what it needed to it can be effectively sacked like every other Pokemon out there

Replays

THANKS LOVE CHANTS
Marowak annilates Sub Raichu team composed of Mareanie and Bronzor
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-867164128
Marowak puts in a ton of work against the opposing player by ruining 3 key offensive Pokemon behind a Sub.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-867177344
marowak pressures, takes advantage of, and eventually kills mawile for leafeon to later clean
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-867085102
Marowak puts a ton of pressure on the opposing team. I missed my Bone :(
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-868197589

EDIT: Aaronboyer says that Offensive rocks is picking up steam and that it's a major point to note.

I'd like to hear some discussion on many of the Pokemon which might be due for a drop in the B ranks, some that come to mind might be Metang, Servine, Gabite, Quilladin, and others.

Regarding this beautiful Stealth Rocker, I am against this guy dropping 100%. Defensive Gabite is great from my perspective as it is able to discourage Physical attackers thanks to Rough Skin. Furthermore this thing packs so much Defense its kind of gross. It is able to pressure Silvally's thanks to Toxic and STAB Earthquake, something Golem isn't able to do as well. Lastly, it just doesn't deserve the drop to B-. It's a good mon that may very well be underused but I don't believe that warrants a drop.

This cute prickly boy shouldn't drop in my opinion. Its really the only defensive Spikes user in the tier and I think that benefits it heavily in terms of viability. Graceclaw made some really solid points in his post earlier so I'm not going to go into depth as he basically summed it up for me. Thanks Pal! Quill is an extra thicc boi with access to Synthesis, Spikes, and a Phazing move (Roar). This already benefits it so much for its current role as a Defensive spiker. Roar also allows it to get rid of boosted pokemon like Pinsir, Muk, Combusken, etc. The only downside to Quill is that it doesn't have Regenerator like our other prickly boi in the meta.

I'm kind of Biased towards Servine because I fell in love with it when I was creating my Z-RDance Swanna team which can be found in samples thread. Basically, what I really like about this Pokemon is, thanks to Contrary, It can do some pretty neat stuff like Spam Leaf Storm or a boosted Hidden Power move. In addition to Contrary, Servine is able to utilize Taunt fairly well on the likes of Silvally formes and other pokemon like Lickilicky. It also is able to pressure stall thanks to its stupendous Grass-typing. Servine also functions as an OK offensive defogger with access to Synthesis.
Here's the only replay I could find of Servine.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-835473947

 

[Aleccat]

I propose we nuke the Usually Useless rank. Seeing as techs and other niche Pokemon were mass-removed from VR, I think the meaning and significance of lower-ranked Pokemon has changed. I, the infamous Unmon advocate, no longer think 'Usually Useless' actually means 'Usually Useless', and that a lot of the Pokemon under 'Usually Useless' are either a) actually useless, b) severely underrated but still niche, or c) so weird and complex I'm not sure any ranking would really explain what they do for the metagame. Also including some other 'mons. I have probably tested all of them, but I've played against all of them at some point or another, so keep that in mind.

My proposed changes:

Rise to C-:

Gothitelle

Gourgeist
Silvally-Ice

I should not have to go so much in depth for this part, so I'll try not to, because I know no one will understand me if I don't break this down. There has ALWAYS (including last time it was discussed to be on the same rank as Meowstic-F) been a fundamental misunderstanding on WHEN you would use Gothitelle, and WHY you would use Gothitelle. Gothitelle is a potent Defog deterrent alternative to Grumpig, (it's also bulkier physically, although slower, which really does not matter if you're using either as a wall but I digress). The ONLY time you should use it is on Spike-stack archetypes, as it is generally preferable to Grumpig on such archetypes. Gothitelle, having Competitive, naturally deters Defog, which is a boon to Spike-stack. As such, Gothitelle benefits from the chip damage Spikes/Toxic Spikes provide, because on Komalaless/Sandslashless/Avaluggless teams, Defog is essential, and we all know how Competitive forces switches by threatening to kill Silvallys. I don't stan it as much as I did before Komala, but Gothitelle certainly is head and shoulders above 90% of Usually Useless, and I'd argue a lot of C- (aiming low though). Gourgeist is basically a cheap, Z-Move alternative to Silvally-Ghost; it takes a turn to set-up, and is still walled by several physical walls, like Mawile, but it has such an underutilized and unexplored movepool (including Fire Blast) that has legitimately swept some of my teams. I'm not getting in-depth on Silvally-Ice, I've argued with Czim in ZUcord about it so if you want you can Ctrl+F that.

Drop off of VR:

Lumineon

Meowstic-F

Seviper

Togetic

Wartortle

Glalie

Sliggoo

Vullaby

Lumineon has always been touted as a Silvally-Water alternative when you are running an offensive Silvally. The problem with this is Lumineon has trouble checking things Silvally-Water would, such as Special Floatzel, Physical Floatzel, and *insert niche Floatzel set here* Floatzel. Meowstic-F's only real purpose in ZU is that Assist + Geomancy gimmick, having tested Scarf, CM, and Sub, I can safely say there's no reason why you would want to run it over Gothitelle on Spike-stack, and no reason why you would want to sacrifice Pawniard or Purugly to put it on Webs. Unlike Gothitelle, who has bulk to make up for her poor Speed, Meowstic-F flops mainly because it has average coverage and not enough hitting power. When would you generally run this over Dabra? Its Speed tier isn't even great anymore as we have things such as Floatzel in our tier that it's time to euthanize this cat. Seviper struggles because a) Ground-type coverage is common, b) there are better Switcheroo stallbreakers, or stallbreakers in general, c) there are better mixed wallbreakers such as Electivire, Floatzel, Toucannon, even Mawile, all of whom benefit from this meta and don't feel like a burden to build with, d) the player using it often has to pick between valuable moves such as Flamethrower, Giga Drain, Knock Off, Earthquake, and Glare, e) Sucker Punch is not as valuable anymore with Shiftry having access to it, and that being safer generally. My main qualm with keeping Togetic ranked is it is a Fairy-type WishPasser and why not use Lickilicky, as Aaron once said about Floette. It is exceptionally bad in this meta, particularly because of Electrics such as Electivire and having to deal with such pivots. Also Defog is not as valuable with Spinners having a fair share of viability in ZU ATM (the top 'mon is a Spinner). Unlike other viable Fairies like Floette, Togetic struggles because it checks nothing as a defensive 'mon really, and as such it is not worthy of being ranked. Wartortle is worse Prinplup, why is it still here? Glalie is bad because
0 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Silvally-Water: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Silvally-Water Surf vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Glalie: 126-148 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

also Ghost-types such as Gourgeist-Super and Silvally-Ghost (this mainly) making its life a lot worse by negating its Explosion damage. Go use Smeargle if you insist on using Suicide Lead HO (please don't though, suicide leads are bad unless they are Sturdy). Sliggoo should be unranked primarily because defensive DD Altaria takes its niche and does it better, with more flexibility, and a Ground immunity. Vullaby has not been relevant for metas, and is somehow at C. Vullaby is worse than any of the Pokemon I have mentioned, and obviously Electivire/Mime (you can run calcs, it doesn't deal with Dazzling Gleam Mime)/Floatzel/Abomasnow.....I could go on. Its unique typing, previously touted as a reason to use it, is exactly what hinders it in real gameplay. It doesn't even need to be Knocked Off to get 2HKO'd by X common super-effective move, such as LO Floatzel Ice Beam. Who needs a defensive pivot when we have Komala?

