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NOC Smallstreet Mafia v2 Won by the Mafia (Clouds, Ehmcee, Dead By Daylight, Duskfall98)

like can you gain info from it, sure absolutely, because i don't think mafia would go more than say, -30 credits or so in debt. so you can start to piece together roles in a universe where a recruit seems probable. i think a lot of us, myself included, are just assuming they went recruit because who wouldn't want a fourth teammate. but we for sure shouldn't rule out a 3P mafia team that knew this was exactly the sentiment people would have or even could be fueling the idea of in thread for that very reason. i looked back at the first version of this game, and they chose pretty unpredictable roles and wound up winning based off of that alone. we should be focusing more on the players themselves than, mechanical aspects can just be secondary supporting evidence to start composing teams that can & can't work based on credit usage
 
Clouds said:
like can you gain info from it, sure absolutely, because i don't think mafia would go more than say, -30 credits or so in debt. so you can start to piece together roles in a universe where a recruit seems probable. i think a lot of us, myself included, are just assuming they went recruit because who wouldn't want a fourth teammate. but we for sure shouldn't rule out a 3P mafia team that knew this was exactly the sentiment people would have or even could be fueling the idea of in thread for that very reason. i looked back at the first version of this game, and they chose pretty unpredictable roles and wound up winning based off of that alone. we should be focusing more on the players themselves than, mechanical aspects can just be secondary supporting evidence to start composing teams that can & can't work based on credit usage
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Tbh, I would mostly rule out 3 ppl, cuz they didn't pick vengeful or commuter
 
Lechen said:
Tbh, I would mostly rule out 3 ppl, cuz they didn't pick vengeful or commuter
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Actually, after mulling it over a bit, I think 3 ppl is still very possible. Imo, the worst possible scenario rn imo, is mafia having 3 ppl with doublevoter and one tracker and one healer and a bunch of credits, which could be used theoretically to rb me tn and net them another kill. I think that'd really unlikely, but worth thought.
 
StupidFlandrs48 said:
Why is Neon suddenly a tastier vote? Why nothing about Lechen after you were just involved in that convo for a moment a bit ago?
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lechen was like, my top townread when i'd left during D1. what i said stands true that i'm concerned about how stagnant their view is here and how it's problematic that they're gunning for votes specifically based on roles given that it's an easy branch to cling to, but it's hard for me to just drop someone i was townreading earlier into the ocean like that without several red flags leading up to it. healer role being mafia would obviously check out, i'm not ignoring that either, that's not helping ease the nerves here. let me collect my thoughts on them more first, i've seen your posts too

neon isn't because he's done anything explicitly super scummy but because i'd be surprised if there wasn't a lurker scum or two in this team and he fits the bill better than most do. i was considering saber for this as well, but i think he fits strictly into 3P teams, so it's more conditional
 
Clouds said:
you know you get 1 healer minimum, choosing none is one of the most -ev plays mafia can make
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IDK, Id value tracker every time. And mafia can just block a healer if needed.
StupidFlandrs48 said:
One of those people (clouds, ecat, AP) has gotta be scum, leaning toward it being ecat
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Naw, we vibing. I was excited to play with m2h this game. And I was nervous he was mafia based on early posting. The fact I lurked EOD was bad. We just missed each other feels vad man.

ImaginaryNeon said:
apricity had one post about Flandrs I kinda felt I was able to kinda see.
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I saw that too. I think its a good endorsement.
 
i also reread that town of salem themed game overnight that you guys played here, since some of the players here were on the mafia team there

flandrs was actually pretty different in that game than here but not sure if that was chalked up to relative inactivity there or something. pulsar it was harder to spot differences for, neon is neon, i'm definitely leaving someone out of this but clearly there wasn't anything else alarming enough then

do any of you guys play town of salem 2? if so i'd be down to run up games sometime in the future. i played multiple ranked seasons of the original and was pretty involved in the community for a while, been trying out 2 more recently to see if it'll grow on me more
 
Clouds said:
i'm concerned about how stagnant their view is here and how it's problematic that they're gunning for votes specifically based on roles given that it's an easy branch to cling to,
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Not everyone needs to reset every day phase. Some people are like that. And isnt it expected as a baseline behavior that people WILL continue their previous pushes
 
