Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - September 2009

The ladder must be full of Team of Torment copiers.
I don't think so, I have seen few TT's, and the ones I have seen have had improper/no support.

I have Roserade/TormentTran, and it really thrives under toxic spikes.
I did not copy the team of Torment, however.
the only Pokemon we share are Heatran and Rotom-H.
(and to tell the truth, I hadn't read that RMT until just now XD)
 
Perhaps it's time to review Garchomp again. Even ignoring the 32% mark in OU, it is coming close to outnumbering Garchomp 2 to 1 in Ubers.
 
Perhaps it's time to review Scizor again. Even ignoring the 32% mark in OU, it is coming close to outnumbering Garchomp 2 to 1 in Ubers.
Is this how it should have read? It would make more sense if so, but I don't necessarily agree with the principle behind the statement.
 
Perhaps it's time to review Garchomp again. Even ignoring the 32% mark in OU, it is coming close to outnumbering Garchomp 2 to 1 in Ubers.
Mmm...
While it is true that Scizor is being used a lot, I wouldn't say it is broken as Garchomp was once considered. Hmmm...
 
Indeed. How much something is used is totally irrelevant. What matters is if it can be stopped through reasonable methods or not, and as Scizor can, I see no reason to review it.
 
Perhaps it's time to review Garchomp again. Even ignoring the 32% mark in OU, it is coming close to outnumbering Garchomp 2 to 1 in Ubers.
How something does in Ubers is irrelevant to its status as Standard or not. Deoxys is almost completely outclassed in Ubers (admit it, Theorymon: except for the hyperspecialized sets that you've doctored, it's an inferior Deoxys-A), and therefore it sees little use. But it would completely destroy Standard, forcing Scizor use to go through the roof, and even then, if it had a Focus Sash or Substitute, Scizor would still lose. Deoxys is obviously Uber, and has never been called as a Suspect as a result. Besides, Garchomp is being reviewed again already in 3-2 as soon as the ladder is up again.
 
User deluge is wise beyond his join date but I didn't have any other reason to post last night.
*looks at join date*

That may be but his communication was still a vague enough version of his real point that it offended people it wasn't meant to offend, which I'm sure Jumpman and others can attest to lol.

I'm not that in the loop (i.e. I'm not on #stark at all; I've been meaning to visit at least but various distractions/work have delayed this) but I thought the paragraph exemption was a one-time thing for Stage 3 Round 1 to get a good sense of all five suspects...? I suppose Garchomp can always just be tested again in "isolation" in whatever Stage 3 produces.
 
Wow, these are absolutely great

they help so much in team building

someone could look at and study those detailed statistics all day!
 
| Forretress | Move | Spikes | 61.4 |
| Forretress | Move | Explosion | 56.7 |
| Forretress | Move | Toxic Spikes | 52.6 |
| Forretress | Move | Gyro Ball | 43.4 |
| Forretress | Move | Stealth Rock | 34.0 |
| Forretress | Move | Payback | 24.5 |
| Forretress | Move | Earthquake | 16.8 |
| Forretress | Move | Rest | 5.9 |
| Forretress | Move | Other (9) | < 3.4 |
I find your lack of screens disturbing. Reflect and Light Screen can really help a stall team set up or phaze, and they should be used more on Forry IMO. Also, Gyro Ball is an antiquated move on Forry. I find it surprising that people still use it over Payback and Earthquake. Go ahead and use the move, but Gyro Ball will come back to bite you in the balls when you find that its useless and you could really have used something else in its place. If the only reason to use a move is STAB, then its time to find another move.

| Heatran | Attack EV | Max | 1.1 |
What the hell...
 

Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
I find your lack of screens disturbing. Reflect and Light Screen can really help a stall team set up or phaze, and they should be used more on Forry IMO. Also, Gyro Ball is an antiquated move on Forry. I find it surprising that people still use it over Payback and Earthquake. Go ahead and use the move, but Gyro Ball will come back to bite you in the balls when you find that its useless and you could really have used something else in its place. If the only reason to use a move is STAB, then its time to find another move.
Payback's only use is to deter Rotom and friends as Rapid Spin support, which Forretress doesn't have to do. You need max SpD to barely survive Magnezone HP Fire at full health and take it down with you using Earthquake. EQ doesn't see much use outside of that, even then only with a particular EV spread (max SpD) and Magnezone without Magnet Rise; you're better off using Shed Shell to get away.