Actually weird Pokemon that no one knows what to do with:

Lopunny

Shedinja

Slaking

I'm grouping these together because these are the three 'gimmick' Pokemon ranked, and I feel it would be unfair to advocate one to get unranked/stay ranked when they're all pretty gimmicky and force you to build teams around them. I'd like to mention that as the most infamous Lopunny player (yes I got non-Klutz Specs to get 14% of its set usage one time, thanks blalib), I enjoy using Lopunny. I have tried at least 5 different Lopunny sets in testing, and I'm still sure I could try at least 10 more. It's an incredibly fun, almost gimmick Pokemon, as it is so versatile and has so many things it can do. Yes I did try Z-Splash, it's meh because SD Sawsbuck, Komala, and Leafeon (actually reaches a higher Attack than Lopunny after a Swords Dance) all have comparable/better coverage or more accessible nuking that doesn't require a turn AND a Z-Move. My first experience using it was a triple status set that I saw back in the day, and while that's fun and all, the main, and only, reason to use Lopunny is Healing Wish. Healing Wish is a gamechanging move as we all know, it gives a worn-down sweeper a second chance to sweep by sacrificing the user. The problems start when you take into account that Lopunny has terrible defenses, and in my experience, will often be whittled down to where she either cannot switch in to get off the Healing Wish, or will just be outright killed. Unlike Chimecho, Lopunny has meh typing and either doesn't have an ability (when doing Switcheroo), or has an ability it seldomly uses (T-Wave is rare in our metagame). Unlike Mr. Meme, Lopunny does not have the hitting power and insane coverage for its primary attacking stat, nor is its STAB super essential (or beneficial) to its success. Switcheroo + Klutz also suffers from the poor defenses thing; as a support 'mon, Lopunny often feels throwaway because it can't tank a hit to save its life (literally). Taking all of this into consideration, the best set would have to be Limber + Band with Healing Wish, STAB, HJK, and a filler move (this can be really anything you'd like), as it is the only set without a comparable niche in the tier that feels okay to build with. Band allows Lopunny to hit harder, allowing it to have an impact on the game besides Healing Wish. It is the only set I have found that feels not wholly outclassed/deadweight. Generally, building with Lopunny often feels like building with a new playstyle, and I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing. Speaking of which, Shedinja is another 'mon infamous for creating a specific playstyle that can be generally viewed at as subpar/incredibly hard to make work. Knock Off, Dark-types, and Ghost-types have been on the rise since Shedinja was last remotely meta (rip Shedistall), so I'm going to skip this one and let you all form your own opinions on it. Slaking being C- in the first place shocks me. Slaking, as we all know, has Uber-like stats, but has to switch out the turn after it attacks. However, Ghosts (it only has a chance to 2HKO Gourgeist-Super on a Banded Shadow Claw. Yes, Fire Blast is a thing, but I'm speaking of the best set, and why LO when you're going to switch after you attack anyway) make its Normal-type STAB nukes less desirable, and as such, Slaking is worse off in this meta than it was previously.

So yeah those are my thoughts on the low-rank Pokemon, and why we should abolish them, feel free to discuss with me on here or on the ZU Discord.

 

[Xayah]

I propose we nuke the Usually Useless rank. Seeing as techs and other niche Pokemon were mass-removed from VR, I think the meaning and significance of lower-ranked Pokemon has changed. I, the infamous Unmon advocate, no longer think 'Usually Useless' actually means 'Usually Useless', and that a lot of the Pokemon under 'Usually Useless' are either a) actually useless, b) severely underrated but still niche, or c) so weird and complex I'm not sure any ranking would really explain what they do for the metagame. Also including some other 'mons. I have probably tested all of them, but I've played against all of them at some point or another, so keep that in mind.

My proposed changes:

Rise to C-:

Gothitelle

Gourgeist
Silvally-Ice

I should not have to go so much in depth for this part, so I'll try not to, because I know no one will understand me if I don't break this down. There has ALWAYS (including last time it was discussed to be on the same rank as Meowstic-F) been a fundamental misunderstanding on WHEN you would use Gothitelle, and WHY you would use Gothitelle. Gothitelle is a potent Defog deterrent alternative to Grumpig, (it's also bulkier physically, although slower, which really does not matter if you're using either as a wall but I digress). The ONLY time you should use it is on Spike-stack archetypes, as it is generally preferable to Grumpig on such archetypes. Gothitelle, having Competitive, naturally deters Defog, which is a boon to Spike-stack. As such, Gothitelle benefits from the chip damage Spikes/Toxic Spikes provide, because on Komalaless/Sandslashless/Avaluggless teams, Defog is essential, and we all know how Competitive forces switches by threatening to kill Silvallys. I don't stan it as much as I did before Komala, but Gothitelle certainly is head and shoulders above 90% of Usually Useless, and I'd argue a lot of C- (aiming low though). Gourgeist is basically a cheap, Z-Move alternative to Silvally-Ghost; it takes a turn to set-up, and is still walled by several physical walls, like Mawile, but it has such an underutilized and unexplored movepool (including Fire Blast) that has legitimately swept some of my teams. I'm not getting in-depth on Silvally-Ice, I've argued with Czim in ZUcord about it so if you want you can Ctrl+F that.

