Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: August 2015

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If I were a moderator, I'd ban you for shitposting right now. Leave Zapdos alone, it's perfectly fine in OU.

Also, NU is just trolling the PU tier rn. Seriously, stop taking all the good stuff!
don't know why your complaining if zapdos dropped to UU, you would still be able to use it in OU.

I predict if Sylveon does drop to UU and stay (it'll prob go to BL tbh) than florges will drop to RU, aromatisse will drop to NU, and grandbull would drop to PU

The Domino Effect :O

NU low ladder, i beg of you to stop using muk and mantine.......Please....I feel bad for PU:[
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Nah I'm not sure if Sylveon falling to UU would have that drastic of an effect on the tiers. It really wouldn't be that interesting of a dropdown, even though it is a good Pokemon. All it is is basically a better Florges with its Cleric set, and maybe the Specs set will be unique but not that interesting (though a new Mence+Hydra check would be really cool). It will for sure completely outclass Florges as a cleric (it was proven in early XY that Florges is completely and utterly outclassed by Sylveon), though the CM+Synthesis set may still allow Florges to hold on to some viability in UU since that's basically one thing that Florges can do that Sylveon can't (though at the same time, in a Sylveon UU, CM Florges would be the flower's only set). Even if Florges does fall to RU, I don't think it will be that impressive down there either, as again, the CM set is really the only thing that makes Florges particularly good in my opinion. It's really not that impressive as a cleric at all, the only reason it's a good cleric over Aromatisse in UU is because Mega Blastoise and Hydreigon are so damn common there. Otherwise, Aroma will actually be the one giving Florges competition as a cleric in RU, as beyond maybe Florges having so much bulk to stomach something like Exploud's Boomburst, Aroma is the superior cleric the majority of the time. It has more bulk where it counts (Fairy is better as a physically defensive type), has Aroma Veil which makes it immune to Taunt and Encore, and it has quite a bit more HP which make its Wishes considerably larger. Granbull and Aromatisse are also perfectly capable of coexisting in a same tier, they're both viable in UU, and Granbull is viable in RU as well.

So in short, even if Sylveon does somehow end up making Florges completely useless, it won't have much of an effect on Aroma and Granbull's tiers as Florges isn't really very superior to Aromatisse at all either (and tbh Aroma is a better cleric than Florg), and Granbull is distinguishable enough from the others that it'll probably do just fine. I guess Granbull might still end up dropping to PU if only because it kind of sucks in NU anyways, but whatever lol. I mean yeah Aroma's usage will drop some since Florges would be a new Fairy in there but yeah. Sure Florges would be good in RU because CM+Synthesis would be a neat win condition for bulkier teams but I don't think it will drop Aroma out of RU entirely...

Okay I think I've done a lot of rambling here...but yeah basically I don't think Sylveon falling would have that drastic an impact on the tiers, aside from merely dropping Florges down potentially, but CM+Synthesis might allow Florges to hold on. That being said, I would totally love to have Sylveon in UU, as that would finally give me a place to use the thing.
 

Martin

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Dear UU,

Stop using Espeon.

Thank you!
=============================
As an aside, I think that Florges has the potential to drop to NU if Sylveon drops to UU on the basis that it is just faces so much competition for a slot in RU (its outclassed as a cleric by Aromatisse) while being almost completely outclassed by Sylveon in UU (hell, CM Sylve is better a lot of the time even without Synthesis as it is noticably more powerful due to Pixilate while also being able to BP away its boosts v.s. anything that walls it and having access to Wish(+potentially protect) to achieve the same kind of thing as Synthesis).
 
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Megazard

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PU Leader
Dear UU,

Stop using Espeon.

Thank you!
=============================
As an aside, I think that Florges has the potential to drop to NU if Sylveon drops to UU on the basis that it is just faces so much competition for a slot in RU (its outclassed as a cleric by Aromatisse) while being almost completely outclassed by Sylveon in UU (hell, CM Sylve is better a lot of the time even without Synthesis as it is noticably more powerful due to Pixilate while also being able to BP away its boosts v.s. anything that walls it and having access to Wish(+potentially protect) to achieve the same kind of thing as Synthesis).
If it was outclassed by aromatisse then it'd be ru and aroma would be uu. It's not like aroma isn't used in uu already either
 

Martin

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If it was outclassed by aromatisse then it'd be ru and aroma would be uu. It's not like aroma isn't used in uu already either
IK, but as a cleric it is mostly outclassed by aroma anyway. What is keeping it in UU is really its CM set, which is why I said. While it is debatable about NU, I could see it potentially happening, depending on how kind RU is to CM Florges.
 