Clouds said:
i also reread that town of salem themed game overnight that you guys played here, since some of the players here were on the mafia team there

flandrs was actually pretty different in that game than here but not sure if that was chalked up to relative inactivity there or something. pulsar it was harder to spot differences for, neon is neon, i'm definitely leaving someone out of this but clearly there wasn't anything else alarming enough then

do any of you guys play town of salem 2? if so i'd be down to run up games sometime in the future. i played multiple ranked seasons of the original and was pretty involved in the community for a while, been trying out 2 more recently to see if it'll grow on me more
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Haven't played Town of Salem before, but my friends have played it before and I spent hours looking at the wiki prepping for that game and it looks interesting
 
Clouds said:
i also reread that town of salem themed game overnight that you guys played here, since some of the players here were on the mafia team there

flandrs was actually pretty different in that game than here but not sure if that was chalked up to relative inactivity there or something. pulsar it was harder to spot differences for, neon is neon, i'm definitely leaving someone out of this but clearly there wasn't anything else alarming enough then

do any of you guys play town of salem 2? if so i'd be down to run up games sometime in the future. i played multiple ranked seasons of the original and was pretty involved in the community for a while, been trying out 2 more recently to see if it'll grow on me more
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Sounds like a fun new thing to branch out with. Happy to take the plunge if we get a group together!
 
Lechen said:
Actually, after mulling it over a bit, I think 3 ppl is still very possible. Imo, the worst possible scenario rn imo, is mafia having 3 ppl with doublevoter and one tracker and one healer and a bunch of credits, which could be used theoretically to rb me tn and net them another kill. I think that'd really unlikely, but worth thought.
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yeah, i don't even think that's an outlandish composition. what i'm saying is that because town's tendency is small street is to try to mech solve certain aspects of the game, the more unpredictable the team composition, the more longevity mafia has when it comes to votes. the faults here are that a) this requires a minimum of 1 person on the mafia team that'd be thinking like this and b) there's a certain threshold where things are definitely mech solveable to an extent, like i've never seen anyone go more than the aforementioned 30 credits in debt and that would be hard to rebound from. so you can clear out certain possibilities as you go if say, doublevoter was to flip mafia or something

what do you think of saber's slot individually, ignoring their role?
 
StupidFlandrs48 said:
Strangely hyperbolic response to having exactly one (1) vote on you, which I haven't even cast with the intention of fully pushing a lynch.

There is no such thing as "objectively" better vote targets outside of redchecks. As for why I'd bother with you, you're already answering the question for me.
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NGL, I really dont get this push on Lechen. Yoy think DBD is scum. Lechen thinks DBD is scum. What is the premise of your read on Lechen here? I dont mind putting pressure on slots which are townread. But DBD IS an objectively good lynch based on the setup. It is possible for objectively good votes based on setup to be true. If you disagree about it in this case then sure but I think weve been over why PV is fine to vote off compared to, for instance, vengeful.
 
AngryPidgeon said:
And isnt it expected as a baseline behavior that people WILL continue their previous pushes
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sure, but there's a major difference between continuing previous pushes and sticking to a push simply because "pure vanilla has to be mafia here" with pretty much zero regard for content from dbd's slot itself. if it was a process of elimination vote and not a scumread then it's a different story, but if you consider a t!dbd universe and how mafia may handle that knowing they'd be one of the most viable misflips today, that's a pretty easy route to take. i'm sure you can tell i'm viewing this from a tinted lens here, but i'm surprised you aren't higher on those being tvt wagons...
 
AngryPidgeon said:
NGL, I really dont get this push on Lechen. Yoy think DBD is scum. Lechen thinks DBD is scum. What is the premise of your read on Lechen here? I dont mind putting pressure on slots which are townread. But DBD IS an objectively good lynch based on the setup. It is possible for objectively good votes based on setup to be true. If you disagree about it in this case then sure but I think weve been over why PV is fine to vote off compared to, for instance, vengeful.
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PV vote is still fine but there's always the WIFOM element and the idea that town could be doing better than that and finding their own leads. Lechen rings enough bells when I actually look at him that I'm willing to case him in a wallpost, and that doesn't happen all the time. Doesn't always mean I'm right but hey, anyone who's played PMD will know I'm more than find with throwing in order to win :zonger:
 