Drop off of VR:

Lumineon

Meowstic-F

Seviper

Togetic

Wartortle

Glalie

Sliggoo

Vullaby

Lumineon has always been touted as a Silvally-Water alternative when you are running an offensive Silvally. The problem with this is Lumineon has trouble checking things Silvally-Water would, such as Special Floatzel, Physical Floatzel, and *insert niche Floatzel set here* Floatzel. Meowstic-F's only real purpose in ZU is that Assist + Geomancy gimmick, having tested Scarf, CM, and Sub, I can safely say there's no reason why you would want to run it over Gothitelle on Spike-stack, and no reason why you would want to sacrifice Pawniard or Purugly to put it on Webs. Unlike Gothitelle, who has bulk to make up for her poor Speed, Meowstic-F flops mainly because it has average coverage and not enough hitting power. When would you generally run this over Dabra? Its Speed tier isn't even great anymore as we have things such as Floatzel in our tier that it's time to euthanize this cat. Seviper struggles because a) Ground-type coverage is common, b) there are better Switcheroo stallbreakers, or stallbreakers in general, c) there are better mixed wallbreakers such as Electivire, Floatzel, Toucannon, even Mawile, all of whom benefit from this meta and don't feel like a burden to build with, d) the player using it often has to pick between valuable moves such as Flamethrower, Giga Drain, Knock Off, Earthquake, and Glare, e) Sucker Punch is not as valuable anymore with Shiftry having access to it, and that being safer generally. My main qualm with keeping Togetic ranked is it is a Fairy-type WishPasser and why not use Lickilicky, as Aaron once said about Floette. It is exceptionally bad in this meta, particularly because of Electrics such as Electivire and having to deal with such pivots. Also Defog is not as valuable with Spinners having a fair share of viability in ZU ATM (the top 'mon is a Spinner). Unlike other viable Fairies like Floette, Togetic struggles because it checks nothing as a defensive 'mon really, and as such it is not worthy of being ranked. Wartortle is worse Prinplup, why is it still here? Glalie is bad because
0 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Silvally-Water: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Silvally-Water Surf vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Glalie: 126-148 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

also Ghost-types such as Gourgeist-Super and Silvally-Ghost (this mainly) making its life a lot worse by negating its Explosion damage. Go use Smeargle if you insist on using Suicide Lead HO (please don't though, suicide leads are bad unless they are Sturdy). Sliggoo should be unranked primarily because defensive DD Altaria takes its niche and does it better, with more flexibility, and a Ground immunity. Vullaby has not been relevant for metas, and is somehow at C. Vullaby is worse than any of the Pokemon I have mentioned, and obviously Electivire/Mime (you can run calcs, it doesn't deal with Dazzling Gleam Mime)/Floatzel/Abomasnow.....I could go on. Its unique typing, previously touted as a reason to use it, is exactly what hinders it in real gameplay. It doesn't even need to be Knocked Off to get 2HKO'd by X common super-effective move, such as LO Floatzel Ice Beam. Who needs a defensive pivot when we have Komala?

Actually weird Pokemon that no one knows what to do with:

Lopunny

Shedinja

Slaking

I'm grouping these together because these are the three 'gimmick' Pokemon ranked, and I feel it would be unfair to advocate one to get unranked/stay ranked when they're all pretty gimmicky and force you to build teams around them. I'd like to mention that as the most infamous Lopunny player (yes I got non-Klutz Specs to get 14% of its set usage one time, thanks blalib), I enjoy using Lopunny. I have tried at least 5 different Lopunny sets in testing, and I'm still sure I could try at least 10 more. It's an incredibly fun, almost gimmick Pokemon, as it is so versatile and has so many things it can do. Yes I did try Z-Splash, it's meh because SD Sawsbuck, Komala, and Leafeon (actually reaches a higher Attack than Lopunny after a Swords Dance) all have comparable/better coverage or more accessible nuking that doesn't require a turn AND a Z-Move. My first experience using it was a triple status set that I saw back in the day, and while that's fun and all, the main, and only, reason to use Lopunny is Healing Wish. Healing Wish is a gamechanging move as we all know, it gives a worn-down sweeper a second chance to sweep by sacrificing the user. The problems start when you take into account that Lopunny has terrible defenses, and in my experience, will often be whittled down to where she either cannot switch in to get off the Healing Wish, or will just be outright killed. Unlike Chimecho, Lopunny has meh typing and either doesn't have an ability (when doing Switcheroo), or has an ability it seldomly uses (T-Wave is rare in our metagame). Unlike Mr. Meme, Lopunny does not have the hitting power and insane coverage for its primary attacking stat, nor is its STAB super essential (or beneficial) to its success. Switcheroo + Klutz also suffers from the poor defenses thing; as a support 'mon, Lopunny often feels throwaway because it can't tank a hit to save its life (literally). Taking all of this into consideration, the best set would have to be Limber + Band with Healing Wish, STAB, HJK, and a filler move (this can be really anything you'd like), as it is the only set without a comparable niche in the tier that feels okay to build with. Band allows Lopunny to hit harder, allowing it to have an impact on the game besides Healing Wish. It is the only set I have found that feels not wholly outclassed/deadweight. Generally, building with Lopunny often feels like building with a new playstyle, and I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing. Speaking of which, Shedinja is another 'mon infamous for creating a specific playstyle that can be generally viewed at as subpar/incredibly hard to make work. Knock Off, Dark-types, and Ghost-types have been on the rise since Shedinja was last remotely meta (rip Shedistall), so I'm going to skip this one and let you all form your own opinions on it. Slaking being C- in the first place shocks me. Slaking, as we all know, has Uber-like stats, but has to switch out the turn after it attacks. However, Ghosts (it only has a chance to 2HKO Gourgeist-Super on a Banded Shadow Claw. Yes, Fire Blast is a thing, but I'm speaking of the best set, and why LO when you're going to switch after you attack anyway) make its Normal-type STAB nukes less desirable, and as such, Slaking is worse off in this meta than it was previously.

So yeah those are my thoughts on the low-rank Pokemon, and why we should abolish them, feel free to discuss with me on here or on the ZU Discord.

I want to give a very quick response to this, not going too in depth, that council has discussed this same proposal last slate as a direct result of Tuthur1's post right here. We collectively decided we wanted to keep the Usually Useless rank to function the same role as D rank in other tiers, but we can't define it quite the same way (ZU by usage but ass), because it'd be way too big in that case. As a direct result of this discussion, we voted on every UU rank to be moved and the current situation is the result. I'd need to see solid reasoning as to why the council needs to discuss this issue again, and most importantly what changed to make us want something else now.

 

[kay]

Time for some VR noms. Some of these will probably seem controversial but hopefully my reasoning at least explains the logic behind them.


Rises:

A+ --> S
With the inclusion of Komala into S rank, I strongly feel so though Swanna is on that same level. Its obviously much stronger then everything around it in the A ranks, and thanks to its many sets ranging between offensive defog, Zmirror, scarf, and Zrain dance, you're able to build out your team to flex swanna into beating specific counters. There's almost always going to be a use for Swanna on every team, and no matter what its always going to put in work. I think right now its clearly one of the best mons in the entire tier and I'd like to see it move into S thanks to the raw strength, speed, and flexibility it can provide teams.

