Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - November 2008

xxflyingsolo07xx said:
Hows OU working out for you?
And I havent seen you on the Uber ladder EVER without "your" famous all star BP Mew team.

And I never said it was illegitimate, I was just saying that its an easy combo that shouldnt see play but unfortunately does.
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Well, I'm at 1530 right now, but seem to have trouble getting past that. Been thinking about trying totally different teams. And I actually stopped playing ubers while focusing on OU, but before I decided to try and conquer OU, I did come up with a team that involved Latias and Darkrai, but decided I wanted a different challenge since I had already accomplished being #1 in Ubers. Maybe I'll try for #1 again some day.

Why are you putting quotes around "your"? It is mine, I may have taken some cues from Train Man's old team (like I said, it started off as an exact clone and I changed it to how I liked it), but they're played completely differently.

"Shouldn't see play"? You play Pokemon to win, stop playing with some made-up rule in your head about how people shouldn't be using BP Mew. There's absolutely no reason anyone shouldn't use a technique that's within the rules and helps you to win games, and it offends me that you choose to continue to bash me and my tactics A WHOLE MONTH AFTER I stopped regularly trying to maintain my Uber rating.
 
Jonathan said:
Right, Platinum too I forgot to mention that. But the tests are what get on my nerves, they're gonna delay a stable metagame for a very long time considering how many things are on the list.
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Expect more changes when/if GSC remakes come out, along with any other games. My guess is that these changes won't stop until 5th gen comes out. >_>
 
I see that we have a lot of suspects, which will be there everytime, so I would suggest a ladder where Garchomp, Latios, Latias, Mew, Skymin, Manaphy, Wobbuffet are allowed. I think that they balance each others.
 
SO I finally had a look here, and see that Heatran/Scizor/Salamence are properly on top. I guess there's a reason here.

All have a double weakness: Scizor's fire is covered by Heatran, Mence covers Heatran's ground weak while both steels cover Mence's icy flaw.

So we just need that EQ/FB/CC/HP Ice MixApe to counter the three then.
 
MythTrainerInfinity said:
These tests is what is increasing interest in these metagames. If there was absolutely no controversy over anything would this game be as popular or as interesting?
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Um, sure it would be. The same way it was plenty interesting from early DP until this September when everything changed. Sure, Deoxys and Wobbuffet disrupted the flow a little, but Wobbuffet was hardly ever used because many people were so repulsed by him, and Deoxys didn't really start having a major impact on the metagame until August. Actually I take that back, Deoxys changed everything because of how fast it was, but still, at least the metagame settled down pretty soon after it was implemented because we didn't add a bunch of stuff after it.

I'm not opposed to the idea of adding new things to the metagame, I just don't like the fact that it's happening over such a long period of time. And frankly I think the whole testing thing is getting a bit ridiculous. In Advance there was only really question of Celebi being Uber, but this generation, because we have such accurate statistics to show usage and centralization, it's very easy for people to claim something is Uber or should be tested. I bet if we didn't have statistics to back up just how centralizing Garchomp was, there's a good chance it would never have gotten banned. Simply because we'd have no clear evidence as to how overcentralizing it was. I bet if we had such statistics in Advance we'd have people similarly claiming how over centralizing Bliss/Skarm/Tyranitar/whatever were, and claiming they should be tested. Note that I'm not arguing Garchomp should be OU, or that the above three Pokes should have been Uber in Advance.

I'm just rambling on here, but I guess my point is that while it is awesome we have such accurate and useful statistics nowadays, a downside is that many more people now question the eligibility of certain Pokemon and moves due to the data we have, which ultimately leaves us with an unstable metagame because of all the testing that ensues.
 
Scizor at #1 doesn't surprise me at all...

Gallade dropped below the #50 cutoff...

Articuno is now UU.
November shifted!
 
Jonathan said:
I'm just rambling on here, but I guess my point is that while it is awesome we have such accurate and useful statistics nowadays, a downside is that many more people now question the eligibility of certain Pokemon and moves due to the data we have, which ultimately leaves us with an unstable metagame because of all the testing that ensues.
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But would you rather we had zero statistics, no testing, and a metagame with Garchomp, no chance for Lati@s, Mew, Manaphy, or Skymin? I'd rather see all the data and have an "unstable" metagame, myself. I feel like having all these statistics is part of what makes everything so variable. People see what works and what doesn't, adapt, and the top threats become countered easily enough that they fall back down again. If someone were to say in ADV that "well the metagame right now is full of stall..." they would have no way to back that up, except for however many battles they've experienced. Now we have a much better idea of what the metagame's like, and consciousness of the metagame allows it to be much more variable, and in my opinion much more interesting.
 