AngryPidgeon said:
NGL, I really dont get this push on Lechen. Yoy think DBD is scum. Lechen thinks DBD is scum. What is the premise of your read on Lechen here? I dont mind putting pressure on slots which are townread. But DBD IS an objectively good lynch based on the setup. It is possible for objectively good votes based on setup to be true. If you disagree about it in this case then sure but I think weve been over why PV is fine to vote off compared to, for instance, vengeful.
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this is a good point though, even if you're scumreading both of them StupidFlandrs48, they just don't work as a team. you've considered that i hope yeah? if dbd flipped mafia i'd feel pretty good about lechen and if lechen flipped mafia then i'd near clear dbd given the strength of the push

i can't understate how lame it would be if that was a bus play. in fact i'm sure that's not what happened here, i'd place $$ on it
 
also yeah, let's say dbd goes over and they're mafia -- where next? i think duskfall could still be mafia, alice is a candidate, neon also

maybe mafia would at least try to put 1 on the dbd wagon given that it looked like he was going to go over for quite a while

dbd votes: lechen, angrypigeon, NE, HH, m2h
m2h votes: clouds, duskfall98, dbd, neon, skip, flanders, pulsar
saber votes: saber
not voting: Alice, Ehmcee, ECat, apricity

if dbd isn't mafia, what's the contingency plan? i might be fine letting the vote go through if we're not just directionless if it's a miss
 
also, part of why i'm kinda liking a duskfall vote is because he can work with dbd as mafia or, in the scenario that i think is more likely now, a dbd town universe where he voted the bigger takeout of the two wagons here. it's not fair for me to think this is just a dusk thing, i just have high expectations for him. looks like he may have missed crucial times of the day yesterday due to timezone as well so i don't wanna harp on this if he just wasn't on for it. still, a vote is a vote and i'm not tracking the M2H progression to the level that i feel comfortable with where he ended up yet

i'm typically averse to a dusk vote in the average game when i can avoid it, because we work well together when we're both town and i know he comes in clutch in the late-game. it takes genuine concern for me to lay a vote down on him, so this isn't a shot in the dark and i have reasons i feel are solid for it right now. we can see where things go when he's back, that's about all i'll say on him for now so that i can dive more into other slots that i haven't thought about much as of late, like electricitycat, nightemerald, and even ehmcee

i'll work towards a solidifed readslist tomorrow night, i'm about halfway there but getting tired. weekday activity will be limited so i'll make the most of the night hours and hopefully we can get a legitimate towncore formed today either with the help of massclaim or without. night!
 
StupidFlandrs48 said:
I think scum recruiting and bussing PV day 1 isn't a bad strategy for a more aggressive scumteam, if they feel like they have good enough players to push that D1 towncred advantage through future days. Lots of WIFOM involved here.
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I wouldnt recuit a 4th just to bus D1. But my scumgame is high el
StupidFlandrs48 said:
Overreacting to minimal pressure and ignoring the substantive reasons for sus on your slot reads like a classic case of scum being frustrated at suddenly getting pressured or caught for the wrong reasons. It doesn't read at all to me like indignant town who genuinely thinks I have better things to be doing, especially with the "3 objectively better people" comment which strikes me as informed language.
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Hmm ya ok but you are scumreading DBD heavily and then now voting Lechen because lol wifom s/s push onto DBD D1. And also AP bissed dbd too lol
 
Clouds said:
this is a good point though, even if you're scumreading both of them StupidFlandrs48, they just don't work as a team. you've considered that i hope yeah? if dbd flipped mafia i'd feel pretty good about lechen and if lechen flipped mafia then i'd near clear dbd given the strength of the push

i can't understate how lame it would be if that was a bus play. in fact i'm sure that's not what happened here, i'd place $$ on it
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Recruit + faith healer + public vanilla + something else seems perfectly feasible to me, I fail to see how a bus is out of the question. And to your point, Lechen fits perfectly as the scum on the DBD wagon. I don't really see any thread interactions that contradict the DBD-Lechen s/s idea either, probably because DBD's content has been so sparse.
 
AngryPidgeon said:
I wouldnt recuit a 4th just to bus D1. But my scumgame is high el

Hmm ya ok but you are scumreading DBD heavily and then now voting Lechen because lol wifom s/s push onto DBD D1. And also AP bissed dbd too lol
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If you make one more reference to elo ratings in a fucking smogon mafia game I will (insert generically unpleasant thing here) you

My argument doesn't really care if you were scum bussing or not, I've disliked one recent wallpost you made and now you've got the overly defensive thing going as well.
 
StupidFlandrs48 said:
If you make one more reference to elo ratings in a fucking smogon mafia game I will (insert generically unpleasant thing here) you

My argument doesn't really care if you were scum bussing or not, I've disliked one recent wallpost you made and now you've got the overly defensive thing going as well.
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Tbh I think you are reading way too much into being overdefensive
 
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