(dragon) A- --> A
With Bronzor taking a hit in viability lately, Vally dragon has taken the spotlight to shine thanks to its unique access to draco which is a total nuke for any team to have to play around thanks to the lack of available resists. U-turn and Defog gives it some very welcome utility to provide teams with other then just a strong nuke, and flamethrower can get around the annoying steel types that would switch into Draco. I think its up there as the most viable vally forms so I think matching the others in A would be a nice thing to see

C+ --> B
Avalugg has been gaining quite a bit of traction lately thanks to the meta shifting to Shiftry. Having a spinner in the tier is a welcome sight for most teams already, but when you add the fact its a hard answer to things like CB Komala and Shiftry its no wonder people have been picking it up. With enough bulk to avoid the 2hko from adamant Golem it can even hard switch and spin on almost all the rock setters in the tier. The only one that really gives it issues is Bronzor but its reduced viability and the extra surge of Golem only keeps helping it.

C- --> C+ (and please remove that Furfrou line in the OP. Its offensive.)
So this was something that moved up last shift from my using it on stall teams, but I wanted to post it up higher and point out it fits on more then just stall. Any balance teams looking for a Shiftry and SD Pinsir answer that could also use a pseudo special wall can opt to run this win condition as their back pocket ace thanks to its great speed and insane physical bulk. A lot of teams can just auto lose to this on match up if they don't have a special breaker that can break it in 1 hit.

Here is one such replay of using it on balance and it coming in as the clutch win condition for the team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-870579761

And fun fact, you're able to pp stall everything from Gourgeist to both SD and special Vally ghost.


Drops:

B- --> C+
I don't see why we wouldn't drop Missy. If you run Hex you're literally the definition of Komala bait, and if you run foul play you're just a worse Gourgeist with Taunt. The only viable use it has is its ability to stop Vigoroth and be a ground immunity that takes up to 60% from Golem's Stone Edge. It might be annoying to face but I'd call it a worse then our other ghosts.

EDIT: After testing out foul play missy, its actually so much harder to deal with for bulky teams then I originally thought. Add to that us losing ghost-vally and Tangela who were two really annoying mons for this to deal with and we have a real winner for the metagame shifts. The combo of Taunt + Pain Split means that any bulky teams are going to go through hell to break it, and the decline of Gourgeist in the meta means there's less competition for it as a ghost type. Its fine to stay where it is as a balance breaker. (Just please for the love of god don't run hex)

(water) A --> B+
When you compare this to the other top tier Vally forms, its obvious this defogger really doesn't stand up anymore. Pure water typing doesn't help very much as you're worn down so incredibly fast you're often forced to chose between defogging and taking chip getting it in or using it to actually wall the things you'd run it to beat like Floatzel, Combusken, and Swanna (even tho you really don't do well into any of them). And your ability to get chipped only comes into play more and more when you try to hard switch it into SR users to try and defog out the rocks. Its not a removal mon you can switch into setters and its typing really doesn't help you beat anything useful in the meta anymore, especially as you're forced to give up its trademark speed for the needed bulk.

(poison) B+ --> C
Is there really a reason to use this right now? Mareanie has been the go-to pure poison defensive mon for quite some time and thanks to the infinitely more useful utility and recovery options it has, its safe to say there's quite a bit of competition now for Vally Poision. And while yes it is technically removal, I'd say its not exactly good removal as it can't hard switch into any of the SR mons, it has no recovery to try and abuse its defensive typing/sets a pure poison would want to try using, and its often just a sub-par choice for any team that would try and use it thanks to the number of other viable mons that can do what you'd run it to do instead.

 

[SBPC]

Alright it's time to drop a couple ideas for drops, as well as my opinions on a couple other posts.

Regigigas: B- to C
No matter what way you spin this thing's set, it's the lumineon of normal types. Seriously, it's outclassed in every way by Vigoroth, Lickilicki, and Komala, who have substantially better bulk, longevity, abilities, and damage. There is absolutely no reason to run regi over these three, and it's apparent boons are just done better by the other bulky normals. It's substitutes get popped by really common offensive threats, take your pick at any of them, and for the first 5 turns it's on the field it's just sheer fodder. No reason to run this thing other for the meme, drop it.

A+ --> S
With the inclusion of Komala into S rank, I strongly feel so though Swanna is on that same level. Its obviously much stronger then everything around it in the A ranks, and thanks to its many sets ranging between offensive defog, Zmirror, scarf, and Zrain dance, you're able to build out your team to flex swanna into beating specific counters. There's almost always going to be a use for Swanna on every team, and no matter what its always going to put in work. I think right now its clearly one of the best mons in the entire tier and I'd like to see it move into S thanks to the raw strength, speed, and flexibility it can provide teams.

I wanna just say i agree with this post to no end, Swanna is an insanely dominant force that constantly has to be prepared for, and it shows during play. Between one of its twenty thousand sets, it can constantly provide offensive presence and blast through weakened teams. It's more than deserving of an S ranking.

I also agree with Kay's rises for Avalugg and Furfrou, but I have nothing to add to these nominations.

I'd like to hear some discussion on many of the Pokemon which might be due for a drop in the B ranks, some that come to mind might be Metang, Servine, Gabite, Quilladin, and others.

I disagree with a drop for Servine. It's wallbreaking capabilities are absolutely stellar, especially once it gets it's leaf storm boosts up. It having the option to run Synthesis as well gives it a little more support on the bulk end when coupled with Eviolite, and Taunt + Glare is a magificent move combination for stallbreaking. However, because of the prominence of shiftry, I propose it just remains where it is.

 

[BP]

A+ ----> S

I agree with this ranking 100%. I actually held off from nominating this in my last post because I wasn't too confident that it would be taken seriously but now that I have 2 users I can build off of I'm comfortable with making this nomination. Below I'll paste some of the teams I've created and give an explanation just why Swanna should be S. Also you can check out my analysis Here if you want a more in depth look of Swanna in the meta game.