IK, but as a cleric it is mostly outclassed by aroma anyway. What is keeping it in UU is really its CM set, which is why I said. While it is debatable about NU, I could see it potentially happening, depending on how kind RU is to CM Florges.
Im pretty sure you have that backwards, as Cleric Florges nearly outclasses cleric Aromatisse, and is the set that makes Florges A rank in UU's viability rankings, while Aroma is B or B-, if its cleric set was outclassed, Aroma would be UU and florges would have left UU a long time ago.
 

Merritt

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Didn't ScraftyIsTheBest go over this the post right before all this?

Even if Florges does fall to RU, I don't think it will be that impressive down there either, as again, the CM set is really the only thing that makes Florges particularly good in my opinion. It's really not that impressive as a cleric at all, the only reason it's a good cleric over Aromatisse in UU is because Mega Blastoise and Hydreigon are so damn common there. Otherwise, Aroma will actually be the one giving Florges competition as a cleric in RU, as beyond maybe Florges having so much bulk to stomach something like Exploud's Boomburst, Aroma is the superior cleric the majority of the time. It has more bulk where it counts (Fairy is better as a physically defensive type), has Aroma Veil which makes it immune to Taunt and Encore, and it has quite a bit more HP which make its Wishes considerably larger.
 
Dear UU,

Stop using Espeon.

Thank you!
I don't want to come off as rude since you're getting picked on enough in this thread as it is, but I'd like to mention that Espeon's actually way better than it used to be, because Zam is gone and people have discovered what its good sets are (the ones that give it a respectable niche over Azelf/Reuniclus). In fact, recent discussion in the UU viability rankings indicate that it'll probably be bumped up to B rank (from C rank). Espeon no longer deserves to drop from UU.
 
I can't think of a better thread to post about this, so please move this post if it isn't the right thread.

About the "OU only when combining Mega and non-Mega usage" thing in the PS teambuilder, is it based on three-months usage? Because I was checking the moveset usage and Mega Gyarados has more usage than Gyarados this month, yet it's listed under this "combined usage" limbo thing, while vanilla Gyarados is listed under standard OU. The same applies to Mega Abomasnow, which had significantly more usage than its regular form, but both are listed under "combined usage".

Zarel Antar
 
don't know why your complaining if zapdos dropped to UU, you would still be able to use it in OU.

I predict if Sylveon does drop to UU and stay (it'll prob go to BL tbh) than florges will drop to RU, aromatisse will drop to NU, and grandbull would drop to PU

The Domino Effect :O

NU low ladder, i beg of you to stop using muk and mantine.......Please....I feel bad for PU:[
I'm not complaining about Zapdos dropping, I'd be fine if it dropped. My problem is that Ununhexium keeps telling people to stop using Zapdos without giving any reason why it should drop. The only reason he makes these kinds of posts is because he really wants to use Zapdos in UU.

ffs NU get your low ladder scrubs to stop using Muk. It's complete trash and should drop to PU ASAP.

We're getting Gothitelle back, yay!
 
Is there a way to find out how often a pokemon is used with a certain move and certain spreads?

Right now im trying to figure out how often iron head skarmory is used with a spdef spread. It would be even more convenient if you combine the items.
 

Fusxfaranto

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Is there a way to find out how often a pokemon is used with a certain move and certain spreads?

Right now im trying to figure out how often iron head skarmory is used with a spdef spread. It would be even more convenient if you combine the items.
I don't think that's really possible, unfortunately. Currently, the only possible way of doing that would be running new stats on the monthly data, which aren't public, and even if they were, it'd probably take a pretty long time to download, let alone run the stats on. Even if someone put the effort into making some sort of on-demand query system for stats, I doubt it'd be able to run quickly enough to be publicly usable.
 