scorchedsky said:
But would you rather we had zero statistics, no testing, and a metagame with Garchomp, no chance for Lati@s, Mew, Manaphy, or Skymin? I'd rather see all the data and have an "unstable" metagame, myself. I feel like having all these statistics is part of what makes everything so variable. People see what works and what doesn't, adapt, and the top threats become countered easily enough that they fall back down again. If someone were to say in ADV that "well the metagame right now is full of stall..." they would have no way to back that up, except for however many battles they've experienced. Now we have a much better idea of what the metagame's like, and consciousness of the metagame allows it to be much more variable, and in my opinion much more interesting.
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Jonathan said:
but I guess my point is that while it is awesome we have such accurate and useful statistics nowadays, a downside is that many more people now question the eligibility of certain Pokemon and moves due to the data we have, which ultimately leaves us with an unstable metagame because of all the testing that ensues.
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Maybe I didn't stress it enough, but I definitely think the statistics are great to have, for all the reasons you mentioned. I'm just pointing out a downside to having such great statistics, namely that the metagame is rather unstable because of all the testing that is brought about largely because of statistics. Personally, and I'm sure everyone would agree, the benefits to statistics definitely outweigh the disadvantages.

In answer to your question as for what I'd prefer, I don't see why we don't just test everything at once and that way be done with it in one go.
 
Jonathan said:
Maybe I didn't stress it enough, but I definitely think the statistics are great to have, for all the reasons you mentioned. I'm just pointing out a downside to having such great statistics, namely that the metagame is rather unstable because of all the testing that is brought about largely because of statistics. Personally, and I'm sure everyone would agree, the benefits to statistics definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
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The test are not brought about by statistics per se. They are tested because of the perceived affect they have on the metagame. In the cases of Lati@s and Manaphy (and maybe Mew, but very doubtful), they are being tested because they were not given a proper chance in OU with the current conditions, and as such their current status is purely subjective.

And might I ask how the metagame is unstable? It's overall quite stable right now.
 
Jonathan said:
In answer to your question as for what I'd prefer, I don't see why we don't just test everything at once and that way be done with it in one go.
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That's what I would support if we started with an entirely fresh metagame...but since we've been playing DP for over a year now, I guess that's why we're trying to get a feel for each suspect in isolation before throwing them all back in. While Stage 3 is testing every suspect in one go, it's still a ways off. The problem with allowing everything in one shot is that it could lead to a slippery slope of banning, or something. Banning Manaphy might make Garchomp too powerful, while banning Garchomp might make Lati@s too powerful, so banning Manaphy would eventually lead to 4 bans (this is pure theory). So that's why we test each in isolation first, I suppose.
 
Tleilax said:
The test are not brought about by statistics per se. They are tested because of the perceived affect they have on the metagame. In the cases of Lati@s and Manaphy (and maybe Mew, but very doubtful), they are being tested because they were not given a proper chance in OU with the current conditions, and as such their current status is purely subjective.

And might I ask how the metagame is unstable? It's overall quite stable right now.
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Well, Manaphy might not have had a chance in Platinum (neither did garchomp for that matter), but it DID get quite a bit of play-time at the start of DP. Because it was another straight-100 like Jirachi and Celebi, we actually gave it a shot you know.
 
Tleilax, when I say the current metagame is unstable, I don't mean it is broken, but that it fluctuates so much from month to month.
 
Yay @Empoleon!
People really should use this steel penguin more, it has amazing synergy with Gliscor (AMAZING). I really recommend everyone try using this alongside Gliscor, you will not be disappointed. He has so much potential, with SR, SD, Aqua Ring (1337), Yawn, etc.
 
Kitamerby said:
| 105 | Marowak | 3832 |

LOL.
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Marowak can actually be quite useful, just a little speed BPing and it becomes a machine.

TehPiplupMan said:
Yay @Empoleon!
People really should use this steel penguin more, it has amazing synergy with Gliscor (AMAZING). I really recommend everyone try using this alongside Gliscor, you will not be disappointed. He has so much potential, with SR, SD, Aqua Ring (1337), Yawn, etc.
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Yes I know, it doesn't actually need to be alongside Gliscor to work well. I've used it with Salamence which works pretty well.
 
SkarmBlissFTW said:
I guess it is because some coughnoobscough just have to use Bulbasaur and stuff like that to get them on the list.
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LOL.
I am so sorry, I made a team and was too lazy to make 6 pokemons, so i made 5 standards and left bulbasaur with 4 random moves as the lead. LOL

465 | Sentret | 1 |
OMFG! Is every standard-available pokemon used in standard?
 
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