God's Perfect Bird

Swanna @ Flyinium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Big Pecks
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost

Swanna @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rain Dance
- Surf / Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost / Ice Beam

Swanna @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Big Pecks
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mirror Move
- Brave Bird
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet / Roost

Swanna is a top tier Pokemon right now alongside Komala. Thanks to the wide variety of sets, namely access to both a Special and Physically viable set, it becomes a major threat when playing. Furthermore, Swanna has an incredibly potent offensive typing that allows it to threaten would be defensive checks like the Silvally formes and Wish Protect Komala. Swanna is such an easy Pokemon to build around and extremely beginner friendly that it's truly a blessing that we got this thing in the first place. It's so easy to cater to Swanna and fit it on a team thanks to our primarily Balanced and Offensive meta we have currently. In addition, Swanna pairs extremely well with some of the tiers top Pokemon such as Golem, Silvally-Fighting, Electivire, and Komala. The Pokemon I just named can all fit together on a team and complement each other extremely well with Swanna patching up the teams weaknesses. Swanna is easily comparable to Komala from my perspective. They are both great Glue for any Balance or Offensive team. However, Swanna has something that Komala does not and that's an overwhelming variety and potency of its sets. Swanna has been and will continue to be a prominent Pokemon tier and is more than deserving of the S ranking.

and Friends

Team 1 Z-Rain OTR Mashup

Swanna (M) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Surf
- Rain Dance
- Roost

Beheeyem @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball / Simple Beam
- Trick Room

Komala (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off

Silvally-Fighting @ Fighting Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 154 Def / 104 Spe
Impish Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Parting Shot
- Defog
- Toxic

Gabite (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Toxic

Electivire (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Flamethrower
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Team 2 Jesus Bird + Servine Sample Team

Jesus (Swanna) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Surf
- Rain Dance
- Roost

Dr. Mala (Komala) @ Leftovers
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Wish
- Protect
- Bulk Up

Muhammad (Silvally-Fighting) @ Fighting Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Swords Dance
- Defog
- U-turn

Rick Ross (Golem) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch

ZU's Fetish (Electivire) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Flamethrower
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Silk Spectre (Servine) @ Eviolite
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt

Team 3 Swanna + Mixed Shiftry

Ocean Man (Swanna) (M) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Surf
- Rain Dance
- Roost

Daddy's Girl (Electivire) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Flamethrower
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Grim Leafer (Shiftry) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch

Euca lic ma balls (Komala) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off

Ali (Silvally-Fighting) @ Fighting Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 154 Def / 104 Spe
Impish Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Parting Shot
- Defog
- Toxic

ORAS PU (Monferno) @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Slack Off
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

Team 4 Bird + Buck Balance

Volt (Electivire) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Motor Drive
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake

Rain Man (Swanna) (M) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Surf
- Rain Dance
- Roost

Clay (Golem) (M) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Explosion

Ali (Silvally-Fighting) @ Fighting Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 88 Def / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- U-turn
- Defog
- Toxic

Mala (Komala) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off

June (Sawsbuck-Summer) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headbutt
- Horn Leech
- Jump Kick
- Toxic

C+ ----> B
I would like to Echo what kay said about our cold flat friend Avalugg. Thanks to the realization that Shiftry is one of the biggest offensive breakers in the tier Avalugg has been seeing a lot more usage. In addtion to this, the fact that it has access to the highly sought after Rapid Spin only helps its boost my case ten fold. With Bulk Up Komala being my personal favorite set I struggle with putting Rapid Spin on Komala. I'd much rather use a Physically Defensive beast such as Avalugg for spinner. With Access to Recover it can maintain its longevity throughout the match which releives a lot of the pressure that it receives from being weak to Stealth Rocks. In additon to the points I've already made, I think its important to note that it's my opinion that Avalugg should receive an analysis thanks to ultity.

 

[Tsareentje]

Vullaby C --> UR
Disagree

Before we can start, get to know Vullaby:

Importable

Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

The set is self-explaining:
-Foul Play for strong stab against physical attackers
-U-Turn for slow momentum
-Defog for hazard control
-Roost is your recovery

Vullaby has not been relevant for metas, and is somehow at C. Vullaby is worse than any of the Pokemon I have mentioned, and obviously Electivire/Mime (you can run calcs, it doesn't deal with Dazzling Gleam Mime)/Floatzel/Abomasnow.....I could go on. Its unique typing, previously touted as a reason to use it, is exactly what hinders it in real gameplay. It doesn't even need to be Knocked Off to get 2HKO'd by X common super-effective move, such as LO Floatzel Ice Beam. Who needs a defensive pivot when we have Komala?

I want to share my experience of Vullaby with you, because I really disagree on this nomination. I will prove why you want to use Vullaby and not only why you don't want to use Vullaby.

Vullaby is known as a defogger and it is a solid mon for hazard removal. Vullaby isn't the best for a defogger, because Vullaby doesn't do well against common sr setters like Golem. So then, people will ask why do want to use Vullaby when you can pick a hazard remover who has a better matchup against sr setters like Avalugg.

First of all, its main niche is being a Shiftry check. Thanks to its unique typing Vullaby can check Shiftry extremely well. Unlike some other really good Shiftry checks Vullaby doesn't have much trouble against mixed Shiftry, like Mawile and Avalugg do. With its great bulk Vullaby has also a good matchup against physical attackers like Rapidash and non Band Komala (watch out for non eviolite though). Vullaby is an effective defensive pokemon thanks to the reliable recovery from Roost.

Vullaby also offers team pivoting due to the move U-Turn. Because of its speed stat (60) Vullaby gives the team a slow U-Turn, unlike Silvally Forms do. Slow pivotting can help when you can sponge a hit and then you can switch into the right pokemon. It is also good when the opponent sends in something that works well against Vullaby like Golem or Mr. Mime.

People will say that Vullaby is passive most of the time, but that isn't true at all. In fact Foul Play is a strong stab that can be dangerous against pokemon with a high attack stat, for example Pinsir or Bouffalant. Keep in mind that the damage is not good against full defensive pokemon or special attackers with a low attack stat.

Calcs

0 Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 165-195 (60.8 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Komala: 202-238 (74.5 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rapidash: 172-204 (63.4 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electivire: 207-244 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even solid damage against some bulkier Pokemons:
0 Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Crustle: 109-130 (38.7 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (max attack set)
0 Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Golem: 127-151 (42.1 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO (max attack set)

Advantages and disadvantages in short

Importable

+Hazard removal
+Good defensive pokemon with reliable recovery
+Slow pivotting
+Unique typing (with two immunities)
+One of the better Shiftry checks
+Good damage against physical attackers
+No set up bait for physical attackers
+Great bulk with eviolite

-Sr weak
-Bulk less effective when knocked off
-Most of the time bad matchup against sr setters
-Weak to some common pokemon in the tier
-Can be outclassed by other hazard removers
-Passive against special attackers or defensive pokemon unless you U-Turn
-Set up bait for special attackers
-Sometimes hard to keep healthy, because you are sr weak

Replay
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-870632605
Vullaby is useful in this battle, because it can wall Shiftry completely here. Vullaby gives momentum and it has a ground immunity which is good against the choiced locked Komala.

So I would say keep Vullaby in C, because it has some very good niches. Or if Vullaby effectiviness is really dropping (which I don't see happening because of how common Shiftry is and how useful moves it has) drop it to C- and not any further.

Thanks for reading!

 

[BP]

C ----> B- / B
First and foremost I want to start off by saying I apologize for making so many VR posts recently but I really think Shiinotic should be rising. I've been playing with this thing a lot recently. By a lot I mean like 5+ hours of ladder grinding plus a few matches against users who didn't use shitty gimmicks. I will be providing replays showcasing Shiinotic and how it performs as a wall.