Meru

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Nah I'm not sure if Sylveon falling to UU would have that drastic of an effect on the tiers. It really wouldn't be that interesting of a dropdown, even though it is a good Pokemon. All it is is basically a better Florges with its Cleric set, and maybe the Specs set will be unique but not that interesting (though a new Mence+Hydra check would be really cool). It will for sure completely outclass Florges as a cleric (it was proven in early XY that Florges is completely and utterly outclassed by Sylveon), though the CM+Synthesis set may still allow Florges to hold on to some viability in UU since that's basically one thing that Florges can do that Sylveon can't (though at the same time, in a Sylveon UU, CM Florges would be the flower's only set). Even if Florges does fall to RU, I don't think it will be that impressive down there either, as again, the CM set is really the only thing that makes Florges particularly good in my opinion. It's really not that impressive as a cleric at all, the only reason it's a good cleric over Aromatisse in UU is because Mega Blastoise and Hydreigon are so damn common there. Otherwise, Aroma will actually be the one giving Florges competition as a cleric in RU, as beyond maybe Florges having so much bulk to stomach something like Exploud's Boomburst, Aroma is the superior cleric the majority of the time. It has more bulk where it counts (Fairy is better as a physically defensive type), has Aroma Veil which makes it immune to Taunt and Encore, and it has quite a bit more HP which make its Wishes considerably larger. Granbull and Aromatisse are also perfectly capable of coexisting in a same tier, they're both viable in UU, and Granbull is viable in RU as well.

So in short, even if Sylveon does somehow end up making Florges completely useless, it won't have much of an effect on Aroma and Granbull's tiers as Florges isn't really very superior to Aromatisse at all either (and tbh Aroma is a better cleric than Florg), and Granbull is distinguishable enough from the others that it'll probably do just fine. I guess Granbull might still end up dropping to PU if only because it kind of sucks in NU anyways, but whatever lol. I mean yeah Aroma's usage will drop some since Florges would be a new Fairy in there but yeah. Sure Florges would be good in RU because CM+Synthesis would be a neat win condition for bulkier teams but I don't think it will drop Aroma out of RU entirely...

Okay I think I've done a lot of rambling here...but yeah basically I don't think Sylveon falling would have that drastic an impact on the tiers, aside from merely dropping Florges down potentially, but CM+Synthesis might allow Florges to hold on. That being said, I would totally love to have Sylveon in UU, as that would finally give me a place to use the thing.
Well I think offensive Florges would actually be viable in RU, since it's 75 base speed is right above common wall breakers like Tyrantrum Exploud and Emboar. Specs and LO Synthesis would fill very unique niches as a Fairy-type wallbreaker. That alone would change up the tier quite a bit
 
Rises
Togekiss from BL to OU
Amoonguss from RU to OU

Drops
Sylveon from OU to UU
Conkeldurr from OU to UU
Primeape from NU to PU
Cryogonal from NU to PU
Bouffalant from NU to PU
Pawniard from NU to PU
Here are my thoughts:
Togekiss: Yeah, I could see this thing rising. Mainly because Klefki rose to OU in August. This thing is one hell of a troll btw.
Amoonguss: NO.
Sylveon: What's wrong with Sylveon? I know it's kinda weak, but it's a decent cleric and Pixilate Hyper Voice has really pissed me off a few times.
Conkeldurr: If this thing drops, then Machamp will definitely drop to RU. I don't know why Conk's OU in the first place...
Primeape, Cryogonal, Bouffalant: All are worth dropping. Muk should drop too, mostly because it's (literally) garbage.
Pawniard: Again, NO.

and now for my own predictions:
Gothitelle: either rise to OU or drop to PU
Muk: drop to PU
Trevenant: drop to NU
All of these are self-explanatory.
 
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Rises
Togekiss from BL to OU
Amoonguss from RU to OU

Drops
Sylveon from OU to UU
Conkeldurr from OU to UU
Primeape from NU to PU
Cryogonal from NU to PU
Bouffalant from NU to PU
Pawniard from NU to PU
I would also including the following
Rises
Gothitelle from NU to OU
Pinsir from NU to OU (If we decide not to tier megas and base forms separately)

Drops
Gorebyss from NU to PU


But for the most part, I wouldn't really say that this tier shift is going to be that interesting (Again, assuming we decide not to tier megas and base forms separately.) Although, PU has the potential to get a lot of stuff (I mean Jesus Christ the potential for 5 mons to drop is amazing), which is pretty good since it does discourage all of the PU players from spamming "NU y u no give us drops)
 
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