Gyro Ball is significantly stronger than anything else Forretress can do to plenty of fast pokemon, like Roserade, Weavile, possibly some others if you can avoid their Fire move. (Maybe Salamence is locked into Outrage or whatever.) On a standard Payback / Rapid Spin / Spikes set, it's a perfectly good filler move.
 
Perhaps it's time to review Garchomp again. Even ignoring the 32% mark in OU, it is coming close to outnumbering Garchomp 2 to 1 in Ubers.
One of the problems with bringing garchomp back is it would up scizor use even more, because CB BP is a fairly good counter to it in the same way scizor is a fairly good counter to mence locked in outrage.
 
Payback's only use is to deter Rotom and friends as Rapid Spin support, which Forretress doesn't have to do. You need max SpD to barely survive Magnezone HP Fire at full health and take it down with you using Earthquake. EQ doesn't see much use outside of that, even then only with a particular EV spread (max SpD) and Magnezone without Magnet Rise; you're better off using Shed Shell to get away.

Gyro Ball is significantly stronger than anything else Forretress can do to plenty of fast pokemon, like Roserade, Weavile, possibly some others if you can avoid their Fire move. (Maybe Salamence is locked into Outrage or whatever.) On a standard Payback / Rapid Spin / Spikes set, it's a perfectly good filler move.
Earthquake can be useful to strike Lucario, Heatran, and Infernape on the switch-in. Many people, counting on you only to have Payback, will try to come in on you to set up or kill you, and Earthquake can quickly turn the tables on them.

Weavile is so rare that I'd rather avoid having a move for it. Against Roserade, its a better strategy to use Payback once and spam Rapid Spin, which is possible due to the massive PP of the move. Against a Salamence locked into Outrage, well, no arguments here. Still, though, Gyro Ball gets quite poor coverage in OU due to all the Steels, which goes back to my point that it is an antiquated move from a metagame not so dominated by Steels.
 
Just, a little thing I noticed. In every tier, the most used Pokemon is Steel type. In OU, it's Scizor, UU is Registeel and NU is Aggron (although Aggron is UU now).
 
Is this how it should have read? It would make more sense if so, but I don't necessarily agree with the principle behind the statement.
No, I think Scizor is an excellent Pokemon in that it performs a duty that no other Pokemon can.

Mmm...
While it is true that Scizor is being used a lot, I wouldn't say it is broken as Garchomp was once considered. Hmmm...
I'm not so sure it would function the same in our updated environment. For example, I could very well see Garchomp using Haban Berry over Yache Berry with the addition of Latias to OU.

How something does in Ubers is irrelevant to its status as Standard or not.
You're right, that comparison was a poor choice. My apologies.

One of the problems with bringing garchomp back is it would up scizor use even more, because CB BP is a fairly good counter to it in the same way scizor is a fairly good counter to mence locked in outrage.
On paper, I think you're right. But I also think things like DD Mence and Latias would even that out. I guess it is a moot point, as neither of us have any objective basis.

I was not expecting so many replies to my small post, but I really feel that Garchomp might have a better place in OU now than it did before. That said, I'm very excited at the prospect of Garchomp on the Suspect Ladder again.
 

Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
Nobody who voted Garchomp Uber the first time is going to change their mind after continuing to play with it after two of its checks got removed from the Suspect ladder. I better get ready to put user Free Garchomp on the top of the leaderboard. :/
 
Nobody who voted Garchomp Uber the first time is going to change their mind after continuing to play with it after two of its checks got removed from the Suspect ladder. I better get ready to put user Free Garchomp on the top of the leaderboard. :/
Is Latias not being tested? It appears it is, according to the sticky...
 

Mario With Lasers

Self-proclaimed NERFED king
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Nobody who voted Garchomp Uber the first time is going to change their mind after continuing to play with it after two of its checks got removed from the Suspect ladder. I better get ready to put user Free Garchomp on the top of the leaderboard. :/
What will that prove? That you don't absolutely need Garchomp to be #1 on the ladder?
 
I think we can assume garchomp is certainly not as broken now. It has to pick between yache and haban berry now, since either way it's getting taken out by latias/scarf flygon(what I see most flygons running) or bulky waters. You wouldn't know what it is carrying though, if it is even carrying a berry at all. I wouldn't be against it being back into OU, but there is reasoning behind it staying in ubers.
 
Thanks a bunch Doug, some quite intersting changes.
But Alakzam in UU? That would just mean that every UU player uses it like crazy, it gets moved up to BL and then no-one uses it anywhere. Come on guys, try not to let one of the early greats fall in to decline...
 

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