Tripping Shrooms Man

Shiinotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Strength Sap
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain

With pokemon like Komala, Shiftry, and Golem being top tier offensive pokemon its no wonder why I've been enjoying Shiinotic very much. Thanks to access to Spore and Strength Sap shiinotic becomes a struggle to switch into unless you've already of course sacked a Pokemon to Spore. In additon, Strength Sap and Spore provide great utility if you want to bring in a set-up sweeper more safely. If a Pokemon is already asleep Shiinotic can chip a Pokemon with its STAB Moonblast. Strength Sap allows it to become a really nice Physcially Defensive wall as well as giving it a Semi-reliable form of recovery in conjunction with Leftovers. It's ability Effect Spore is great at discouraging Physical attacks as well. Shiinotic pairs extremely well with some of the tiers more specially defensive Pokemon such as Muk, Komala, and Kecleon forming an exceptional balanced core. I've personally been using Muk and Shiinotic because they compliment each others weaknesses extremely nicely. Prior to using Shiinotic I found it extremely lackluster and overall just a bad Pokemon both on paper and in practice. Now that I've been using I've taken a 180 in my opinion on the Pokemon.

Please keep in mind these are Ladder replays so they may not be up to quality but they all show Shiinotic doing its job well.

Replays

This match is probably one of the best games. It show Shiinotic doing its job really well. Unfortunately I make a mistake early in the game and end up choking in the end. 70+ turns I think
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-872030588

Shiinotic puts in work towards the end of the match and takes care of AV Kecleon so ZU's Bird Jesus can swoop in and take care of the match as it always does.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-872025365
Shiinotic bops his offensive attackers and he ends up forfeiting early.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-871844512

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

Beartic: C+ to B

Beartic is limited in that it really only succeeds as a hail sweeper, of to which requires two Ice types on your team. This combo is annoying for team building, as it not only relies on Abomasnow, but it leaves at least 2 SR weaknesses as well as Fire/Fighting/Rock/Steal weaknesses without too much for resistances. I believe that this is what naively put Beartic so low on the rankings, and these shortcomings still exist today.

However, the immense power of both this combo and Beartic alone makes it absolutely worth it. Essentially, Beartic has the right amount of power and speed, along with good teammates to make it sweep teams. Take the set that I got to 1680 on the ZU ladder with, and won many ZU room tournies with:

Beartic @ Icium Z
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Superpower
- Substitute

Essentially, the Ice stab and high bp Fighting coverage is all you need to hit almost everything in the tier for hard damage, and even resisted hits of Subzero Slammer are crazy. Sub is great for dodging Toxic, and SD lets you set up in the right situation. This combo of SD/Sub/Icium provides threatening mindgames against a ton of situations. Furthermore, even without set up, Icicle Crash 1HKOs so much after rocks. Seriously, offense has a really hard time finding a check to Beartic, even with a scarfer. It's speed makes it be slower than most scarfers, yet it still threatens them all. Essentially, it meshes well with another A+ mon in Aboma, and it is incredibly powerful and threatening once hail is up. To me that justifies it as a worthy B tier sweeper.

 

[BP]

Machoke is cuter than Sleepy Boi Komala

B ----> B+ / A-

I personally Feel that A- is a bit of a stretch but with how many Pokemon this thing is able to check I believe it's worth suggesting. Below I'll provide an explanation, replays, and calcs on why I believe Machoke should move up.

muscley boi

Machoke (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 SpD / 44 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Machoke (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Toxic

Look at that precious smile. So wholesome.
With impressive mixed defenses, great Fighting STAB, and two viable abilities, it's kind of shocking that Machoke finds itself sitting at B Rank in the current metagame. Machoke finds itself with a good match-up against Pokemon like Abomasnow, Shiftry, Komala, Electivire, and a handful of Pokemon who run Eviolite in the metagame. My personal Favorite set is Rest Talk Defensive Machoke due to its ability to shut down prominent Balance and Bulky Offense favorites such as Komala, Lickilicky, and a decent amount of Silvally formes. Not to mention both Machoke sets act as a good status absorber if your team lacks Komala although the Rest Talk set usually does this better. Machoke is a great candidate for Balance and Bulky Offense teams due to the sheer amount of Potent Pokemon it is able to check. Pokemon struggle to switch into both of its sets due to the amount of chip damage it can put out. It's the straight up GOAT not gonna lie.

Aww look at him flex his pecs

Juicy Wall Of Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Eviolite Machoke: 147-174 (40.3 - 47.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage (This shit is hot)
0 Atk Machoke Dynamic Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 272-324 (84.7 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Electivire Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 165-195 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Electivire Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 127-150 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 140-165 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Shiftry Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Eviolite Machoke: 170-200 (46.7 - 54.9%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Machoke Dynamic Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Komala: 152-182 (45.5 - 54.4%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 153-180 (42 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252 Atk Crustle Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Crustle Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 96-114 (26.3 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Crustle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 126-148 (34.6 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Crustle Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 225-266 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

See Machoke can even dance. Look at his Floss technique.

Replays

I get absolutely smashed by Xayah's Guts Close Combat Machoke.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-874543980
Machoke applies loads of pressure and the opponent quite literally has to play around it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-878185007
The team gets Bopped by Muk Tang but Machoke puts in work but is extremely pressured by Psyshock Mime and isn't strong enough to take a Choice Banded Return from Komala towards the end.
252 Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 205-243 (56.3 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-873356201

EDIT: It's been 8days since I've posted this nomination (it's currently the 26th of March) and I'm quite confident that Machoke belongs somewhere in A-. It's a premier defensive Pokemon that tends to put in work against most teams. I've used it extensively and I quite like it.

 

[Xayah]

Shiinotic C -> somewhere in Bs

Yes, I know, this is quite a big rise I am suggesting, but I feel like it is 100% justified. I've liked this Pokemon for a long time but with two very good fat Grasses in Gourgeist-XL and Tangela having incredible usage, I could never really go for it. But now that one of those has left, I feel like there is much more room for this thing to be used.

First, let me address the elephant in the room: Shiftry. Yes, many of you will draw the parallel between me beginning to use this and people using Seaking back when we had Rotom-Frost, which I considered to be unhealthy adaptation. But while yes, Shiftry was a significant portion of my motivation to put this thing on a team, it is far from the only thing. Basically, my reasoning was 'huh this looks like a Gourgeist that trades a Komala MU for a Shiftry MU and two broken moves', which I'll get into later. In addition, as you will see in the replays, I haven't yet faced a Shiftry with this and I still feel like it has more than pulled its weight. This thing is good, with or without Shiftry (though clearly better with it), and I am not just using this because I feel like I have to with Shiftry's existence.

Anyway, with that done, let's take a look at the set I've been rocking:

set

Shiinotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Strength Sap
- Giga Drain / Leech Seed
- Moonblast / Leech Seed

As probably expected, I'm running a fully physically defensive set with both of the busted moves it gets, Spore and Strength Sap. Honestly, these two just aren't really fair. Especially Strength Sap, being able to just go to full from 1 HP while also crippling your foe is actually busted. Other than Foongus and Morelull (DO NOT USE), Shiinotic is also our only bulky Spore user and, with Tangela leaving, one of very few Sleep inducers, which is also very valuable. And of course, its double STABs are pretty good too. Sure, Bronzor is annoying to it, but honestly you just Spore it and leave. I've been running it alongside Taunt Misdreavus and Shiftry, but I really don't think you have to go that far.

So, how does it actually hold up as a physical wall? Is it as good as Gourgeist-XL? Well... no, it just isn't. It doesn't quite have the stats to be that good. However, its typing is very good, seeing as how we're lacking Fairies, and Strength Sap means that if you miss the 2HKO, it's going back to full regardless of your opinion. Let's take a look at some calcs:

Calcs

252+ Atk Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 139-165 (42.9 - 50.9%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 190-225 (58.6 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Electivire Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 132-156 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Electivire Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Shiinotic: 124-148 (38.2 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 71-84 (21.9 - 26%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Golem Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 142-168 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Pinsir X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 117-138 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Pinsir X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 232-274 (71.6 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 78-94 (24 - 29%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Shiinotic: 83-99 (25.6 - 30.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Shiftry Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Shiinotic: 244-288 (75.3 - 88.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 86-104 (26.5 - 32%) -- 61.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
+4 252 Atk Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 258-306 (79.6 - 94.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Combusken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 246-290 (75.9 - 89.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Crustle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 118-139 (36.4 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Silvally-Fighting Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 51-61 (15.7 - 18.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fighting Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 102-121 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 86% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Floatzel Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 118-140 (36.4 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Floatzel Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 236-278 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Floatzel Subzero Slammer (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 218-258 (67.2 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

There you go. Every physical attacker in A and A+. And while some of these don't look impressive, they are much moreso in practice because of Strength Sap being so damn good. For example, Electivire would be able to wear down Shiinotic over time by pressuring it to recover, but when it just goes to full every time it clicks that move, that option goes out the window. Pinsir, SD Abomasnow, Golem, and even Combusken are similar, in that they really do not like having to deal with it one on one.

Now, I think I've said everything I can, because on paper, this thing is a lot less good than it is in practice. To show that off and finish this post, I've got 3 replays from a recent room tour in which I used it.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-886140447
Now, I know what you're saying. 'The only reason it survived is because it dodged a Stone Edge'. And technically, you're correct. But look at what happened after. It completely prevented EVire from doing anything until it went down and then just 1v1d SD Abomasnow, which I could've come out of with more health if I had risked Strength Sap again.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-886148605
It wasn't quite as impactful this game, but honestly that's because I decided to not predict the Z-Move. It tanked a +3 Return and just went back up to full (!), which basically just removed every bit of effectiveness from his main wallbreaker, because it was forced to burn the Z-Move on not Golem.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-886153490
And the last game, which I lose, but Shiinotic first wears down an SD Abomasnow which puts it in Shiftry range, tanks a Choice Band Komala Return to get back up to full, kills Swanna, before finally, finally being put into range to actually die to things. You can see how much work this puts in on its own. Really, I should've won this game, but I'm bad and tjay is not.

The last thing I wanna say is that Effect Spore is a hilarious ability. I think this thing deserves B, but a bit higher or lower works for me too.

 

[Apagogie]

Komala S -> A+
Komala isn't as centralizing and splashable as it used to be. Since bulky offense is the dominant playstyle, its spd set doesnt have many opportunities to be set up, is easily to be weaken and is still pretty frail at +2, losing a lot of dual against other common sweepers. Its weaknesses start to be annoying for its viability, especially its poor match up against the majority of the high ranked mon in A and A+ makes it tricky to play and not as much usable as it would like to be. Recent trends aren't favorable either, more and more fighting types are played (for example Machoke), Z-Mirror Move Swanna is very popular atm instead of special sets, Crustle SS does a big come back, we meet more no-scarf evire played with fighting coverage than before, Komala doesnt switch in on Obama specs which rises as well in popularity. Furthermore, even the departure of Tang + Vally ghost is annoying because it means more Gourgeist-Super per teams.

We have concluded few weeks ago that Komala needed more time to be adapted to the offensive meta. Things are done and the only thing we have seen is a small return in usage of the band set, a set which has as well a meh match up against bulky offenses. Komala is switched on nothing due to its poor bulk and due to an insufficient speed which doesnt allow it to RK anything a bit fast. The numerous Normal, Dark and Ground resists/immunities by team make even its wallbreaking ability not always reliable, subject to eternal 50/50. Passive teams, such as marezor, against which Komala was strong dont almost exist anymore. The match up against stall in itself is okay but without being amazing either because a lot of stalls are now proactive and run anyway still more and more avalugg to handle big physical threats. A pokemon like Beheyeem is for example a far more dangerous toy against stalls than Komala Band.


To end this, lets say that the influence that komala has on the meta is nothing comparable than one that Shiftry and Swanna have currently on it. Komala is not anymore more viable than the rest of the A+ rank. It stays a very good pokemon but it doesnt deserve to be above the others.

Rapidash A- -> A
Rapidash has done a big come back in teams. It's very good at the moment due notably to its ability to switch in on classic Shiftry sets. Due to flame body, the z-move, morning sun and wow, it deals with physical sets no matter what is the grass coverage move. It is important as well for the role compression of teams because it brings at the same time a shiftry answer and an offensive fast mon able to RK slower threats. Finally, it's also a mon which enjoys a lot the offensive meta and which shines inside. No need to explain much, its growth in usage speaks for itself.

Silvally-Dark B -> B-
Silvally Dark doesnt trap anything in the current meta. Psychic types have fallen in usage with the Shiftry presence. Only Bronzor and Beheyeem are still a bit current but the first one is trapped by magnet pull and the second often run anyway the colbur Berry. Due to Shiftry, a lot of teams run dark resists everywhere which makes its dark stab quite limited and not effective. The only utility it has currently is paradoxally to be a decent Shiftry check but Vally Fighting usually outclassed it in offering more utility thanks to its stab and its resists, notably against pinsir.

Cradily B- -> C+
Cradily struggles to find its place in the metagame. It's weak to common trends such as Abomasnow Specs, Fighting mons or even Crustle. I dont remember if i've already seen one time in any battle of tournament. It's globally the worse mon in the B- list with Dusknoir. Cradily is not as viable as Vally-Ground, Marowak, Butterfree, Rampardos, Swoobat or Jumpluff and it fits more a rank below next to Arbok, Bibarel, Ninjask or Relicanth.

Nominations I agree with
Shiftry A+ -> S

Swanna A+ -> S

Vally-Water A -> A-

Vally-Dragon A- -> A

Machoke B -> B+/A-

Regigigas B- -> C+

Avalugg C+ -> B-

Shiinotic C -> B-

 

[Ampha]

That may seem controversial to some people and to others not, but
Electivire -> S RANK
I've been saying this for a while,but Electivire really deserves this spot,since Frostom's departure Electivire got to be always incredible the way it is,Electivire is by far the best Choice scarf user in the tier which any other Scarfer has to look around for it, EQ Volt Switch Wild charge and Ice punch is annoying to switch-in plus theres the factor that it can bring Special scarf sets w flamethrower, a incredible LO breaking set and even some more niche sets like Z move,Electivire is also super splashable going from some HO teams,BOs,Balances and some other ones it can bring around, I dont know what to write more

Probopass -> C+
Probo just doesnt deserve a B- rank rn in my opinion,it's much worse than Golem at trapping Bronzor or mawile and making anything against some offenses,It also hates the current meta a lot and is way to slow to push out some trick,and again, since Frostoms departure this thing got a big nerf opposed to Electivire

and as for a personal mon i've been testing around
Hakamo-o -> B or B+
Its a pretty underrated setup sweeper atm,Drain punch + Dragon claw is difficult to stop depending if you are not running Mime/Granbull/Mawile, and its Dragon typing actually provides a lot opportunities to either Sub BU or Sub DD, while also checking some other threatning pokemon like shiftry, Komala,etc

 

[AlolanSableye21]

Hey, it's Lord Toxic, that dickhead who keeps running Stall in tournaments. I've been playing ZU for... I think a month at this point (may be five weeks), so I figured I'd throw my hat into the ring with where I agree and disagree with placements.


Agree:
Komala: S -> A+
Yea, I agree with this. It's definitely one of the stronger mons in the tier, but not as centralizing as many other mons (Shiftry and Swanna being the two I've seen suggested). Even as a Stall player, which you'd think would get fucked over most by Comatose, he's easy to wear down and switch into with a decently bulky mon.

Shiftry: A+ -> S
Aaand we have the ACTUAL strongest mon in the tier. This thing is a devastating threat to any and every playstyle, from HO to Balance to Stall, due to powerful stab; priority; a variety of boosting moves; the ability to pivot; powerful utility moves and even more. If you don't prepare for this mon when building, you're getting destroyed. Bear in mind also that Silvally's forms are rising and falling in usage almost solely according to their matchups against Shiftry (Dark, Dragon & Fighting being the best, with Water falling off the map) and you have the definition of a centralizing mon. I'm actually on the point of making a Semistall team with a 5 mon stall core and cleanup w/ Shiftry just to show off the point that it fits onto LITERALLY any team.


Disagree:
Swanna: A+ -> S
Definitely a strong mon, but once you realize what set it's running, it's very easy to counter. The Z Mirror Move set is fucked over by any foul play mon, faster offensive mons, resistances and without Rain Dance, you become painfully exposed to ANY status - be it Burn cutting your attack down, Toxic making you die in a handful of turns or Paralysis making you SO easy to kill in response. The Defog/Roost set works great against stallier teams, but you retain the previous issues of losing to faster offensive mons and dropping to status. Z Rain Dance is easily the strongest of the three main sets, due to the speed boost making you an asspain to revenge kill & the Rain Boosted Water STAB being harder to take a hit from, but Special Sponges still take it on with very little trouble. :/ A powerful mon for sure, but not a centralizing one.

Calcs

Z Mirror Move:
+2 252 Atk Swanna Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Rotom-Fan: 105-125 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Swanna Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Pyukumuku: 90-106 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 98% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers
+2 252 Atk Swanna Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 24+ Def Avalugg: 157-186 (39.8 - 47.2%) guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers
Z Rain:
252 SpA Swanna Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky in Rain: 153-181 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- 96.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers
252 SpA Swanna Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Fan: 129-153 (42.4 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Offensive Defogger:
252 SpA Life Orb Swanna Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Bronzor: 70-83 (22 - 26.1%) -- 6% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 133-157 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers

My thoughts:
Lickilicky: A- -> A
This is definitely a staple of Stall, due to bring immune to taunt and a straight up sponge, but it's also able to slot into more balanced and offensive teams, preventing set up with the likes of Dragon Tail and net surprise KOs on the physical mons it would struggle with by using Counter. It deserves to be above A- due to being significantly less niche than people seem to have been giving it credit for and due to the downswing of pokemon like Bronzor, who would essentially be able to switch in for free.

Pyukumuku: A- -> A/A+
Block and Z-Spite means this mon is able to essentially remove an enemy mon from the game the second it comes in. Unaware prevents set up being able to screw with you and even after you've run out of Spite PP, you come in and trap statused mons to die. There's very little this pokemon can't do, only truly being weak to powerful SE Stab, like LOrb Abomasnow's Wood Hammer (which I've seen exactly once across the last month or so, despite it being classed as A tier) or Specs Zebstrika. A mon with very few weaknesses, excels at its job, dents any and every team style and that's easily supported doesn't really deserve to have a - in front of it.

Altaria: A -> C+/B-
This pokemon really does VERY little without major caveats. It's a defogger, BUT it's weak to rocks. It's a set up sweeper, BUT its only decent STABs are Dragon Claw and Outrage (and there are better DDance sweepers). It's got decent special defense and Heal Bell, but there are other pokemon that does these jobs so much better, such as Lickilicky and Togetic. The only reason you would bring Alt over another mon is Perish Song, which doesn't work so well in a tier that lacks decent Spikers outside of Crustle (who would be a HO Suicide lead), so it's hard to rack up damage with hazards. This mon is niche as hell and that Niche isn't especially effective.

Stunfisk: C -> B/B+
This pokemon is niche, not gonna lie, but that it does it damn well. It takes Electric, Rock and Flying attacks like nobody's business and doesn't have any problem staying in on a scald or two to Toxic an enemy wall. Its Bulk combined with the ability to set up with Rocks and get off powerful Earth Powers on mons that don't resist it - such as Electivire/Zebstrika/Rapidash/Muk/Silvally/Mareanie, and even a few who DO - such as Pinsir/Komala (assuming no Wood Hammer - scout this with Protect). It shouldn't be considered for EVERY team, but when it fits your team, it will excel for you.


I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts.